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Thread: New archeological evidence shows that humans already reached America 33,000 years ago

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    3 members found this post helpful.

    Arrow New archeological evidence shows that humans already reached America 33,000 years ago



    This is some groundbreaking news. The consensus had been that Siberians colonised the Americas around 15,000 to 14,000 years ago. This was not only supported by archaeology, but also but genetics, as the Q1a-M3 lineage of Native Americans was formed some 15,000 years ago. Pushing the date back to 33,000 years ago would mean that this first colonisation event, which reached as far south as Mexico, was conducted by a completely different group of people. Haplogroup Q did not even exist back then.

    Evidence of human occupation in Mexico around the Last Glacial Maximum, Ardelean et al. (2020)


    Abstract

    The initial colonization of the Americas remains a highly debated topic, and the exact timing of the first arrivals is unknown. The earliest archaeological record of Mexico—which holds a key geographical position in the Americas—is poorly known and understudied. Historically, the region has remained on the periphery of research focused on the first American populations. However, recent investigations provide reliable evidence of a human presence in the northwest region of Mexico, the Chiapas Highlands, Central Mexico and the Caribbean coast during the Late Pleistocene and Early Holocene epochs. Here we present results of recent excavations at Chiquihuite Cave—a high-altitude site in central-northern Mexico—that corroborate previous findings in the Americas of cultural evidence that dates to the Last Glacial Maximum (26,500–19,000 years ago), and which push back dates for human dispersal to the region possibly as early as 33,000–31,000 years ago. The site yielded about 1,900 stone artefacts within a 3-m-deep stratified sequence, revealing a previously unknown lithic industry that underwent only minor changes over millennia. More than 50 radiocarbon and luminescence dates provide chronological control, and genetic, palaeoenvironmental and chemical data document the changing environments in which the occupants lived. Our results provide new evidence for the antiquity of humans in the Americas, illustrate the cultural diversity of the earliest dispersal groups (which predate those of the Clovis culture) and open new directions of research.


    Here is the BBC's article on the topic. They explain that the North America before the Last Glacial Maximum would not be a welcoming place. But neither was Siberia where the migrants originated.

    Between 26,000-19,000 years ago, sea levels were low enough for people to cross easily from Siberia to America via the Beringian land bridge. But what about during earlier times?"Before 26,000 years ago, the latest data suggest that Beringia might have been a rather unattractive place for humans to be. It might well have been boggy and very difficult to traverse," said Prof Higham.
    "We still think the most likely scenario is for people to have come on a coastal route - hugging a coast - perhaps with some kind of maritime technology."
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    Y dna C or some sort of undifferentiated K?

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    "Archaeologists say stone artefacts point to occupation more than 30,000 years ago — but not everyone is convinced."

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02190-y

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    Several years ago, the Uruguayan paleontologist Richard Fariña discovered, in the dry stream bed of a place relatively close to Montevideo, the bones of animals from the megafauna of approximately 30,000 years ago, with evident marks of lithic tools. For reasons that I do not fully understand, the finding has not yet been validated ...

    https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota...ia-20131120500

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    In any case if humans reached the American continent 30,000 to 33,000 years ago, they would have been dark skinned and would probably have carried Y-DNA haplogroups now extinct in the Americas (C, D or K are the most likely). They might have become extinct before the second wave 15,000 years ago, or entirely replaced after contact with the new migrants.

    On the other hand I remember reading that many Amazonian tribes (including the Suruí, Karitiana and Xavante) carried a few percents of DNA that was similar to the Papuans and Aboriginal Australians. That might be the leftover of the first migration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    On the other hand I remember reading that many Amazonian tribes (including the Suruí, Karitiana and Xavante) carried a few percents of DNA that was similar to the Papuans and Aboriginal Australians. That might be the leftover of the first migration.
    there is also C2b-L1373*

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-L1373/

    it split from C2b 16 ka
    and there are 2 subclades
    one in Texas and another in the northeastern Amazon forest area

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    In any case if humans reached the American continent 30,000 to 33,000 years ago, they would have been dark skinned and would probably have carried Y-DNA haplogroups now extinct in the Americas (C, D or K are the most likely). They might have become extinct before the second wave 15,000 years ago, or entirely replaced after contact with the new migrants.
    I guess that if they survived from 30 or 33 ka through LGM till 16 ka, they would have left more traces.
    But of course, the shorelines were lower then.

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    On a related note is C1b considered West or East Eurasian btw?

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    The anthropologist Niède Guidon always maintained up to this day that her findings of bonfires and cave paintings in the beautiful Serra da Capivara area in the state of Piauí (Brazil) were a lot older than all the other archaeological findings with datings already uninamously accepted by the scientific community. AFAIK most scientists never gave much credit to her theory. Was she maybe onto something? I think her date estimates are far too early (50,000 years ago), but what if it's indeed an evidence of pre-Paleo-Amerindian human presence as far south as Brazil? That could explain the tiny Australasian admixture in a few Amazonian tribes today.







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    nice paintings in a nice setting
    but afaik no similar paintings in eastern Siberia or Asia

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur View Post
    there is also C2b-L1373*
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-L1373/
    it split from C2b 16 ka
    and there are 2 subclades
    one in Texas and another in the northeastern Amazon forest area
    C2b is found in the western half of North America from Alaska to Texas, including some Na-Dené, Algonquian-, or Siouan-speaking populations. American C2b is all C2b1a1a-P39 and apparently originated around Mongolia in the last few thousand years. The Na-Déné languages has been proposed to belong to the Déné-Yeniseian language family together with the Yeniseian languages of central Siberia. This late migration from Siberia may be related to the Arctic small tool tradition, which developed around the Bering Strait some 4500 years ago. According to Pavel Flegontov, ASTt may have originated in East Siberia about 5,000 years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    American C2b is all C2b1a1a-P39 and apparently originated around Mongolia in the last few thousand years.
    There is also American C2b-L1373*, but it is rare.
    In ISOGG 2019-2020 this clade is known as C2a2 and it has 2 sublcades.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...ange=E313:M313

    you can check the distribution here :

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...711&range=A477

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