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Thread: Democracy, Islamophobia, Islamofasim

  1. #1
    Regular Member Yetos's Avatar
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    Democracy, Islamophobia, Islamofasim



    I did not know where to place this monolgue, so i decide toplace it here.

    I hope it will not remain a monologue, but turn to a dialogue,
    opening the minds of all of us against this modern 'enemy' of democratic rights and freedom.

    I am reffering to the not so late events of 'Charlie Hebdo magazine' and the behead of the teacher.
    ofcourse all the effect that follows the above, at global range.
    ΟΘΕΝ ΑΙΔΩΣ OY EINAI
    ΑΤΗ ΛΑΜΒΑΝΕΙΝ ΑΥΤΟΙΣ
    ΥΒΡΙΣ ΓΕΝΝΑΤΑΙ
    ΝΕΜΕΣΙΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΙΣΗ ΑΚΟΛΟΥΘΟΥΣΙ ΔΕ

    When there is no shame
    Divine blindness conquers them
    Hybris (abuse, opprombium) is born
    Nemesis and punishment follows.

    Εχε υπομονη Ηρωα
    Η τιμωρια δεν αργει.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Yetos's Avatar
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    1. Democracy

    Democracy comes from the Greek word Δημοκρατια, (δημος + κρατος) and has somehow meaning of strangth of municipal/state citizens.

    First direct democracy system was at Athenean city state, and probably the most typical a state could have.
    Older seems to be the Spartan Apella Απελλα, but was rulling city through only one class, the Ομοιοι, Omoioi (Omii) translated asthe same ones but means the 'common and equal'. the military class of Spartans,

    At Roman era we see the Senator and other not so direct forms, but elected by people,

    Much later the term that dissapears for over a millenium, appears at England by Oliver Cromwell, at the English civil war. the irony is that he became a 'Protector'

    Today Democracy is based on what we say represantation system, demotes (citizens) gather and choose someone who will will represent them at state desicions.

    Most important to our modern system of democracy and democratic believes was 'La revolution Francais'
    a strange era, a strangle among , Royaume de Dieu, Anarchy, Imperium, that ended to a kind of form that stabilize through centuries and expand all over the world, the modern forms of democracy,
    French revolution offcourse was based after the ideas of European circle of enlightment, 'siecle des lumieres' which followed the era of renaissance,

    Basic ideas of modern democracies are the principals of equality and freedom,
    So democracies first had to reject other authorities, either humans either spirtuals like religion.
    So the elected ones, who represent the people, must protect state and system from foreign will, and inner efforts of steal the Αρχη, the rule,
    so modern democracies are divided to 2 different parts which united make the democracy
    1) the executive authority, which is obliged to protect the political system, and execute the law and will of people (Goverment)
    2) the lawgiver and the people's will as expressed by the elected. (Parliament)
    that means that no human title, human power, as also no spiritual power like churches is above law, or goverment.


    the principals of democracy.
    Robespierre consider as principals the Liberte Egalite Fraternite,
    same time we see many tripartite (3 words) including words like Amitie Justice Force Surete Propierte Vertu Cherite Union etc

    so what means these 3 words,
    Equality,
    each human has equal rights and is equal against state.
    each vote of citizen (demotes) is equal to other,
    each citizen is equal against the law,

    Liberty, - Freedom
    Indepence of the state,
    Indepence of authorities from other authorities, like foreign states, kings, clerics etc.
    Freedom of travel, merchantise, work, choosec etc under state law, for the citizens inside their democratic area
    freedom of speach, thoughts, science and art expresions.

    Brotherhood,
    the restoration of state defenders,
    the help to the weak of the state, to keep living in equality as concerns their vote.
    the taxation analogy so all must contribute, and all must have access to public 'goods' like retirement, insurance, health etc etc

  3. #3
    Regular Member Yetos's Avatar
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    2. Islamophobia

    Islamophobia
    comes from the Arab word Aslama and the Greek Phobos
    Aslama means 'submission to God'
    Phobos means Fear but also Hatred Terror Panic Fright etc, the oposite is philia.

    I am using the wiki term,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia

    " Islamophobia is the fear, hatred of, or prejudice against the Islamic religion or Muslims generally,[1][2][3] especially when seen as a geopolitical force or the source of terrorism.[4][5][6]The meaning of the term continues to be debated, and some view it as problematic. Several scholars consider Islamophobia to be a form of xenophobia or racism, although the legitimacy of this definition is disputed. Some scholars view Islamophobia and racism as partially overlapping phenomena, while others dispute the relationship, primarily on the grounds that religion is not a race. The causes and characteristics of Islamophobia are also subjects of debate. Some commentators have posited an increase in Islamophobia resulting from the September 11 attacks, the rise of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, and other terror attacks in Europe and the United States by Islamic extremists. Some have associated it with the increased presence of Muslims in the United States and in the European Union, while others view it as a response to the emergence of a global Muslim identity. "

    So Islamophobia can be an indepent public phobia against Islam, or a kind of Xenophobia = Fear against every foreign, or a kind of racism = hatred against a chracteristic like skin colour, ethnicity, religion etc

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    Regular Member Yetos's Avatar
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    3. IslamoFasism

    the term is old and means the connection of some Islamic movements with totalletarian parties-powers of Europe.

    The correct meaning comes from the word Islam = 'submissive to God'. and the Italian Fascio wich originates from latin fasces.
    No matter the word and the party that carried that name was in Italy, the term has got international meaning and is used to express every personal or one party around the world, including Jundas
    and every totalletarian -one party or one leader- political form of state.
    it is synonyme with Greek dictator if it is personal leadership, but has some differences.
    so for example N Korea is more a dictatorship, than a fascistic state.
    while China and ex USSR is close to Fascism since it is/was one rulling party.

    The term also has an expansionon in its meaning, which is the forced, sometimes violent, of a rulling elite class or group or party or even a nation against the rest.
    which is patched to the terminology after WW2,

    Fascism sometimes is a sick kind of democracy, and sometimes has nothing to do with democracy,
    basically eliminates one of the 3 principals as written above while provides more the others,
    Usually annihilates the principal of Equality, and/or the principal of Liberty, since provides surely state security, but denies the freedom of speach, and mainly gives extra weighth to Brotherhood, since provides free and gives a lot to people so the political status to look as hapiness and not organise riots and revolts.

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    Regular Member Yetos's Avatar
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    4, The primary 2 questions

    the decapitation of the French teacher by a young muslim, is under the bellow status
    a) the freedom of speach which a basic rule for a healthy democracy.(freedom of speach, art, science, expressions etc)b) the religious demand not to draw the face of the prophet.

    1) Can a healthy democracy live under a status where 'speach' is censored and punished by decapitation? (democracy under religious 'parental guidance'
    2) Is the action of the religious foundamentalist an action against Democracy and state? (political crime or common law crime)


  6. #6
    Dominique_NUit
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    (1) Speech is already heavily censored in our Western democracies. Are you not famliar with the recent imprisonment of Herve Ryssen? He is merely the tip of the iceberg. Further, are you not familiar with the ever-expanding censorship of speech on social media platforms like YouTube, Twitter, etc, etc ----> Sorry to say, but you are hopelessly naive if you think that only Islamic fundamentalists seek to censor speech in our times.

    (2) The action of an Islamic fundamentalist might well be democratic were he a citizen of an Islamic society. Democracy and liberalism are not the same thing, and in fact are often opposed. You should read Carl Schmitt's "Crisis of Parliamentary Democracy" if you truly seek clarification. In the context of France, the perpetrator's actions were clearly aimed against the indigenous French population.

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    Regular Member Yetos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dominique_nuit View Post
    (1) Speech is already heavily censored in our Western democracies. Are you not famliar with the recent imprisonment of Herve Ryssen? He is merely the tip of the iceberg. Further, are you not familiar with the ever-expanding censorship of speech on social media platforms like YouTube, Twitter, etc, etc ----> Sorry to say, but you are hopelessly naive if you think that only Islamic fundamentalists seek to censor speech in our times.

    (2) The action of an Islamic fundamentalist might well be democratic were he a citizen of an Islamic society. Democracy and liberalism are not the same thing, and in fact are often opposed. You should read Carl Schmitt's "Crisis of Parliamentary Democracy" if you truly seek clarification. In the context of France, the perpetrator's actions were clearly aimed against the indigenous French population.
    I am banned from youtube, I know what you are saying about media,
    But youtube etc are not a state, neither democratic, they are corporations, and I agree that private corporations are against democracy.

    So by your opinion, theattack has racistic motive, not a religious one?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dominique_nuit View Post
    (1) Speech is already heavily censored in our Western democracies. Are you not famliar with the recent imprisonment of Herve Ryssen? He is merely the tip of the iceberg. Further, are you not familiar with the ever-expanding censorship of speech on social media platforms like YouTube, Twitter, etc, etc ----> Sorry to say, but you are hopelessly naive if you think that only Islamic fundamentalists seek to censor speech in our times.

    (2) The action of an Islamic fundamentalist might well be democratic were he a citizen of an Islamic society. Democracy and liberalism are not the same thing, and in fact are often opposed. You should read Carl Schmitt's "Crisis of Parliamentary Democracy" if you truly seek clarification. In the context of France, the perpetrator's actions were clearly aimed against the indigenous French population.
    seems like that Ryssen was a holocaust denier. probably also a racist, almost certainly actually. if those people are allowed to talk publicly they only encourage people with the same extreme opinions to do the same and soon life will be hell for minorities in france.

    why were the actions of this extremist aimed against the indigenous french population? it seems more likely that it was aimed against all non-muslims.

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    I will stay just at last event at Nice,
    the attacker enter before 2 months, at SEP 2020 to Lampedoyssa Italy, as Illegal Immigrant
    before few days was at Bari Italy,
    and he took the train and went to Nice to decapitate a woman and wound few others.
    an Illegal immigrant, not even 2 months in Europe.
    WHY TO DO THIS ATTACK A NEWCOMER? It is suppossed that he came to Europe for a better life. not to spend his life at prison.
    WAS HE SO FANATIC OR IDIOT? Guess not, cause he could Attack non muslims at a church outside Italy.
    THEN? could this be a programmed, a plan? a reason before enters Europe?

    AND WHY THIS ATTACKS CONTINUE?
    have we thought about that?
    Becauseit is the bad circle, attacks of Islamofastits, create more Islamophobia,
    more Islamophobia, more attack against muslims,
    more attacks against muslims, more Jihad and Islamofasistic attacks,
    and where it will end?

    it is also known as the psychology of the master the beaten dog,
    the maniac dog owner, who decide to train his dog by beating it,
    the dog lives in fear, fears everything, every human, but also hates, hates every master,
    and many times the dog attacks the master at the time he thinks correct,

    but the real victim here is not 'white ass Europeans' or 'dark skin' AfroAsians.
    the real victim here is the Democracy and her second principal. the principal of Liberty and Freedom,
    if that principal is missing, all people we will live under the demamnd of others,
    The unigue of European style democracy (including many others) is that Democracy is above everything else,
    and not under 'parental guidance' of eternal titled human,
    the eras when religious 'Fathers' or 'by mercy of God' emperrors is over in Europe,
    we do not need or want any Religious wars, neither religious 'Fathers' neither religious 'Prophets'
    all we have to do is to protect our European democracies, and especially now the Liberty-Freedom principal.
    because if this principal is over, then we will face the collapse of the other 2, Equality and Brotherhood,

    What fears me, is that Europe is turning conservative day by day with such acts,
    and we might seem parties and phenomena not Patriot/Nationalistic but rather Racist/Natiolistic.

    To finish my monologue, Islam exists in Europe the last centuries,
    Excluding the Ottoman empire and Balkans, which is another case,
    Muslims existed the 20th century at Spain, France, Britain, etc etc,
    the new incoming generations show this behavour.
    we must wonder why.

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