What does "Iranian related ancestry" mean?

[Regio X]

What do we know about facial features of Iranian Neolithic people?

Face of Tehran’s 7 millennia old woman reconstructed

I don't know why but I think she doesn't look Iranians!

No idea. Anyway, some modern Baloch seem to be among the richest in Iran Meso ancestry nowadays. I found 74% for sample HGDP00086 from Pakistan in Vahaduo. However, the Baloch HGDP00098 scores much less, so it seems to be some variation among Balochi. Makrani also score well, but there're variations among them too.
Both Balochi and Makrani also score in Natufian (especially the latter), ASI, AHG etc. When I use modern Andamanese as source instead modern Kannadi, the Iran Meso scores get higher.

Some images: https://www.google.com/search?q=balochi+pakistan&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X

 

[Anfänger]

No idea. Anyway, some modern Baloch seem to be among the richest in Iran Meso ancestry nowadays. I found 74% for sample HGDP00086 from Pakistan in Vahaduo. However, the Baloch HGDP00098 scores much less, so it seems to be some variation among Balochi. Makrani also score well, but there're variations among them too.
Both Balochi and Makrani also score in Natufian (especially the latter), ASI, AHG etc. Little of SSA also may be found in some samples.

Some images: https://www.google.com/search?q=balochi+pakistan&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X

Scrolling to the pictures you will find some "Shedis", descandants of SSA slaves but it is kinda obvious than you look into their faces. I think this picture represents Balochi the best:


It is very much a Afghani-like look even if Afghans have different autosomal DNA. The woman on the left kinda looks like the facial reconstruction from 5000BC Tehran.

 

[Regio X]

Scrolling to the pictures you will find some "Shedis", descandants of SSA slaves but it is kinda obvious than you look into their faces. I think this picture represents Balochi the best:
View attachment 12272

It very much a Afghani-like look even if Afghans have different autosomal DNA. The woman on the left kinda looks like the facial reconstruction from 5000BC Tehran.

I found some SSA (Kenya) just in few samples, and at a relatively low %, anyway, it's there, as well as Dravidian-like ancestry, among others.

 

[Anfänger]

I found some SSA (Kenya) just in few samples, and at a relatively low %, anyway, it's there, as well as Dravidian-like ancestry, among others.

Yes it is very likely that they have minor SSA because Sheedis live among Balochi and Makrani but sometimes you will find pictures of Sheedis labeled as Balochi. Brahui also score high in Iran_Meso and they are Dravidian speakers, so Dravidian-like ancestry is no surprise.

 

[Regio X]

This is what I get using modern North Kannadi. (North Kannadi themselves must have some Iran Neo-like ancestry.)

When I exclude North Kannadi as source, the model prefers Laos Hoabinhian (~8k years old).

 

[Ygorcs]

This is what I get using modern North Kannadi. (North Kannadi themselves must have some Iran Neo-like ancestry.)
When I exclude North Kannadi as source, the model prefers Laos Hoabinhian (~8k years old).

I think the best proxy for AASI are the Pulliyar and the Paniya, Adivasi tribes/Sheduled tribes. I actually decided to make a Simulated AASI based on what I read in a genetic study and on my own results in G25, which indicate the Paniya have at most something like ~30% Iran_N. So, I created a hypothetical simulation of what the unmixed AASI coordinates must've been like, which also correlates totally well with AASI-IVC-Iran-Steppe "star-like" South Asian cline.

 

[Ygorcs]

This is what I get. Not very different AASI (11.5%), but a bit lower, and noticeable African admixture in some Makrani, Balochi and Brahui individuals, certainly due to admixture with the descendants of African slaves that can be still visibly discerned from the native peoples.

Target

Distance

CHN_Upper_Yellow_River_LN​ ​ ​

Dinka​ ​ ​

IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N​ ​ ​

KEN_Pastoral_N​ ​ ​

Levant_Natufian​ ​ ​

MNG_Hovsgol_BA​ ​ ​

RUS_Karelia_HG​ ​ ​

RUS_Khvalynsk_En​ ​ ​

RUS_Progress_En​ ​ ​

Simulated_AASI​ ​ ​

TUR_Barcin_N​ ​ ​

TZA_Pemba_600BP​ ​ ​

WHG​ ​ ​

Makrani:HGDP00153

0.02082472

0.0​ ​ ​

2.4​ ​ ​

55.4​ ​ ​

0.2​ ​ ​

3.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

4.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

5.4​ ​ ​

11.0​ ​ ​

15.0​ ​ ​

2.4​ ​ ​

0.4​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00078

0.02807220

0.4​ ​ ​

2.4​ ​ ​

54.0​ ​ ​

2.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

17.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

8.0​ ​ ​

15.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00039

0.03344871

0.0​ ​ ​

2.0​ ​ ​

48.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

2.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

14.2​ ​ ​

21.2​ ​ ​

11.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.2​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00047

0.02259496

0.0​ ​ ​

1.8​ ​ ​

52.6​ ​ ​

2.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.6​ ​ ​

10.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

13.0​ ​ ​

19.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Makrani:HGDP00157

0.02118001

0.0​ ​ ​

1.6​ ​ ​

63.0​ ​ ​

0.4​ ​ ​

2.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

8.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

8.0​ ​ ​

15.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00098

0.02846283

0.0​ ​ ​

1.0​ ​ ​

49.6​ ​ ​

0.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

18.0​ ​ ​

17.0​ ​ ​

14.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00021

0.02572855

0.0​ ​ ​

0.6​ ​ ​

63.4​ ​ ​

0.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

13.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

7.6​ ​ ​

14.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Makrani:HGDP00145

0.01822366

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

58.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

5.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

8.6​ ​ ​

1.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

10.2​ ​ ​

12.8​ ​ ​

2.2​ ​ ​

1.4​ ​ ​

Makrani:HGDP00154

0.02430365

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

65.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

6.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

9.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

7.8​ ​ ​

10.0​ ​ ​

0.4​ ​ ​

1.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00049

0.02526147

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

59.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

14.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

12.6​ ​ ​

13.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00031

0.03103308

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

57.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.8​ ​ ​

13.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

14.8​ ​ ​

13.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Makrani:HGDP00155

0.02320471

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

61.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

2.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

4.8​ ​ ​

7.8​ ​ ​

1.0​ ​ ​

7.0​ ​ ​

15.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00003

0.02337594

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

59.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

6.0​ ​ ​

6.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

11.8​ ​ ​

16.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00033

0.02679863

0.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

58.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

1.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

8.4​ ​ ​

5.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

11.2​ ​ ​

15.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00025

0.02562345

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

58.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

9.8​ ​ ​

4.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

12.2​ ​ ​

15.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00001

0.02415791

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

59.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

2.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

9.8​ ​ ​

3.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

13.0​ ​ ​

12.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00088

0.02602901

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

57.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

2.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

9.4​ ​ ​

1.6​ ​ ​

4.4​ ​ ​

10.2​ ​ ​

14.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00017

0.02448327

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

61.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

10.8​ ​ ​

0.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

10.8​ ​ ​

16.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00096

0.02389897

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

57.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

1.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

6.2​ ​ ​

0.6​ ​ ​

9.4​ ​ ​

14.8​ ​ ​

10.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00066

0.03045485

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

61.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

13.8​ ​ ​

0.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

9.6​ ​ ​

15.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00005

0.02859443

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

61.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.4​ ​ ​

1.4​ ​ ​

12.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

12.4​ ​ ​

12.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00007

0.03397324

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

60.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

11.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

12.6​ ​ ​

15.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00009

0.02728970

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

59.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

1.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

12.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

11.6​ ​ ​

15.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00011

0.02372039

0.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

60.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

10.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

2.8​ ​ ​

11.0​ ​ ​

14.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00015

0.03849098

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

60.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

2.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

7.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

5.6​ ​ ​

11.2​ ​ ​

13.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00023

0.02352445

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

63.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.6​ ​ ​

9.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

10.6​ ​ ​

15.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

1.2​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00035

0.03170946

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

62.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

1.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

8.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

2.4​ ​ ​

14.6​ ​ ​

11.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00037

0.02821418

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

57.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

13.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

12.2​ ​ ​

16.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.4​ ​ ​

Brahui:HGDP00045

0.03088555

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

63.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

1.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

14.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

9.4​ ​ ​

11.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Makrani:HGDP00137

0.02268164

0.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

63.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

1.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

8.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

8.0​ ​ ​

17.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

1.0​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00054

0.02969200

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

57.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

9.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

6.2​ ​ ​

9.4​ ​ ​

17.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00062

0.02317561

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

60.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

6.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

4.8​ ​ ​

10.6​ ​ ​

18.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00072

0.02828621

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

58.6​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

13.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

13.2​ ​ ​

14.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00074

0.03754115

1.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

62.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

1.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

7.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

9.4​ ​ ​

16.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

2.2​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00080

0.02592948

0.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

61.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

11.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

9.2​ ​ ​

17.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00086

0.03912128

0.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

67.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

11.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

7.0​ ​ ​

12.4​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

1.8​ ​ ​

Balochi:HGDP00090

0.02459541

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

54.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

5.8​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

9.2​ ​ ​

20.0​ ​ ​

10.2​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

0.0​ ​ ​

Average

0.02715097

0.1​ ​ ​

0.3​ ​ ​

59.3​ ​ ​

0.2​ ​ ​

1.0​ ​ ​

0.1​ ​ ​

8.1​ ​ ​

2.3​ ​ ​

2.3​ ​ ​

11.5​ ​ ​

14.4​ ​ ​

0.1​ ​ ​

0.3​ ​ ​

 

[Regio X]

I think the best proxy for AASI are the Pulliyar and the Paniya, Adivasi tribes/Sheduled tribes. I actually decided to make a Simulated AASI based on what I read in a genetic study and on my own results in G25, which indicate the Paniya have at most something like ~30% Iran_N. So, I created a hypothetical simulation of what the unmixed AASI coordinates must've been like, which also correlates totally well with AASI-IVC-Iran-Steppe "star-like" South Asian cline.

Thanks, Ygor. One of my goals was isolating these major old components the maximum as possible. That's also why I used Karelia and CHG rather than Steppe, AHG rather than Barcin etc. Of course, the model will result in higher distances, but...
One of the problems was the ASI, since I haven't found a better proxy. Thanks again for the tip. I'll "explore" it.
I've done so far Natufians, Iran Meso and AHG. It'll be interesting to find the modern pops in whom the other major components peak, just for fun.

 

[Ygorcs]

Thanks, Ygor. One of my goals was isolating these major old components the maximum as possible. That's also why I used Karelia and CHG rather than Steppe, AHG rather than Barcin etc. Of course, the model will result in higher distances, but...
One of the problems was the ASI, since I haven't found a better proxy. Thanks again for the tip. I'll "explore" it.
I've done so far Natufians, Iran Meso and AHG. It'll be interesting to find the modern pops in whom the other major components peak, just for fun.

Then use my Simulated_AASI hypothetical sample if you wish, but do so with caution, okay? Have fun lol

Simulated_AASI,-0.00443,-0.214,-0.19242,0.15391,-0.02794,0.05104,-0.01,0.02145,0.11636,0.07258,0.00858,-0.00254,-0.00344,0.02049,-0.03471,-0.04118,0.01541,-0.00175,-0.00513,0.04368,0.00902,0.02244,-0.01246,0.01302,-0.01083

CLOSEST ANCIENT SAMPLES (Indeed, it's distantly Andamanese/Hoabinhian-like and interestingly not that dramatically distant from Tianyuan)

Distance to:	Simulated_AASI
0.13348406	IND_Roopkund_A:I6946
0.14030680	IND_Roopkund_A:I6942
0.15003274	IND_Roopkund_A:I6941
0.15170453	IND_Great_Andamanese_100BP:Andaman
0.15899286	LAO_Hoabinhian:La368
0.17124483	IND_Roopkund_A:I2868
0.17191794	IND_Roopkund_A:I3342
0.17669266	PAK_Saidu_Sharif_H_o:I7722
0.17679988	IND_Roopkund_A:I7035
0.18419521	IND_Roopkund_A:I7036
0.20234293	IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I8728
0.20765707	IND_Roopkund_A:I3343
0.20933620	IND_Roopkund_A:I6944
0.21520690	CHN_Tianyuan:TY
0.22861533	RUS_Ust_Ishim:Ust_Ishim
0.25739033	IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I11459
0.25884578	IND_Roopkund_A:I3352
0.26062743	IND_Roopkund_A:I3346
0.26783036	PAK_Katelai_IA:I12472
0.26821105	PAK_Loebanr_IA:I12981
0.26913753	PAK_Aligrama_H:I8245
0.26916284	PAK_Katelai_IA:I12470
0.26931225	IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I11456
0.27052615	PAK_Katelai_LBA:614_Oss
0.27112390	PAK_Katelai_IA:I12460

CLOSEST MODERN SAMPLES

Distance to:	Simulated_AASI
0.05575325	PaniyaY-17
0.05656139	PaniyaY-14
0.05868214	PaniyaNYD9
0.05884926	Gond:GD_01_23
0.05887544	PaniyaY-18
0.05940322	PaniyaNYD3
0.06060003	PaniyaY-15
0.06119304	PaniyaY-23
0.06162210	PaniyaY-20
0.06265406	PaniyaY-19
0.06366269	PaniyaY-6
0.06408060	PaniyaY-12
0.06422763	PaniyaY-1
0.06430043	PaniyaY-5
0.06436350	Gond:GD_01_05
0.06584087	PaniyaY-22
0.06810796	Gond:GD_01_24
0.06816220	PaniyaY-9
0.06861854	PaniyaY-21
0.07022929	Birhor:BIR_21
0.07031083	Asur:ASUR350
0.07032854	Birhor:Birhor1
0.07084663	Santhal:SA-1-4
0.07096826	Santhal:SA-1-15
0.07103716	Santhal:SA-1-13
0.07150691	Santhal:SA-1-6
0.07154823	Santhal:G22
0.07277116	Santhal:SA-1-8
0.07282567	Santhal:SA-1-19
0.07312236	Korwa:KO-08

 

[Shahmiri]

No idea. Anyway, some modern Baloch seem to be among the richest in Iran Meso ancestry nowadays. I found 74% for sample HGDP00086 from Pakistan in Vahaduo. However, the Baloch HGDP00098 scores much less, so it seems to be some variation among Balochi. Makrani also score well, but there're variations among them too.
Both Balochi and Makrani also score in Natufian (especially the latter), ASI, AHG etc. When I use modern Andamanese as source instead modern Kannadi, the Iran Meso scores get higher.

Some images: https://www.google.com/search?q=balochi+pakistan&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X

This is a woman from Shahr-e Sukhteh in Baluchistan (2850 BC), built by Maziar Ashrafi Bonab: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maziar_Ashrafian_Bonab

And Elamite man from 1200 BC:

 

[Shahmiri]

According to this weblog: http://artiyas1986.mihanblog.com/extrapage/1218 Shahr-e Sukhteh girl is Indo-European.
Iran:

North Europe:

Some Iranian and American actors:

 

[Regio X]

Then use my Simulated_AASI hypothetical sample if you wish, but do so with caution, okay? Have fun lol

Simulated_AASI,-0.00443,-0.214,-0.19242,0.15391,-0.02794,0.05104,-0.01,0.02145,0.11636,0.07258,0.00858,-0.00254,-0.00344,0.02049,-0.03471,-0.04118,0.01541,-0.00175,-0.00513,0.04368,0.00902,0.02244,-0.01246,0.01302,-0.01083

CLOSEST ANCIENT SAMPLES (Indeed, it's distantly Andamanese/Hoabinhian-like and interestingly not that dramatically distant from Tianyuan)

Distance to:	Simulated_AASI
0.13348406	IND_Roopkund_A:I6946
0.14030680	IND_Roopkund_A:I6942
0.15003274	IND_Roopkund_A:I6941
0.15170453	IND_Great_Andamanese_100BP:Andaman
0.15899286	LAO_Hoabinhian:La368
0.17124483	IND_Roopkund_A:I2868
0.17191794	IND_Roopkund_A:I3342
0.17669266	PAK_Saidu_Sharif_H_o:I7722
0.17679988	IND_Roopkund_A:I7035
0.18419521	IND_Roopkund_A:I7036
0.20234293	IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I8728
0.20765707	IND_Roopkund_A:I3343
0.20933620	IND_Roopkund_A:I6944
0.21520690	CHN_Tianyuan:TY
0.22861533	RUS_Ust_Ishim:Ust_Ishim
0.25739033	IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I11459
0.25884578	IND_Roopkund_A:I3352
0.26062743	IND_Roopkund_A:I3346
0.26783036	PAK_Katelai_IA:I12472
0.26821105	PAK_Loebanr_IA:I12981
0.26913753	PAK_Aligrama_H:I8245
0.26916284	PAK_Katelai_IA:I12470
0.26931225	IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I11456
0.27052615	PAK_Katelai_LBA:614_Oss
0.27112390	PAK_Katelai_IA:I12460

CLOSEST MODERN SAMPLES

Distance to:	Simulated_AASI
0.05575325	PaniyaY-17
0.05656139	PaniyaY-14
0.05868214	PaniyaNYD9
0.05884926	Gond:GD_01_23
0.05887544	PaniyaY-18
0.05940322	PaniyaNYD3
0.06060003	PaniyaY-15
0.06119304	PaniyaY-23
0.06162210	PaniyaY-20
0.06265406	PaniyaY-19
0.06366269	PaniyaY-6
0.06408060	PaniyaY-12
0.06422763	PaniyaY-1
0.06430043	PaniyaY-5
0.06436350	Gond:GD_01_05
0.06584087	PaniyaY-22
0.06810796	Gond:GD_01_24
0.06816220	PaniyaY-9
0.06861854	PaniyaY-21
0.07022929	Birhor:BIR_21
0.07031083	Asur:ASUR350
0.07032854	Birhor:Birhor1
0.07084663	Santhal:SA-1-4
0.07096826	Santhal:SA-1-15
0.07103716	Santhal:SA-1-13
0.07150691	Santhal:SA-1-6
0.07154823	Santhal:G22
0.07277116	Santhal:SA-1-8
0.07282567	Santhal:SA-1-19
0.07312236	Korwa:KO-08

Thanks. Will try it.
I was imagining a "pure" ASI would resemble an Andamanese in phenotype, but I may be wrong.

 

[Ygorcs]

Thanks. Will try it.
I was imagining a "pure" ASI would resemble an Andamanese in phenotype, but I may be wrong.

I doubt it... I think they were related to the Andamanese, but only distantly so, so there may have been sufficient phenotypic differences to make them pretty distinguishable. I also think Indians would have far more woolly or very curly hair than they do considering how much AASI most of them have, especially Dravidians and Northeastern Indians. In my opinion, they look pretty much like the Paniya. In my opinion they're a bit more Australian Aboriginal-like instead of Andamanese-like in looks, but more gracile and with much finer facial features.

 

[Ygorcs]

According to this weblog: http://artiyas1986.mihanblog.com/extrapage/1218 Shahr-e Sukhteh girl is Indo-European.
Iran:

Bronze Age Shahr-i-Sokhta? Hardly, it's basically Eastern Neolithic Iranian, very different from virtually any other known ancient Indo-European genetic makeup. Based on what evidences does it claim that? And what is the scientific credibility of that weblog?

 

[MOESAN]

Migration and invasion are two very different things, I certainly don't believe that in the Bronze Age some people from Iran invaded and conquered Greece and Italy but they migrated, it is possible that they were forced to migrate and some other people occupied their land.

The most important point is that it is "Iranian related ancestry", not "Anatolian related ancestry" or "Steppe related ancestry" and I don't know why you want to read it another thing, one thing is certainly true and that it is, unlike Mesopotamia, Egypt, ..., in the 3rd, 2nd and 1st millennium BC different people lived in Iran, for example we read about Parhasi (Marhasi) in the east of Elam just in the 3rd millennium BC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marhasi), Sumerian, Akkadian and Elmaite sources say nothing about it in the 2nd millennium, in fact another people live in this region in this period, but Strabo mentions the people of Parrhasii in the northeast of Iran, near to Mukana (Mugan plain) in the southeast Caspian region: http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Strabo/11G*.html and then we see Parrhasia, form ancient Greek πᾶς (pâs, “all, every”) +‎ ῥῆσις (rhêsis, “speech”) +‎ -ῐ́ᾱ (-íā), as ancient region in south Arcadia, Greece: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrhasia_(Arcadia)

I like our differenciation of 'migration' and 'invasion'. The question is the lack of mention in times of writings in Near-East, of so a migration or invasion. If a "pure" Iran neol-like pop of some importance had crossed lands, they would have been Anatolia or Levant, and mentioned somewhere sometime. Even by sea, it required crossing lands before, or to do a very big deviation (to get around Africa?). the link between greek Parrhasia and the Parrhasii is not so clear, the Parrhasii people were mentioned before by other forms and the greek could contain a 'pas' element, not 'par'. Even if correct, the question of crossing lands stays still.

 

[Shahmiri]

Bronze Age Shahr-i-Sokhta? Hardly, it's basically Eastern Neolithic Iranian, very different from virtually any other known ancient Indo-European genetic makeup. Based on what evidences does it claim that? And what is the scientific credibility of that weblog?

I also want to know about the scientific credibility of this weblog, I actually see some racist elements and some lies in it, for example Darius the Great has clearly not black hair in the Darius Vase.
But about Shahr-e Sukhteh, it dates back to 2850 BC, is it certain that western and eastern Iranians were completely different people even in this period?
Is there any research about facial features of original Indo-Europeans?

 

[Shahmiri]

I like our differenciation of 'migration' and 'invasion'. The question is the lack of mention in times of writings in Near-East, of so a migration or invasion. If a "pure" Iran neol-like pop of some importance had crossed lands, they would have been Anatolia or Levant, and mentioned somewhere sometime. Even by sea, it required crossing lands before, or to do a very big deviation (to get around Africa?). the link between greek Parrhasia and the Parrhasii is not so clear, the Parrhasii people were mentioned before by other forms and the greek could contain a 'pas' element, not 'par'. Even if correct, the question of crossing lands stays still.

Ancient Greek sources actually mention a migration from Elam to the west Anatolia (Troy) in the story of Tithonus and Memnon and building the city of Susa, Herodotus actually calls Susa "the city of Memnon", it is possible that the same people migrated to Mediterranean islands.

 

[Angela]

Just what we need: more myths from ancient authors with absolutely no shred of proof to support them.

I've let this thread go on and on with all sorts of illogical, data less posts littering it, but I'm beginning to lose my patience. We have a reputation to maintain here.

I've been asked to ban this user, but as I explained we don't ban members for their opinions, even if they are contrary to the mainstream view. However, neither can we allow nonsense to be posted.

Post actual data and logical arguments flowing from it or I'm going to have to close the thread. I'd also recommend not responding to obviously absurd claims. People get tired of talking into the wind and go away.

 

[ihype02]

Just what we need: more myths from ancient authors with absolutely no shred of proof to support them.

I've let this thread go on and on with all sorts of illogical, data less posts littering it, but I'm beginning to lose my patience. We have a reputation to maintain here.

I've been asked to ban this user, but as I explained we don't ban members for their opinions, even if they are contrary to the mainstream view. However, neither can we allow nonsense to be posted.

Post actual data and logical arguments flowing from it or I'm going to have to close the thread. I'd also recommend not responding to obviously absurd claims. People get tired of talking into the wind and go away.

It's so interesting that medieval authors have turned out to be way more accurate than the ancient ones, when it was usually considered otherwise.

 

[Angela]

It's so interesting that medieval authors have turned out to be way more accurate than the ancient ones, when it was usually considered otherwise.

Well, it depended on the person and whether that person was just an amateur "historian" or an archaeologist with a specialty in the topic.

For example, the mainstream opinion among Etruscologists was that Herodotus was incorrect, because there was absolutely no sign of any new people arriving or of conflict or turnover whatsoever, as I tried to explain umpteen times.

Another thing that happens is that amateurs, including the 19th century so called "historians", pick the ancient who supports their own preferred explanation of history. There were other ancient authors who thought Herodotus was completely wrong, for example, but some people preferred to ignore them.

Personally, having read Herodotus on North Africa, it was always amazing to me that people could take it seriously. It's obviously second and third hand myth. Great, entertaining writing, but not "history", per se. If he was right about anything it was just an accident, because he had no first hand knowledge of any of it.