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Thread: Are Modern Greeks related to Ancient Greeks?

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    Regular Member HiveMindTerror's Avatar
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    Are Modern Greeks related to Ancient Greeks?

    So firstly I have to say I believe they are.

    I'm only asking this because lately I've seen so many people saying that ancient Greeks were white with typically brunette, blonde and red hair, and that the swarthy/tan Mediterranean look of modern Greeks is from centuries of intermixing with Turks. Or that modern Greeks are hellenized Turks period.

    This seems ludicrous to me that a population native to Greece (a sunny Mediterranean country) would look like northern or central Europeans. Wouldn't they have already been tan/Mediterranean?

    Or is there credence in what these seemingly racist people are saying?

    I've seen many native ethnic Europeans who appear tan or swarthy but doubt it's all due to Turkish or Moorish invasions/mixing.

    Europeans are made up of many ancient peoples who looked different. From what I recall reading the original bearers of haplogroup I were dark skinned, up until relatively recently. And that ancient Greeks and many south Europeans mostly descend from Anatolian Farmers.

    How would you respond to these people? Are they wrong? Are they right?

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    Regular Member Boreas's Avatar
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    Attachment 12355
    Greece and Portugal are two the most dark Europe Nations

    Hellenized Turk? Maybe in Byzantine Time but not in Ottoman. However every Orthodoks defined by Greek/Rum in Ottoman and all church language is Greek so it could be many Balkan Christian Hellenized.

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    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Related yes ( most of there genomes)
    But they do have slavic influence🤔
    known ancestery:
    Sefhardi/ aschenazi/ mizrahi/ bulgarian
    Eurogenes k13 updated closest:
    4.70345618 Greek_Andros_Island

    eurogenes k13 ancient closeset:
    4.86806943 R136_Lazio_Rome_italy_Late_Antiquity
    http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_by_group/h3aa-av_genbank_sequences.htm

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    Regular Member ihype02's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Yes they are related. And if anything mainlanders are more blonde than the ancient ones.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by HiveMindTerror View Post
    So firstly I have to say I believe they are.
    I'm only asking this because lately I've seen so many people saying that ancient Greeks were white with typically brunette, blonde and red hair, and that the swarthy/tan Mediterranean look of modern Greeks is from centuries of intermixing with Turks. Or that modern Greeks are hellenized Turks period.
    Old habits die hard. The people who made these claims are not up to date with modern historical, anthropological and genetic evidence. And the old judgments were made absent evidence.

    They are related. In fact, ancient Greeks are are by far the main source of ancestry of modern Greeks. We are yet to determine though exactly to what extent new elements have been absorbed. But I would say in this decade we will have a very clear image. So far, it looks that, if anything, the very first Greeks were on average even more Mediterranean than modern Greeks.

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    Genetically I would say from what I remember from the Lazaridis papers about 75% of modern Greek genetic makeup is shared with ancient Myceneans.

    Now ancient Myceneans at least their elite were tall (1.80m+) with broad shoulders. But they mixed with the locals (Pelasgians) who were shorter. I will be interesting to see the genetic mix of classical (500-400BC) Greeks vs Mycenean Greeks vs Pelasgians.

    Just remember that during the Roman, Byzantine and Ottoman Empires the emperors moved populations around whenever an area emptied out due to war, famine or plagues/diseases. You need the taxes after all. I mean all those marvelous palaces don't get built from nothing.

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    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Yes, Modern Greeks are related to Ancient Greeks.

    Modern Greeks resemble the Mycenaeans, but with some additional dilution of the Early Neolithic ancestry. Our results support the idea of continuity but not isolation in the history of populations of the Aegean, before and after the time of its earliest civilizations.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/nature23310
    Ancient West Eurasia

    Calculator Versions:


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    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    @the OP,

    In fact, this subject has been addressed in 2017, here is a link to the study: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...and-Mycenaeans

    If you want to discuss the genetic relation between modern Greeks, and Ancient Greeks, I recommend continuing the conversation there.

    I am closing this thread, because to be frank, it is pointless. The answer is undoubtedly yes, they are related to them. Not 100% carbon copies, but Modern Greeks continue the genetic legacy of the Ancient Greeks for the most part. Of course there are unintelligent, hateful, and envious people all over the internet that will say otherwise. However, there are also people that will argue that the world is flat.

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    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by HiveMindTerror View Post
    So firstly I have to say I believe they are.
    I'm only asking this because lately I've seen so many people saying that ancient Greeks were white with typically brunette, blonde and red hair, and that the swarthy/tan Mediterranean look of modern Greeks is from centuries of intermixing with Turks. Or that modern Greeks are hellenized Turks period.
    This seems ludicrous to me that a population native to Greece (a sunny Mediterranean country) would look like northern or central Europeans. Wouldn't they have already been tan/Mediterranean?
    Or is there credence in what these seemingly racist people are saying?
    I've seen many native ethnic Europeans who appear tan or swarthy but doubt it's all due to Turkish or Moorish invasions/mixing.
    Europeans are made up of many ancient peoples who looked different. From what I recall reading the original bearers of haplogroup I were dark skinned, up until relatively recently. And that ancient Greeks and many south Europeans mostly descend from Anatolian Farmers.
    How would you respond to these people? Are they wrong? Are they right?
    Here we show that Minoans and Mycenaeans were genetically similar, having at least three-quarters of their ancestry from the first Neolithic farmers of western Anatolia and the Aegean1, 2, and most of the remainder from ancient populations related to those of the Caucasus3 and Iran4, 5. However, the Mycenaeans differed from Minoans in deriving additional ancestry from an ultimate source related to the hunter–gatherers of eastern Europe and Siberia6, 7, 8, introduced via a proximal source related to the inhabitants of either the Eurasian steppe1, 6, 9 or Armenia4, 9.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...and-Mycenaeans

    How would I respond to these people? I would cite the study on the subject, and if that isn't good enough, than the person you are speaking to is a moron that is wasting your time.

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