Dark hair was common among Vikings, genetic study confirms

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@Northerner:
I forgot: when scientists themselves misuse terms, it's worst: bad signal!
 
I fully agree with you Moesan. But the researchers themselves made it a mess. They stated that Vikings on the whole were more darkish. But in the research self the pigmenatation result of the Viking samples (442) and that of nowadays Danes were not that different. But even a marker like ORC2 was higher among the Vikings, so how on earth could they chatter about darker Vikings? There is only one thing they showed that meanwhile was diminished namely darker hair....
Anyhow I guess partly due to the fact that Vikings were in de past by some (especially those with a deviation in the right arm) promoted as the ultimate Herrenvolk the association blond/ blue eyes is big. I really can't blame a serie like the Vikings, Ragnar and Rollo (two protagonist) seem to be really representative for the paper, Rollo is pretty 'darkish' (I have to watch twice but he has some kind of undefined kind of hazel eyes):




I think this is constant with the result of Günther (2018) about the SHG:

I guess this is pretty constant until now.In which the researchers are right I guess is that the horizon of the Vikings was widening, they became 'global players', more diversified, less exclusive Scandic. May be less so for the Scandic 'hillbilly's' that staid at home ;)

Then a question also for friend Carlos (who happens to be the same kind of eye color as I have about my own pigmentation. Because I'm more 'darkish' than my 'DNA paper trail' says.

Her is what Your DNA portal says.

Ok the hair prediction is pretty well, I have gold blond hair (with very light auburn undertone), very light as a child over the years getting darker, but anyhow your DNA is correct:

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So far so good, but now the eyes, agree that these are chestnut eyes?

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Your DNA portal:
7aee6w5uzm.15.42.png

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check frieger
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What's going on here my friends....


Mine
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(The eyebrow effect in the first photo is made by me who must have been bored that day)

The marker of the outer ring in the eye if I can say that it is true.

I also have the prediction in Gdmatch for blue eyes. My color plays with the light it really depends on the environment they can appear brown and different with more light like green, orange, my second brother turns more yellow with the light.

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My father and my maternal aunt in some pilgrimage

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My two brothers

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The first two on the left my two brothers left and my paternal cousin

I would have many more photos but I was surprised that in YourdnaPortal I did not appear markers for blonde hair.
 
What's going on here my friends....

You ask my friend Carlos: “What is going on here, my friends?” I ask for permission to answer: Nothing unusual is happening. I just wanted to point out that in Iberia there are people who carry genetic markers for light eyes and hair that at one time or another can manifest themselves in the phenotypes of individuals of different generations (children, nephews, grandchildren, great-grandchildren). I am absolutely not stating that this is a common phenotype in the region. I consider my phenotype to be a resurgence of the Celtic phenotype due to a random combination of genes that are always circulating in my paternal and maternal family and, at one time or another, individuals like me are produced. My intention was to say that having the genetic markers for blond hair and blue eyes does not necessarily mean having the phenotype, because it will depend a lot on the relevance presented by the genetic combination (dominance, homozygous, heterozygous). IMO, these markers were not taken by the Vikings to Iberia. They have been there since before the arrival of the Romans and Visigoths. They are not exclusive markers for individuals of Nordic (Scandinavian) origin. I have nothing against the Nordics. I've seen Swedish women on Rio's beaches and, at least those that my son and I know there, are beautiful. Today I have very short hair and a shaved beard because I had to cut them during the illness accused by COVID. I liked the idea of ​​keeping my hair short and my face shaved because the heat is already very strong where I live and my friends say I rejuvenated 15 years. Very good that my wife and friends liked it because I didn't like it very much.

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I doubt today pigmentation of Scandinavians is the sole heritage of SHG

No not only a heritage of the SHG, the farmers and the herders must have had effect too....

But what I do think is that nowadays Northern Europeans in are within this range: gray/blue until light brown.
To make it more concrete I have never seen an 'indigenous' (admitted this is arbitrary) Northern European with dark brown eyes, are very seldom, or am I wrong?

I mean within this range nr 22-23-24
http://www.journalofoptometry.org/en-grading-iris-color-with-an-articulo-S1888429608700608#imagen-3


And in this range brown 0.96 >
zz92e56v48.18.45.png


But please correct me if i'm wrong, If I am in the bubble:grin:
 
The markers of acules or clear eyes or depigmentation or whatever do not carry in the Iberian peninsula of the Romans or Visigoths. El Argar, La loma del puerco and many others are much older, it must be from WHG.


Once I read something about the Iberian blond like this strictly since today we are something more than Iberian. I think he said it was quite white and I have met some Spaniards like that, I remember an adult Extremaduran girl and she had a natural white blonde.




It must be chance if other dominant shades prevail over blue and there would have to be a match on the paternal and maternal side. In any case, blue eyes can be exhausting for the interlocutor since they are too stimulating.

I think that Nordic with dark brown very similar to a chocolate color must have. I do not know in other latitudes here the complete brown eyes are depigmented over the years.



About Vikings I think they wore a wool cap.

My oracle tells me about the Vikings who were tall and these were somewhat darker and others were shorter, robust and lighter skinned. Blond blue eyes but also many with medium or light brown hair and brown eyes.
 
dark hair with blue eyes marker:

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1 Blonde Variant:

70EsnoK.jpg



Blue/Gray eyes ...

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... in my case they are all inaccurate

... many trait results are Educated Guesses ...
 
dark hair with blue eyes marker:

nf9FjWA.jpg


1 Blonde Variant:

70EsnoK.jpg



Blue/Gray eyes ...

Yt9stwE.png


... in my case they are all inaccurate

... many trait results are Educated Guesses ...

(y) The actual number of genes involved in determining eye color is currently unknown. There is evidence that about 16 different genes could be responsible for eye color in humans. The determination of the eye color of ancient human fossils will always be fraught with great inaccuracy. The sequencing of a particular blue-eyed marker in a fossil indicates the possibility of the occurrence of the phenotype, never a certainty.

Postscript: In many aspects I agree with Carlos, Joey and Northener. The blue eyes can be attractive for the interlocutor since they are too stimulating in places where this phenotype is uncommon, but they are not the only types of clear eyes. The light eyes vary from light blue, passing through the different tones, solid or not, of green, amber and hazel, reaching light brown. In fact, no region on the planet has as many light eyes people as in Europe. In other places of planet the common is the very dark brown eyes that is called black eyes.
 
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No not only a heritage of the SHG, the farmers and the herders must have had effect too....

But what I do think is that nowadays Northern Europeans in are within this range: gray/blue until light brown.
To make it more concrete I have never seen an 'indigenous' (admitted this is arbitrary) Northern European with dark brown eyes, are very seldom, or am I wrong?

I mean within this range nr 22-23-24
http://www.journalofoptometry.org/en-grading-iris-color-with-an-articulo-S1888429608700608#imagen-3


And in this range brown 0.96 >
zz92e56v48.18.45.png


But please correct me if i'm wrong, If I am in the bubble:grin:

I have for my eye colour ......bottom ( of your chart ) second from left

mytruancestry says ......SNP: rs7495174 (AA) ..............but I could have selected the wrong data from mytruancestry


my father had......top row , third from left

all my sons have blue eyes , more blue than appears on your chart
 
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...rtal-com/page4?p=592469&viewfull=1#post592469

Results from yourDNAportal with commentary.

The closest to my eye color:

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Although the inner halo ring is more uniform, and more amber/redish, while the outer ring is green/grey.
However for all intents and purposes, unless there is sunlight highlighting my eye color, my eyes appear brown/hazel to the average person.

My beard has red/bleached highlights but dominantly red-brown with extremities (ie mustache, goate) of bleach blonde.

My hair color falls somewhere in that range, althouhg it was bleach platinum blonde as a kid (pre purberty):

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@Duarte, “What is going on here, my friends?” was more aimed at the snp's and the reality, simply said most signs on blue/grey eyes, still chestnut eyes ;)

I don't know if you are actual Celtic or not, I mostly associate Celtic with Irish or Scottish, may be you have a 'general West-European' outlook?
 
I was in a group of travelers who say they are Celtic travelers and well, I got correspondence with all of them, many of them were from the United States and Europe but I had to leave because they didn't pay much attention to me either.


Currently it is a problem for research or for them to pay attention to the term "Spanish" or Hispanic since it is very conditioned to the North American vision due to the large Hispanic community that they have in the United States and from what I see it affects us Spaniards from Spain


As an anecdote many decades ago Charles Bronson (I do not know if I write it well), an American film director in an interview on t.v. Spanish received calls from the public and a woman from the public called himself Penelope and Charles with an astonished face exclaimed: Penelope, aren't we in Spain? Also Ben Affleck or something like that when he comes to Spain exaggerates his Mexican accent, in Spain we adore Mexico but neither Mexican cuisine is in our diet nor do we speak as in Mexico he perhaps believes that it will cause empathy with the Spanish but we only see an American imitating a Mexican, that's not our day to day Mr. Ben Affleck.


Can we Spaniards have archetypes, alter egos, universal avatars, or can only Anglo-Saxons play the elite of Rome, the ancient Greeks, the most Vikings in the world or any other mythical characters? while we Spaniards are condemned to represent only Carmen de Bisset or Zorro?


For this form or vision on the part of the world power United States is hindering my own investigation. How is it possible that in MTA so many Europeans or North Americans of European descent obtain results on maps throughout Europe and in Iberia only with the Visigoth results of Catalonia? And at the same time, we Spaniards obtain results throughout Europe. That is what I say what is happening here?


And the rich countries of Eastern Eruopa, good as long as they maintain a relationship with the United States as a colleague and make North Americans feel that they are of the same ethnic group, racial or whatever you want to say, then North Americans delighted to be more European, thanks colleagues from the EU
 
We are far from the thread about Vikings, here.
 
@Duarte, “What is going on here, my friends?” was more aimed at the snp's and the reality, simply said most signs on blue/grey eyes, still chestnut eyes ;)

I don't know if you are actual Celtic or not, I mostly associate Celtic with Irish or Scottish, may be you have a 'general West-European' outlook?

Hello Notherner. I have always associated my traits with those of the Celts, who had a strong presence in pre-Roman Iberia. I never thought about Visigoths, although the MTA gives me a close relationship with an old sample. But this individual is already a mixed race of Visigoths with Iberians. Cheers;)
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I agree that Moesan has a point. However this thread is about phenotype of Vikings, ie hair and eye color.
Since the discussion went to the point about German/Scandinavian DNA in Southern Europe, and vice versa I guess it does not hurt the forum for people to sidetrack a little. I personally am enjoying this thread.

You are right Duarte the Maciamo thread is the better one for scientific discussion of the relevant paper.

So far what I got is that even having multiple genes for a certain phenotype does not necesite the phenotype actually showing. Since there are ~20 genes for eye color as well as multiple about hair color I guess posting our yourDNAportal to prove that fact is not too far from the scope of the current thread.

Also we mentioned how scientists use the media for clout often contradicting their own paper, to the point of dishonest discourse, so I guess Carlos has a point with his complaint.

PS: I did not read the whole paper, but skimming through it and the supplement I am a bit disappointed. 178 pages of supplements, yet so little meat to the article beyond generalizations based on genes found all over Europe, that can not even guarantee the de facto prevalence of the phenotypes. No wonder the authors zic zac their thesis when speaking to mainstream media to create as much clout as they can.
 
I have read in one of their quotes saying that Vikings was a profession, but it looks to me like they just are twisting the facts.

If blonde hair was not common in Svandinavia then where lol?!
 
The truth was Scandinavian Vikings were usually blond or red-haired but not all. There were exception to the rule.
Here some pics of modern Italians who are native to places in Italy where Germanic tribes settled and established their Kingdom. Hence, these blond Italians have for sure some old Germanic admixture.
Interestingly, there is pretty conclusive evidence in the supplementary data that the Lombards were of Scandinavian origin (particularly Swedish and Norwegian). One of the co-authors spoke about it in this video, also debunking and clearing up some of the misunderstandings. I looked at the Excel-sheet posted by Maciamo, and there are some fancy f4-statistics there that I'm not well-versed enough in statistics to interpret, but I do understand they show clear evidence of genetic continuity between Iron Age-Scandinavians and Lombards
 
Interestingly, there is pretty conclusive evidence in the supplementary data that the Lombards were of Scandinavian origin (particularly Swedish and Norwegian). One of the co-authors spoke about it in this video, also debunking and clearing up some of the misunderstandings. I looked at the Excel-sheet posted by Maciamo, and there are some fancy f4-statistics there that I'm not well-versed enough in statistics to interpret, but I do understand they show clear evidence of genetic continuity between Iron Age-Scandinavians and Lombards

I don't know about the supposed evidence, but this supposed migration path of the Longobards:
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longobarden#/media/Bestand:Lombard_Migration.jpg
 
Interestingly, there is pretty conclusive evidence in the supplementary data that the Lombards were of Scandinavian origin (particularly Swedish and Norwegian). One of the co-authors spoke about it in this video, also debunking and clearing up some of the misunderstandings. I looked at the Excel-sheet posted by Maciamo, and there are some fancy f4-statistics there that I'm not well-versed enough in statistics to interpret, but I do understand they show clear evidence of genetic continuity between Iron Age-Scandinavians and Lombards

Wow, very interesting. I wonder if that E-V13 Lombard is of the same branch as the E-V13 viking
 
Interestingly, there is pretty conclusive evidence in the supplementary data that the Lombards were of Scandinavian origin (particularly Swedish and Norwegian). One of the co-authors spoke about it in this video, also debunking and clearing up some of the misunderstandings. I looked at the Excel-sheet posted by Maciamo, and there are some fancy f4-statistics there that I'm not well-versed enough in statistics to interpret, but I do understand they show clear evidence of genetic continuity between Iron Age-Scandinavians and Lombards

Thanks for the video, very interesting to hear the co-author's take.
 
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