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Thread: Countries that believe their culture is superior to others

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    Country: Greece





    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    In the case of Greece, previous opinion surveys showing they are also more like other Eastern European countries in acceptance of LGBT+ people, people of other races and cultural backgrounds and so on also lead me to believe that that high percentage of people feeling their culture is superior is not just because of all the compliments Ancient Greece keep receiving from everyone in the world.
    Concerning 'LGBT+' people Greeks responded in a way comparable to Poles, Hungarians, Slovakians but also, for example Israelis. But the percentages are similar to 2006 USA.
    With the 'help' of mass media (if that serves their interests) these views can change in a couple of decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratchet_fan View Post
    Its not ironic at all. Those countries consist of people who aren't ashamed of their race.
    what has one to do with the other? please explain would be interesting to hear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    All in all, people who are really advanced in many things generally stop believing things are so simple and so easy to be labeled, classified and ranked, so they stop believing they are culturally superior to all other peoples as a general assertion.
    I don't know, saying that one can be too proud of their culture, despite what you consider short comings/"unadvanced", seems just as subjective a considering one's culture to be superior. For example, I think the cuisine of my family's region of Italy is "superior" to anything from say India. But that is just a matter of taste, and in matters of taste, there can be no disputes. At the same time, I think things like yoga, are admirable cultural accomplishments. Of which the Barese have no equivalency of. Perhaps it is just a matter of being comfortable with what you are accustomed to. I think the question of the survey itself is too ridged.
    Last edited by Jovialis; 09-08-20 at 22:06.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A. Papadimitriou View Post
    Concerning 'LGBT+' people Greeks responded in a way comparable to Poles, Hungarians, Slovakians but also, for example Israelis. But the percentages are similar to 2006 USA.
    With the 'help' of mass media (if that serves their interests) these views can change in a couple of decades.
    That's exactly why I said Greece in opinion surveys on moral issues (LGBT+, race, religion etc.) look much closer to Eastern European countries that are not exactly beacons of progressivism and forward thinking today, like Hungary and Poland. Of course, as you say, things may change rapidly in such highly controversial and divisive issues, given the proper social and cultural incentives, but I'm talking about what I can see right now. Given that Greece was closer to the Western capitalist world for a longer time and became much wealthier than most of the Balkans at an earlier time, I had expected a different scenario. Or maybe, as Angela also suggested, they are just less trained to be politically correct and more sincere about what they really think instead of answering what they know is the socially admired thing to say/do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ygorcs View Post
    That's exactly why I said Greece in opinion surveys on moral issues (LGBT+, race, religion etc.) look much closer to Eastern European countries that are not exactly beacons of progressivism and forward thinking today, like Hungary and Poland. Of course, as you say, things may change rapidly in such highly controversial and divisive issues, given the proper social and cultural incentives, but I'm talking about what I can see right now. Given that Greece was closer to the Western capitalist world for a longer time and became much wealthier than most of the Balkans at an earlier time, I had expected a different scenario. Or maybe, as Angela also suggested, they are just less trained to be politically correct and more sincere about what they really think instead of answering what they know is the socially admired thing to say/do.
    I Think is tottal different aproach as concern Greeks.

    Greeks may be offencive by words even to other Greeks from other parts etc etc,
    But Greeks do not attack easily others, especially foreigns,
    in a country that has about 8,5 M Greeks, and 1,5 M migrants (Coming back Greeks, foreign workers, refuggees etc,)
    and accepts about 25 to 30 M tourists what can you expect?
    Greeks are drinking, but have you seen foreign tourists Drinking?
    Greeks have sex, but have you seen tourists party?
    etc etc,

    I do not think that Greeks are so proud with their culture the same way as Hungary or Poland, they have attacking stance on that,
    Greeks are proud for their culture rather as a defencive stance against what tourism imports,
    it is tottaly different thing to consider your shelf superior as attacking stance, to save or provide your identity
    than having a defencive stance to save or provide your identity

    As for LGBT-QRSTWZ etc, have you been somewhere on vacations and 'been attacked' (seduce efforts) massively by them,
    about 80% of modern straight Greeks do not care on what you do at your bed, meaning if you Lesbo, Gay, Trans etc
    but 90% get angry even attack when an LGBT have stupid social behavour.
    It is part of our neo-Greek culture,
    be what ever you like at your bed, but at work, social gatherings, public places etc behave normal.

    we are a nation that is dying, but proud we go,
    Greeks hate globalization, yet they accepted it as nessecairy 'evil'.

    just think. living at a country, that accepts 3 times the population as tourism, (with whatever their desires are)
    and at least 1/6 to 1/5 is a first or second generation migrants.

    I have been to an island, where Greeks were speaking to me in English German and a Balkan language,
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

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    Trully have you ever thought why Greeks could share that idea?
    of better culture than others

    lets focus on these 2 subjects

    1. Helladic space every year is acceprting more than 25 M tourists, that is at least 3 times the clear Helladic Greek population.

    2. Greek nation is about 13- 25 M all over the world, but more than 50% do not know the elemantary language.

    1rst generation diaspora 13 000 000
    2nd 3rd generation diaspora 19 000 000
    ομογενεια (eternally living abroad Greeks with Greek consius est 24 000 000)

    low birth, aged country, devastation abroad, import of other nation migrants and refuggees
    so as we see is a nation that lives under the fear of Alienation
    by considering and transmiting your culture better than others is a way to resist nation's Alienation
    it is a defencive stance

    Ειμεθα Εθνος Αναδελφον = A Nation without brothers and sisters

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    Quote Originally Posted by ratchet_fan View Post
    Its not ironic at all. Those countries consist of people who aren't ashamed of their race.
    i guess you are too afraid to answer. i wonder what could be the reason.
    Last edited by Ailchu; 11-08-20 at 14:59.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    I Think is tottal different aproach as concern Greeks.

    in a country that has about 8,5 M Greeks, and 1,5 M migrants (Coming back Greeks, foreign workers, refuggees etc,)
    and accepts about 25 to 30 M tourists what can you expect?
    the migrant numbers are small compared to those of many countries included in the survey who have a lower result. in greece there are around 1 M according to wiki not 1.5 M or is the difference made by greeks who went back to greece?. imo pride definitly has an influence here and it's not just a defence mechanism. i can imagine the high number of tourists might actually have a positve influence on pride too, when greeks see how many people want to see the ancient greek sites.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    the migrant numbers are small compared to those of many countries included in the survey who have a lower result. in greece there are around 1 M according to wiki not 1.5 M or is the difference made by greeks who went back to greece?. imo pride definitly has an influence here and it's not just a defence mechanism. i can imagine the high number of tourists might actually have a positve influence on pride too, when greeks see how many people want to see the ancient greek sites.
    Wiki is refering to non EU migrants, and non Greek migrants
    there are also migrants with Greek origin that lived centuries abroad, and did not even had Greek id card.

    About 24 % of population, and about about 14% of working class are people who came after 1985 (open boarders with ex-USSR),
    Either Greeks either not, Either from EU, either not.

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    45% for Germany is a shame after the horrors of the 20th Century. Maybe the numbers for Western Germany are more like the western neighbors and the ones in eastern Germany more like Eastern Europe.

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    Greece joining the EU was a major mistake not just from financial point of view but from maintaining your culture point of view.

    There was an effort also to "repatriate" Greek descent citizens of the former Soviet Union. That was a major disaster in that there were so many fake documents produced that clerks were overwhelmed or were bribed into accepting them. A lot of those "fake Greeks" then migrated to the EU counties although a substantial number remain. There was a large migration of Albanians and also Bulgarians.

    Then the refugees came...then the 20M/year tourists trampling everything.

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    can you give a source for the 24% migrants in greece? i can only find that 24% of the GDP is produced by migrant workers. as for refugees there are 50'000 in greece, that's not that much and they probably will all leave greece towards central europe sooner or later. or do you mean the greek refugees from anatolia after WWI?
    and i think the wiki is including EU citizens too it's just that there are very few EU migrants in greece so that excluding EU migrants doesn't make such a big difference. the number is from 2011 but it probably didn't change that much since then since most people who enter greece from turkey leave it again and from the EU side the immigration probably didn't increase either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I’d also point out to some posters upthread that in the supposedly enlightened and progressive Norway, almost 60 percent of the population thinks their culture is superior. I wonder what the real total for Sweden would be if immigrants and descendants of immigrants were not included.
    Well, you have to remember that hubris is measured from its distance to actual reality.
    I'm kidding, but I don't think the results would be substantially different. This might be more in the vein of politics, but Sweden does have higher rates of crime, unemployment and a more restricted, "politically correct" public discourse, so there are reasons why some Swedes might answer more modestly than other Scandinavians. That said, Norway is maybe the most nationalistic out of the Scandinavian countries, but there are reasons. The different unions that existed between Sweden, Denmark and Norway in history usually tended towards Norway being treated as a puppet state, and the enmity towards Danish and Swedish rule persisted for a long time after and had a lasting effect on national self-image.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    can you give a source for the 24% migrants in greece? i can only find that 24% of the GDP is produced by migrant workers. as for refugees there are 50'000 in greece, that's not that much and they probably will all leave greece towards central europe sooner or later. or do you mean the greek refugees from anatolia after WWI?
    and i think the wiki is including EU citizens too it's just that there are very few EU migrants in greece so that excluding EU migrants doesn't make such a big difference. the number is from 2011 but it probably didn't change that much since then since most people who enter greece from turkey leave it again and from the EU side the immigration probably didn't increase either.

    you still defy me,

    ok this a newspapper based on Statistics, of 2011
    https://www.kathimerini.gr/782557/ar...o-to-e3wteriko

    at 2011 18,8% of Greek population were migrants and 1rst generation migrants
    consider that devastation and illegal migration flows raise at 2014 just count,

    May I remind you
    1 after 18 years old. and continoue presence, children born here are not consider as migrants
    2 part of ex-USSR, Albania, etc are consider as ομογενεια (permanent living abroad) and do not count as migrants


    meanwhile
    from 2010 to 2020 more than 500 K educated Greeks moved abroad to migration,

    more than 50 % of them had bachelor degree at least.

    BTW
    look the bellow

    https://eacea.ec.europa.eu/national-...eligions-33_el

    810 K are the ones that expect to take Hellenic citizenship or nativity. (today 8%)
    consider from 1985 and count

    can not find the exact post where about 1/4 Greeks today living ih Hellas is, or comes from migration.
    while the same time Greeks had a brain drain to abroad,

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I think you aren't speaking of the today's Greece, that chauvinistic feeling, i think is consecuence of a social crisis of these days, it is the only way they have to feel better, the fachas in Spain and the fachos in France have the same feeling of mitical superiority towards the others countries, a superiority that others countries fail to aknowledge which give to then reasons to be anti-europeans,

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    Quote Originally Posted by jandroral View Post
    I think you aren't speaking of the today's Greece, that chauvinistic feeling, i think is consecuence of a social crisis of these days, it is the only way they have to feel better, the fachas in Spain and the fachos in France have the same feeling of mitical superiority towards the others countries, a superiority that others countries fail to aknowledge which give to then reasons to be anti-europeans,
    No we just want to maintain our culture as it was before the migrations. Now we also wanted cheap labor to clean our hotels and houses and to build our second homes which are conflicting aims. Just like the French and the Italians.
    Last edited by bigsnake49; 12-08-20 at 01:39.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I don't know, saying that one can be too proud of their culture, despite what you consider short comings/"unadvanced", seems just as subjective a considering one's culture to be superior. For example, I think the cuisine of my family's region of Italy is "superior" to anything from say India. But that is just a matter of taste, and in matters of taste, there can be no disputes. At the same time, I think things like yoga, are admirable cultural accomplishments. Of which the Barese have no equivalency of. Perhaps it is just a matter of being comfortable with what you are accustomed to. I think the question of the survey itself is too ridged.
    Better than Yoga, the goal is mastering vision acuity, speed, coordination, anticipation, accuracy, balance, ... and to win :)

    To awaken all senses, in the past, they did it with real knives:


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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    No we just want to maintain our culture as it was before the migrations. Now we also wanted cheap labor to clean our hotels and houses and to build our second homes which are conflicting aims. Just like the French and the Italians.

    but we still do not bear children, our tombstone

    Μηδιζειν, το ζησαμε και το ζουμε ακομα,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    Better than Yoga, the goal is mastering vision acuity, speed, coordination, anticipation, accuracy, balance, ... and to win :)
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post

    To awaken all senses, in the past, they did it with real knives:



    still dance it with real knifes elsewhere
    Last edited by Yetos; 12-08-20 at 10:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    No we just want to maintain our culture as it was before the migrations. Now we also wanted cheap labor to clean our hotels and houses and to build our second homes which are conflicting aims. Just like the French and the Italians.
    but why? did your culture change so drasitcally? a certain amount of change should be allowed.

    if this conservativeness and in particular the opinion that the culture is superior, should be a defense mechanism then you still would have to answer why this defense mechanism starts so fast compared to other countries like for example france, which has way more foreign people.
    Last edited by Ailchu; 12-08-20 at 18:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    did your culture change so drasitcally?
    I think it is largely due to US, and Soviet influences. After the Second World War, these two super-powers were competing for blocs of allies, so they conducted influence campaigns primarily based on the virtues their economic systems. Moreover, ethno-nationalistic leanings, particularly for Europe was considered taboo, because of Nazism, and Fascism being their extreme. Moreover, during the Cold War, the Soviets put pressure on the USA to make social changes, because it pointed to inconsistencies in messages of equality, and the Jim Crow South. This was particularly problematic, when the US tried to court non-white countries. The widespread distribution of the television, putting light on lynchings and race laws, accelerated this. This in turn was projected to the rest of the world, under the influence of these super powers, and later just from the USA. Ironically, today, former-Soviet countries are far more ethno-nationalistic, than those that were part of NATO. I think this is because when governments try to socially engineer morality, to an unwilling populace, there is resentment, and a complete backlash against it. That is why I also think it is futile to "nation build" in the middle east.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    you still defy me,

    ok this a newspapper based on Statistics, of 2011
    https://www.kathimerini.gr/782557/ar...o-to-e3wteriko

    at 2011 18,8% of Greek population were migrants and 1rst generation migrants
    consider that devastation and illegal migration flows raise at 2014 just count,
    "According to the 2011 census, 2,037,196 people (18.8% of the permanent residents) stated that they settled in Greece from a foreign country where they stayed for at least one year."

    so that also include greeks who were born in greece then leave for at least a year and then come back, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    "According to the 2011 census, 2,037,196 people (18.8% of the permanent residents) stated that they settled in Greece from a foreign country where they stayed for at least one year."

    so that also include greeks who were born in greece then leave for at least a year and then come back, right?

    Depends, and not exactly.

    among these 2 M could be Greeks, but no nativity type A, and permanent recidence in Hellas

    nativity type A = born in Greece, live until 18 + military obligations, and one parent at least must have nativity type A, and have only 1 citizenship.
    EU forced us to change the nativity categories,

    that is why title says they came/devastate from abroad,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Depends, and not exactly.

    among these 2 M could be Greeks, but no nativity type A,

    nativity type A = born in Greece, live until 18 + military obligations, and one parent at least must have nativity type A, and have only 1 citizenship.
    EU forced us to change the nativity categories,

    that is why title says 'with origin from abroad'
    why no nativity A? if the requirement is just living abroad for 1 year to belong to those 2M then why should there not be type A people in there too. plus, someone who was born in greece lived in greece for let's say 12 years, so he is not type A native, then moves away for a few years and comes back doesn't really have an origin from abroad imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    why no nativity A? if the requirement is just living abroad for 1 year to belong to those 2M then why should there not be type A people in there too. plus, someone who was born in greece lived in greece for let's say 12 years, so he is not type A native, then moves away for a few years and comes back doesn't really have an origin from abroad imo.
    the nativty types are many,
    nativity type A is considered as permanent Greek from Hellenic continuity, parental, educational, homeland.
    anyway,
    the article is clear, as it says,

    we speak that 18.8% of Hellas were not permanent citizens before,

    an example for instance, are the ones who live in Germany, and on Crimaia etc
    in Germany there are 2 kinds of Greeks, the omogeneia, and the migrants, the first are considered permanent living abroad, the migrants who have work less time than the requested time still considered Greek, the migrants that work more time than requested are also considered permanent to abroad,
    on the other side Crimaea, N Epirus, Greek omogeneia has citizenship , but permanent living abroad, so they are considered as migrants when come to Greece.
    they have Greek citizenship but not measured as permanent Hellenic population

    lets not mix Citizenship, nationality, with permanent population,

    for example at Kazakstan there were 21 villages with Greek origins at 1980's, some went at 1870's and had primary Ottoman identity
    the ones who ask from Greek state took citizenship, but when came to Greece are considered as migrants Greeks from abroad, no matter have the citizenship.

    Students are always excluded, as special category,

    it is not difficult to understand the diffference among permanent living abroad, and permanent living in state.

    BTW
    Nativity has nothing to do with nationality
    and has many types, there were 4-5 types before 80's

    the permanent, non permanent living abroad, has to do with many state issues etc etc, as if the other countryis in EU treaties or not etc etc
    for example
    I Have all Hellenic pappers, citizenship nationality nativity A, taxation number, health insurance number etc etc.
    and at my 30 years I move abroad to work, or dwell,
    I must inform state, military, etc etc etc so to have different obligations, taxation, health etc etc,
    I am temporary resident of abroad,
    after a time I must decide if I want to declare permanent recidence abroad or not,
    so to avoid problems with law, taxation,obligations etc,
    I am not allowed to live abroad and take for example public aid from Greece (although it happened until 2008 crisis) as I am allowed not to be present for my military obligations etc etc

    the ones you see as 1 year at the article, are also citizens that come 1 month per year, so not to lose priviledges etc etc,
    for example came to Hellas, worked, but permanent living abroad, so they came to take their retirements, or taxes etc etc

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