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Thread: New map of gun homicide rates by country

  1. #26
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Maciamo;612450]What you say is very surprising because the very definition of Fundamentalism is taking scriptures literally. And literally does not have two meanings. If the Bible is considered the Word of God, then 100% of what is written must be accepted. That's the most essential difference between fundamentalist and liberal Christians. The former accept all unconditionally. The latter understand that the Bible was written by men and is not the Word of God, and therefore should be 'interpreted' or 'deciphered', either because it has been corrupted by men writing it, or because it is not be taken literally but figuratively. Like you I grew up with a Catholic education (my grandfather almost became a priest), had forced catechism lessons from six years old, then was sent to a Jesuit secondary school. Jesuit priests explained times ans again that for Catholics, unlike Fundamentalist Protestants in the (southern) USA, the Bible should be taken mostly figuratively.

    I personally don't see how it's possible to accept that God created the world in seven days, that evolution isn't a thing, and that miracles do happen, if you also don't accept other parts of the Bible. The passages I mentioned are not even supernatural, and they don't seem to be subject to interpretation either. They are clear rules, just like the Ten Commandments. You say that Fundamentalist Christians don't take the Old Testament literally, but they do when it comes to Creationism and the Ten Commandments. They can't just pick and choose what they like. Otherwise they can't call themselves Christians anymore. They would be practising some form of free religion loosely based on Christianity. At the very best they would be very liberal Christians, not fundamentalist ones.
    I don't think it's my place to tell American Protestant fundamentalists what "taking the scriptures literally" means in their branch of Christianity. They define their own religion, and what I am saying is that they don't include in their definition a belief in those Old Testament rules you listed.

    A few questions for you:

    1) Were crusaders Fundamentalist Christians? If not, were they ever Fundamentalist Christians? If yes, can we really call modern Baptists or Evangelist Christians fundamentalists too?
    A By definition I think not, since Christian fundamentalism in modern parlance means "Protestant", and usually, although not always, means a Protestant sect which is an offshoot of "mainstream" American Protestant congregations. They don't believe in saints, the supremacy of the Pope in any way, most don't have communion services and on and on. It's extremely different from Roman Catholicism.

    2) Fundamentalist Muslims also take the scriptures literally. This is why some become modern Jihadists and suicide bombers. The Quran clearly says to kill the infidels and that Heaven will be the reward. Why would it be different for Fundamentalist Christians? Or are you really saying that they aren't true Fundamentalist Christians in the USA anymore?
    I think there's a big difference between Fundamentalist Muslims and Protestant Fundamentalist Christians in terms of how "literally" they take ancient rules of societal behavior or even religious behavior from their scriptures. Some, not all Muslims, follow them. Indeed, for them, Sharia, or the laws found in their holy books, are supposed to rule civic life. That's not a "thing" in terms of Protestant fundamentalists except to the extent that in some areas they lobby legislators to pass anti-abortion laws, or to allow for the mention of Creationism in schools. None of them follow the dietary rules in Deuteronomy, they don't marry the wife of their dead brother, they can't have multiple wives, and on and on. The Ten Commandments yes, they accept, as do mainstream Protestants and Catholics, but not the minutiae of rules in the OT, or, indeed, the societal structures. It's not my choice; I'm not a Protestant Fundamentalist.

    As for Catholics, yes, the "interpretation" of scripture allows for evolution; I also haven't heard of a priest saying for a long time that Joshua literally blew down the walls of Jericho. However, at every Mass Catholics still recite the Nicene Creed, and if you don't believe it, you're not a Roman Catholic even if you go to Mass. I no longer believe it, so I can't recite it, and so I don't call myself a Catholic. I also know a lot of Catholics who do sincerely believe what they're saying when they recite the Nicene Creed, but they still are what we call here "cafeteria Catholics" nonetheless. So, for example, they practice birth control, although I don't personally know any who would say they support abortion; not if they go to Mass every Sunday etc. People aren't always logical and consistent, I guess.

    The Nicene Creed for those who don't know it.
    https://www.loyolapress.com/catholic.../nicene-creed/


    I really think I'm going to leave the discussion at this point. I'm in the midst of moving and have only responded to the extent I did out of courtesy, but the movers are booked, and I have to be ready, so detailed theological discussions will have to wait for another time if that's ok.


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  2. #27
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    What really surprise i this map
    is the difference among Aegypt and rest Arabic countries
    Russia and Belaruss

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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    Something like this?

    I don't know, it could be, but it's not my lived experience. And, I have little faith in the artistic license of movies.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    I don't know, it could be, but it's not my lived experience. And, I have little faith in the artistic license of movies.

    Legends? reality?




    could be like a Vendetta as a Cretan would say,
    or 'στα μαχαιρια' grabing the knives as we say here in North?

    passion or honour attacks?

    or just fatrias earnings? a kind of medieval Europe feudal wars.

    and last with roberry style and effects, like the old West we see at John wayne and C. Eastwood films

    I think has to do with culture, psychic disorters (drugs - alcohol included), and law officers ability and thinking

    comparing my country, we had much much more gun crimes until 1960's
    and many were passion and 'honour' crimes,
    all the above today are not even 10% of what was at 1930's
    except the armed robbery,
    the only thing that increased the last 2 decades is armed robbery,
    the traditional 'klephtes' thieve, usually the poor or smart guy who steal chickens or supplies or even some money and used only tools
    is replaced by an organised 'ληστης' burglar, who uses AK-47 and may exterminate witnesses.

  5. #30
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I don't think it's my place to tell American Protestant fundamentalists what "taking the scriptures literally" means in their branch of Christianity. They define their own religion, and what I am saying is that they don't include in their definition a belief in those Old Testament rules you listed.
    It's not really up to Fundamentalist Christians to define the words in the English language. Fundamentalist should have the same definition for everyone. Ditto for 'literally'. According to the Oxford dictionary, 'literally' means 'exactly'. You can check other dictionaries, but none of them say it means 'selectively' or 'approximately'.


    I think there's a big difference between Fundamentalist Muslims and Protestant Fundamentalist Christians in terms of how "literally" they take ancient rules of societal behavior or even religious behavior from their scriptures.
    There shouldn't be. Literally means literally, just like exactly doesn't mean approximately.

    Some, not all Muslims, follow them. Indeed, for them, Sharia, or the laws found in their holy books, are supposed to rule civic life. That's not a "thing" in terms of Protestant fundamentalists except to the extent that in some areas they lobby legislators to pass anti-abortion laws, or to allow for the mention of Creationism in schools. None of them follow the dietary rules in Deuteronomy, they don't marry the wife of their dead brother, they can't have multiple wives, and on and on. The Ten Commandments yes, they accept, as do mainstream Protestants and Catholics, but not the minutiae of rules in the OT, or, indeed, the societal structures.
    They cannot have multiple wives because that is illegal. Not only do Fundamentalists lobby legislators about anti-abortion laws and creationism, they also managed to make it illegal for Atheists to hold office in Arkansas, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee and Texas. It is unambiguously written in the Constitution of those states (even it was overruled by the Supreme Court, but that doesn't change the fact that Fundamentalists try to translate the Bible into Law).
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  6. #31
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yetos View Post
    What really surprise i this map
    is the difference among Aegypt and rest Arabic countries
    Russia and Belaruss

    Gun homicides are low in the Maghreb, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Qatar... It is only high in Iraq and Syria because of the war and Palestine because of the tensions with Israel. Not sure about Jordan. That would be the odd one out in the lot.

  7. #32
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    I found an interesting reply on Quora to the question Why does the Bible Belt seem to be more racist than the rest of America?

    There is a link to an article from the Daily Mail titled How many racists does YOUR region have? Map of the US plots where the most hateful internet searches are made. While there is a surprisingly percentage of 'racists' around Ohio, most of the hotspots are in the Bible Belt.



  8. #33
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    As for people not disliking non-Christians in the Bible Belt, it seems that local residents posting on Quora disagree.

    What is the best way to explain what the Bible Belt is and what life is like inside the belt to non-US people?

    "If you are not Christian, and openly Christian -- preferably protestant -- there is little chance of you holding even a local elected office, even down to (sometimes especially) school board or county commission."

    "If you are not religious, you are immediately suspect. You might have a hard time finding work, neighbors may shun you, and your kids will almost certainly be teased and bullied at school."


    As for interpreting the Bible literally and not accepting modern medicine.

    "There are churches in rural areas where they take the Biblical passage about taking up serpents literally. These people handle poisonous snakes as part of their service. Every now and then one of them dies, but that never dims the faith of the remaining congregation.There are churches where followers are taught that faith healing is the only true way, and relying on doctors is a sin, turning one's back on faith in the power of God. A while back, in fact, I was giving a ride to a woman at work whose car had broken down, and she told me how her grandson was up coughing all night, but no matter how hard they prayed he wouldn't stop."

    From What is it like to live in the Bible Belt?

    "Things people in my high school health class believed to be true include that only atheists can get pregnant if they aren't married, that girls shouldn't swim in public pools because of a pregnancy risk, and that women can't get STDS. One young lady insisted she could skip the sex ed unit because her family was Christian. She claimed that her mother was a virgin, as was her grandmother before her, because Christians would never be impure enough to have sex. I wish I was making this up.

    It is illegal for an atheist to hold public office in my state. This is unconstitutional.

    I’ve had teachers, more than one, try to tell us that women are mentally unfit for higher education.
    "

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    As for people not disliking non-Christians in the Bible Belt, it seems that local residents posting on Quora disagree.
    I've never used the site so I don't know, but is Quora a survey of the people of the region, or just people sharing their opinions? That is, how do we know it's representative or if the views are of the people of the region?

  10. #35
    Satyavrata Maciamo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    I've never used the site so I don't know, but is Quora a survey of the people of the region, or just people sharing their opinions? That is, how do we know it's representative or if the views are of the people of the region?
    Quora is probably the most famous and active question-and-answer website on the Web. It was founded by former Facebook employees and has 300 million unique people a month. The site has been praised for the quality of the answers written by its users, many of whom were recognized as experts in their fields. The Quora community includes various well-known people such as Jimmy Wales, Richard A. Muller, Justin Trudeau, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton.

    Users can upvote or downvote any answer to a question and answers with the highest balance towards upvotes are displayed on top. The first answer I posted has 2200+ upvotes for instance. This means that at least as many users agree with it.

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