Which People, Apart from Slavs, Played the Greatest Role in Yugoslav Ethnogenesis?

Albanoid populations, not neccessarily equating Albanians, but populations related to Albanians.
 
the Slavs started out as a small group and there are a few sublcades of Y-DNA that can be pinpointed as their 'founding fathers'
later they expanded and they admixed with different people in different areas, altering and diversifying their autosomal DNA
I guess it is not possible either to define the whole extant Slavic population by a specific autosomal DNA either
this is not only true for the Slavs, it is like that for all people that started from a small founding population in the past and expanded to a large population today

also there have been many consensual marriages through time among ethnic groups
 
My K15 two population sharing is as follows:

#Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
155.7%Greek+44.3%Estonian_Polish@7.96
252.9%Greek+47.1%Russian_Smolensk@8.27
356.4%Greek+43.6%Belorussian@8.39

So would the Greek be a Paleo-Balkan group of some kind? Because I doubt I have Greek heritage... And the Estonian/Polish/Russian/etc would that be Slavic?

I'm also a little confused because according to my K15 results I look to be much more "Slavic" with the higher Baltic and East Euro, not too sure what "Atlantic" is?

What those percentages mean is that you are heavily admixed. 7.96 for a 2 population mix is pretty bad of a fit. It indicates that your ethnic group is not included among the reference populations so they have to model you using two of their existing reference groups not that you actually come from the union of Greek and Russians or Polish. It might mean that you are a mix of local "Illyrians" and Slavs and maybe even Celtic genes. But yeah you don't fit neatly within any of their reference groups.
 
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There are also many calculators, not all of them are suitable for every group of people. Try some other calculators. I'm not an expert but I just ran my comparison on Gedmatch with Eurogenes K13 for example and these are the first few lines, populations approximation:

1 Croatian @ 3.819975
2 Hungarian @ 5.583797
3 Moldavian @ 7.140141
4 South_Polish @ 8.110185
5 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 8.251887
6 Ukrainian @ 9.721457
7 East_German @ 9.790233
8 Austrian @ 10.142673
9 Serbian @ 11.326592
10 Polish @ 12.053981

Yeah my calculators are funky to say the least... that K15 I showed before plots me closest to Bulgarians, then Romanians, then Croats. I'm not sure why, I guess I have more a mix related to those people than the typical Croats (probably being paleo-balkan of some kind).

My K13 is as follows:
Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1Baltic31.23
2North_Atlantic23.71
3West_Med18.52
4East_Med16.67
5West_Asian4.88
6South_Asian2.3
7Siberian1.46
8Amerindian0.89
9Red_Sea0.35

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Serbian7.17
2Moldavian8.03
3Romanian8.67
4Croatian9.5
5Bulgarian9.83
6Hungarian11.04
7Austrian14.59
8East_German15.29
9Ukrainian_Lviv15.35
10Ukrainian16.04
11South_Polish16.05
12Greek_Thessaly17.28
13Polish19.32
14Southwest_Russian19.35
15North_Italian20.05
16Ukrainian_Belgorod20.06
17West_German20.27
18Russian_Smolensk21.22
19Estonian_Polish21.27
20French21.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
168.1%Ukrainian+31.9%Algerian_Jewish@4.67
252%Ukrainian+48%Greek_Thessaly@4.74
368.3%Ukrainian+31.7%Italian_Jewish@4.88
455.5%Greek_Thessaly+44.5%Estonian_Polish@4.89
561.4%Ukrainian+38.6%West_Sicilian@4.92
660.6%Greek_Thessaly+39.4%Estonian@5
754%Estonian_Polish+46%West_Sicilian@5
862.9%Ukrainian+37.1%Ashkenazi@5.08
961.1%Greek_Thessaly+38.9%Lithuanian@5.17
1056.5%Greek_Thessaly+43.5%Belorussian@5.21
1180.5%Croatian+19.5%Algerian_Jewish@5.22
1276.5%Croatian+23.5%Ashkenazi@5.24
1351.7%West_Sicilian+48.3%Lithuanian@5.25
1465%Ukrainian+35%South_Italian@5.26
1553%Greek_Thessaly+47%Polish@5.29
1667.7%Croatian+32.3%Greek_Thessaly@5.37
1780.8%Croatian+19.2%Italian_Jewish@5.39
1852.1%South_Polish+47.9%Greek_Thessaly@5.41
1952.8%Southwest_Russian+47.2%Tuscan@5.45
2062.4%Ukrainian+37.6%East_Sicilian@5.47

For this one it's also funny how much it changes from the K15 sample, with Ukranian skyrocketing to 68%

Question: would the North Atlantic be Celtic?

I'm getting the feeling I have much more paleo-balkan than the typical Croat/South Slav, not sure how much Celtic I would have in my heritage though. I don't always think about the Celts, which is sad, they were situated in the western Balkans even before the Roman conquest of Illyricum.

Regarding tradition and tattoos, the Celts were also mining in Bosnia, they had a tattooing tradition too. I found something interesting about Liburnes, Illyrian tribe that was living around North Adria and which influenced the Roman shipbuilding. On some Croatian Islands in Kvarner region, there are dialects that contain some 6500 archaic words which are not Slav or Roman in origin but they belong to a paleobalkan substrate, probably Liburnian. Even the grammar in these dialect is quite different from what we know. I didn't find much details yet but it is mentioned here in the Croatian version of Wikipedia:

https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liburni

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Holy hell, I never knew that. Thats pretty incredible! Do the people on those islands maintain any other ancient traditions? And yeah I heard that apparently the early Croats even used the Dalmatian Lembus and Liburnian Liburna type vessels for their own pirate activities. I don't know how true that is, I've only seen one picture of those early Croat ships and they looked more like long rowboats, the old Dalmatian and Liburnian vessels looked much more advanced.[/FONT]
 
Yeah my calculators are funky to say the least... that K15 I showed before plots me closest to Bulgarians, then Romanians, then Croats. I'm not sure why, I guess I have more a mix related to those people than the typical Croats (probably being paleo-balkan of some kind).

My K13 is as follows:
Admix Results (sorted):

#PopulationPercent
1Baltic31.23
2North_Atlantic23.71
3West_Med18.52
4East_Med16.67
5West_Asian4.88
6South_Asian2.3
7Siberian1.46
8Amerindian0.89
9Red_Sea0.35

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Serbian7.17
2Moldavian8.03
3Romanian8.67
4Croatian9.5
5Bulgarian9.83
6Hungarian11.04
7Austrian14.59
8East_German15.29
9Ukrainian_Lviv15.35
10Ukrainian16.04
11South_Polish16.05
12Greek_Thessaly17.28
13Polish19.32
14Southwest_Russian19.35
15North_Italian20.05
16Ukrainian_Belgorod20.06
17West_German20.27
18Russian_Smolensk21.22
19Estonian_Polish21.27
20French21.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
168.1%Ukrainian+31.9%Algerian_Jewish@4.67
252%Ukrainian+48%Greek_Thessaly@4.74
368.3%Ukrainian+31.7%Italian_Jewish@4.88
455.5%Greek_Thessaly+44.5%Estonian_Polish@4.89
561.4%Ukrainian+38.6%West_Sicilian@4.92
660.6%Greek_Thessaly+39.4%Estonian@5
754%Estonian_Polish+46%West_Sicilian@5
862.9%Ukrainian+37.1%Ashkenazi@5.08
961.1%Greek_Thessaly+38.9%Lithuanian@5.17
1056.5%Greek_Thessaly+43.5%Belorussian@5.21
1180.5%Croatian+19.5%Algerian_Jewish@5.22
1276.5%Croatian+23.5%Ashkenazi@5.24
1351.7%West_Sicilian+48.3%Lithuanian@5.25
1465%Ukrainian+35%South_Italian@5.26
1553%Greek_Thessaly+47%Polish@5.29
1667.7%Croatian+32.3%Greek_Thessaly@5.37
1780.8%Croatian+19.2%Italian_Jewish@5.39
1852.1%South_Polish+47.9%Greek_Thessaly@5.41
1952.8%Southwest_Russian+47.2%Tuscan@5.45
2062.4%Ukrainian+37.6%East_Sicilian@5.47

For this one it's also funny how much it changes from the K15 sample, with Ukranian skyrocketing to 68%

Question: would the North Atlantic be Celtic?

I'm getting the feeling I have much more paleo-balkan than the typical Croat/South Slav, not sure how much Celtic I would have in my heritage though. I don't always think about the Celts, which is sad, they were situated in the western Balkans even before the Roman conquest of Illyricum.



[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Holy hell, I never knew that. Thats pretty incredible! Do the people on those islands maintain any other ancient traditions? And yeah I heard that apparently the early Croats even used the Dalmatian Lembus and Liburnian Liburna type vessels for their own pirate activities. I don't know how true that is, I've only seen one picture of those early Croat ships and they looked more like long rowboats, the old Dalmatian and Liburnian vessels looked much more advanced.[/FONT]
Interesting results. Maybe a strong Vlach component or maybe some of your ancestors came from somewhere else during the Austrian-Hungary empire. If your parents would make their own tests, you would now something more but you probably still wouldn't have all the answers.

About the customs on the mentioned islands, I don't know much, only what I read in the Wiki article. Regarding naval history, did you mean this?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narentines?wprov=sfla1
 
I wondered, due to the migration of the south Slavs whether a Dacian component is probable, as opposed to Vlach/native, for the general population.

And yeah I believe that was the reference, though I'm not sure whether there was more to it, I don't have much information on old Croat culture in North America. Wilkes just wrote about the boat connection in his book.
 
do you think E-V13 is Slavic in origin?
or is there some subclade of E-V13 which might be Slavic?
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V13/
It seems to me E-V13 was part of the original population prior to the arrival of the Slavs.
They expanded in the 5th millennium BC.

The Albanians' dominant haplogroup is E-V13, which is historically associated with the Illyrians who were the native inhabitants of the Balkans before the arrival of the Slavic people to the region. The indigenous Illyrian tribes dwelled in what is now Albania. Albanian South Slavic neighbors (the Serbs, Montenegrins, and Macedonian Slavs) are, in comparison with the “indigenous” Albanians, just the “newcomers” whose ethnicity and nationality are much younger than the Albanians.

E-V13 is also high amongst Albanians in North Macedonia (34%) and Albanians in Albania (24%), while it is found at low to moderate frequencies in most Slavic populations. The current distribution of E-V13 might be the result of several demographic expansions from the Balkans during the Balkan Bronze Age, and the Roman era with the so-called "rise of Illyrican soldiery". E-V13 may have spread to Britain with the Roman Army that was composed of men of Balkan ancestry, including Thracians, Illyrians and Dacians (Bird 2007). Alternatively, the Albanians could be descendants of the ancient Dacians who are closely associated with the Romanians. According to some historians, the Albanians, who are living today on the territory of ancient Illyria, came there from the territory of the Roman Province of Moesia Superior (Serbia) that was in the ancient times controlled by the ancient Dacians.



The invasion of Britain by the Roman military in CE 43, and the subsequent occupation of Britain for nearly four centuries, brought thousands of soldiers from the Balkan peninsula to Britain as part of auxiliary units and as regular legionnaires. The presence of Haplogroup E3b1a-M78 among the male populations of present-day Wales, England and Scotland, and its nearly complete absence among the modern male population of Ireland, provide a potential genetic indicator of settlement during the 1st through 4th Centuries CE by Roman soldiers from the Balkan peninsula and their male Romano-British descendants. Haplotype data from several major genetic surveys of Britain and Ireland are examined, analyzed and correlated with historical, epigraphic and archaeological information, with the goal of identifying any significant phylogeographic associations between E3b1a-M78 and those known Romano-British settlements and military posts that were associated specifically with Roman soldiers of Balkan origin. Studies by Cruciani et al. (2007), Perečić et al. (2005), and Marjanovic et al. (2005), examining the distribution of E3b1a-M78 and E3b1a2-V13 in the Balkans, are analyzed further to provide evidence of phylogeographic associations between the E3b1a2 haplotypes identified within the Balkans by these studies and those regions of the Balkans occupied first by the Roman army in antiquity. E3b1a2 is found to be at its highest frequency worldwide in the geographic region corresponding closely to the ancient Roman province of Moesia Superior, a region that today encompasses Kosovo, southern Serbia, northern Macedonia and extreme northwestern Bulgaria. The Balkan studies also provide evidence to support the use of E3b1a-M78 (in the present study) as a close proxy for the presence of E3b1a2-V13 (representing 85% of the parent E3b1a-M78 clade) in both the Balkans and in Britain.
http://www.jogg.info/pages/32/bird.htm
 
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