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Thread: R1a language before Proto-IE?

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    R1a language before Proto-IE?

    R1a spoke not Proto-IE originally, but they Proto-IEized by R1b people.

    What was the original language of R1a people? I think original languages of R1a are Para-Proto-IE.

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    R1b is Euskera (Bashkir/Basque) haplogroup and R1a is Indo-Iranian haplogroup.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmiri View Post
    R1b is Euskera (Bashkir/Basque) haplogroup and R1a is Indo-Iranian haplogroup.
    Probably not. The people residing in Neolithic "Basque Territory" had genomes resembling modern Basques yet did not have R1b as a paternal haplogroup, just I2-M223 and G2a like other Neolithic men of which we literally have 100's of samples.

    R1b-L51 spread from SE Poland from the western steppes around 3000 BC. R1b is a steppe haplogroup. What language did they speak originally? Hard to say, but no evidence it was Basque or Basque like.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmiri View Post
    R1b is Euskera (Bashkir/Basque) haplogroup and R1a is Indo-Iranian haplogroup.
    Even though there are more R1a men among the Bashkirs than R1b men? Somehow Bashkirs are R1b but not R1a? SMH.

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    There's no more ludicrous pseudo-science in genetics than the attempt to link haplogroups that are dozens of thousands of years old with just one specific language or language group of the modern era as if haplogroups spoke languages - and never switched to another language, either. Besides, any relationship between genetics (autosomal or uniparental markers) and language families (let alone specific languages that arose only in the last few millennia) dating to any longer than about 15,000 years is not just less likely to be true and only a matter of non-demonstrable probability. It's nothing but fanciful speculation. Fun, but totally unscientific.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmiri View Post
    R1b is Euskera (Bashkir/Basque) haplogroup and R1a is Indo-Iranian haplogroup.
    Nonsense. R1a predates Indo-Iranian as a common Proto-Indo-Iranian language by many, maaaaaany thousands of years, and it exists even where Indo-Iranian was probably never spoken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1981 View Post
    Probably not. The people residing in Neolithic "Basque Territory" had genomes resembling modern Basques yet did not have R1b as a paternal haplogroup, just I2-M223 and G2a like other Neolithic men of which we literally have 100's of samples.

    R1b-L51 spread from SE Poland from the western steppes around 3000 BC. R1b is a steppe haplogroup. What language did they speak originally? Hard to say, but no evidence it was Basque or Basque like.
    Euskera was the original name of steppe people, the same people who already called Bashkir, according to many Perso-Arabic sources, the original language of Bashkirs before Turkification in the 10th century was Farangi (Western European), we read about Bashkir in encyclopedia: https://www.encyclopedia.com/humanit...aps/bashkirs-0

    The Bashkirs are a Turkic Muslim people living within the Russian Federation. Bashkirs first appear in historical sources in the 10th century ad, as the inhabitants of the southern Ural mountains, the area which they still occupy today. The origins of the Bashkirs are obscure. Although today the Bashkirs speak a Turkic language, some historians consider them to have originally been Hungarian speakers who remained in the Ural mountains when the ancestors of modern Hungarians began the migration that eventually led them to settle in Central Europe.
    Abu Hamid Al-Andalusi Al-Gharnati, ca. 1150 CE (translated by P. Lunde and C. Stone): https://humanitieswatch.org/2016/09/...living-europe/

    Then I reached the country of Hungary, where the people called Bashghird live. They are descended from the first tribes that came from the lands of the Turks and entered the lands of the Franks. They are brave and their numbers are beyond counting.
    About R1b: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1b

    It is the most frequently occurring paternal lineage in Western Europe, as well as some parts of Russia (e.g. the Bashkir minority).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    Nonsense. R1a predates Indo-Iranian as a common Proto-Indo-Iranian language by many, maaaaaany thousands of years, and it exists even where Indo-Iranian was probably never spoken.
    Of course I meant R1a-M417 and Z282 and Z93 subclades, it seems to be clear R1a predates not only Indo-Iranian but also Proto-Indo-Eruoepan by several thousands years.

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    I think that:

    ANE language (R1)
    North Eastern Hunter Gatherer language (R1a1a)
    Para-Proto-Indo-European language (R1a1a1)


    ANE language (R1)
    South Eastern Hunter Gatherer language (R1b1a)
    Proto-Indo-European language (R1b1a1a2)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmiri View Post
    Of course I meant R1a-M417 and Z282 and Z93 subclades, it seems to be clear R1a predates not only Indo-Iranian but also Proto-Indo-Eruoepan by several thousands years.
    Z282 is not related to Indo-Iranian. Also R1a predates Proto Indo-European by more than a several thousand years. Try 15,000 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kmak View Post
    I think that:

    ANE language (R1)
    North Eastern Hunter Gatherer language (R1a1a)
    Para-Proto-Indo-European language (R1a1a1)


    ANE language (R1)
    South Eastern Hunter Gatherer language (R1b1a)
    Proto-Indo-European language (R1b1a1a2)
    Did these Para-Proto-Indo-European speaking people live in the south of Levant too? R1a1a1 has been also found there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratchet_fan View Post
    Z282 is not related to Indo-Iranian. Also R1a predates Proto Indo-European by more than a several thousand years. Try 15,000 years.
    Do you mean Z282 just related to ancient Iranian speaking people, like European Sarmatians?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmiri View Post
    Did these Para-Proto-Indo-European speaking people live in the south of Levant too? R1a1a1 has been also found there.
    R1a1a1 is not originated from levant, but this Y DNA is from easte Europea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kmak View Post
    R1a1a1 is not originated from levant, but this Y DNA is from easte Europea.
    The original land was not the Levant but it was also not East of Europe.

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    Those topics are extremelly redundant. It's like every days there is a new one on the same topic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmiri View Post
    The original land was not the Levant but it was also not East of Europe.
    it is east or north east european origin. cwc, sredny stog cultures have it.

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