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Thread: 100 Proto-Germanic loanwords in Elamite

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    100 Proto-Germanic loanwords in Elamite



    My work will be published soon in Iran, of course it is about different Indo-European languages and even Proto-Indo-European but absolute majority of words are from Proto-Germanic, I will write an English article and publish it in Academia website soon.

    Some examples:

    s>š

    Elamite išturak "straight" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-357) from Proto-Germanic *strak "straight" from Proto-Indo-European *(s)treg- (“rigid, stiff”): https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Recon...rmanic/strakaz

    Elamite šahši "cut" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-582) from Proto-Germanic *sahsą "a stone chip used for cutting" from from Proto-Indo-European *sek- (“to cut”): https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Recon...nic/sahs%C4%85

    sk>š

    Elamite šàriu "shore" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-87) from Proto-Germanic *skurô "shore"
    Elamite šadaku "shade, shadow" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-606) from Proto-Germanic *skadu "sahdow"

    s/sm>z

    Elamite zin "infant, baby" (https://ids.clld.org/valuesets/2-280-216) from Proto-Germanic *sun "son, baby" from Proto-Indo-European *sewH- (“to bear; give birth”): https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/son

    Elamite zikk "thin (in dimension)" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-272) from Proto-Germanic *smik "thik" from From Proto-Indo-European *smēyg- (“small, thin, delicate”): https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B...81%CF%8C%CF%82

    d>t

    Elamite hati "skin, hide" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-539) from Proto-Germanic *hūdi "skin, hide" from Proto-Indo-European *kéwHtis (“bedecking, hide, skin”): https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Recon...nic/h%C5%ABdiz

    g>k

    Elamite kurusa "barley" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-502) from Proto-Germanic *gerstō "barley": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Recon...ic/gerst%C5%8D (compare Hittite karas "wheat" from Proto-Indo-European *gʰersa)

    Some indirect Proto-Germanic words:

    Elamite uhuma "stone, rock" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-617) from Proto-Germanic *ahma/uhma "stone, rock" (comapre to *hamara "hammer") from Proto-Indo-European *h₂éḱmō "stone": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Recon...1%B8%B1m%C5%8D

    Elamite har "stone, rock" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-188) from Proto-Germanic *har "stone, hard" from Proto-Indo-European *kar "stone, hard": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%96%E0%A4%B0

    Elamite hurpi "fruit" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-71) from Proto-Germanic *harbu "fruit", compare to ancient Greek karpos "fruit", from Proto-Indo-European *kerp- (“pluck, harvest”): https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%B...#Ancient_Greek

    From some other Indo-European language:

    Elamite tila "calf" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-398) from Proto-Balto-Slavic *tel- "calf": https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Recon...avic/tel%C4%99

    Elamite ukulaki "cloak" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-209) from Proto-Italic *kluka "cloak"

    Elamite hala "field (for cultivation)" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-579) from Proto-Armenian *hol "field, soil"

    Elamite pata "foot" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-341) from Proto-Indo-Iranian *pata "foot"

    Elamite anip "relatives, kinsmen" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-485) from Proto-Hellenic anepsiós "cousin"

    Elamite kurza "weave" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-213) from Hittite karza "spoon"

    Elamite putma "feather" (https://ids.clld.org/units/216-343) from Proto-Italic *petna "feather"

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    What's your methodology? Just comparing and then collecting words that sound similar and have the same or close meaning? Are all those sound correspondences regular in several words? Also, did you consider possible cognates of Proto-Germanic words in other extant or early IE branches?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    What's your methodology? Just comparing and then collecting words that sound similar and have the same or close meaning? Are all those sound correspondences regular in several words? Also, did you consider possible cognates of Proto-Germanic words in other extant or early IE branches?
    Of course first I compare the words and their meanings but the most important thing is Sound change, when we see two words with almost the same meanings are very similar, we should doubt that they relate to each other directly, for example Elamite tila "calf" and Lithuanian telia "calf" are very similar, it doesn't mean they couldn't be related to each other but not directly, it is possible that there was Proto-Germanic *delia (Verner's law) with the same origin of Lithuanian word and Elamites borrowed this Proto-Germanic word.
    As you see I have also mentioned some Elamite words which seem to be from Hittite, Indo-Iranian and Greek, most of them have Proto-Germanic cognates too but as I said the absolute majority of words seem to from Proto-Germanic.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I have to give your credit for your persistence. You're still a troll though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratchet_fan View Post
    I have to give your credit for your persistence. You're still a troll though.
    It seems there are already many trolls who believe Indo-Europeans originally lived in the east of the fertile crescent, some of them are German scholars (!!), look at it:

    On 21st of April 2018, a new German documentary (3 episodes) about human migrations, "Les grands voyages de l‘humanité"/"Die Reise der Menschheit" (Cristina Trebbi and
    Christian Twente, Germany, 2018), was broadcasted by ARTE a public Franco-German TV network that promotes programming in the areas of culture and the arts.

    https://www.arte.tv/fr/videos/069847...-humanite-1-3/ (in French/German language but not sure it can be viewed outside of Europe)

    In the first episode of this documentary, we can listen Johannes Krause (http://www.shh.mpg.de/2890/johanneskrause) and Russell Gray (http://www.shh.mpg.de/2923/russellgray) from prestigious Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History (http://www.shh.mpg.de/69713/profile) (MPI-SHH) talking about Ancient DNA and PIE homeland.

    Johannes Krause is Director of Department of Archeogenetics (http://www.shh.mpg.de/28671/research_outline) and Russell Gray is Director of Department of Linguistic and Cultural Evolution (http://www.shh.mpg.de/DLCE-research-overview).

    At minute 23:00, Russell Gray : "According to us, the best hypothesis is the one which brings together genetic and linguistic data. They [the Proto-Indo-Europeans] would have lived east of the fertile crescent about 8000 years ago ... We believe that the origin is here in the southern Caucasus, eastern Anatolia, Armenia, and perhaps in northern Iran about 8,000 years ago"

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    These are not Proto-Germanic words but Elamite, now I have found 350 words, another article:

    Elamite, an Indo-European language, close to Proto-Germanic (Change of /d/ to /t/)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    What's your methodology? Just comparing and then collecting words that sound similar and have the same or close meaning? Are all those sound correspondences regular in several words? Also, did you consider possible cognates of Proto-Germanic words in other extant or early IE branches?
    Why would that even be considered? If one did that it could result in the nonsense becoming even more ridiculous!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmiri View Post
    Do you have any actual evidence to support these claims? Majority of this seems like wishful thinking just to simply draw a connection between Elamite and PGmc which clearly does not exist.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    Do you have any actual evidence to support these claims? Majority of this seems like wishful thinking just to simply draw a connection between Elamite and PGmc which clearly does not exist.
    In my next articles you will see that Elamite, as an IE language, is not really very close to Proto-Germanic, for example the Elamite words for "gold" are lansiti: https://ids.clld.org/units/216-620 and lašda: https://ids.clld.org/units/216-635 (without nasal infix), or the Elamite word for
    "I (first person singular pronoun)" is u: https://ids.clld.org/units/216-581

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    You literally have “close to Proto-Germanic” in your article title that you recently linked. This is nonsense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    You literally have “close to Proto-Germanic” in your article title that you recently linked. This is nonsense.
    I don't know what your imagination about Proto-Germanic is, it is just an Indo-European language like other IE languages, there is nothing which can make it distinct from others, Elamite sound changes are certainly closer to Proto-Germanic, as I said in my previous article we see Verner's law in Elamite too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shahmiri View Post
    I don't know what your imagination about Proto-Germanic is, it is just an Indo-European language like other IE languages, there is nothing which can make it distinct from others, Elamite sound changes are certainly closer to Proto-Germanic, as I said in my previous article we see Verner's law in Elamite too.
    I'm not sure what you're on about, I'm not the one making the bold claims that you are making. Please provide legitimate evidence to back up your claims.

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    I think that Proto-Dravidian language is from R2(Y DNA) people. R1 and R2 spoke same(or brother) language. R1 language is great-great-grandfather of Proto-IE and Para-Proto-IE. I think that R1b create Proto-IE and R1a create Para-Proto-IE. R2 language is great-great-great-grandfather of Proto-Dravidian and Para-Dravidian.

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