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Thread: Photo-real portraits of Roman emperors

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    I wonder if autosomal DNA contributes more to looks than YDNA. My intuition surely supports such line of thinking.

    I agree they both have some semblance to the roman look, judging by busts and art.

    I found this:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

    Seems the Trumps as a line are not homogenous in their YDNA... for whatever reason. There is an I1 there, so you might be right though.

    I wonder why you think their Roman looks come from their Czech side? Afaik neither Czech nor German were really influenced more than the other from Roman DNA, given they weren't part of the empire.
    I think what is considered to be classic "Roman" look, which can be found in many parts of Europe, i.e. prominent nose bridge, and chiseled facial features, comes from CHG via Yamnaya admixture. Which is why it can be found in populations that aren't associated with actual Roman settlement or occupation.

    Example, General Michael Flynn:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    ... imho:

    That's much better. I have no idea how the four busts shown above could produce Daniel Craig. :)

    The artist didn't get the memo, I guess, that Republican Era Romans looked like Spaniards and North/Central Italians, not like Scandinavians. :)

    Now, this baker from Bagnone isn't all that far off, imo. He would be called "biondo" btw. Different definitions in different places.

    Last edited by Angela; 03-08-20 at 20:18.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    I wonder if autosomal DNA contributes more to looks than YDNA. My intuition surely supports such line of thinking.

    I agree they both have some semblance to the roman look, judging by busts and art.

    I found this:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

    Seems the Trumps as a line are not homogenous in their YDNA... for whatever reason. There is an I1 there, so you might be right though.

    I wonder why you think their Roman looks come from their Czech side? Afaik neither Czech nor German were really influenced more than the other from Roman DNA, given they weren't part of the empire.
    I don't know where their noses "come from" in terms of lineage. I just meant that it doesn't look like Trump has that kind of nose, i.e. high nose bridge so it's almost a straight line from forehead to nose, or Roman "bump" half way down.



    As a young man I see a resemblance more to Eric than Donald Jr. except for the pigmentation. The nose looks "thicker" around the bridge, don't you think? Maybe he had it altered?



    His parents:


    It looks like the Roman "bump" came from Trump's father. Nice looking man; better looking than his son at the same time of life.

    It's hard to tell, but I don't think either of the sons got the nose from Ivana.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    I wonder if autosomal DNA contributes more to looks than YDNA. My intuition surely supports such line of thinking.

    I agree they both have some semblance to the roman look, judging by busts and art.

    I found this:

    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

    Seems the Trumps as a line are not homogenous in their YDNA... for whatever reason. There is an I1 there, so you might be right though.

    I wonder why you think their Roman looks come from their Czech side? Afaik neither Czech nor German were really influenced more than the other from Roman DNA, given they weren't part of the empire.
    The entire Y chromosome is tiny, less than 2% of a male's genome, and most of it has nothing to do with physical features at all. I doubt it has even some minor but non-negligible influence on one's looks. There are lots of men who are the spitting image of their mothers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuvanè View Post
    You're right Angela.
    In some examples the result is somewhat questionable. I agree on Marcus Aurelius or Adrianus, which have become really too exotic. (But I believe for the same reasons that the emperors whose Italic ancestry is known become automatically blond and pink in complexion...).


    It's difficult to get rid of certain stereotypes :)
    Yes, Hadrian and Marcus Aurelius, who was of his family, are the most egregiously wrong imo.

    Hadrian, who was of a colonial Italic/Hispanic family originally from Picenum winds up looking like an Arab, and Marcus Aurelius, born in Rome, not Spain as I erroneously said, looks Arab admixed. How that would have happened given it was years before the Muslim invasions is beyond me.


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    Caligula had him as a partner in one of my first jobs, his family was from Jáen, reserved and sly. Marcus Aurelio has been a client of mine, he is Catalan and I find him walking many afternoons when I am in Catalonia.


    Totally, it's them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I don't know where their noses "come from" in terms of lineage. I just meant that it doesn't look like Trump has that kind of nose, i.e. high nose bridge so it's almost a straight line from forehead to nose, or Roman "bump" half way down.



    As a young man I see a resemblance more to Eric than Donald Jr. except for the pigmentation. The nose looks "thicker" around the bridge, don't you think? Maybe he had it altered?



    His parents:


    It looks like the Roman "bump" came from Trump's father. Nice looking man; better looking than his son at the same time of life.

    It's hard to tell, but I don't think either of the sons got the nose from Ivana.

    Defitively not Ivana imo. Probably from their grandpa. Although there is a difference between Trump and his sons noses I still see similarities.
    The biggest ones being that their nose is relatively thin, ie not bulky running down, long and a bit arching, ie not a straight line.





    I think DT Juniors nose is closer to his grandfathers. While Erics is a mix between his gp and Trump.
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    Here is how I imagine/envision the roman nose:



    The ratios between the forehead, brow, nose, cheekbones, chin and jaw are really specific when it comes to these busts from the Roman Era. I find them similar to the ratios used in some of the Classical Greek statues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Here is how I imagine/envision the roman nose:



    The ratios between the forehead, brow, nose, cheekbones, chin and jaw are really specific when it comes to these busts from the Roman Era. I find them similar to the ratios used in some of the Classical Greek statues.
    That is already considered to be a "Greek Nose".

    Fredrick Trump, up thread has what would be traditionally considered a "Roman Nose".

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    Frederick Trumps nose is imo too straight for a roman nose. at least from the angle on that picture. i've got kind of a roman nose though my tip is not pointing down but it's got quite a hook. and i always imagine a roman eagles beak when i think of a roman nose.
    and the nose shape is called aquiline after all.
    edit:it looks roman here. even more roman than mine since the tip is pointing down. maybe it's becasue he is smiling. but it's a bit less hooked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    That is already considered to be a "Greek Nose".

    Fredrick Trump, up thread has what would be traditionally considered a "Roman Nose".
    You are probably right. Although that image I found some 1-2 years ago googling Roman bust/statue/sculpture. Can not find the source right now even reverse image google searching.

    So would this type of nose fall under Roman or Greek?




    Although what I have in mind is the above nose, just a bit longer nostrils to point.

    As for female version of the nose... here is this model I absolutely have a crush on. She is from Massachusets I think, could not find info about her ethnicity/parents.







    I highly suspect she has Italian ancestry... can not verify/confirm tho.

    Here is her instagram for better reference to her nose.

    https://www.instagram.com/jessicaclements/?hl=en





    Does she look Italian to you?

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    Well, a lot of Romans had quite different noses. I don't think that's the most common one at all.

    Marcus Porcius Cato:


    Scipio Africanus the elder:


    Cicero:

    Caesar:


    Marius:



    Sulla:


    Pompei


    Marc Antony


    These were the most prominent men of their day. As far as their noses are concerned I'd say the most common trait was a high bridge and the sort of "bump" right below it, with Pompei being the exception.

    I think you're confusing A "Grecian" nose and a "Roman" nose.

    They didn't have that straight "Grecian" nose, which may have been just an idealized version of a nose even in Greece, used for every statue, but not necessarily on most people.

    Romans, especially of that period, produced very realistic busts of their leaders, imo.

    The most common "feature" imo was that distinctive very broad skull coupled with a tapering almost triangular face, and the small mouth.

    Richard Armitage has a Roman nose in my opinion; Italian as well. :) If his eyes were different I'd definitely guess Italian.



    Jovialis too has a Roman nose, although not as long. My son and father had it too, minus the slight dip right at the eyes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    Frederick Trumps nose is imo too straight for a roman nose. at least from the angle on that picture. i've got kind of a roman nose though my tip is not pointing down but it's got quite a hook. and i always imagine a roman eagles beak when i think of a roman nose.
    and the nose shape is called aquiline after all.
    edit:it looks roman here. even more roman than mine since the tip is pointing down. maybe it's becasue he is smiling. but it's a bit less hooked.
    I posted mine here:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post609854

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Well, a lot of Romans had quite different noses. I don't think that's the most common one at all.

    Marcus Porcius Cato:


    Scipio Africanus the elder:


    Cicero:

    Caesar:


    Marius:



    Sulla:


    Pompei


    Marc Antony


    These were the most prominent men of their day. As far as their noses are concerned I'd say the most common trait was a high bridge and the sort of "bump" right below it, with Pompei being the exception.

    I think you're confusing A "Grecian" nose and a "Roman" nose.

    They didn't have that straight "Grecian" nose, which may have been just an idealized version of a nose even in Greece, used for every statue, but not necessarily on most people.

    Romans, especially of that period, produced very realistic busts of their leaders, imo.

    The most common "feature" imo was that distinctive very broad skull coupled with a tapering almost triangular face, and the small mouth.

    Richard Armitage has a Roman nose in my opinion; Italian as well. :) If his eyes were different I'd definitely guess Italian.



    Jovialis too has a Roman nose, although not as long. My son and father had it too, minus the slight dip right at the eyes.
    You are right. Blame my confusion to the similarities between Ancient Greek and Roman era art I have consumed... Their statues have a lot of similarities.

    About the questions upthread, what do you think, does Jessica look Italian? What about the reconstructed nose... I see features of both Grecian and Roman. What would you classify the nose as?

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    I have a cousin who looks just like Scipio Africanus. One thing that is typically Italian are dimples on both ends of the lips. I also have this and many family members. I've noticed many Roman statues having it as well and they forgot to properly imitate it with the reconstruction attempts.

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    Totally. I have also worked with him, I do not remember exactly if he came from Granada or Córdoba.

    By the way in Jerez there are quite a few Romans-Romans I have had them sitting next to in the bus and I have even seen groups of young people in their twenties 4 or 5 and all of them were Romans, they probably didn't even know it, God raises them and they get together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    You are right. Blame my confusion to the similarities between Ancient Greek and Roman era art I have consumed... Their statues have a lot of similarities.

    About the questions upthread, what do you think, does Jessica look Italian? What about the reconstructed nose... I see features of both Grecian and Roman. What would you classify the nose as?
    I'll reply on this thread as it seems the more appropriate place.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ty-by-the-nose

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    If the Young Lady really is Nefertiti the busts of important personalities of antiquity could be idealized. In the case of the Roman emperors, I think that the one who would be the most idealized would be those of Augustus and Claudius, another version of Caligula that is out there, I think it is better than this one here where he is decanted towards Britain like the rest of the most frequented for the cinema.




    In this ring of a Roman patrician, a portrait of the owner of the jewel seems to be seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos View Post




    In this ring of a Roman patrician, a portrait of the owner of the jewel seems to be seen.
    Fascinating!

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    Ludovisi Battle Sarcophagus

    Some of the soldiers here exhibit the classic "Roman" nose, along with others. However, so do some of the Goths as well.

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    http://loradelriotk.blogspot.com/201...o-augusto.html

    Bust of Augustus that must have belonged to a statue found in Lora del Río (Seville), cohesive to the time of the emperor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Using the neural-net tool Artbreeder, Photoshop and historical references, Daniel Voshart have created photoreal portraits of Roman Emperors. For this project, I have transformed, or restored (cracks, noses, ears etc.) 800 images of busts to make the 54 emperors of The Principate (27 BC to 285 AD). He posted about it on Medium and explained in detail how he recreated the face of each emperor one by one. The realism is absolutely amazing!







    wow very cool
    augustus looks like a cross of this french actor
    https://www.fandango.com/people/thie...ermitte-400681
    and putin

    p.s
    even if not this actor has a roman look
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC7391/

    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/

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    Philip the Arab, Philip II, Caracalla, Geta, Elagabalus, and Severus Alexander have Arab ancestry. You can tell from their photos they have Middle Eastern features.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aretas View Post
    Philip the Arab, Philip II, Caracalla, Geta, Elagabalus, and Severus Alexander have Arab ancestry. You can tell from their photos they have Middle Eastern features.


    Do you think Adriano looks like an Arab?

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    His front profile photo does look Arab. However, his Roman busts don't.

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