Hillary Hayward-Thomas

[Jovialis]

Normally, I try to insulate myself from celebrity trash news, because Hollywood is full of contemptable, pathetic people. But this one caught my eye. Apparently the wife of Alec Baldwin has been faking her Spanish heritage.



Apparently she is just a WASP with a tan. But claims that she was born in Mallorca, Spain. She has come forward to say this was a lie.

[Maciamo]

What's the point of faking one's heritage, I wonder?

[Jovialis]

What's the point of faking one's heritage, I wonder?

She probably has some deep-seated personal issues. She pretended she didn't know the English word for "cucumber" to further promote this lie, along with a fake accent:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...r-English.html

I think most of these Hollywood celebrity types are pretty twisted, tbh. Many of them abuse drugs. Also, it seems that many are subjected to sexually provocations from people with power in the industry (i.e. Harvey Weinstein). Which seems like it is just the tip of the iceberg.

Here is a more recent incident, involving another Executive producer:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/22/m...l-assault.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_in_the_American_film_industry

Also, it is probably an effort to make herself appear to be more exotic, and thus more marketable to her audience.

[Angela]

She probably has some deep-seated personal issues. She pretended she didn't know the English word for "cucumber" to further promote this lie, along with a fake accent:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...r-English.html

I think most of these Hollywood celebrity types are pretty twisted, tbh. Many of them abuse drugs. Also, it seems that many are subjected to sexually provocations from people with power in the industry (i.e. Harvey Weinstein). Which seems like it is just the tip of the iceberg.

Here is a more recent incident, involving another Executive producer:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/22/m...l-assault.html

Also, it is probably an effort to make herself appear to be more exotic, and thus more marketable to her audience.

Most of the ones I've heard about, it is indeed "marketing", I think. It's to get into great universities when your SAT scores aren't high enough, or get hired as an academic, or for a good business position. It's what Elizabeth Warren did to a certain extent.

Affirmative action has a lot to answer for...

Heck, Al Sharpton of Tawana Brawley "fame" not only held up big companies for millions in donations to his "charity", but got them to set up virtual quota systems, all in return for him not calling for protests about their "racist" policies.

[Jovialis]

Most of the ones I've heard about, it is indeed "marketing", I think. It's to get into great universities when your SAT scores aren't high enough, or get hired as an academic, or for a good business position. It's what Elizabeth Warren did to a certain extent.

Affirmative action has a lot to answer for...

Heck, Al Sharpton of Tawana Brawley "fame" not only held up big companies for millions in donations to his "charity", but got them to set up virtual quota systems, all in return for him not calling for protests about their "racist" policies.

Indeed, there is an effort to include more POC in Hollywood films. Even films with historical settings where it would seem highly unlikely for there to be POC. Thus she probably did it to make her career more viable.

[Jovialis]

People should also ask themselves, what kind of a man is Alec Baldwin to go along with this? To have children with a woman that would lie to everyone's face about her own heritage. These people really have no sense of pride, honor, or integrity. They just mindlessly regurgitate pseudo-morals for a living.

[Angela]

Indeed, there is an effort to include more POC in Hollywood films. Even films with historical settings where it would seem highly unlikely for there to be POC. Thus she probably did it to make her career more viable.

It's even worse in England. A recent romance (Netflix) set in the Regency Era of England has a black Duke who is the object of pursuit of all the ladies. Don't get me wrong; he's gorgeous, charming, plays the part well, but I just couldn't suspend my disbelief that far. There are plenty of films which can be made where black actors can have prominent roles. Why do something silly like this? Does it also go only one way?

Even more troublesome is a Masterpiece series set in India called Beecham House. The English all treat the Indians wonderfully. An old English woman from Britain is thrilled with her half caste grandson, and wants her other son to do the "right thing" and marry the Indian serving girl he has impregnated.

It's a total distortion of history. Had it been like that perhaps there would never have been the Sepoy uprising and all its bloodshed. It's history as they wish it had been. Heck, it's history as "I" wish it had been, but it's a lie. Half-castes were outcastes; Anglo-Indians, forever held apart. Racism and ill treatment were rampant.

For goodness sakes, is "wokeness" going to attempt to destroy what we know of our past? Surely, if we truly want an "equal" society, we should know that it wasn't always equal. Otherwise, what are all the protests for? Aren't they shooting themselves in the foot?

[Jovialis]

I have noticed that the British are really trying hard to be the "wokest" of them all. Troy: Fall of a City is the epitome of this foolishness.

[Jovialis]

Given what we now know about Mycenaean genetics, I think the cast of the Sopranos would have been better suited for Troy: Fall of a City. :)

[Jovialis]

Someone had tried to explain it to me that it was like the Opera, where it didn't matter who was playing who. However, I saw a production of Porgy and Bess, and all of the actors were black, except for the police who were white. Moreover, when everyone came out for a bow, the audience booed the actors that played the police. I found that to really be uncalled for, they are merely playing a role. So if it was really about just letting the most talented people play the role, while adjusting for inclusiveness, why couldn't some of the slaves, or police be played by other people from different races?

[Maciamo]

It's even worse in England. A recent romance (Netflix) set in the Regency Era of England has a black Duke who is the object of pursuit of all the ladies. Don't get me wrong; he's gorgeous, charming, plays the part well, but I just couldn't suspend my disbelief that far. There are plenty of films which can be made where black actors can have prominent roles. Why do something silly like this? Does it also go only one way?

I suppose that you are referring to Bridgerton on Netflix? I stopped in the middle of the first episode when I saw that Queen Charlotte was played by an actress of mixed African ancestry, that she had an East Asian lady-in-waiting, and that many other members of the early 19th-century British aristocracy were Black.

The series was filmed in England with many British actors, but I think that the person responsible for that eccentric Woke cast is the African-American producer Shonda Rhimes, who also produced Grey's Anatomy, in which many of the doctors are Black.

[Maciamo]

I have noticed that the British are really trying hard to be the "wokest" of them all. Troy: Fall of a City is the epitome of this foolishness.

Agreed. I also started watching but stopped after seeing the ridiculously unhistorical cast.

[Maciamo]

Given what we now know about Mycenaean genetics, think the cast of the Sopranos would have been better suited for Troy: Fall of a City. :)

Maybe, but I can't imagine James Gandolfini, Tony Sirico, or Dominic Chianese playing Achilles or Hector (or Paris for that matter).

[Jovialis]

Maybe, but I can't imagine James Gandolfini, Tony Sirico, or Dominic Chianese playing Achilles or Hector (or Paris for that matter).

I think James Gandolfini with beard would have made a good Agamemnon though. He had a barrel chest like the actor from Troy (2004).

[Angela]

Someone had tried to explain it to me that it was like the Opera, where it didn't matter who was playing who. However, I saw a production of Porgy and Bess, and all of the actors were black, except for the police who were white. Moreover, when everyone came out for a bow, the audience booed the actors that played the police. I found that to really be uncalled for, they are merely playing a role. So if it was really about just letting the most talented people play the role, while adjusting for inclusiveness, why couldn't some of the slaves, or police be played by other people from different races?

Opera is different. For one thing there are a very, very, limited number of people in the world with voices which can carry it off, both in terms of natural talent and relentless and difficult years of training. You have to use the voices available.

Plus, the small group which actually appreciates opera knows that it is all about the music and you have to suspend your disbelief in terms of what the singers look like, particularly as a lot of operatic singers believe that if they're too thin, it will ruin their voices. So, you have Caballe Montserrat and Luciano Pavarotti in their middle years and when obese playing young romantic love interests. There's nothing to be done about that, but in Aida, for example, I know some make-up used to be used. When Leontyne Price showed up on the scene, obviously she played it, but she couldn't play in every performance of it.

Renata Tebaldi as Aida




Most of the time, the small group of real aficionados are listening to the music at home. This is not a mass market medium any longer; people are too ignorant. However, even for those who know enough to separate the "show" from reality and want to hear certain voices in person, it can still be difficult to suspend disbelief sometimes. The spectacle doesn't always make up for it. There are times I actually prefer to listen to a really good studio performance.

Likewise, there are few black classically trained actors with the command of Shakespearean language to play Othello. In Olivier's day there were none. So, I didn't mind Laurence Olivier playing him in make-up. It adds an added level of drama if it is actually played by someone with a bit of an African appearance (if he's good in the part), but it's not necessary as long as they make some effort to try to change the appearance of the actor playing the part.

I mean, are we supposed to take seriously some blonde, blue eyed Scandinavian as Othello saying: " "Her name, that was as fresh as Dian's visage, is now begrimed and black as mine own face" (III.3.389-91)"



There are many, many parts where the race is irrelevant, others where race is important. To further some agenda film and tv shouldn't be made ridiculous and nor should the masses be given a completely distorted view of history.

[Angela]

Well, James Gandolfini (half Emilian) is too fair, but they could have darkened him up, I suppose. He'd do, but the face has a lot of Central Europe in it.



With a really good tan maybe Robert Loggia could have played King Priam, if we assume they had a bit more steppe?



Maybe Chianese's face is too narrow and some of his features too refined, and he's definitely too fair skinned, but they could darken him up, put a beard on him and he could be a passable Menelaus, perhaps; an old man who can't keep a young wife happy. I don't think he and Agamemnon were in the heat of the battle if I remember correctly.



Most of the parts are for warriors, and Mafia guys didn't usually spend half their lives in the gym, so there's that.

However, if someone like Tom Hiddleston, who normally looks twig like, could jack himself up to play certain parts I think some of the Sopranos characters could have done it too.

So, I don't see why Michael Imperioli couldn't have played one of the warriors; he has the serious acting ability to do it as well.


Or he might have been a good Odysseus.

They could have gone to Southern Italy too:
Giuseppe Zeno-


Daniele Pecci as Paris


Don't know if DeRossi can act, but when younger he wouldn't have been a bad Achilles...

Helen:

We musn't forget what the Mycenaeans looked like, after all:

[Maciamo]

I think James Gandolfini with beard would have made a good Agamemnon though. He had a barrel chest like the actor from Troy (2004).

The role of Agamemnon would be fine. I just didn't picture him as one of the warriors.

[suebiking]

About these recent casting issues, and the apparent correctness achieved, I along with everybody else know that us humans can be stupid at times (I am myself many times) but this woke thing makes me believe that however stupid I have been in my life there's always somebody who surpasses me.
I was taught since my childhood that certain matters like racism should be looked upon with disdain and I have always done so but I feel that certain people recently don't seem to care about the real problems that some people face do to their race.
To me, the real problem with racism is not these little petty issues with wokeness in movies and people being called out for saying something that offends others. Really, people should choose their fights better, there are people these days all over the world that are killed because of their ethnicity or put into work camps like in China and there are these people getting offended by a twit or by a facebook post (to those people I say grow up and help those who are really in need).
And, I might seem to some a little naive on this but what is it really different from being discriminated because of your race, or because of your height or political opinion or even your family background (personally I have never seen a difference and if someone has please enlighten me, I have always been proud of the fact that an argument well constructed can change my opinion on anything, even in theological matters.
This being said, I wish you all a good New Year and may new genetic studies keep coming.

[suebiking]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lO_u37JWZo&t=930s
Sorry for posting again but this is a video about the matter which I discussed before but about the anne boleyn casting.
I don't want to go anymore offtopic bu I thought that some of you might like to see a well constructed argument about this issue of woke casting.
Again, Happy New Year

[Angela]

^^Such stupidity...nobody guessed that Merle Oberon was Anglo-Indian.

Plus, the point is that she looked European, so there was no dissonance with history. Period dramas are just that....reflections of a past period...there should be as much verisimilitude as possible.

[Angela]

All I can say to the younger among you is: home school your kids. The Barbarians are not at the gates; they're in the citadels.


Quotes from actual teachers.“Be like Odysseus and embrace the long haul to liberation (and then take the Odyssey out of your curriculum because it’s trash)” “Hahaha,” “Very proud to say we got the Odyssey removed from the curriculum this year!”

[Jovialis]

All I can say to the younger among you is: home school your kids. The Barbarians are not at the gates; they're in the citadels.


Quotes from actual teachers.“Be like Odysseus and embrace the long haul to liberation (and then take the Odyssey out of your curriculum because it’s trash)” “Hahaha,” “Very proud to say we got the Odyssey removed from the curriculum this year!”

I am going to be sure to read the classics to my children at bed time. I will probably start with the children's version, but then encourage them to read the actual versions.

I recall from the 1980s documentary, that Heinrich Schliemann became fascinated with Troy from an illustration he saw from a story book, as a child.

[suebiking]

^^Such stupidity...nobody guessed that Merle Oberon was Anglo-Indian.

Plus, the point is that she looked European, so there was no dissonance with history. Period dramas are just that....reflections of a past period...there should be as much verisimilitude as possible.

Yes, I do agree completely, what matters in period dramas is that the casting does not affect our immersion into the story like having a totally different looking actor playing the role of a known historical figure.
It is like the casting discussed in other forum, I do not care at all that for instance Gal Gadot has the same supposedly genetic background as Cleopatra would, to me she does not look anything like the part she is playing.