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Thread: New paper: Ancient Egypt 18th Dynasty R1b, mtDNA K

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    New paper: Ancient Egypt 18th Dynasty R1b, mtDNA K

    'Insights from ancient DNA analysis of Egyptian human mummies: clues to disease and kinship' (Gad et al. 2020)

    “An investigative study was carried out on the familial relationships of a number of late 18th dynasty mummies (ca. 1550–1295 B.C.), including that of Tutankhamen. The study was based on the analysis of the autosomal and Y-chromosome STR markers in addition to mitochondrial hypervariable region 1 sequences. A 4- generation pedigree of Tutankhamun’s immediate lineage and the identity of his ancestors were established. The Royal male lineage was the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b that was passed from the grandparent [Amenhotep III] to the father [KV55, Akhenaten] to the grandchild [Tutankhamen]. The maternal lineage, the mitochondrial haplogroup K, extended from the great-grandmother [Thuya] to the grandmother [KV35 Elder lady, Queen Tiye] to the yet historically-unidentified mother [KV35 Younger lady] to Tutankhamen.”

    https://academic.oup.com/hmg/advance...rectedFrom=PDF

    (Published online 15th Oct 2020)

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    So Tutankhamen was truly r1b
    Amazing 😲🤔😎

    P.s
    There is no access to the pdf in this link though🤔
    Sefhardi/aschenazi/mizrahi/bulgarian
    E-L791 dude from anthrogenica:
    -Y60961 > E-Y62418 has 2 Sephardic branches, related within the last 3,000 years.

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    I sent you a message.

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    What sublcade of R1b does he have ?

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    It doesn't say. It refers to another study that hasn't been published yet:

    'Maternal and paternal lineages in King Tutankhamun’s family.' (Gad et al., 2020)

    In Kamrin et al. (eds.) 'Guardian of Ancient Egypt: Essays in Honor of Zahi Hawass', Czech Institute of Egyptology, Faculty of Arts, Charles University, Prague (in press).


    No doubt that paper will have all the info.

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    Anyone for V88? :)


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Taking into account what we know so far about R1b, the V-88 Subclade seems more likely in this context, though I would not be totally surprised if it is another branch that is now extinct.
    Supposedly the 18th dynasty is a native Egyptian dynasty, the founder of the dynasty Ahmose is the son of Seqenenre Tao and the brother of Khamose the two last kings of the 17th dynasty who are descended from the Intef Kings who probably form a genetic continuity with older egyptian dynastys though not necessarily by male line but by cognatic descendancy.
    Still let us postulate the hypothesys that a long extinct r1b m-269 lineage could have entered the ancient egyptian gene pool and have the good fortune of becoming of royal status.
    All things considered again I say that V-88 is much more probable but we should keep our eyes opened for other possibilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Anyone for V88? :)

    I believe he will be proven to be R1b-M269, Atlantic Modal Haplotype. This was extensively discussed at Family Tree DNA's forum and DNA Rootsweb Archiver, with screenshots and links to videos posted as originally aired. FTDNA revamped their message board, losing all their old message since then. Unfortunately, the relevant threads at DNA Rootsweb Archiver are not available any more either. For a while, there was also a Youtube video available that showed the brief shots of the Y-DNA STR reports as they were shown in the original airing. A lab technician was sitting in front of the computer monitor and the camera shot went in and out of focus but the sample labels and several STR markers identifiers and reported values were clearly visible for a moment, enough to give me a great deal of confidence of the claim. The episode was later reaired with stock footage, not shown in the original. In one article I read at that time, Zahi Hawass described Tut's haplotype as Greek. I don't recall the source, but with everything having gone down the memory hole, I'll just wait on the paper. I don't know what the upcoming paper will reveal. but if I was a betting person, I'd place a bet on R-M269.

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    R1b-M269 has been found in next door Israel around the same time. What if R1b-M269 is a Hyksos ruler lineage and R1b-V88 is Egyptian, two distantly related R1b lineages fighting over Egypt, epic!

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    I am becoming highly suspicious that there is a anti E-M78 agenda regarding ancient Egyptian samples.

    It's no wonder they are cherrypicking results and publishing with very suspicious low coverage samples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Progon View Post
    I am becoming highly suspicious that there is a anti E-M78 agenda regarding ancient Egyptian samples.

    It's no wonder they are cherrypicking results and publishing with very suspicious low coverage samples.

    i don't see it here
    where do you feal it in anthrogenica ?
    speaking of e-m78
    there is a huge chance RamsessIII is realy e-m78-v22
    instead of the e1b1a that was asign to him


    p.s
    it is beyond me why egyptian labs
    don't anlayse those ancient samples again
    with all the progress been made in population genetics

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    Just to be out there again and again and again.
    Right or wrong (we will see) is in my shulaveri2bellbeaker on the African route chapter.
    Tut is m269 without downstream clades because (maybe L23) because Tut is the remaining genetic signature of the Merimde beni salama culture 4300bc that were R1b m269...
    No point on argue at this stage. We will See.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philjames100 View Post
    'Insights from ancient DNA analysis of Egyptian human mummies: clues to disease and kinship' (Gad et al. 2020)
    “An investigative study was carried out on the familial relationships of a number of late 18th dynasty mummies (ca. 1550–1295 B.C.), including that of Tutankhamen. The study was based on the analysis of the autosomal and Y-chromosome STR markers in addition to mitochondrial hypervariable region 1 sequences. A 4- generation pedigree of Tutankhamun’s immediate lineage and the identity of his ancestors were established. The Royal male lineage was the Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b that was passed from the grandparent [Amenhotep III] to the father [KV55, Akhenaten] to the grandchild [Tutankhamen]. The maternal lineage, the mitochondrial haplogroup K, extended from the great-grandmother [Thuya] to the grandmother [KV35 Elder lady, Queen Tiye] to the yet historically-unidentified mother [KV35 Younger lady] to Tutankhamen.”
    https://academic.oup.com/hmg/advance...rectedFrom=PDF
    (Published online 15th Oct 2020)
    The haplotype looked like it could have been related to the one found in Assyrians and the Alawites, R1b-L584.

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    Perhaps the 18th dynasty was founded by the "Hyksos", who up until recently were thought to be invaders, but based on a recent paper are suggested to be a military elite of a non-Egyptian Near Eastern group. R1b-L584 could fit the bill here. This still reads as invaders to me, just that they were from the vicinity, not like NW Europe or East Asia for example.

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    Although I respect your opinion I might say that according to what we know about the period in question that is highly unlikely.
    First, the 18th dynasty was not really a new dynasty but a continuation of the 17th (Ahmose the first ruler of the 18th was a full brother of Khamose the last ruler of the 17th as well as a son of Seqenenre Tao and a grandson of Senakhtenre).
    Secondly, the 17th dynasty reigned from Thebes while the Hyksos were based in Memphis, and both considered themselves foreign to each other.
    Lastly, Khamose himself proclaimed his desire to expel the invaders from Egypt in a quite famous stella that survives to this day he says this : "what power can I claim to have when I am stuck between an Asiatic and a Nubian, each of them has a piece of Egypt too, and shares the land with me, my aim is to liberte Egypt and crush the Asiatics".
    Taking all this into account it would baffle me if the 17th dynasty of Egypt turned out to be asiatic or indeed "hyksian" in origin though it would not be impossible since what we are considering to be asiatic is just the male-line and a lot could occur in order for us to have a native Egyptian dynasty (who considered themselves so) with an asiatic male lineage (infidelity, rape of a noble woman during the Hyksos invasion, assimilation of an asiatic line into the egyptian gene pool etc.).

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    Someone posted on anthrogenica the predicted haplogroups of other Egyptian Pharaohs. These predictions show surprising and unexpected Y-DNA.



    YuyaY: G2a / Mt : K
    Thuya : Mt : K
    Amenhotep III : Y : R1b / Mt: H2b
    Tiye Mt : K
    Akhenaten : Y : R1b / Mt : K
    Youngerlady: Mt : K
    Tut Y : R1b / K
    Unidentified 18th dynastyroyal (Tutmose I ?) : Y: L

    Autosomal of Egyptian pharaohs? - Page 19 (anthrogenica.com)


    Nevegen predicts the hp from Akhenaten to be R1b-U152 and the second option would be R1b-DF27, which means King Tut would be R1b-U152 boy.


    However, Afro- centrists have already declared that the hp R1b originated in Africa, thus is an African marker. Some of them assert that the mtDNA K, H that were found in ancient Egyptians are African, too. Their argument is if any mtDNA or Y-DNA is found in Africans that means that these haplogroups are African. Surely, we shouldn't draw any hard conclusions from haplogroups only, but it appears that ancient Egypt was pretty cosmopolitan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post


    Someone posted on anthrogenica the predicted haplogroups of other Egyptian Pharaohs. These predictions show surprising and unexpected Y-DNA.




    Autosomal of Egyptian pharaohs? - Page 19 (anthrogenica.com)


    Nevegen predicts the hp from Akhenaten to be R1b-U152 and the second option would be R1b-DF27, which means King Tut would be R1b-U152 boy.


    However, Afro- centrists have already declared that the hp R1b originated in Africa, thus is an African marker. Some of them assert that the mtDNA K, H that were found in ancient Egyptians are African, too. Their argument is if any mtDNA or Y-DNA is found in Africans that means that these haplogroups are African. Surely, we shouldn't draw any hard conclusions from haplogroups only, but it appears that ancient Egypt was pretty cosmopolitan.
    It looks like Ancient Egypt was already divided between Nordicists and Afrocentrists.

    Because according to the paper Ancient Egyptians so far are a mix of Celtic-R1b and Bantuid E1b.

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    Thanks for information👍
    anthrogenica became heaven for afrocentrist
    Sad 😥

    P.s
    Pretty cool to see haplogroup G and L😎🤔

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Thanks for information������
    anthrogenica became heaven for afrocentrist
    Sad ������
    P.s


    Yep.


    This poster called Mansamusa, is an active member of Egyptsearch, a forum that promotes racial pride, black supremacy and claims ancient black glorious past and asserts that Ancient Egypt was black. He wrote this:




    OriginallyPosted by Mansamusa [IMG]file:///C:/Users/User/AppData/Local/Temp/lu107961dgzm9.tmp/lu107961dgzor_tmp_95b6beca5d37afd5.png[/IMG]
    In my humble opinion, it would be best not to encourage or even coddle people into taking pride in their heritage based on actual ancestry to ancient inhabitants of the country they live in. The idea that North Africa and Egypt have remained the same throughout human history from since the neolithic to the present is rather far-fetched and borders on unrealistic nationalism. Furthermore, what on earth is wrong with modern Egyptians taking pride in Ancient Egyptian culture as their national heritage whether or not they are direct descendants of Ancient Egyptians?

    This approach of linking national cultural heritage to genetics will just lead people to setting themselves up for a) disappointment when or if later results prove their belief wrong, b) bias in interpreting results to suit a preconceived agenda, and c) an anti-scientific attitude which rejects results that do not fit the nationalist agenda.

    What a joke! An Afro-centrist who claims Ancient Egypt civilization as his, parades and boasts with AE achievements as a proof for black superiority and a source for black pride, blasts modern Egyptians for taking pride in the heritage of their ancestors. Classical case of sour grapes syndrome and coping mechanism.

    The PC anthrogenica Moderators still haven't banned this guy despite his several provoking and inflammatory diction. He constantly accuses Western geneticists, anthropologists/Egyptologists of racism and bias. Astounding double standards.



    Another Afrocentricist who pushes the ancient black Egypt agenda called beyoku wrote this:


    1- They are the ancestors of East Africans....either them directly or an intermediate common ancestor probably in Egypt. IBM = U6/M1/V68 -These are some of the most dominant lineages in Horners.
    2- Its not Common sense at all. Common sense told us Natufian was SSA. If Natufian Look SSA, you dont know if those Jebel Sahabans are strongly Natufian or Strongly Dinka like just by looking at a skull. Furthermore Nilotic and Nilo Saharan ancestry is not necessarily SSA.

    A blatant lie and made up junk. Anthropologists never classified Natufians as Negroid, but as proto-Mediterranean, with some late Natufian samples showing some minor SSA/negroid affinities, such as prognathism and a wider nose. The fact is, that professional anthropologists can easily tell a Negroid skull from a Caucasian one apart. They can also recognize admixed, intermediate groups by examining the skull, too. Anyway, Afro-centrists on anthrogenica due to the woke AG Mods can spread their BS without restriction while Egyptologists with PhD are insulted as pseudo-scientists and physical anthropology is dismissed as pseudo-science, there. And this forum prides itself with guaranteeing high quality content by moderating it to death and treating users differently. Trololo.


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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    Yep.


    This poster called Mansamusa, is an active member of Egyptsearch, a forum that promotes racial pride, black supremacy and claims ancient black glorious past and asserts that Ancient Egypt was black. He wrote this:





    What a joke! An Afro-centrist who claims Ancient Egypt civilization as his, parades and boasts with AE achievements as a proof for black superiority and a source for black pride, blasts modern Egyptians for taking pride in the heritage of their ancestors. Classical case of sour grapes syndrome and coping mechanism.

    The PC anthrogenica Moderators still haven't banned this guy despite his several provoking and inflammatory diction. He constantly accuses Western geneticists, anthropologists/Egyptologists of racism and bias. Astounding double standards.



    Another Afrocentricist who pushes the ancient black Egypt agenda called beyoku wrote this:





    A blatant lie and made up junk. Anthropologists never classified Natufians as Negroid, but as proto-Mediterranean, with some late Natufian samples showing some minor SSA/negroid affinities, such as prognathism and a wider nose. The fact is, that professional anthropologists can easily tell a Negroid skull from a Caucasian one apart. They can also recognize admixed, intermediate groups by examining the skull, too. Anyway, Afro-centrists on anthrogenica due to the woke AG Mods can spread their BS without restriction while Egyptologists with PhD are insulted as pseudo-scientists and physical anthropology is dismissed as pseudo-science, there. And this forum prides itself with guaranteeing high quality content by moderating it to death and treating users differently. Trololo.

    he is indeed annoying
    while i don't denay that y haplogroup e-m34( my branch) is related to e-m2 ( to which he belong )
    it is a 40,000 years connection damn basal ( not informative at all )

    https://www.yfull.com/branch-info/E-P177/#t1-tab

    when a person try to steal the cultures of other people and achivments
    because of y haplogroup he is in the wrong track
    Last edited by kingjohn; 18-12-20 at 00:35.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    he is indeed annoying
    while i don't denay that y haplogroup e-m34( my branch) is related to e-m2 ( to which he belong )
    it is a 40,000 years connection damn basal ( not informative at all )
    https://www.yfull.com/branch-info/E-P177/#t1-tab
    when a person try to steal the cultures of other people and achivments
    because of y haplogroup he is in the wrong track
    What made me lose respect for the AG Mods is that they permanently ban people right and left for peanuts, even after one day, while giving Afrocentric trolls a safe haven. These Afrocentric culture vultures not only steal other people's history, they call everybody a racist who call them out for doing so. I was called a white supremacist for stating before the Abusir DNA results, that modern Egyptians, especially the Copts are more or less the direct descendants of the ancient ones. Actually, Egyptologists, physical anthropologists already found out that there is an overall "Genetic continuity between ancient and modern Egyptians." Unlike the dogma and mantra of anthrogenica physical anthropology is not outdated or useless pseudoscience.

  22. #22
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    Tut is R1b-U152 ?! Is this a joke ?

  23. #23
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    R1b, maybe. U-152? I'll believe it when I see it in a paper.

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    Here's the data which was posted on Anthrogenica, from Gad et al. 2020, 'Maternal and Paternal Lineages in King Tutankhamen's family':

    https://www.docdroid.net/33ZXMdf/gad-2020-y-dna-pdf

    https://www.docdroid.net/9nUkkTu/gad-2020-mtdna-pdf


    The Nevgen haplogroup predictor gives R1b-U152. Any other opinions on what it might be?




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    Any researcher in this day and age who can't snip test the y is in bad shape. When the paper is published, if ever, they should let a better equipped lab have a go at the material so there is no controversy.

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