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Thread: Islamic Cemetery NE Spain

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    Advisor Angela's Avatar
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    Islamic Cemetery NE Spain



    It's quite unexpected as it was thought they spent almost no time in NE Spain.

    https://www.archaeology.org/news/923...lamic-cemetery

    It will be interesting to see genetic analysis of the samples





    TAUSTE, SPAIN—CNN reports that more than 4,500 graves have been identified at a cemetery in northeastern Spain, in an area thought to have been largely untouched by the Arab invasion of the Iberian peninsula in the early eighth century A.D. Radiocarbon dating suggests the necropolis was in use from the eighth century through the eleventh century A.D. Miriam Pina Pardos of the Anthropological Observatory of the Islamic Necropolis of Tauste said that more than 400 of the graves have been exhumed, and all of the bodies had been buried facing southeast toward Mecca, according to Islamic customs. “We can see there was a big Muslim population here in Tauste from the beginning of the presence of Muslims in Spain,” explained archaeologist Eva Gimenez. “It is very important—the 400 Muslim tombs show the people lived here for centuries.”


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    Tauste passed to Christian domination in 1121 ... there were several centuries of Islamic domination ..

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    Yes, Mudéjars were numerous in Aragon, and the expulsion of the Moriscos (those of their descendants who had converted, at least on face value, to Christianity) dealt a profound blow to the economy of this area of Spain. In Valencia just to the south of Aragon they had a majority of Mudéjars for over a century after the reconquest.

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    We should expect for those remains to be a mixture of e-m81+ j1
    With a touch of r1b 🤔
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tauste


    P.s
    And maybe some e-v65
    Last edited by kingjohn; 01-12-20 at 14:53.
    Sefhardi, aschenazi, mizrahi, bulgarian
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y62418*/
    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/
    Eurogenes k13 updated shortest distance:
    4.70345618
    Greek_andros_island

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    I saw it on the TV news a few weeks ago and they said they were local Islamists I saw it on the TV news a few weeks ago and they said they were local Islamists in other documentaries they said they were of African descent so we will have to wait for the genetic results.


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    It is not surprissing in that area. It would be rare in Catalunya but in Aragon was well known the arabic presence. In a little country near Tauste, in La Rioja there are an islamic castle, one of the northern in the peninsula.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Quijote View Post
    It is not surprissing in that area. It would be rare in Catalunya but in Aragon was well known the arabic presence. In a little country near Tauste, in La Rioja there are an islamic castle, one of the northern in the peninsula.
    It is very strange for a Spaniard to use such terminology to refer to a region even when some of them would not all have been a Kingdom at some point in history. And precisely seeing it used for La Rioja in no way I have ever seen it used even to refer to some past episode by any Spanish person in any article or commentary.


    UAB researchers excavate the largest Islamic site in Catalonia

    The research group of Agricultural Archaeology of the Middle Ages, of the Department of Sciences of the Antiquity and the Middle Ages of the UAB, is excavating the Plan of Almatà (s.IX-XII, Balaguer), the biggest site of the Andalusi period in Catalonia. It is one of the largest Andalusian archaeological sites in the Iberian Peninsula, with 27 ha of extension.


    https://www.uab.cat/web/sala-de-pren...=1345795274800

    The Black Tower 1145 AD


    The Black Tower has its origin in the defense tower that the abbot ordered to be built ... against the incursions of the Arabs.

    It is in the province of Barcelona. I myself have been in front of it dozens of times when, for personal reasons, I have lived in Barcelona and I had never thought of it as a fortification for such a purpose and I learned almost nothing of what it was.
    Last edited by Carlos; 21-12-20 at 01:07.

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    Most of the Mediterranean coasts had defensive towers against the incursions of "Saracen" pirates.

    My particular coast is riddled with them. They would give the alarm so people could flee to the castles. Otherwise they risked being taken as slaves. In the south where it was even worse the coast was depopulated and the "towns" were relocated inland.

    We always know their origin because they're known as "torre saracena" even if now a hotel or whatever.



    That's different than an actual invasion or takeover of territory, however, as happened in Spain, even Catalonia it seems, and Sicily.

    There was one such Saracen "kingdom" in the northern Med. It's called Fraxinetum, but it was short lived; about one hundred years. They actually came by way of Spain.

    https://themuslimtimes.info/2017/11/...tury-provence/

    Parts of Languedoc also came under their control for a short time; again, about one hundred years. Islamic burials have also been found there.
    http://www.midi-france.info/1011_moors.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Most of the Mediterranean coasts had defensive towers against the incursions of "Saracen" pirates.

    My particular coast is riddled with them. They would give the alarm so people could flee to the castles. Otherwise they risked being taken as slaves. In the south where it was even worse the coast was depopulated and the "towns" were relocated inland.

    We always know their origin because they're known as "torre saracena" even if now a hotel or whatever.



    That's different than an actual invasion or takeover of territory, however, as happened in Spain, even Catalonia it seems, and Sicily.

    There was one such Saracen "kingdom" in the northern Med. It's called Fraxinetum, but it was short lived; about one hundred years. They actually came by way of Spain.

    https://themuslimtimes.info/2017/11/...tury-provence/

    Parts of Languedoc also came under their control for a short time; again, about one hundred years. Islamic burials have also been found there.
    http://www.midi-france.info/1011_moors.htm

    maybe it has a connection to the e-m81 that was found in nimes

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0148583

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    maybe it has a connection to the e-m81 that was found in nimes

    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0148583
    Indeed. I don't think all the E-M81 in France is recent, although the percentage that is ancient is, I'm sure, quite small in comparison to that of recent immigrants.

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    Yes some branches
    Are recent most of them are from
    400-600Ad late antiquity roman period
    Rather than moorish ( acording to yfull which is a mess right now) 😉

    P.s
    So they are at least like 1400-1600 years on the french yard

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    Well, there are a hell of a lot of North African men in certain parts of France, many of whom carry E-M81, and they came within the last 100 years.

    Trust me; I'm in Marseilles and other parts of southern France every year, and sometimes you would swear you were in North Africa. You should drive through the outer suburbs of Paris, too, the ones the tourists don't see.

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    In Spain the same thing happens, mainly in urban areas of the main cities in a more massive way, but you can already see them in any town. Most of them are Berbers; although I have also known them to claim to be Arabs. A large number of Pakistanis and in lesser numbers Algerians, say that there are already Turks, perhaps they should be much less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Yes some branches
    Are recent most of them are from
    400-600Ad late antiquity roman period
    Rather than moorish ( acording to yfull which is a mess right now) 😉

    P.s
    So they are at least like 1400-1600 years on the french yard
    We should assume certain migration happened anytime "after" the actual TMRCA of the branch, not necessarily "at" the TMRCA. That's generally speaking.
    Of course, when possible, some hypotheses involving more specific periods could emerge, based on wider phylogeny, on what we know about historical movements and on and on.

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