K7b Dodecad K7b Ancient West Eurasia [By Eupedia Team]

Salento said:
@Pax
I can’t tell if you were analyzing R437 and R850 too.

... it says that R437 and R850 are Italics (local people) and are Eastern shifted, ... no Iberia, nor North Africa.
Click to expand...

I was just talking about R475.

According to the paper, R437 and R850 are a mixture between local people (Latin) and an ancient Near Eastern population, the latter is the reason are eastern shifted.
 
Pax Augusta said:
I was just talking about R475.

According to the paper, R437 and R850 are a mixture between local people (Latin) and an ancient Near Eastern population, the latter is the reason are eastern shifted.
Click to expand...

OK, thanks :)

... the Latins were an Italic tribe, so I called the ‘local people’ (the Latins) Italics :giggle:
 
Here are Middle Late Chalcolithic and Bronze Age Armenian samples, from Lazaridis et al 2016:

Code: 
I1407_ARE12_MLChL_Vayots-Dzor_Armenia,2.59,45.03,0.54,1.09,30.11,20.64,0
I1409_ARE20_MLChL_Vayots-Dzor_Armenia,1.71,52.08,0,2.17,25.36,18.69,0
I1632_ML_ChL_Vayots-Dzor_Armenia,2.77,40.71,0.5,0.85,29.84,25.33,0
I1633_Kura-Araxes_EBA_Gegharkunik_Armenia,4.53,59.53,0,1.98,23.49,10.47,0
I1634_ML_ChL_Vayots-Dzor_Armenia,2.27,42.43,1.46,0.7,27.21,25.93,0
I1635_Kura-Araxes_EBA_Gegharkunik_Armenia,0.35,57.66,0.98,1.18,29.8,10.03,0
I1656_Kura-Araxes_BA_Aragatsotn_Armenia,2.5,49.05,1.57,0.99,21.07,24.82,0
I1658_EBA_Aragatsotn_Armenia,2.39,55.73,0,1.21,28.34,12.34,0

Armenian_ML_ChL_Avrg,2.335,45.0625,0.625,1.2025,28.13,22.6475,0
Kura-Araxes_EBA_Avrg,2.423333333,57.64,0.326666667,1.456666667,27.21,10.94666667,0
I1656_Kura-Araxes_BA,2.5,49.05,1.57,0.99,21.07,24.82,0
 
Salento said:
OK, thanks :)

... the Latins were an Italic tribe, so I called the ‘local people’ (the Latins) Italics :giggle:
Click to expand...

For years there has been a debate among Italian scholars about who is really Italic. According to the narrower linguistic definition, Italics are only Osco-Umbrian speakers and does not include those of Latino-Faliscan languages.



Jovialis said:
If it was Armenian_BA type people, I wonder if they are part of the same migration suggested to have given rise to the Mycenaeans, in Lazaridis' "Eastern Model".
Click to expand...


The Antonio 2019 paper is not without exaggerations and inaccuracies. I am re-reading it better these days. I understand that for R437 is Armenia_LBA and for R850 is Anatolia_IA.SG.

Armenia_LBA may be the average of five samples: RISE396.SG, RISE397.SG, RISE407.SG, RISE408.SG, RISE412.SG. Anatolia_IA.SG may be the average of two samples: MA2197_final.SG, MA2198_final.SG.

R437 and R850 are from the orientalizing period, so one can expect that there were foreigners even among the Latins. R437 on his paternal side is R-P312 and so most likely Latin. R850 is T-L208. In these months I have mainly read archaeology and found it regenerating and refreshing. Now I look better at these samples.

In any case, without the ancient DNA of the Bronze Age from central Italy, and without the ancient DNA of both the Bronze and Iron Age from southern Italy, without the same DNA of the ancient Greeks of Magna Graecia, no conclusions can be drawn.
Based on one-way qpAdm modeling, R437 forms a clade with an individual from Croatia dated to the early Iron Age. In contrast, R850 forms a clade with an individual from Copper Age Anatolia. These two individuals both came from Latin archaeological context, together with four other samples, who can be modeled as two-way mixtures of Copper Age central Italian and Steppe-related ancestries. Two two-way models fit well for R437 and R850: RMPR_CA + Armenia_LBA and RMPR_CA + Anatolia_IA.SG. In both models, the incoming source population is temporally proximate to the Iron Age Italian samples, and their geographic locations point to ancestry input from the Near East. Strikingly, R437 and R850 both carry more ancestry from the incoming source than the preceding local population, highlighting the substantial influence of this “eastern” influence on the genetic makeup of central Italians 25 in Iron Age. Furthermore, the influence of this “eastern” ancestry is not limited to R437 and R850, as R1016 and R1015 can also be modeled as RMPR_CA + Anatolia_IA.SG, and R1016 (but not R1015) as RMPR_CA + Armenia_LBA
Click to expand...
 
Jovialis said:
If it was Armenian_BA type people, I wonder if they are part of the same migration suggested to have given rise to the Mycenaeans, in Lazaridis' "Eastern Model".
Click to expand...

R437 population averages from your post #1

... I obviously deleted R437 from the source.

5w6hY7e.jpg
 
R437 and R850 are undoubtedly more southeast of the other Latins, so there must be a reason. But the samples chosen by paper are not without problems. I found some in the G25 and modeled them. One of the two samples of Anatolia_IA is low resolution and comes out similar to a Bronze age Balkan. :LOL:



RuY3JwX.png


rg06SKq.png
 
Pax Augusta said:
For years there has been a debate among Italian scholars about who is really Italic. According to the narrower linguistic definition, Italics are only Osco-Umbrian speakers and does not include those of Latino-Faliscan languages.






The Antonio 2019 paper is not without exaggerations and inaccuracies. I am re-reading it better these days. I understand that for R437 is Armenia_LBA and for R850 is Anatolia_IA.SG.

Armenia_LBA may be the average of five samples: RISE396.SG, RISE397.SG, RISE407.SG, RISE408.SG, RISE412.SG. Anatolia_IA.SG may be the average of two samples: MA2197_final.SG, MA2198_final.SG.

R437 and R850 are from the orientalizing period, so one can expect that there were foreigners even among the Latins. R437 on his paternal side is R-P312 and so most likely Latin. R850 is T-L208. In these months I have mainly read archaeology and found it regenerating and refreshing. Now I look better at these samples.

In any case, without the ancient DNA of the Bronze Age from central Italy, and without the ancient DNA of both the Bronze and Iron Age from southern Italy, without the same DNA of the ancient Greeks of Magna Graecia, no conclusions can be drawn.
Click to expand...

Here are the coordinates for the Armenian_LBA samples, using those samples:

Code: 
RISE396_Kapan_Armenia_2879_years,0,48.14,0,0,18.79,33.07,0
RISE397_Kapan_Armenia_2807_years,0.05,43.64,0,0.03,18.79,37.49,0
RISE407_Norabak_Armenia_2827_years,0,49.78,0,0.98,15.04,34.2,0
RISE408_Norabak_Armenia_2908_years,1.44,50.52,0,0,11.16,36.88,0
RISE412_Noratus_Armenia_2885_years,0,49.16,0,0,24.74,26.1,0

Armenian_LBA_Avrg,0.298,48.248,0,0.202,17.704,33.548,0
 
Latest sets and my results

All individual samples:

8K4hhbG.png


Code: 
C1_Mesolithic:R11_Grotta_Continenza,0.79,0,0.46,0.58,0,97.6,0.57
C1_Mesolithic:R15_Grotta_Continenza,0,0.01,0,28.42,0.01,71.56,0
C1_Mesolithic:R7_Grotta_Continenza,0,0,0.33,1.12,0,98.28,0.26
C2_Chalcolithic:R1014_(Rinaldone_Gaudo)_Monte_San_Biagio,0,0,0,0,47.2,52.8,0
C2_Chalcolithic:R4_Grotta_Continenza,0,0.48,0,0.59,47.55,51.25,0.12
C2_Chalcolithic:R5_Grotta_Continenza,0,0,0,0.45,48.53,51.02,0
C2_Late_Antiquity_Sardinian-like:R104_Crypta_Balbi,0,0.69,0,0.54,44.76,54.01,0
C2_Neolithic:R10_Grotta_Continenza,0,6.54,0,0.05,55.54,37.86,0
C2_Neolithic:R16_Ripabianca_di_Monterado,0,5.46,0,0.15,47.5,46.89,0
C2_Neolithic:R17_Ripabianca_di_Monterado,0,6.7,0,0.14,49.79,43.37,0
C2_Neolithic:R18_Ripabianca_di_Monterado,0,11.44,0,0.21,50.59,37.77,0
C2_Neolithic:R19_Ripabianca_di_Monterado,0,6.66,0,0.15,48.99,44.2,0
C2_Neolithic:R2_Grotta_Continenza,0,5.95,0,0.15,54.26,39.64,0
C2_Neolithic:R3_Grotta_Continenza,0,7.63,0,0.39,53.79,38.18,0
C2_Neolithic:R6_Grotta_Continenza,0,0,0,0.38,41.53,57.88,0.22
C2_Neolithic:R8_Grotta_Continenza,0,8.14,0,0.28,50.89,40.68,0
C2_Neolithic:R9_Grotta_Continenza,0,7.93,0,0.12,55.03,36.93,0
C3_Imperial_North_African:R132_Marcellino_&_Pietro,0,15.61,0,10.52,46.46,25.56,1.84
C3_Imperial_North_African:R80_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis,0,20.1,0,5.63,44.2,29.73,0.35
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R126_Casale_del_Dolce,0,36.53,0,0.73,44.51,17.41,0.82
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R1547_Monterotondo,0.87,35.06,0,2.16,48.98,12.74,0.19
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R1550_Monterotondo,1.1,36.97,0.08,2,46.53,12.46,0.87
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R1551_Monterotondo,0,48.73,0,0.96,37.65,12.66,0
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R38_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis,0.18,40.35,0.22,0.75,42.9,15.61,0
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R41_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis,0.9,30.13,0,1.31,42.4,23.49,1.77
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R42_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis,0.18,37.18,0,2.59,48.29,10.81,0.95
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R67_ANAS,2.71,45.34,0,2.31,37.51,11.76,0.37
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R68_ANAS,1.31,45.91,0,1.62,41.69,9.47,0
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R70_ANAS,0,35.53,0,1.22,45.68,17.39,0.19
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R73_ANAS,0.84,31.64,0,2.61,42.51,22.4,0
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R75_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis,0.5,33.64,0,1.36,42.95,21.54,0
C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R76_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis,0,37.9,0,1.05,41.93,19.12,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R114_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis,0,30.91,0,0.89,36.22,31.97,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R115_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis,0.22,32.09,0.23,0.5,39.2,27.76,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R123_Casale_del_Dolce,0,33.49,0,0.11,37.92,27.61,0.87
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R128_Casale_del_Dolce,0,37.23,0,0.01,38.64,24.11,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R130_Marcellino_&_Pietro,0.77,33.72,0,1.3,43.49,20.72,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R133_Marcellino_&_Pietro,0,30.79,0.18,0.34,39.91,27.62,1.15
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R134_Marcellino_&_Pietro,0,32.03,0,1.76,40.67,25.33,0.2
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1543_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese,0.07,32.29,0,1.71,39.42,26.49,0.02
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1545_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese,0.59,31.99,0,0.59,39.49,27.15,0.2
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1548_Monterotondo,0,34.25,0,0.39,36.62,28.74,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R39_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis,0,31.33,0.09,0.62,39.6,27.97,0.38
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R40_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis,0.21,31.87,0.04,0.69,40.77,26.42,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R43_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis,0,34.79,0,0,41.5,23.71,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R44_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis,0,30.69,0,0.14,43.23,25.93,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R45_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis,0.55,23.41,0,2.53,44.25,29.11,0.16
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R50_Centocelle_Necropolis,0.57,29.8,0,1.25,37.36,30.86,0.17
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R66_ANAS,0,32.42,0,0.42,39.89,26.62,0.66
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R69_ANAS,0,31.11,0.29,0.17,35.32,32.87,0.24
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R71_ANAS,0,37.62,0,0.17,42.51,19.7,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R72_ANAS,0,35.49,0,0.47,41.16,22.88,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R78_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis,0,36.33,0,0.3,41.85,21.52,0
C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R81_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis,1.36,30.55,0.01,0.33,41.59,26.15,0
C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean:R850_(Latini)_Ardea,0,32.01,0,1.09,39.03,27.2,0.67
C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia,0,25.66,0,1.76,35.72,36.86,0
C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R30_Mausole_di_Augusto,0,28.3,0,1.75,38.42,30.12,1.41
C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R32_Mausole_di_Augusto,0.23,25.14,0,1.85,35.59,36.87,0.31
C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R34_Mausole_di_Augusto,0,31.05,0,1.68,40.25,26.72,0.3
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R111_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis,0,21.96,0,0,32.52,45.52,0
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R113_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis,0,24.52,0,0.25,35.14,40.05,0.04
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R125_Casale_del_Dolce,0,30.93,0,0.6,36.93,31.53,0
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis,0.04,25.51,0,0.98,35.82,36.93,0.72
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R136_Marcellino_&_Pietro,0.51,29.28,0,0.57,36.08,33.56,0
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R137_Marcellino_&_Pietro,0,30.43,0,0.83,37.25,31.12,0.38
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R1544_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese,0.07,29.8,0.54,0.28,35.16,34.14,0
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R1549_Monterotondo,0.67,24.58,0,1.12,31.58,41.73,0.33
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R436_Palestrina,0.54,29.83,0,0.15,35.09,33.86,0.54
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R47_Centocelle_Necropolis,0,26.95,0.74,1.05,35.2,35.88,0.19
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R49_Centocelle_Necropolis,0,27.96,0,0.92,34.61,36.51,0
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R51_Centocelle_Necropolis,0,31.02,0.08,0.11,37.58,30.49,0.71
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R835_Civitanova_Marche,0.11,24.16,0,0.12,33.93,39.63,2.05
C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R836_Civitanova_Marche,0,27.76,0,0.14,33.05,39.05,0
C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata,0,25.22,0,0.48,36.72,37.58,0
C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R107_Crypta_Balbi,1,22.07,0,0.21,36.51,40.21,0
C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia,0.4,27.92,0,0.78,35.92,34.98,0
C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R118_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia,0,22.5,0.52,0.67,35.22,41.09,0
C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R120_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia,0,20.48,0.15,1.32,34.13,43.93,0
C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R121_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia,0.05,24.8,0,1.04,33.36,40.76,0
C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R35_Celio,1.46,24.3,0,1.16,37.13,35.96,0
C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R36_Celio,0,21.64,0,0.74,31.71,45.91,0
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1283_Cancelleria,0,20.54,0,0.87,34.09,44.5,0
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1285_Cancelleria,0.46,18.93,0,0.73,33.78,45.83,0.27
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1287_Cancelleria,0,18.77,0,0.98,34.39,45.59,0.27
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna,0,25.02,0,0.97,34.67,38.82,0.52
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R52_Villa_Magna,0,23.67,0,0.77,36.07,38.8,0.68
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R53_Villa_Magna,0.18,28.92,0,0.16,36.66,33.54,0.54
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R54_Villa_Magna,0.38,27.27,0,0.97,33.65,36.95,0.77
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna,0,25.78,0.42,1.28,36.25,36.27,0
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R57_Villa_Magna,0,27.53,0,0.55,34.21,37.23,0.49
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R58_Villa_Magna,0,26.26,0,0.95,36.12,36.68,0
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R59_Villa_Magna,0,24.53,0,1.17,35.37,38.06,0.87
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R60_Villa_Magna,0,24.47,0.74,1.65,32.9,40.25,0
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R64_Villa_Magna,0,29.08,1.25,1.04,33.79,34.84,0
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R65_Villa_Magna,0,28.17,0,0.8,35.87,35.17,0
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R969_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti,0.5,24.1,0.22,0.68,33.51,41,0
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R970_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti,0,25.14,0,0.9,31.19,42.14,0.63
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R973_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti,0,27.6,0.29,0.88,33.39,37.84,0
C7_Imperial_European:R116_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis,0.13,8.74,0.13,0.16,22.12,68.26,0.46
C7_Imperial_European:R37_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis,0,2.49,0.83,0.48,25.67,70.53,0
C7_Iron_Age_European:R1_(Protovillanovan)_Martinsicuro,0,17.8,1.55,0.39,26.65,53.61,0
C7_Iron_Age_European:R1015_(Villanovan)_Veio_Grotta_Gramiccia,0,9.46,0,0,32.43,57.92,0.19
C7_Iron_Age_European:R1016_(Latini)_Castel_di_Decima,0.26,11.65,0.39,0,30.11,56.91,0.69
C7_Iron_Age_European:R1021_(Latini)_Boville_Ernica,0,10.02,0,0.04,28.76,61.18,0
C7_Iron_Age_European:R435_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Colombella,0,9.15,0.25,0.54,25.13,64.93,0
C7_Iron_Age_European:R473_(Etruscan)_Civitavecchia,0,9.18,0,0.43,31.83,58.57,0
C7_Iron_Age_European:R474_(Etruscan)_Civitavecchia,0,15.72,0.14,0.99,27.26,55.9,0
C7_Iron_Age_European:R851_(Latini)_Ardea,0,8.52,0,0.43,28.5,62.54,0
C7_Late_Antiquity_European:R105_Crypta_Balbi,0,14.99,0.15,0.98,26.79,56.39,0.69
C7_Late_Antiquity_European:R106_Crypta_Balbi,2.53,15.96,0,0.44,16.49,64.49,0.09
C7_Late_Antiquity_European:R108_Crypta_Balbi,0,14.64,0,0.21,21.46,62.41,1.27
C7_Late_Antiquity_European:R109_Crypta_Balbi,0,11.76,0.04,0,27.46,60.22,0.52
C7_Late_Antiquity_European:R110_Crypta_Balbi,0,12.47,0.71,0.52,27.97,57.48,0.85
C7_Late_Antiquity_European:R31_Mausole_di_Augusto,0,9.85,1.27,0.42,14.31,74.15,0
C7_Late_Antiquity_European:R33_Mausole_di_Augusto,0.21,15.6,0,0.38,28.34,54.96,0.52
C7_Medieval_European:R1219_Cancelleria,0.35,13.1,1.44,0.59,16.98,67.54,0
C7_Medieval_European:R1220_Cancelleria,0.74,14.96,0,1.2,20.23,62.52,0.35
C7_Medieval_European:R1221_Cancelleria,1.58,14.03,0.27,0.1,23.68,59.46,0.88
C7_Medieval_European:R1224_Cancelleria,1.6,14.43,0,0.7,20.88,62.4,0
C7_Medieval_European:R1286_Cancelleria,0,12.29,1.48,0.29,13.41,72.33,0.21
C7_Medieval_European:R1288_Cancelleria,0,9.78,0.67,0.93,16.78,70.06,1.78
C7_Medieval_European:R1289_Cancelleria,1.82,8.55,0.03,1,26.5,62.1,0
C7_Medieval_European:R55_Villa_Magna,0,17.39,0,0.38,27.17,54.69,0.36
C7_Medieval_European:R61_Villa_Magna,0.42,11.36,1.07,0.86,25.42,60.68,0.19
C7_Medieval_European:R62_Villa_Magna,2.03,12.68,0.58,0.17,17.79,66.73,0
C7_Medieval_European:R63_Villa_Magna,0.45,6.79,0,1.12,28.16,62.5,0.99
France_BA:BIS130,0,13.82,1.77,0,15.32,69.09,0
France_BA:BIS385,0,10.75,4.28,0.6,14.17,70.2,0
France_BA:EUG11,0,1.51,0,1.23,26.37,70.9,0
France_BA:NIED,0,6.64,0,1.22,26.31,65.23,0.6
France_BA:OBE3626-1,0,9.06,2.84,0,9.34,77.96,0.8
France_BA:OBE3722,0.88,16.47,0.55,0,9.36,72.54,0.2
France_BA:PIR3037AB,0,1.91,0,1.27,31.54,65.28,0
France_BA:PIR3116B,0,10.73,1.13,0.39,17.2,70.55,0
France_BA:PSS4170,0,3.57,0,0.53,21.38,74.12,0.39
France_BA:QUIN58,0.88,2.88,0.04,0.09,29.12,65.28,1.71
France_BA:QUIN234,0,0.76,0,0,26.91,72.33,0
France_BA:RIX2,1.24,7.58,0,0.66,22.56,67.96,0
France_BA:RIX4,2.31,6.97,0,1.08,15.43,74.21,0
France_BA:RIX15,3.18,8.59,0,0.3,16.38,71.56,0
France_IA:ATT26,2.01,10.1,0,1.75,12.53,73.6,0
France_IA:BES1248,0.19,6.96,1.13,0.32,11.14,79.76,0.5
France_IA:BFM265,1.34,10.02,0,0.31,18.61,69.73,0
France_IA:COL11,4.19,8.14,0,0.97,10.61,76.09,0
France_IA:COL153A,0,16.09,0,0,17.62,66.29,0
France_IA:COL153i,0,7.93,2.61,0.76,19.17,67.76,1.77
France_IA:ERS86,0,12.54,0,0.96,20.7,65.79,0
France_IA:ERS88,0,14.26,0,0,27.28,58.47,0
France_IA:ERS1164,0,15.16,1.14,0.33,15.94,66.47,0.96
France_IA:Jeb8,3.32,5.77,0.19,0.39,20.43,69.9,0
France_IA:NOR2B6,0,10.78,0.92,0.55,24.79,62.96,0
France_IA:NOR3-6,2.91,7.97,0,0,17.24,71.35,0.52
France_IA:NOR3-15,0,13.57,0.64,0.7,25.53,59.08,0.48
France_IA:NOR4,0.23,4.01,0,0,26.28,67.7,1.78
France_IA:PECH5,0,0,0,0,23.83,73.29,2.88
France_IA:PEY53,0,9.84,0,1.55,16.45,70.31,1.85
Minoan_Lasithi:I0070,0,22.65,0,0.08,51.64,25.42,0.21
Minoan_Lasithi:I0071,0,23.67,0,0.38,47.43,28.52,0
Minoan_Lasithi:I0073,0,24.27,0,0.53,49.25,25.95,0
Minoan_Lasithi:I0074,0,22.21,0,0.35,49.11,28.33,0
Minoan_Lasithi:I9005,0,22.61,0,0.55,50.99,25.86,0
Anatolian_BA:I2495,0,31.33,0,2.71,40.93,24.35,0.68
Anatolian_BA:I2499,0,33.62,0.18,1.4,40.53,24.28,0
Anatolian_BA:I2683,0,34.82,0.13,2.92,41.95,19.74,0.43
I2937_Greece_Neolithic,0,13.15,0,2.15,49.96,33.94,0.8
Mycenaean:I9006,0,26.27,0,0.49,39.99,32.71,0.55
Mycenaean:I9010,0.36,15.84,0,0.65,46.51,36.54,0.09
Mycenaean:I9033,0.49,18.69,0.88,3.04,37.28,39.38,0.24
Mycenaean:I9041,0,21.6,0,0.73,40.65,37.02,0
Minoan_Odigitria:I9127,0,19.26,0,0.86,51.08,28.8,0
Minoan_Odigitria:I9128,0,12.13,2.52,0,52.68,31.22,1.45
Minoan_Odigitria:I9129,0,12.99,0,0,51.08,35.93,0
Minoan_Odigitria:I9130,0,21.69,0,0,48.8,29.51,0
Minoan_Odigitria:I9131,0,26.94,0,0,49.97,23.1,0
Beaker_N_Italy_BA:I1979,0,12.35,0.11,0,33.15,54.39,0
Beaker_N_Italy_BA:I2477,0,0,0,0.76,45.49,53.22,0.52
Beaker_N_Italy_BA:I2478,0.28,8.17,0,0.85,24.29,65.44,0.97
Beaker_Sicily_BA:I4930,0,16.89,0.31,1.2,49.94,31.66,0
Armenian_LBA:RISE396,0,48.14,0,0,18.79,33.07,0
Armenian_LBA:RISE397,0.05,43.64,0,0.03,18.79,37.49,0
Armenian_LBA:RISE407,0,49.78,0,0.98,15.04,34.2,0
Armenian_LBA:RISE408,1.44,50.52,0,0,11.16,36.88,0
Armenian_LBA:RISE412,0,49.16,0,0,24.74,26.1,0
Armenian_MLChL:I1407,2.59,45.03,0.54,1.09,30.11,20.64,0
Armenian_MLChL:I1409,1.71,52.08,0,2.17,25.36,18.69,0
Armenian_MLChL:I1632,2.77,40.71,0.5,0.85,29.84,25.33,0
Armenian_EBA_Kura-Araxes:I1633,4.53,59.53,0,1.98,23.49,10.47,0
Armenian_MLChL:I1634,2.27,42.43,1.46,0.7,27.21,25.93,0
Armenian_EBA_Kura-Araxes:I1635,0.35,57.66,0.98,1.18,29.8,10.03,0
Armenian_BA_Kura-Araxes:I1656,2.5,49.05,1.57,0.99,21.07,24.82,0
Armenian_EBA:I1658,2.39,55.73,0,1.21,28.34,12.34,0

Averages of populations:

TS0iMM2.png


Code: 
C1_Central_Italian_Mesolithic,0.263333333,0.003333333,0.263333333,10.04,0.003333333,89.14666667,0.276666667
C2_Neolithic/Sardinian-like_Average,0,4.83,0,0.257142857,49.71071429,45.17714286,0.024285714
C3_North_African_Average,0,17.855,0,8.075,45.33,27.645,1.095
C4_Near_Eastern_Average,0.660769231,38.07,0.023076923,1.59,43.34846154,15.91230769,0.396923077
C5_Eastern_Mediterranean_Average,0.169259259,31.71703704,0.031111111,0.845185185,39.61555556,27.37074074,0.24962963
C6_Mediterranean_Average,0.163333333,25.62564103,0.126923077,0.74025641,34.78333333,38.30589744,0.256410256
C7_European_Average,0.432857143,11.90571429,0.392857143,0.491071429,24.22428571,62.195,0.358571429
France_IA_Avrg,0.886875,9.57125,0.414375,0.536875,19.259375,68.659375,0.67125
France_BA_Avrg,0.606428571,7.231428571,0.757857143,0.526428571,20.09928571,70.515,0.264285714
Minoan_Lasithi_Avrg,0,23.082,0,0.378,49.684,26.816,0.042
Anatolian_BA_Avrg,0,33.25666667,0.103333333,2.343333333,41.13666667,22.79,0.37
I2937_Greece_Neolithic,0,13.15,0,2.15,49.96,33.94,0.8
Mycenaean_Avrg,0.2125,20.6,0.22,1.2275,41.1075,36.4125,0.22
Minoan_Odigitria_Avrg,0,18.602,0.504,0.172,50.722,29.712,0.29
Beaker_N_Italy_BA_Avrg,0.093333333,6.84,0.036666667,0.536666667,34.31,57.68333333,0.496666667
Beaker_Sicily_BA:I4930,0,16.89,0.31,1.2,49.94,31.66,0
Armenian_ML_ChL_Avrg,2.335,45.0625,0.625,1.2025,28.13,22.6475,0
Kura-Araxes_EBA_Avrg,2.423333333,57.64,0.326666667,1.456666667,27.21,10.94666667,0
I1656_Kura-Araxes_BA,2.5,49.05,1.57,0.99,21.07,24.82,0
Armenian_LBA_Avrg,0.298,48.248,0,0.202,17.704,33.548,0

Averages of populations by era:

deHRSxH.png


Code: 
C1_C_Italian_Mesolithic_Avrg,0.263333333,0.003333333,0.263333333,10.04,0.003333333,89.14666667,0.276666667
C2_Neolithic_Avrg,0,5.148461538,0,0.235384615,50.09153846,44.49769231,0.026153846
C2_Late_Antiquity_Sardinian-like(R104),0,0.69,0,0.54,44.76,54.01,0
C3_Imperial_Roman_North_African_Avrg,0,17.855,0,8.075,45.33,27.645,1.095
C4_Imperial_Roman_Near_Eastern_Avrg,0.660769231,38.07,0.023076923,1.59,43.34846154,15.91230769,0.396923077
C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean(R850),0,32.01,0,1.09,39.03,27.2,0.67
C5_Imperial_Roman_Eastern_Mediterranean_Avrg,0.197272727,32.46363636,0.038181818,0.667727273,40.02772727,26.42,0.184090909
C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean_Avrg,0.046,28.432,0,1.626,37.802,31.554,0.538
C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean(R437),0,25.22,0,0.48,36.72,37.58,0
C6_Imperial_Roman_Mediterranean_Avrg,0.138571429,27.47785714,0.097142857,0.508571429,34.99571429,36.42857143,0.354285714
C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean_Avrg,0.36375,23.61625,0.08375,0.8,35.0875,40.0525,0
C6_Medieval_Mediterranean_Avrg,0.089411765,25.04588235,0.171764706,0.902941176,34.46529412,39.03,0.296470588
C7_Imperial_Roman_European_Avrg,0.065,5.615,0.48,0.32,23.895,69.395,0.23
C7_Iron_Age_European_Avrg,0.0325,11.4375,0.29125,0.3525,28.83375,58.945,0.11
C7_Late_Antiquity_European_Avrg,0.391428571,13.61,0.31,0.421428571,23.26,61.44285714,0.562857143
C7_Medieval_European_Avrg,0.817272727,12.30545455,0.503636364,0.667272727,21.54545455,63.72818182,0.432727273
France_IA_Avrg,0.886875,9.57125,0.414375,0.536875,19.259375,68.659375,0.67125
France_BA_Avrg,0.606428571,7.231428571,0.757857143,0.526428571,20.09928571,70.515,0.264285714
Minoan_Lasithi_Avrg,0,23.082,0,0.378,49.684,26.816,0.042
Anatolian_BA_Avrg,0,33.25666667,0.103333333,2.343333333,41.13666667,22.79,0.37
I2937_Greece_Neolithic,0,13.15,0,2.15,49.96,33.94,0.8
Mycenaean_Avrg,0.2125,20.6,0.22,1.2275,41.1075,36.4125,0.22
Minoan_Odigitria_Avrg,0,18.602,0.504,0.172,50.722,29.712,0.29
Beaker_N_Italy_BA_Avrg,0.093333333,6.84,0.036666667,0.536666667,34.31,57.68333333,0.496666667
Beaker_Sicily_BA:I4930,0,16.89,0.31,1.2,49.94,31.66,0
Armenian_ML_ChL_Avrg,2.335,45.0625,0.625,1.2025,28.13,22.6475,0
Kura-Araxes_EBA_Avrg,2.423333333,57.64,0.326666667,1.456666667,27.21,10.94666667,0
I1656_Kura-Araxes_BA,2.5,49.05,1.57,0.99,21.07,24.82,0
Armenian_LBA_Avrg,0.298,48.248,0,0.202,17.704,33.548,0
 
Last edited:
The Armenians, a population inhabiting the region in West Asia known as the Armenian Highland, has been argued to show a remarkable degree of population continuity since the Early Neolithic. Here we test the degree of continuity of this population as well as its plausible origin, by collating modern and ancient genomic data, and adding a number of novel contemporary genomes. We show that Armenians have indeed remained unadmixed through the Neolithic and at least until the first part of the Bronze Age, and fail to find any support for historical suggestions by Herodotus of an input from the Balkans. However, we do detect a genetic input of Sardinian-like ancestry during or just after the Middle-Late Bronze Age. A similar input at approximately the same time was detected in East Africa, suggesting large-scale movement both North and South of the Middle East. Whether such large-scale population movement was result of climatic or cultural changes is unclear, as well as the true source of gene flow remains an open question that needs to be addressed in future ancient DNA studies.

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.24.168781v1.full.pdf

V3WF5Cm.png
 
Pax Augusta said:
For years there has been a debate among Italian scholars about who is really Italic. According to the narrower linguistic definition, Italics are only Osco-Umbrian speakers and does not include those of Latino-Faliscan languages.


The Antonio 2019 paper is not without exaggerations and inaccuracies. I am re-reading it better these days. I understand that for R437 is Armenia_LBA and for R850 is Anatolia_IA.SG.

Armenia_LBA may be the average of five samples: RISE396.SG, RISE397.SG, RISE407.SG, RISE408.SG, RISE412.SG. Anatolia_IA.SG may be the average of two samples: MA2197_final.SG, MA2198_final.SG.

R437 and R850 are from the orientalizing period, so one can expect that there were foreigners even among the Latins. R437 on his paternal side is R-P312 and so most likely Latin. R850 is T-L208. In these months I have mainly read archaeology and found it regenerating and refreshing. Now I look better at these samples.

In any case, without the ancient DNA of the Bronze Age from central Italy, and without the ancient DNA of both the Bronze and Iron Age from southern Italy, without the same DNA of the ancient Greeks of Magna Graecia, no conclusions can be drawn.
Click to expand...
Linguistic aside, for Italics I meant the Ancient Italians, and the Latins are Italians.

imho R437 could easily match a Modern Pugliese, ... as shown in the K36 map, and other results, (in mine and in other members),

Who knows, maybe most 300 BC Latins were like R437 :)


pg4nN1b.gif



https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/38222-Mytrueancestry-com?p=603701&viewfull=1#post603701
 
Last edited:
Pax Augusta said:
R437 and R850 are undoubtedly more southeast of the other Latins, so there must be a reason. But the samples chosen by paper are not without problems. I found some in the G25 and modeled them. One of the two samples of Anatolia_IA is low resolution and comes out similar to a Bronze age Balkan. :LOL:



RuY3JwX.png


rg06SKq.png
Click to expand...
Indeed I find it highly unlikely it was straight from Anatolia, and I think that it is best to see it as a proxy for an actual balkan population (and I noticed the kind of similarity between Anatolian bronze age samples and some balkan ones as well).
 
I6ZWkwE.png


Armenia in the Bronze-Age looked to be a quarter Anatolian_N; a little more than a quarter EHG+Steppe_Eneolithic; almost half Iran_N, with some small traces of Morrocan_HG. As modeled from the Antonio M. et al 2019 admixture chart.
 
I decided to rename this to Ancient West Eurasia, as I will be converting more into Dodecad K7b format.

Here are ancient Hungarian samples from C Gamba et al. 2014

Code: 
BR1_Hungary_2080BC,0,0,0,0,9.8,90.2,0
BR2_Hungary_1180BC,0,9.68,0,0.37,19.88,70.08,0
CO1_Hungary_2810BC,0,0,0,0.11,41.83,58.06,0
IR1_Hungary_900BC,0,24.38,5.26,0,7.1,63.26,0
KO1_Hungary_5710BC,0.17,0,0,0.14,0,99.69,0
KO2_Hungary_5640BC,0,6.42,0,0,50.75,42.83,0
NE1_Hungary_5230BC,0,7,0,0.21,48.84,43.96,0
NE2_Hungary_5140BC,0,0,0,0,39.08,60.92,0
NE3_Hungary_5130BC,0,0,0,0,44.78,55.22,0
NE4_Hungary_5130BC,0,0.57,0,0,40.95,58.47,0
NE5_Hungary_5120BC,0,0.22,0,0.1,50.07,49.61,0
NE6_Hungary_5090BC,0,0,0,0,53.09,46.91,0
NE7_Hungary_4420BC,0,0,0,0.02,45.22,54.76,0
 
Thanks Jovialis

Distance to:
Duarte
16.62892360BR2_Hungary_1180BC
17.44922348NE2_Hungary_5140BC
18.12193974NE4_Hungary_5130BC
19.00798779CO1_Hungary_2810BC
21.44162774NE3_Hungary_5130BC
21.83864923NE7_Hungary_4420BC
26.39967235NE1_Hungary_5230BC
26.81601014NE5_Hungary_5120BC
27.20764231IR1_Hungary_900BC
28.64011871KO2_Hungary_5640BC
30.31425407NE6_Hungary_5090BC
39.43750753BR1_Hungary_2080BC
52.06855865KO1_Hungary_5710BC


Dodecad K7b
Target: Duarte
Distance: 7.8050% / 7.80500116
35.4BR2_Hungary_1180BC
32.6NE1_Hungary_5230BC
22.8IR1_Hungary_900BC
7.2NE5_Hungary_5120BC
1.4CO1_Hungary_2810BC
0.6KO1_Hungary_5710BC

All individual samples compiled from posts #50 and #56

iIDTFP1.jpg

wUvy2Pa.jpg


 
Distance to:
TorzioK7
17.56952475BR2_Hungary_1180BC
22.31927194NE2_Hungary_5140BC
22.33331816IR1_Hungary_900BC
22.59293252NE4_Hungary_5130BC
23.54891293CO1_Hungary_2810BC
25.49282056NE3_Hungary_5130BC
25.82686005NE7_Hungary_4420BC
27.54088234NE1_Hungary_5230BC
29.81315649KO2_Hungary_5640BC
30.05132110NE5_Hungary_5120BC
33.22562716NE6_Hungary_5090BC
42.03742499BR1_Hungary_2080BC
54.13179195KO1_Hungary_5710BC





Target: TorzioK7
Distance: 3.1726% / 3.17259510 | ADC: 0.25x
48.6IR1_Hungary_900BC
41.6NE1_Hungary_5230BC
9.8BR2_Hungary_1180BC

 
R437-Latin and Salento
... (credit to Jovialis):

RA6rVmA.png
 
Target: Carlos
Distance: 1.6966% / 1.69662175
29.6BR2_Hungary_1180BC
28.8NE1_Hungary_5230BC
18.2IR1_Hungary_900BC
10.4KO1_Hungary_5710BC
7.2NE5_Hungary_5120BC
5.8CO1_Hungary_2810BC


Target: Carlos
Distance: 2.0664% / 2.06640987 | ADC: 0.25x
72.0BR2_Hungary_1180BC
26.6NE1_Hungary_5230BC
1.4IR1_Hungary_900BC

Distance to:Carlos
10.95953466BR2_Hungary_1180BC
15.24668816NE2_Hungary_5140BC
16.79959523NE4_Hungary_5130BC
17.89246489CO1_Hungary_2810BC
21.13990303NE3_Hungary_5130BC
21.65791079NE7_Hungary_4420BC
25.61394737IR1_Hungary_900BC
27.67118176NE5_Hungary_5120BC
28.42692034NE1_Hungary_5230BC
30.66774690KO2_Hungary_5640BC
31.50180788NE6_Hungary_5090BC
34.34205439BR1_Hungary_2080BC
47.31030226KO1_Hungary_5710BC


Váis a morir
 
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