Photo-real portraits of Roman emperors

I recognized that stretch of the emperors too; the remains of the heartland, perhaps. :)

There's definitely something subjective about what's going on. There's nothing written about the coloring of the hair of some of them, so I don't know why he chose to make them blonde. Also don't know how Vespasian, having seen numerous busts of him, turned out looking a bit too much like our American president LBJ. :)

Also, why on earth would he make Marcus Aurelius look admixed with Moor or something? Just because he was born in Spain? He came from a family of colonists; even if he had a bit of Spanish admixture he wouldn't turn out looking like that.

Part of it, perhaps, is the very nature of a program which "averages" the features. You're going to get a very "neutral", bland, not necessarily "real" look. When they average out the faces of Europeans by region you can barely tell them apart minus some of the East Europeans.

Still, generally on the right track I think, and fun to look at...

You're right Angela.
In some examples the result is somewhat questionable. I agree on Marcus Aurelius or Adrianus, which have become really too exotic. (But I believe for the same reasons that the emperors whose Italic ancestry is known become automatically blond and pink in complexion...).


It's difficult to get rid of certain stereotypes :)
 
Italians are heterogenous in terms of phenotype, even those from the same region, and even family. My brother looks different from me, and my sisters. But genetically, we are the same. Ironically, he is the most "northern", yet is the darkest. But so are many other groups, example of two brothers that look different:

Donald Trump Jr. has more of a "Roman" look, compared to Eric:

CcYdyOJ.jpg

Do we know their haplogroup?

I can see a similarity between Edit: Eric Trump ( Its obvious I dont know their names xD) nose and mine. Although we differ on the forehead, hairline, cheekbones and chin.
 
Do we know their haplogroup?

I can see a similarity between Edit: Eric Trump ( Its obvious I dont know their names xD) nose and mine. Although we differ on the forehead, hairline, cheekbones and chin.

I believe I read somewhere that Trump is I1. Makes sense given his father's family came from Germany. The mother's line is from Scotland, I believe.

Interesting how both of them came out with certain "Roman" looking noses, but that doesn't come from Trump. Their mother is Czech.
 
I believe I read somewhere that Trump is I1. Makes sense given his father's family came from Germany. The mother's line is from Scotland, I believe.

Interesting how both of them came out with certain "Roman" looking noses, but that doesn't come from Trump. Their mother is Czech.

I wonder if autosomal DNA contributes more to looks than YDNA. My intuition surely supports such line of thinking.

I agree they both have some semblance to the roman look, judging by busts and art.

I found this:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Trump/default.aspx?section=yresults

Seems the Trumps as a line are not homogenous in their YDNA... for whatever reason. There is an I1 there, so you might be right though.

I wonder why you think their Roman looks come from their Czech side? Afaik neither Czech nor German were really influenced more than the other from Roman DNA, given they weren't part of the empire.
 
I wonder if autosomal DNA contributes more to looks than YDNA. My intuition surely supports such line of thinking.

I agree they both have some semblance to the roman look, judging by busts and art.

I found this:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Trump/default.aspx?section=yresults

Seems the Trumps as a line are not homogenous in their YDNA... for whatever reason. There is an I1 there, so you might be right though.

I wonder why you think their Roman looks come from their Czech side? Afaik neither Czech nor German were really influenced more than the other from Roman DNA, given they weren't part of the empire.

I think what is considered to be classic "Roman" look, which can be found in many parts of Europe, i.e. prominent nose bridge, and chiseled facial features, comes from CHG via Yamnaya admixture. Which is why it can be found in populations that aren't associated with actual Roman settlement or occupation.

Example, General Michael Flynn:

MAdaz0il.jpg
 
... imho:

52K56Sc.jpg

That's much better. I have no idea how the four busts shown above could produce Daniel Craig. :)

The artist didn't get the memo, I guess, that Republican Era Romans looked like Spaniards and North/Central Italians, not like Scandinavians. :)

Now, this baker from Bagnone isn't all that far off, imo. He would be called "biondo" btw. Different definitions in different places.

XkUcUMC.jpg
 
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I wonder if autosomal DNA contributes more to looks than YDNA. My intuition surely supports such line of thinking.

I agree they both have some semblance to the roman look, judging by busts and art.

I found this:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Trump/default.aspx?section=yresults

Seems the Trumps as a line are not homogenous in their YDNA... for whatever reason. There is an I1 there, so you might be right though.

I wonder why you think their Roman looks come from their Czech side? Afaik neither Czech nor German were really influenced more than the other from Roman DNA, given they weren't part of the empire.

I don't know where their noses "come from" in terms of lineage. I just meant that it doesn't look like Trump has that kind of nose, i.e. high nose bridge so it's almost a straight line from forehead to nose, or Roman "bump" half way down.

Donald%20Trump%20profile%2C%20September%202016_7976521_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg


As a young man I see a resemblance more to Eric than Donald Jr. except for the pigmentation. The nose looks "thicker" around the bridge, don't you think? Maybe he had it altered?

donald-trump-young.jpg


His parents:
Relationship-of-President-elect-Donald-Trump%E2%80%99s-Parents.jpg


It looks like the Roman "bump" came from Trump's father. Nice looking man; better looking than his son at the same time of life.

It's hard to tell, but I don't think either of the sons got the nose from Ivana.

ivana-donald-trump.jpg
 
I wonder if autosomal DNA contributes more to looks than YDNA. My intuition surely supports such line of thinking.

I agree they both have some semblance to the roman look, judging by busts and art.

I found this:

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Trump/default.aspx?section=yresults

Seems the Trumps as a line are not homogenous in their YDNA... for whatever reason. There is an I1 there, so you might be right though.

I wonder why you think their Roman looks come from their Czech side? Afaik neither Czech nor German were really influenced more than the other from Roman DNA, given they weren't part of the empire.

The entire Y chromosome is tiny, less than 2% of a male's genome, and most of it has nothing to do with physical features at all. I doubt it has even some minor but non-negligible influence on one's looks. There are lots of men who are the spitting image of their mothers.
 
You're right Angela.
In some examples the result is somewhat questionable. I agree on Marcus Aurelius or Adrianus, which have become really too exotic. (But I believe for the same reasons that the emperors whose Italic ancestry is known become automatically blond and pink in complexion...).


It's difficult to get rid of certain stereotypes :)

Yes, Hadrian and Marcus Aurelius, who was of his family, are the most egregiously wrong imo.

Hadrian, who was of a colonial Italic/Hispanic family originally from Picenum winds up looking like an Arab, and Marcus Aurelius, born in Rome, not Spain as I erroneously said, looks Arab admixed. How that would have happened given it was years before the Muslim invasions is beyond me.

hw10.jpg
 
Caligula had him as a partner in one of my first jobs, his family was from Jáen, reserved and sly. Marcus Aurelio has been a client of mine, he is Catalan and I find him walking many afternoons when I am in Catalonia.


Totally, it's them.
 
I don't know where their noses "come from" in terms of lineage. I just meant that it doesn't look like Trump has that kind of nose, i.e. high nose bridge so it's almost a straight line from forehead to nose, or Roman "bump" half way down.

Donald%20Trump%20profile%2C%20September%202016_7976521_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg


As a young man I see a resemblance more to Eric than Donald Jr. except for the pigmentation. The nose looks "thicker" around the bridge, don't you think? Maybe he had it altered?

donald-trump-young.jpg


His parents:
Relationship-of-President-elect-Donald-Trump%E2%80%99s-Parents.jpg


It looks like the Roman "bump" came from Trump's father. Nice looking man; better looking than his son at the same time of life.

It's hard to tell, but I don't think either of the sons got the nose from Ivana.

ivana-donald-trump.jpg

Defitively not Ivana imo. Probably from their grandpa. Although there is a difference between Trump and his sons noses I still see similarities.
The biggest ones being that their nose is relatively thin, ie not bulky running down, long and a bit arching, ie not a straight line.

Donald%20Trump%20profile%2C%20September%202016_7976521_ver1.0_1280_720.jpg

CcYdyOJ.jpg

Relationship-of-President-elect-Donald-Trump%E2%80%99s-Parents.jpg


I think DT Juniors nose is closer to his grandfathers. While Erics is a mix between his gp and Trump.
 
Here is how I imagine/envision the roman nose:

rV1ByAh
xFhcVkl.png


The ratios between the forehead, brow, nose, cheekbones, chin and jaw are really specific when it comes to these busts from the Roman Era. I find them similar to the ratios used in some of the Classical Greek statues.
 
Here is how I imagine/envision the roman nose:

rV1ByAh
xFhcVkl.png


The ratios between the forehead, brow, nose, cheekbones, chin and jaw are really specific when it comes to these busts from the Roman Era. I find them similar to the ratios used in some of the Classical Greek statues.

That is already considered to be a "Greek Nose".

Fredrick Trump, up thread has what would be traditionally considered a "Roman Nose".
 
Frederick Trumps nose is imo too straight for a roman nose. at least from the angle on that picture. i've got kind of a roman nose though my tip is not pointing down but it's got quite a hook. and i always imagine a roman eagles beak when i think of a roman nose.
and the nose shape is called aquiline after all.
edit:it looks roman here. even more roman than mine since the tip is pointing down. maybe it's becasue he is smiling. but it's a bit less hooked.
EVkt2OJXgAABC14.jpg
 
That is already considered to be a "Greek Nose".

Fredrick Trump, up thread has what would be traditionally considered a "Roman Nose".

You are probably right. Although that image I found some 1-2 years ago googling Roman bust/statue/sculpture. Can not find the source right now even reverse image google searching.

So would this type of nose fall under Roman or Greek?

images

d1jy4ky-d610c2fe-f4f3-4d11-8133-d2118c53139f.jpg


Although what I have in mind is the above nose, just a bit longer nostrils to point.

As for female version of the nose... here is this model I absolutely have a crush on. She is from Massachusets I think, could not find info about her ethnicity/parents.

1662340537293829~c5_720x720.jpeg

jessica-clements-wiki-bio-age-net-worth-height-boyfriend-dating

jessica-clements-wiki-bio-age-net-worth-height-boyfriend-dating

Jessica-Clements.jpg

1581561505_1_Jessica%20Clements%202.jpg


I highly suspect she has Italian ancestry... can not verify/confirm tho.

Here is her instagram for better reference to her nose.

https://www.instagram.com/jessicaclements/?hl=en

6yTRTBv.png


gVeVp8z.png


Does she look Italian to you?
 
Well, a lot of Romans had quite different noses. I don't think that's the most common one at all.

Marcus Porcius Cato:
printable-bust-of-marcus-porcius-cato-the-censor-3d-model-obj-stl.jpg


Scipio Africanus the elder:
1407237816-Scipio_Africanus_the_Elder_.jpg


Cicero:
M-T-Cicero.jpg

Caesar:
Julius-Caesar.jpg


Marius:
Marius.jpg



Sulla:
sylla%20munich.jpg


Pompei
pompey.jpg


Marc Antony
mark-antony.jpg


These were the most prominent men of their day. As far as their noses are concerned I'd say the most common trait was a high bridge and the sort of "bump" right below it, with Pompei being the exception.

I think you're confusing A "Grecian" nose and a "Roman" nose.

They didn't have that straight "Grecian" nose, which may have been just an idealized version of a nose even in Greece, used for every statue, but not necessarily on most people.

Romans, especially of that period, produced very realistic busts of their leaders, imo.

The most common "feature" imo was that distinctive very broad skull coupled with a tapering almost triangular face, and the small mouth.

Richard Armitage has a Roman nose in my opinion; Italian as well. :) If his eyes were different I'd definitely guess Italian.

52577e94588272194246e7b3f5ff7ee0.jpg


Jovialis too has a Roman nose, although not as long. My son and father had it too, minus the slight dip right at the eyes.
 
Frederick Trumps nose is imo too straight for a roman nose. at least from the angle on that picture. i've got kind of a roman nose though my tip is not pointing down but it's got quite a hook. and i always imagine a roman eagles beak when i think of a roman nose.
and the nose shape is called aquiline after all.
edit:it looks roman here. even more roman than mine since the tip is pointing down. maybe it's becasue he is smiling. but it's a bit less hooked.
EVkt2OJXgAABC14.jpg
I posted mine here:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...he-nose/page10?p=609854&viewfull=1#post609854
 
Well, a lot of Romans had quite different noses. I don't think that's the most common one at all.

Marcus Porcius Cato:
printable-bust-of-marcus-porcius-cato-the-censor-3d-model-obj-stl.jpg


Scipio Africanus the elder:
1407237816-Scipio_Africanus_the_Elder_.jpg


Cicero:
M-T-Cicero.jpg

Caesar:
Julius-Caesar.jpg


Marius:
Marius.jpg



Sulla:
sylla%20munich.jpg


Pompei
pompey.jpg


Marc Antony
mark-antony.jpg


These were the most prominent men of their day. As far as their noses are concerned I'd say the most common trait was a high bridge and the sort of "bump" right below it, with Pompei being the exception.

I think you're confusing A "Grecian" nose and a "Roman" nose.

They didn't have that straight "Grecian" nose, which may have been just an idealized version of a nose even in Greece, used for every statue, but not necessarily on most people.

Romans, especially of that period, produced very realistic busts of their leaders, imo.

The most common "feature" imo was that distinctive very broad skull coupled with a tapering almost triangular face, and the small mouth.

Richard Armitage has a Roman nose in my opinion; Italian as well. :) If his eyes were different I'd definitely guess Italian.

52577e94588272194246e7b3f5ff7ee0.jpg


Jovialis too has a Roman nose, although not as long. My son and father had it too, minus the slight dip right at the eyes.

You are right. Blame my confusion to the similarities between Ancient Greek and Roman era art I have consumed... Their statues have a lot of similarities.

About the questions upthread, what do you think, does Jessica look Italian? What about the reconstructed nose... I see features of both Grecian and Roman. What would you classify the nose as?
 
I have a cousin who looks just like Scipio Africanus. One thing that is typically Italian are dimples on both ends of the lips. I also have this and many family members. I've noticed many Roman statues having it as well and they forgot to properly imitate it with the reconstruction attempts.
 

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