Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 27

Thread: Are Italians discriminated against in Australia?

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-11-19
    Posts
    63


    Country: Brazil



    Are Italians discriminated against in Australia?



    I was startled to see news about the seemingly historic discrimination of Italians in Australia.
    the fact that an Italian man was killed is bizarre.


    Source: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...udanese-people

  2. #2
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    18,939


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrique View Post
    I was startled to see news about the seemingly historic discrimination of Italians in Australia.
    the fact that an Italian man was killed is bizarre.


    Source: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...udanese-people
    Old news. Happened in the U.S. too and against lots of Europeans, including the Portuguese.

    They were so associated with being dark skinned that the Melungeon communities in the south (a mix of British and Black), used to explain their appearance by saying they were of Portuguese descent. People in the Far East who were Eurasia used the same ploy. I guess they were the darkest Europeans they could think of.

    Of course, Spanish immigrants mainly didn't come here; they went to Central and South America, so there is less information about them.

    With Italians a good bit of it was linked to the fact that the immigrants to north eastern factories were associated with anarchists and socialists.

    Perhaps the immigrants who faced the most discrimination in the U.S. were the Irish. A whole political party was formed to stop them from coming here.

    https://www.history.com/news/when-am...refugee-crisis

    Really, Henrique, you're going to have to do better than this if you want to t-roll here. There's no substitute for solid historical knowledge.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-11-19
    Posts
    63


    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Old news. Happened in the U.S. too and against lots of Europeans, including the Portuguese.

    They were so associated with being dark skinned that the Melungeon communities in the south (a mix of British and Black), used to explain their appearance by saying they were of Portuguese descent. People in the Far East who were Eurasia used the same ploy. I guess they were the darkest Europeans they could think of.

    Of course, Spanish immigrants mainly didn't come here; they went to Central and South America, so there is less information about them.

    With Italians a good bit of it was linked to the fact that the immigrants to north eastern factories were associated with anarchists and socialists.

    Perhaps the immigrants who faced the most discrimination in the U.S. were the Irish. A whole political party was formed to stop them from coming here.

    https://www.history.com/news/when-am...refugee-crisis

    Really, Henrique, you're going to have to do better than this if you want to t-roll here. There's no substitute for solid historical knowledge.
    Trolling? What would be the reason for being 'trolling Italians' if I myself also have Italian ancestry? It is not old news for me and it really caught my attention. Detail: the link I published also mentions that other southern Europeans were discriminated against. If you somehow saw it as a stupid Iberian-Italian war, it wouldn't make any sense. I am a Brazilian with triracial ancestry (including Italian) and do you think I am 'trolling Italians' for talking about discrimination? Someone has really been traumatizing you in these forums, but leave me out of this. Be more cautious before projecting your thoughts on others and do just what you think someone else is doing.

  4. #4
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    18,939


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Henrique View Post
    Trolling? What would be the reason for being 'trolling Italians' if I myself also have Italian ancestry? It is not old news for me and it really caught my attention. Detail: the link I published also mentions that other southern Europeans were discriminated against. If you somehow saw it as a stupid Iberian-Italian war, it wouldn't make any sense. I am a Brazilian with triracial ancestry (including Italian) and do you think I am 'trolling Italians' for talking about discrimination? Someone has really been traumatizing you in these forums, but leave me out of this. Be more cautious before projecting your thoughts on others and do just what you think someone else is doing.
    OK. Henrique. I'll take your word on your ancestry and you're as innocent as a lamb. My apologies.

    I still don't, however, know why this is all such news for you and you had to go to Australia to find it.

    Certainly as a Brazilian you should know your own history.

    Perhaps you should read up on the history of the first Italian workers who went to Brazil. They were treated like animals and died like flies.

    "During the end of the 19th century, denouncement of bad conditions in Brazil increased in the press. Reacting to the public clamor and many proved cases of mistreatment of Italian immigrants, the government of Italy issued in 1902 the Prinetti Decree forbidding subsidized immigration to Brazil. In consequence, the number of Italian immigrants in Brazil fell drastically in the beginning of the 20th century, but the wave of Italian immigration continued until 1920"

    "Some of the immigrants settled in the colonies in Southern Brazil. However, most of them settled in Southeastern Brazil (mainly in the State of São Paulo). At first, the government was responsible for bringing the immigrants (in most cases, paying for their transportation by ship), but later, the farmers were responsible for making contracts with immigrants or specialized companies in recruiting Italian workers. Many posters were spread in Italy, with pictures of Brazil, selling the idea that everybody could become rich there by working with coffee, which was called by the Italian immigrants the green gold. Most coffee plantations were in the States of São Paulo and Minas Gerais, and in a smaller proportion also in the States of Espírito Santo and Rio de Janeiro.Rio de Janeiro was declining in the 19th century as a farming producer, and São Paulo had already taken the lead as a coffee producer/exporter in the early 20th century, as well as big producer of sugar and other important crops. Thus, migrants were naturally more attracted to the State of São Paulo and the southern states.
    Italians migrated to Brazil as families.[39] The colono, as a rural immigrant was called, had to sign a contract with the farmer to work in the coffee plantation for a minimum period of time. However, the situation was not easy. Many Brazilian farmers were used to command slaves and treated the immigrants as indentured servants.
    In Southern Brazil, the Italian immigrants were living in relatively well-developed colonies, but in Southeastern Brazil they were living in semislavery conditions in the coffee plantations. Many rebellions against Brazilian farmers occurred, and public denouncements caused great commotion in Italy, forcing the Italian government to issue the Prinetti Decree, which established barriers to immigration to Brazil."

    As for the U.S. you might look up Sacco and Vanzetti.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-11-19
    Posts
    63


    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Old news. Happened in the U.S. too and against lots of Europeans, including the Portuguese.

    They were so associated with being dark skinned that the Melungeon communities in the south (a mix of British and Black), used to explain their appearance by saying they were of Portuguese descent. People in the Far East who were Eurasia used the same ploy. I guess they were the darkest Europeans they could think of.

    Of course, Spanish immigrants mainly didn't come here; they went to Central and South America, so there is less information about them.

    With Italians a good bit of it was linked to the fact that the immigrants to north eastern factories were associated with anarchists and socialists.

    Perhaps the immigrants who faced the most discrimination in the U.S. were the Irish. A whole political party was formed to stop them from coming here.

    https://www.history.com/news/when-am...refugee-crisis

    Really, Henrique, you're going to have to do better than this if you want to t-roll here. There's no substitute for solid historical knowledge.
    I have European (including Italians from the whole maternal side) AFRICAN and native ancestry. I don't have time for the idiotic war between Iberians and Italians. I don't give a shit about this silly dispute over pigmentation. Give me a break. This is about DISCRIMINATION !

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-11-19
    Posts
    63


    Country: Brazil



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    OK. Henrique. I'll take your word on your ancestry and you're as innocent as a lamb. My apologies.

    I still don't, however, know why this is all such news for you and you had to go to Australia to find it.

    Certainly as a Brazilian you should know your own history.

    Perhaps you should read up on the history of the first Italian workers who went to Brazil. They were treated like animals and died like flies.

    "During the end of the 19th century, denouncement of bad conditions in Brazil increased in the press. Reacting to the public clamor and many proved cases of mistreatment of Italian immigrants, the government of Italy issued in 1902 the Prinetti Decree forbidding subsidized immigration to Brazil. In consequence, the number of Italian immigrants in Brazil fell drastically in the beginning of the 20th century, but the wave of Italian immigration continued until 1920"

    "Some of the immigrants settled in the colonies in Southern Brazil. However, most of them settled in Southeastern Brazil (mainly in the State of São Paulo). At first, the government was responsible for bringing the immigrants (in most cases, paying for their transportation by ship), but later, the farmers were responsible for making contracts with immigrants or specialized companies in recruiting Italian workers. Many posters were spread in Italy, with pictures of Brazil, selling the idea that everybody could become rich there by working with coffee, which was called by the Italian immigrants the green gold. Most coffee plantations were in the States of São Paulo and Minas Gerais, and in a smaller proportion also in the States of Espírito Santo and Rio de Janeiro.Rio de Janeiro was declining in the 19th century as a farming producer, and São Paulo had already taken the lead as a coffee producer/exporter in the early 20th century, as well as big producer of sugar and other important crops. Thus, migrants were naturally more attracted to the State of São Paulo and the southern states.
    Italians migrated to Brazil as families.[39] The colono, as a rural immigrant was called, had to sign a contract with the farmer to work in the coffee plantation for a minimum period of time. However, the situation was not easy. Many Brazilian farmers were used to command slaves and treated the immigrants as indentured servants.
    In Southern Brazil, the Italian immigrants were living in relatively well-developed colonies, but in Southeastern Brazil they were living in semislavery conditions in the coffee plantations. Many rebellions against Brazilian farmers occurred, and public denouncements caused great commotion in Italy, forcing the Italian government to issue the Prinetti Decree, which established barriers to immigration to Brazil."

    As for the U.S. you might look up Sacco and Vanzetti.

    I commented on Australia precisely because it is something new for me (don't assume everyone knows everything you know) I already knew about the Irish issue in the USA, but not about discrimination against southern Europeans in Australia. I found it shocking that a man was killed. I saw the news in the news recommendations about the psychopath who killed Muslims in a mosque in Australia.

  7. #7
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-11-19
    Posts
    63


    Country: Brazil



    And yes, I know my country's story. I even know that the Portuguese raped thousands of native and slave women. I also know that there was a RACIST STATE POLICY to attract European immigrants to Brazil after the end of slavery (they did not provide jobs for blacks) There was even a eugenic society in São Paulo. There is no 'obscure anti-Italian agenda' here. It wouldn't make any sense to someone like me to get into this game (which I've been unfortunate enough to see in some forums)

  8. #8
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    4,763

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Henrique View Post
    And yes, I know my country's story. I even know that the Portuguese raped thousands of native and slave women. I also know that there was a RACIST STATE POLICY to attract European immigrants to Brazil after the end of slavery (they did not provide jobs for blacks) There was even a eugenic society in São Paulo. There is no 'obscure anti-Italian agenda' here. It wouldn't make any sense to someone like me to get into this game (which I've been unfortunate enough to see in some forums)
    There was an incident in the USA back in the 1980s, in a little Portuguese community in New England, where a group of men in a bar raped a woman.

    The trials attracted international attention. People in the large Portuguese community of New Bedford felt the case was a catalyst for stirring ethnic discrimination and anti-immigrant sentiment.[4]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheryl_Araujo
    The whole thing became a very intense media circus, and the people tried to blame it on the fact that they are Portuguese! Obviously, this is insane, and completely racist. There is a Netflix series called Trial by Media, which discusses it.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    12-11-19
    Posts
    36


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    trial by media, it happens all the time, even more now than then

  10. #10
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    4,763

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    trial by media, it happens all the time, even more now than then
    I agree, and it is becoming very dangerous.

  11. #11
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,589

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    trial by media, it happens all the time, even more now than then

    Trial by media today..............is like the time of the inquisition ............and we know how 100% fake that was
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-Y33791
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    589


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Henrique View Post
    I was startled to see news about the seemingly historic discrimination of Italians in Australia.
    the fact that an Italian man was killed is bizarre.


    Source: https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...udanese-people

    i don't think it is really surprising when you see how racist some people from europe are even against people from near east. it's always the same, and it has always been the same. people will hate everyone as soon as they do not fit their stereotypes. especially with this shitty race talk going on everywhere. like for example in the US were people constantly need to point out the demographic changes.

  13. #13
    Moderator Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Location
    Ara Pacis
    Posts
    1,248


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    Very old news from over two years ago.

    I have several Italian friends who have moved to Australia recently and they have all told me that there is no such problem of discrimination.

  14. #14
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    18,939


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Some deranged lunatic committing such an act is far from proof of discrimination in Australia or anywhere else. We know what actual, wide-spread discrimination looks like.

    The Guardian, of course, as is to be expected, uses any such occurrence to prove that all right leaning populists are racists. Left leaning deranged people like the one who went to a softball field and tried to shoot as many Republican Congressmen as he could, and almost killed Representative Scalise are never mentioned. or other occasions like it.

    Be careful where you get your news and the slant which is put upon it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    589


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Some deranged lunatic committing such an act is far from proof of discrimination in Australia or anywhere else. We know what actual, wide-spread discrimination looks like.
    of course they are not representative for the whole populations and do not show wide-spread discrimination but these incidents still show the underlying sentiments that still exist.

  16. #16
    Moderator Pax Augusta's Avatar
    Join Date
    23-06-14
    Location
    Ara Pacis
    Posts
    1,248


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: Italy



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The Guardian, of course, as is to be expected, uses any such occurrence to prove that all right leaning populists are racists. Left leaning deranged people like the one who went to a softball field and tried to shoot as many Republican Congressmen as he could, and almost killed Representative Scalise are never mentioned. or other occasions like it.

    Be careful where you get your news and the slant which is put upon it.

    Yes the Guardian article, which is an opinion, is clearly politically-driven.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Carlos's Avatar
    Join Date
    26-09-11
    Posts
    2,658

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-V22/YF66572
    MtDNA haplogroup
    J1c5c1

    Country: Spain



    This news was in the Spanish media nationally for several days.


    Evidently it is not a question of discrimination to Italians only for being Italian, equally it would have happened if the girl had been French, but who reads this news when 100 years pass I do not know what will think.


    After the altercation I received orders by phone and then no one came to pick them up.


    I was in Barcelona for a few days and I went to the restaurant to show my support but it was closed that day. I imagine you have been very scared.

    This situation in Barcelona a few decades ago would not have happened but there are already many of us who for decades have been warning and giving alarm signals of the nationalist drift in Catalonia, but unfortunately they thought it was Castilian arrogance, so there you have it.




    Speaks Catalan or emigrates. In Catalonia in Catalan.



    Michela then asked the client if she could speak to him in Catalan, but more slowly, so that she could understand him. The situation became more tense when other diners came to defend her. According to the owner's story, the client left in a bad mood and threatened her. As a result of the graffiti, the owner of Marinella says she has filed a complaint against this man.

    https://elpais.com/espana/catalunya/...n-catalan.html

  18. #18
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    4,763

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1a2b1 (R-F1794)
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Some deranged lunatic committing such an act is far from proof of discrimination in Australia or anywhere else. We know what actual, wide-spread discrimination looks like.

    The Guardian, of course, as is to be expected, uses any such occurrence to prove that all right leaning populists are racists. Left leaning deranged people like the one who went to a softball field and tried to shoot as many Republican Congressmen as he could, and almost killed Representative Scalise are never mentioned. or other occasions like it.

    Be careful where you get your news and the slant which is put upon it.
    That was around the time that Maxine Waters told her constituency to get in the face of Trump's people, and the GOP. Why is she not being charged with inciting violence?

    Or the black ex-solider that killed 6 police officers in Dallas, back in 2016 at a BLM protest. He wanted to kill white police officers especially.

    The hypocrisy is disgusting.
    Last edited by Jovialis; 18-01-21 at 17:45.

  19. #19
    Regular Member real expert's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-09-16
    Posts
    148


    Country: Germany



    Aside from ethnicity, the Catholic faith of the Italian or Irish migrants, for instance, played also a significant role for their discrimination in the USA. In addition to that, many Italian and Irish migrants were very poor and came from rural places. In general people who are poverty-stricken, and so-called "peasants" will face discrimination regardless of their ethnic background. So, it's not only the "wrong" ethnicity that causes discrimination. Besides, the WASP were the top dogs in the USA and Germans and Swedes were also below them. In Australia the majority was also Protestant. Anyway, today Italo-Australians are well integrated, and regarded just as white Australians. Same goes for Canada. On the other hand, the Australian Aborigines who have gained more acceptance, are still pretty marginalized and live as bad as Native Americans in the reservation.

  20. #20
    Regular Member real expert's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-09-16
    Posts
    148


    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    of course they are not representative for the whole populations and do not show wide-spread discrimination but these incidents still show the underlying sentiments that still exist.

    Believe it or not, but Europe today is less racist than some countries in Africa, Asia, the Middle East or Latin America. Unfortunately, racism and colorism exist among all ethnicities and nations.

  21. #21
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,589

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    Aside from ethnicity, the Catholic faith of the Italian or Irish migrants, for instance, played also a significant role for their discrimination in the USA. In addition to that, many Italian and Irish migrants were very poor and came from rural places. In general people who are poverty-stricken, and so-called "peasants" will face discrimination regardless of their ethnic background. So, it's not only the "wrong" ethnicity that causes discrimination. Besides, the WASP were the top dogs in the USA and Germans and Swedes were also below them. In Australia the majority was also Protestant. Anyway, today Italo-Australians are well integrated, and regarded just as white Australians. Same goes for Canada. On the other hand, the Australian Aborigines who have gained more acceptance, are still pretty marginalized and live as bad as Native Americans in the reservation.
    Religion is not a factor in Australia now as it was in the beginning under English rule .................when protestant English transported catholic Irish to Australia.

    There is stated that no religion is part of Australia Constitution .......it is blank .............over the last 3 census ( 1 every 10 years ), the % of people that follow No-religion in Australia has increased and sits second on the chart at 30 something % , christian is first with 54% .........................

    There is also a push from some societies of the puplic, that until all religious groups/instituations prove that they have gender equality and a woman can eventually lead a religious group/instituation , then the push from these societies is to target these religious institutions...but this is another side issue in Australia

  22. #22
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    18,939


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    Aside from ethnicity, the Catholic faith of the Italian or Irish migrants, for instance, played also a significant role for their discrimination in the USA. In addition to that, many Italian and Irish migrants were very poor and came from rural places. In general people who are poverty-stricken, and so-called "peasants" will face discrimination regardless of their ethnic background. So, it's not only the "wrong" ethnicity that causes discrimination. Besides, the WASP were the top dogs in the USA and Germans and Swedes were also below them. In Australia the majority was also Protestant. Anyway, today Italo-Australians are well integrated, and regarded just as white Australians. Same goes for Canada. On the other hand, the Australian Aborigines who have gained more acceptance, are still pretty marginalized and live as bad as Native Americans in the reservation.
    Only slight addition: German Catholics did not face the same kind of discrimination as the Irish and the Italians. I don't know why, as the Irish were also Northern European looking, and, in fact, often fairer than the Palatine Germans, unless it was because the English attitude toward the Irish as ungovernable savages was transported to the U.S. with the original settlers, especially the Ulster Scots-Irish who were such a big factor in so many parts of the country.

    Then too, when many of them came they were fleeing the potato famine, and were malnourished, wearing ragged clothing, and suspected of harboring disease. The "No Irish Need Apply" for both jobs and housing were real as were signs saying No entrance for Negroes and the Irish. An entire political party, the "Know
    Nothings", had as one of its major platforms, the stopping of immigration from Ireland.
    Last edited by Angela; 26-01-21 at 22:44.

  23. #23
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    05-09-16
    Posts
    883

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E-s10483>by96055
    MtDNA haplogroup
    from plovdiv h3ap

    Country: Uruguay



    I saw yesterday this movie
    Nuovomondo
    https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0465188/
    on a sicilian family
    Who migrated to usa ellis island
    Good movie
    ...👍

    P.s
    It show the harsh jorney
    and the reality faced to them
    In usa back in the day
    Sefhardi, aschenazi, mizrahi, bulgarian
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Y62418*/
    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/

  24. #24
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    18,939


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    I saw yesterday this movie
    Nuovomondo
    https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0465188/
    on a sicilian family
    Who migrated to usa ellis island
    Good movie
    ...������
    P.s
    It show the harsh jorney
    and the reality faced to them
    In usa back in the day
    Yes, I've seen it. It does do a good job of showing their lives and the horrible journey. I just couldn't stand the woman and the relationship story, but I'm a harsh critic always. :)

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    589


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    Believe it or not, but Europe today is less racist than some countries in Africa, Asia, the Middle East or Latin America. Unfortunately, racism and colorism exist among all ethnicities and nations.
    some parts are, i don't think it really applies to whole europe. it's one of the criteria for me between a more advanced society and a more backward one. anyways relativism is not a good idea here. a murderer of 10 is still a murderer even if there is another one who killed 100.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •