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Thread: Are these Argentine admixture percentages accurate?

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Yes, Brazil is very mixed both across different phenotypic groups (I wouldn't really call them "races", the classification is entirely based on subjective perception of looks) and also within each of those phenotypic groups, in individuals' genetic makeup. I think it is the true melting pot, because it did truly melt at least partly the original genetic and phenotypic makeup of the peoples that composed the Brazilian society. I see the USA (at least until the 1960s) as a sort of patchwork, but not melting pot like Brazil. No phenotypic group of Brazil is not mixed (on average) to relevant degrees, some of them even very much so. I'd say you can break it down a bit like this:

    Whites: ~80-85% European, ~5-10% African, ~5-10% Amerindian
    Pardos/morenos (brown/mixed/swarthy, translations vary): ~50-55% European, ~20-30% African, ~15-30% Amerindian
    Blacks: ~50-60% African, ~30-35% European, ~5-20% Amerindian
    Other groups (indigenous and East Asians): ~80-90% Amerindian (or East Asian), ~10-20% others

    White and black Brazilians are some of the most mixed in the world. You can see it in the looks of the majority of the Brazilian blacks: while they're about ~40-45% non-African, non-African admixture in African-Americans are ~20-25% non-African genetically.
    Quote Originally Posted by Regio X View Post
    Agreed.
    The Southern half of the state is way more "gaúcho", with very few exceptions, São Lourenço do Sul being one of them (this city has a good frequency of people with Pomeranian background, but they're not necessarily the majority anyway).

    That said, perhaps even the gaúchos proper may be different from each other. I have the impression that those from Pampas have more SSA contribution than those from the Campos de Cima da Serra and Missões, even if NA is the predominant non-Iberian ancestry in both. I may be mistaken though (regarding these regions being significantly different on this).
    As for SSA ancestry itself, I believe two important hotspots are Pelotas and the capital Porto Alegre, but obviously it shows up in many other areas. Santa Catarina must have less SSA contribution than Rio Grande do Sul.
    Perhaps the most important "cultural" item in Rio Grande do Sul (not exclusive, of course), important for ALL "ethnicities" in the state, is the "chimarrão", which is NA in origin. You may be German in ancestry, North Italian or whatever, chimarrão will likely be important for you. Generally speaking (obviously not all people use it). :)
    When it comes to Euro ancestry in South (or actually any ancestry), perhaps one way to think it is using "cities". You have, say, the "Iberian" city (gaúchos, generally Portuguese+NA+SSA in whatever proportions), the Italian, the German (also some fewer Polish and Ukrainian), the Italian mixed more with gaúchos (or vice-versa), the German mixed more with gaúchos (or vice-versa), the Italian mixed more with Germans, all mixed, and on and on. It's really interesting, because sometimes you travel just few kilometers and voilà, you're in a city with a completely different predominant ancestry.
    In some rare cases, you have internal divisions, such in Nova Petrópolis. Here, you have some districts with more bohemians (such in Linha Imperial) - probably mixed already with other kind of "Germans" -, in other you may have more Pomeranian, or Rennans etc. I remember to have read that the city had to be "descentralized", i.e., some of these Germans had to be separated from each other, since the beginning, due to rivalry (possibly related to religion) or something.
    The Human Development Index (IDH) - of Belo Horizonte is 0.810, which places the municipality in the Very High Human Development range (IDH between 0.800 and 1). The Human Development Index (IDH) - of Porto Alegre is 0.805, in 2010, which places this municipality in the Very High Human Development Index, also. Development range (IDH between 0.800 and 1). BH has a higher IDH than Porto Alegre. As mentioned, the BH’s Human Development Index is considered very high, according to data from the United Nations Development Program. According to data from the 2010 report, released in 2013, its value was 0.810, being the second largest in Minas Gerais, after Nova Lima (0.813). Therefore, the BH’s IDH is higher than that of Porto Alegre, capital of Rio Grande do Sul. The vast majority of whites in BH live in these places: “There are neighborhoods that have very high human development indexes in BH (equal to or greater than the indexes of some Scandinavian countries): Carmo / Sion (0.973): greater than Iceland - 0.968; Cruzeiro / Anchieta / Funcionários (0.970): greater than Iceland - 0.968; Grajau / Gutierrez (0.965): greater than Australia - 0.962; Belvedere / Mangabeiras / Comiteco (0.964): greater than Australia - 0.962; Serra / São Lucas (0.953): equal to Japan, Netherlands - 0.953”. The people who live in these neighborhoods have the phenotype equivalent to mine and I, in particular, do not believe they have more than 5% SSA. I do not believe that. They are the elite of the state.
    Come and do “a search in loco” in Belo Horizonte‘.

  2. #52
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    In some places in Brazil perhaps it was the way it used to be in Cuba? I've known a few "white" Cubans quite well, children and grandchildren of people who fled Castro's Cuba.

    They never suspected that they had any non-European ancestry; they only found out when they did one of the retail ancestry tests.

    In all of the ones I knew, most had a few percent SSA, and a few also had a few percent Amerindian, and carried Amerindian mtDna. The latter was the biggerr shock as the history books had said that the "natives" were exterminated. If I remember correctly, the Amerindian showed up in the eastern part of the island.

    The totals were never more than around 5-7%, and it certainly wasn't visible.

    In the case of Cuba, these people, who were indeed the "elite", all fled when their properties were confiscated. One of them returned for a visit, to the anger of his family and friends, and said from what he could see there were no "white" Cubans left. That entire part of Cuban history is gone.

    Many of the people who remain do carry European ancestry, of course.

    I suppose another example is the Afrikaners. The first settlers were men; they took mates from among the locals or the slaves, but some of the children of those unions then only admixed with full Europeans, and so the other ancestry was diluted.

    Coincidentally, there was a clip on my youtube feed yesterday about Sally Hemings, the slave "concubine" of President Thomas Jefferson. Historians and his white descendants have always denied it, but recent dna testing is pretty conclusive.

    This poor mulatto or quadroon girl gave birth to six or seven children, starting when she was just sixteen years old. Even more appalling, she was the half sister of his deceased wife and much older. He never treated them in a "fatherly" way, but she, and they, received "special treatment", and when they were 21, two of the children, a boy and a girl, were "allowed" and actually aided by him in "running away". They "passed" into the white community and their descendants are unknown.

    Two boys, Eston and Madison, remained with their mother, whom he never freed. She was freed after his death by Jefferson's daughter. He did free the two boys in his will. Madison chose to remain in the "colored" community and he has African American descendants today. Eston took the Jefferson name and claimed Thomas Jefferson as his father. He married another mostly white woman, and his descendants were part of the white community. The connection was a family legend but dna testing has proved the males carry Thomas Jefferson's specific yDna.

    There are no pictures of Sally Hemings or of Eston Hemings Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson's son, but this is his son Beverly.


    This is another of Eston's sons, John Wayles Jefferson, who became a rich and successful cotton broker.


    Clearly, 5% SSA doesn't "show".

    The whole thing disgusts me. I think he freed them but not her because be believed (the statement is found among his account books) that if a slave is an octoroon, or only one-eighth African, they perhaps might be considered "white" enough to be freed. I think he said something like one sixteenth or one thirty-secondth is "better". Don't quote me but it was something horrible like that.

    I know we shouldn't judge the people of the past by the standards of today, but by that time some people were already indeed appalled by such callous and immoral behavior, among them President John Adams and his wife Abigail, who fell out with Jefferson when they found out and never really spoke again.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Angela a good example
    of
    A white cuban
    Is andy garcia

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Garc%C3%ADa

    To me he looks full iberian
    Or full south italian...😉
    Auosomally he might carry some %
    Sub- sharan or some % amerindian
    But it is not visible in his phenotype
    Not for nothing they took him for godfather😉
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC7391/

    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Angela a good example
    of
    A white cuban
    Is andy garcia
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Garc%C3%ADa
    To me he looks full iberian
    Or full south italian...������
    Auosomally he might carry some %
    Sub- sharan or some % amerindian
    But it is not visible in his phenotype
    Not for nothing they took him for godfather������
    I agree that he looks completely Iberian, or at least Southern European. If you really look closely, at least when he got older, there's something not quite Italian about him, but when he was young he was indeed a good "fit" phenotypically imo.



    Desi Arnaz from I LOVE LUCY is another one.


    Gloria Estevan, on the other hand, who I'm sure never thought she had "minority ancestry" either, to me does show some hints of it.



    When she was "hot". God, I love 80s music, even when it's trashy. :)

    Gloria Estevan and the Miami Sound Machine...


    By the way, another one who was a good fit for a certain type of Italian in The Godfather was the Ashkenazi Jewish James Caan, who brilliantly played Sonny. He even got the walk, the mannerisms, everything right.



    Maybe overdone a bit, but good; maybe more Neapolitan than Sicilian, who in my experience can often be very, very, controlled.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    In some places in Brazil perhaps it was the way it used to be in Cuba? I've known a few "white" Cubans quite well, children and grandchildren of people who fled Castro's Cuba.

    They never suspected that they had any non-European ancestry; they only found out when they did one of the retail ancestry tests.

    In all of the ones I knew, most had a few percent SSA, and a few also had a few percent Amerindian, and carried Amerindian mtDna. The latter was the biggerr shock as the history books had said that the "natives" were exterminated. If I remember correctly, the Amerindian showed up in the eastern part of the island.

    The totals were never more than around 5-7%, and it certainly wasn't visible.

    In the case of Cuba, these people, who were indeed the "elite", all fled when their properties were confiscated. One of them returned for a visit, to the anger of his family and friends, and said from what he could see there were no "white" Cubans left. That entire part of Cuban history is gone.

    Many of the people who remain do carry European ancestry, of course.

    I suppose another example is the Afrikaners. The first settlers were men; they took mates from among the locals or the slaves, but some of the children of those unions then only admixed with full Europeans, and so the other ancestry was diluted.

    Coincidentally, there was a clip on my youtube feed yesterday about Sally Hemings, the slave "concubine" of President Thomas Jefferson. Historians and his white descendants have always denied it, but recent dna testing is pretty conclusive.

    This poor mulatto or quadroon girl gave birth to six or seven children, starting when she was just sixteen years old. Even more appalling, she was the half sister of his deceased wife and much older. He never treated them in a "fatherly" way, but she, and they, received "special treatment", and when they were 21, two of the children, a boy and a girl, were "allowed" and actually aided by him in "running away". They "passed" into the white community and their descendants are unknown.

    Two boys, Eston and Madison, remained with their mother, whom he never freed. She was freed after his death by Jefferson's daughter. He did free the two boys in his will. Madison chose to remain in the "colored" community and he has African American descendants today. Eston took the Jefferson name and claimed Thomas Jefferson as his father. He married another mostly white woman, and his descendants were part of the white community. The connection was a family legend but dna testing has proved the males carry Thomas Jefferson's specific yDna.

    There are no pictures of Sally Hemings or of Eston Hemings Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson's son, but this is his son Beverly.


    This is another of Eston's sons, John Wayles Jefferson, who became a rich and successful cotton broker.


    Clearly, 5% SSA doesn't "show".

    The whole thing disgusts me. I think he freed them but not her because be believed (the statement is found among his account books) that if a slave is an octoroon, or only one-eighth African, they perhaps might be considered "white" enough to be freed. I think he said something like one sixteenth or one thirty-secondth is "better". Don't quote me but it was something horrible like that.

    I know we shouldn't judge the people of the past by the standards of today, but by that time some people were already indeed appalled by such callous and immoral behavior, among them President John Adams and his wife Abigail, who fell out with Jefferson when they found out and never really spoke again.
    Interesting (and sad, too) examples, Angela.

    Yes, I think some parts of Brazill, mainly in the South and the southern portion of the Southeast (mainly São Paulo), were pretty similar to Cuba. In other parts of Brazil the so-called "miscigenation ideology" has become very deep-rooted, so I think most white people will acknowledge they have Amerindian an African ancestry, too, and sometimes even overestimate it (I have read about Brazilians who were kind of "underwhelmed" by the little exotic results of their DNA tests when it turned out that they were 95%> European and nothing else). But in the South and parts of São Paulo a lot of white people were under the impression they were almost "purely" European until DNA tests arrived, though they are still not nearly as popular as they've become in the USA (few companies are available in Brazil AFAIK). The branqueamentoear("whitening") policy of late 19th century and early 20th century Brazilian national and state governments (i.e. a eugenics-based policy to "improve tha racial stock" of Brazil by diluting Amerindian and African ancestry as much as possible through large-scale immigration and a strong encouragement to multi-generational white+non-white mixing) seems to have been not only much more successful, but also much more enduring in the people's mindset in the Southeast and especially in the South.

    I have seen some Southern Brazilians espouse a lot of quibbles against the autosomal DNA tests that indicate the region is "only" ~75% to ~87% (results vary) European in ancestry. Never mind that even in the "whitest" of all states, Santa Catarina, a full 1/5 of the population self-declares as non-white, and in the other southern states (including São Paulo, which is a sort of transition zone between Southeast and South) that proportion is even lower: about 20-25% in Rio Grande do Sul, 30% in Paraná and 40% in São Paulo. So, I think those results of already published autosomal studies must be pretty much accurate, even accounting for some small margin of error. In my experience I think ~5-15% non-European ancestry usually don't show up clearly in one's looks. A lot of visibly very European-like people may have that amount of African and Amerindian ancestry and never even know it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The whole thing disgusts me. I think he freed them but not her because be believed (the statement is found among his account books) that if a slave is an octoroon, or only one-eighth African, they perhaps might be considered "white" enough to be freed. I think he said something like one sixteenth or one thirty-secondth is "better". Don't quote me but it was something horrible like that.

    I know we shouldn't judge the people of the past by the standards of today, but by that time some people were already indeed appalled by such callous and immoral behavior, among them President John Adams and his wife Abigail, who fell out with Jefferson when they found out and never really spoke again.
    Wow I didn't know that part of the story. I had sometimes wondered why it was so horrible according to many Americans, considering that concubine relationships between slaves or former slaves and wealthier white man was once pretty common stuff in many parts of the Americas, but the details are much more complicated... I was under the impression he had freed Sally after some years, too, but he didn't, and the reason why he didn't is incredibly petty and prejudiced even for the standards of the early 19th century (by that time, there were already a lot of abolitionists, and even a racist and still even more slavery-based country like Brazil already had hundreds of thousands of black - indeed black or partly black-looking, not just having African ancestry - people freed by their former owners because of many non-racial reasons, including purely emotional/affectionate ones).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Wow I didn't know that part of the story. I had sometimes wondered why it was so horrible according to many Americans, considering that concubine relationships between slaves or former slaves and wealthier white man was once pretty common stuff in many parts of the Americas, but the details are much more complicated... I was under the impression he had freed Sally after some years, too, but he didn't, and the reason why he didn't is incredibly petty and prejudiced even for the standards of the early 19th century (by that time, there were already a lot of abolitionists, and even a racist and still even more slavery-based country like Brazil already had hundreds of thousands of black - indeed black or partly black-looking, not just having African ancestry - people freed by their former owners because of many non-racial reasons, including purely emotional/affectionate ones).
    The "Anglo-Saxon" attitude toward this cross racial sexual contact was very different from that in the Spanish, Portuguese and French colonies.

    In the northern and midwestern states the vast majority of people didn't have slaves, and given the Calvinism of religious beliefs about sexuality, they found the idea that southern slave owners had sexual congress with black women appalling on all sorts of levels.

    The rumors about Jefferson almost brought him down and put the government in turmoil.

    In the slave holding states of the south people obviously had to know it was going on. Why were these obviously mixed people in the population, after all.

    I've read a lot of accounts from the period both from white people and former or escaped slaves, and there was a sort of conspiracy of silence and almost pathological denial.

    In response to Abolitionist diatribes about the practice you'll be amused to hear that one common response was to blame it on the sailors on the slave ships, often Spanish and Portuguese. When the babies were pointed out it was usually blamed on the often Irish overseers, anything rather than admit that English men were the fathers.

    Both things undoubtedly happened, but it was also the slave owners themselves. Jefferson's father in law fathered six children on a mulatto woman, Elizabeth Hemings, never freed any of them, and on his death this whole family was bequeathed to his daughter Martha Wayles and ended up on Jefferson's Monticello, waiting on and working for their half sister and her family.

    People went to great lengths to hide it, and it was never spoken of in "white" society. Jefferson wasn't unusual in that regard. The pretense was that Sally was just the housekeeper, with the added duty of looking after Jefferson's room and clothing. Convenient, that. Only after rather recent restorations of Monticello was it discovered that there was a hidden staircase from Sally's downstairs room into the President's bedchamber. Even more recently a "secret bedroom" with no windows was discovered where it is suspected Sally Hemings gave birth to her children.

    The closest Jefferson's legitimate children ever got to acknowledging a genetic relationship was to blame it on a young nephew who was an alcoholic and ne'er-do-well who died young. They had to acknowledge some sort of relationship because there were so many accounts by northern visitors to Monticello of all these white red-haired slaves they'd seen.

    French-Spanish New Orleans was different. They developed a whole system called "placage" where contracts were signed between white men and women of color, providing for them economically, and any children of the union, as well as freeing them in some situations. Of course, I'm sure there was also "extra-legal" contact as well, with violence and coercion involved, but no matter how some revisionist historians want to make the white slave owners as "bad" as possible there are too many accounts from the women themselves to the practice to deny it.

    The French novelist Alexandre Dumas, one of my favorites, was the child of such a union.



    "Plaçage was a recognized extralegal system in French and Spanish slave colonies of North America (including the Caribbean) by which ethnic European men entered into civil unions with non-Europeans of African, Native American and mixed-race descent. The term comes from the French placer meaning "to place with". The women were not legally recognized as wives but were known as placées; their relationships were recognized among the free people of color as mariages de la main gauche or left-handed marriages. They became institutionalized with contracts or negotiations that settled property on the woman and her children and, in some cases, gave them freedom if they were enslaved. The system flourished throughout the French and Spanish colonial periods, reaching its zenith during the latter, between 1769 and 1803.It was widely practiced in New Orleans, where planter society had created enough wealth to support the system.[clarification needed] It also took place in the Latin-influenced cities of Natchez and Biloxi, Mississippi; Mobile, Alabama; St. Augustine and Pensacola, Florida;[1] as well as Saint-Domingue (now the Republic of Haiti). Plaçage became associated with New Orleans as part of its cosmopolitan society."


    The whole thing horrified the "Yankees" when they took over; they viewed it as institutionalized cross racial prostitution.

    Latins have a different attitude clearly. I saw it in histories of the second world war as well, with the attitude of the Italian colonial governments in places like Eritrea and Somalia.

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    Hi all,

    Sorry if I am bringing up and old thread, but I am new here and find the discussion interesting as I am an Argentine (although I currently live in NYC). Regarding "Argentine whiteness", I agree that it is often exaggerated and that some of the reasons already brought up here play a role. Basically, that, as is common in LATAM, anyone looking white would be considered white and there was historically (and to some extent there still is) some prestige attached to being white. Also, most foreigners usually visit Buenos Aires and keep to upper and midddle class neighborhoods (Recoleta, Palermo, etc).

    However, I also think that it should be taken into account that, much like what has and is happening in the US, the demographic composition of Argentina has changed considerably during the last 5o or 60 years. Mainly because of the following factors:

    1) Provinces where people usually have higher amerindian admixture have historically had much higher birth rates than Buenos Aires, Santa Fe or other provinces with higher european populations.

    2) From the 60s onwards, European immgration was largely replaced by immigration from neighboring countries (mainly Bolivia, Peru, Chile and Paraguay, which of course have much higher amerindian populations). For example, today there are about 550k Parguayans and 350k bolivians living in Argentina (the country has approx. 44 million inhabitants). People of paraguayan or bolivian descent are of course many more, as anyone born in Argentina automaticallly becomes Argentinian because of Ius Soli rules.

    3) Many middle and upper-middle class Argentines have been steadily living the country in recent decades for economic reasons (also, most Argentines who travel and visit foreign countries are usually upper middle class, which may also contribute to the perception of Argentines being white).

    That said, If DNA tests would have been available in the 1940s I have no doubt that european admixture would have been considerably higher. So, the stereotype of Argentina being whiter than it is may be based on what Argentina used to look like. I tried to post a picture with percentages of foreign born population in Argentina as per the 1914 census but I was not allowed to do it.

    I think the same can be said about the US. When is was little I had the stereotypical image of Americans being blond gringos. That is certainly not what I see when I walk the streets today. I can safely say that Buenos Aires is much whiter than NYC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    See the wonderful Mercedes Sosa

    Maradona's parents where orginally from the Province of Corrientes and Mercedes Sosa came from Tucuman. Both provinces with significant amerindian admixture. None of them, of course, were considered white in Argentina (the great Mercedes Sosa was affectionately nicknamed "La Negra").

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    These Argentines are very handsome and also very porteños, but I think the probability of they having not Amerindian ancestry is very low, like in Southeast ou South of Brazil.
    People of full Euopean descent are not rare in Argentina at all (although they are of course not the majority). I have plenty of friends whose grandparents were all born in Europe. In my case, 3 of my grandparents were not only of european descent but born in Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murlock View Post
    Maradona's parents where orginally from the Province of Corrientes and Mercedes Sosa came from Tucuman. Both provinces with significant amerindian admixture. None of them, of course, were considered white in Argentina (the great Mercedes Sosa was affectionately nicknamed "La Negra").

    Mardonna was 1/ 4 croatian (maternal grandmother)
    Doesn't show in his features but thats the magic of dna

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_Argentines

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    It certainly did not. His daughter Dalma is much lighter than him. Maybe the croatian genes skipped a generation? haha.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    As for Ricardo Darin, is it something across the eye area? Everything else can be seen in lots of places in Europe. Yet I feel silly saying it because the shape of them is not really different. Can it be a certain "look" in them?

    Maybe I'm being too fanciful.
    Darin is Italian and Lebanese. No amerindian as far as I know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murlock View Post
    Darin is Italian and Lebanese. No amerindian as far as I know.
    I just knew he wasn't totally European looking and certainly didn't look like someone from the Veneto, and not thinking of Middle Eastern ancestry, I put the difference down to Amerindian perhaps.


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    On June 9, 2021, Alberto Fernández made a racist joke at a press conference alongside Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez at the Casa Rosada. “Mexicans came out of the Indians, Brazilians came out of the jungle, but we Argentines arrived in boats. And they were boats that came from Europe,” Fernández told Sánchez, in an attempt to describe the Argentines as “Europeans from Latin America”. Fernandez also erroneously attributed the quote to the Mexican poet, essayist and diplomat Octavio Paz (1914-1998), when it was about lyrics by Argentine rocker Litto Nebbia. Faced with the negative repercussion of his racist speech, Alberto Fernández went to social media on the same day to apologize.

    Just as Bolsonaro submits the Brazilians to ridicule in front of the world, this self-image that the Argentine’s President and the Argentines created for themselves, that has the intent of to hide part of their history that, for them, are unwanted ,and, above all, demonstrates ignorance of the real genetic makeup of country, ends to submit them to ridicule in front the world too. I recommend Mr. Alberto Fernandez run an autosomal DNA test. As we know and I think that they know too, there are several companies on the market that does these tests and that charge honest prices, such as Ancestry, 23andMe, MyHeritage, FamilyTreeDNA. I think Fernandez will be surprised by how much of his ancestry did not come on the boats. The same advice applies to all Argentines who think they are different from their neighbors in Latin America, including the Porteños.

  17. #67
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Hello, only seeing the physical appaerance of argentines, its easy for an Iberian to see many of them are not pure europeans. Overall, the poorer part of the argentine society its notorious most of them are from mixed origin.

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    Regular Member Duarte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidtab View Post
    Hello, only seeing the physical appaerance of argentines, it�s easy for an Iberian to see many of them are not pure europeans. Overall, the poorer part of the argentine society it�s notorious most of them are from mixed origin.
    Hi

  19. #69
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    To me both white brazilians
    Look european even if they have some
    African or amerindian admixture
    In most cases it doesnt show in there facial features
    And they look european
    Same goes for white argentinians
    I fail to see forgein admixture for example
    Battistuta
    Look european to me ...
    But i am not an expert on anthropology..

    P.s
    So white brazilans came from europe
    Not the jungle

  20. #70
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    I happen to have some Italian-Argentinian relatives. Some have only Italian ancestors but some married "native" Argentinians. Of those, and they have tested, they all have Amerindian mtDna.

    It doesn't mean they look Amerindian, but there are some Argentinians where you can definitely see it. It all depends on the particular mix.

    Nacho Figueras, a famous Argentinian Polo player who is also a model for Ralph Lauren's "Polo" line shows, to me, a bit of that admixture. No less handsome for it. :)






  21. #71
    Regular Member italouruguayan's Avatar
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    What Alberto Fernandez said is surprising because he belongs to a party, and heads a government, which has brought "political correction" almost to the limit of ridiculousness. However, it is also true that these ideas are deeply rooted in the Argentine mentality.The idea has some foundations: Argentina, like Uruguay and southern Brazil, is one of the countries that received the most European immigration at the end of the 19th century. and early twentieth century. And also, at least until the 1940s, Argentina was constantly on the list of 10 richest countries in the world. From there came the idea of ​​rich white Argentina, surrounded by poor and non-white neighbors. And from there, a certain superiority complex. But times change, Argentina is getting poorer, and people of purely European origin, living mainly in Buenos Aires and other large cities, have been mixing with people from the interior, with an important Amerindian component, often referred to as " cabecitas negras (little black heads.)"

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