The genomic history of the Aegean palatial civilizations.

**Palermo Trapani** · 17-01-21, 18:52

Interesting thread. I saw from Angela's post #21 that Greece_MBA_LOG2 was fairly close to West_Sicily. My Eurogenes K13 and Dodecad Global 13 for these new samples. Both have Log_02 as my closest. Thanks to everyone for the sample coordinates. Cheers, PT.

Distance to:	PalermoTrapani
11.48583911	Greece_MBA_Log02
14.73128643	EBA:Greece_EBA_Kou03
19.50930291	Greece_MBA_Log04
22.06773890	Greece_MBA_Mik15
22.15810687	EBA:Greece_EBA_Kou01
22.18858265	Greece_EBA_Pta08

Dodecad Global 13 Distances.

Distance to:	PalermoTrapani
12.54329303	Log02
17.71794853	Kou03
18.67837520	Kou01
19.27195890	Pta08
19.46929891	Log04
19.91225000	Mik15

**brick** · 17-01-21, 19:01

Distance to:	Greece_MBA_Log02 (Eurogenes K13 Updated)
2.95259208	IT_Romagna
3.13593686	Italian
3.39331696	IT_Tuscan
4.03905930	IT_Umbria
4.20913293	IT_Lazio
4.59830404	IT_Marche
5.17323883	IT_Emilia
5.83922940	Greek_Western-Thrace
6.25199168	France_Corsica
6.30203142	IT_Liguria
7.10985935	Albanian_Tosk
7.15717123	Torbesh_average
7.33418025	Albanian
7.70112329	Albanian_Gheg
8.05681699	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
8.20441497	Greek_Thessaly
8.55922894	Greek_West_Macedonia
8.96763068	IT_Lombardy
9.04089044	Greek_Northeast
9.31016112	Greek_West
9.41627846	Greek
9.44320920	IT_Veneto
9.74846142	Greek_Central_Macedonia
9.85988337	Greek_Peloponnese
9.96484822	IT_Abruzzo
10.32186030	IT_Piedmont
10.48881786	Greek_Athens
10.63293939	IT_Molise
10.80119438	IT_Friuli-VG
10.84329113	Macedonia_south
10.90104582	Greek_Central
10.91875451	IT_Basilicata
10.98925839	Vlach(Aromanian)_average
11.34386178	IT_Apulia
11.55377428	MACEDONIAN_AVERAGE
11.85947925	Macednia_north
11.88318560	Greek_Cyclades
12.26651132	Sicily
12.35061132	France_Provence
12.59483227	Greek_Andros_Island
12.62022979	IT_Trentino
12.63010689	Turk_Makedonya
12.78509679	Greek_Eastern-Thrace
13.45644455	Greek_Ionia
13.47197090	IT_Campania
13.65030036	Bulgaria_Southeastern
13.69302012	Greek_Northern-Thrace
13.92670815	Swiss-Italian2
14.03085885	Bulgaria_Northeastern
14.27838926	Swiss_Italian
14.35592212	Turk_Crete
14.44698584	Bulgaria_Southcentral
14.55892166	Moldova_South_Gagauzia
14.70167678	Bosniak_Sandzak
14.82326212	Bulgaria_Southwestern

Distance to:	Greece_MBA_Log04 (K13 Updated)
7.57147278	Bulgaria_Northeastern
8.07289988	Macedonia_south
8.21144932	MACEDONIAN_AVERAGE
8.32564760	Macednia_north
8.43821071	Vlach(Aromanian)_average
8.53050409	Bulgaria_Southwestern
8.63423998	Albanian_Gheg
8.81241738	Bosniak_Sandzak
8.87257009	Bulgaria_Southeastern
8.98715750	IT_Friuli-VG
9.16182296	Albanian
9.22154542	Bulgaria_average
9.29618739	Romania_Oltenia
9.33978051	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
9.43313310	Bulgaria_Southcentral
9.44151471	Montenegrin
9.46655692	Romania_Wallachia
9.46857434	Torbesh_average
9.52895062	Romania_Muntenia
9.67906633	Greek_Thessaly
9.68180768	Moldova_South_Gagauzia
9.72142994	Greek_West_Macedonia
9.73061149	Turk_Makedonya
9.75858084	Bulgaria_Northcentral
9.76761486	Romania_Dobruja
9.77960633	Greek_Northeast
10.08394764	Romania_Transylvania
10.13963017	Romania_Banat
10.29971844	IT_Veneto
10.32259657	Romania_average
10.38168580	Moldova_South
10.40436927	Italian
10.46156298	Albanian_Tosk
10.50909606	Romania_Crisana
10.93294105	IT_Emilia
10.96091237	IT_Romagna
11.02802339	Romania_Moldavia_South
11.02851305	Greek
11.03121480	Bulgaria_Northwestern
11.06550948	Greek_Central_Macedonia
11.33117381	Turk_Deliorman
11.38935468	Greek_Western-Thrace
11.42264855	Pomak_Bulgaria
11.59688751	IT_Liguria
11.61155028	Serb_south
11.64934333	IT_Tuscan
11.75539025	Greek_Northern-Thrace
11.80457115	Greek_West
11.99857492	IT_Trentino
12.02124786	IT_Umbria
12.26557785	France_Provence
12.32908350	Greek_Peloponnese
12.35167195	IT_Piedmont
12.42856388	IT_Marche
12.62712160	Pomak_Greece

**brick** · 17-01-21, 19:03

Distance to:	Greece_MBA_Mik15 (K13 Updated)
18.52527193	Algerian_Jewish
19.18064650	Moroccan_Jew
19.47616492	Italian_Jewish
22.04608582	Sephardic_Jewish
22.59917919	Tunisian_Jewish
22.62203572	Libyan_Jewish
23.71164060	Greek_Symi_Island
23.97507039	IT_Calabria
24.41921375	Ashkenazi
24.53356476	Algerian
24.59106748	Malta
24.89529875	Moldova_Jewish
25.05905625	Sicily
25.40192512	Sardinia
25.45199992	Tunisian
25.72141131	IT_Campania
25.83348989	France_Corsica
25.83513886	IT_Apulia
25.94076136	Greek_North_Aegean
25.96375936	IT_Molise
26.32854345	IT_Abruzzo
26.58362278	Greek_Dodecanese
27.04873749	IT_Basilicata
27.17688540	Greek_Crete
27.57608565	Mozabite_Berber
27.69486414	Greek_Cyclades
27.77894886	IT_Lazio
27.78684401	Greek_Cypriot
27.81246663	Greek_Chios
27.84034842	Turk_Cypriot
27.84426871	Greek_Ionia
27.93904973	Moroccan
28.15080461	IT_Marche
28.57076653	Greek_Athens
28.77252856	IT_Umbria
29.05162646	Greek_Western-Thrace
29.32869244	IT_Romagna
29.58719656	Greek_Central
29.58854508	IT_Tuscan
29.96353450	Greek_Andros_Island
29.98509797	Italian
30.57933453	Greek_Peloponnese
30.62563795	Albanian_Tosk
30.81097369	Greek_West
31.20275789	Greek_Eastern-Thrace
31.25588905	Samaritan
31.65682075	Greek
31.92177157	Torbesh_average
31.95516234	IT_Emilia
32.05251043	Greek_Thessaly
32.08959800	Greek_Central_Macedonia
32.20669185	Greek_West_Macedonia
32.22759997	Albanian
32.37750145	IT_Liguria
32.50129074	Turk_Crete

Distance to:	Greece_EBA_Pta08
16.32743091	Algerian_Jewish
17.79478294	Italian_Jewish
18.97246162	Moroccan_Jew
19.81873861	Tunisian_Jewish
19.92590776	Libyan_Jewish
20.18929915	Sephardic_Jewish
20.98549976	Greek_Symi_Island
22.20946420	IT_Calabria
22.56049202	Greek_Cypriot
23.31849266	Ashkenazi
23.36526696	Turk_Cypriot
23.39491611	Malta
23.52774107	Moldova_Jewish
23.59130984	Greek_Dodecanese
23.76282811	Greek_North_Aegean
24.45126582	Sicily
24.66351556	Greek_Chios
24.71313011	Greek_Crete
24.74700992	IT_Campania
25.25267709	IT_Apulia
25.68244731	IT_Molise
25.69987549	Tunisian
25.91040525	Samaritan
26.13148484	Algerian
26.26939093	IT_Abruzzo
26.52989634	Greek_Ionia
26.80699722	IT_Basilicata
26.83872575	Greek_Cyclades
27.73495628	Lebanese_Christian
28.01497814	Greek_Athens
28.45815876	Mozabite_Berber
28.74555792	France_Corsica
28.80092707	Moroccan
28.95245240	Greek_Central
29.17121355	Greek_Andros_Island
29.27077211	IT_Lazio
29.38614469	Lebanese_Muslim
29.57332751	IT_Marche
29.59593553	Greek_Cappadocian
29.60140368	Greek_Western-Thrace
29.74945546	Nusayri
29.86855370	Sardinia
30.18337125	Palestinian
30.34125245	Syrian
30.37890057	Greek_Peloponnese
30.41623415	IT_Umbria
30.58644471	Greek_Eastern-Thrace
30.63102349	Lebanese_Druze
30.79019649	Greek_West
31.10842008	Jordanian
31.11073287	IT_Romagna
31.28155687	Albanian_Tosk
31.34539679	Egyptian
31.46955036	Turk_Crete
31.60850518	Greek

Distance to:	EBA:Greece_EBA_Kou01
16.19176643	Algerian_Jewish
17.37221345	Italian_Jewish
19.05658941	Moroccan_Jew
19.43704453	Tunisian_Jewish
19.70652937	Libyan_Jewish
19.86622007	Sephardic_Jewish
20.23696371	Greek_Symi_Island
21.27427320	Greek_Cypriot
21.80151830	IT_Calabria
22.52201146	Turk_Cypriot
22.86207340	Greek_Dodecanese
23.07222139	Ashkenazi
23.09889391	Moldova_Jewish
23.20857385	Greek_North_Aegean
23.23690599	Malta
23.85880760	Greek_Chios
24.09940456	Greek_Crete
24.38222098	Sicily
24.40497900	IT_Campania
24.97725766	Samaritan
25.07265842	IT_Apulia
25.52829802	IT_Molise
26.16213676	IT_Abruzzo
26.19731093	Greek_Ionia
26.47167354	Lebanese_Christian
26.62341263	Greek_Cyclades
26.71663152	IT_Basilicata
27.11146805	Tunisian
27.76614485	Algerian
27.88783785	Greek_Athens
28.14083687	Greek_Cappadocian
28.29519040	Lebanese_Muslim
28.54428489	Nusayri
28.81220575	Greek_Central
28.84652145	Greek_Andros_Island
29.05404103	Lebanese_Druze
29.51372562	France_Corsica
29.55576424	IT_Lazio
29.56914946	Palestinian
29.60335116	Greek_Western-Thrace
29.63970142	Syrian
29.81333259	IT_Marche
30.08778324	Mozabite_Berber
30.32839429	Greek_Peloponnese
30.45786105	Jordanian
30.49133156	Greek_Eastern-Thrace
30.62695382	Moroccan
30.69436919	Greek_West
30.72349589	IT_Umbria
31.25585545	Turk_Crete
31.38207291	Albanian_Tosk
31.47223538	IT_Romagna
31.58494420	Greek
31.60622407	Sardinia
31.61913661	Egyptian

Distance to:	EBA:Greece_EBA_Kou03
10.46443501	Greek_Symi_Island
11.04838450	Algerian_Jewish
12.02086103	Italian_Jewish
12.83948208	IT_Calabria
12.99317513	Sephardic_Jewish
13.23161744	Greek_Dodecanese
13.74862175	Greek_Chios
14.04495639	Greek_North_Aegean
14.30644260	Moroccan_Jew
14.37239020	Greek_Cypriot
14.59525265	Tunisian_Jewish
14.91607522	Malta
15.06685435	Turk_Cypriot
15.21940866	Libyan_Jewish
15.22616170	Greek_Crete
15.50515076	IT_Campania
15.92317179	Sicily
16.45927398	IT_Apulia
17.25743028	IT_Molise
17.30736837	Moldova_Jewish
17.55569708	Ashkenazi
17.75183371	Greek_Ionia
17.98608351	Greek_Cyclades
18.03984202	IT_Abruzzo
18.16601497	IT_Basilicata
18.36695947	Greek_Cappadocian
20.03895706	Greek_Athens
20.25081480	Greek_Andros_Island
20.66184648	Nusayri
20.85784505	Greek_Central
21.06931655	Lebanese_Muslim
21.61782366	Samaritan
22.25397717	Greek_Western-Thrace
22.35380281	IT_Lazio
22.56213421	IT_Marche
22.77767767	Lebanese_Christian
22.87203970	Syrian
23.06649952	Greek_Peloponnese
23.21706700	Turk_Crete
23.55934846	IT_Umbria
23.72957648	Greek_West
23.74524163	Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
23.82069269	Greek_Eastern-Thrace
24.27133494	France_Corsica
24.27986409	Greek
24.74293232	Greek_West_Macedonia
24.75341391	IT_Romagna
24.76770074	Lebanese_Druze
24.90026907	Albanian_Tosk
25.14791443	Italian
25.23202529	Greek_Istanbul
25.34368560	Greek_Northeast
25.35142994	Greek_Central_Macedonia
25.58807926	Jordanian
25.73555323	Palestinian

**Palermo Trapani** · 17-01-21, 19:09

Eurogenes K13 Ancient Distances including new samples.

Distance to:	PalermoTrapani
10.35133325	I9041_Greece_Mycenaean_3250_ybp
10.48649608	I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_
11.48583911	Greece_MBA_Log02
14.73128643	EBA:Greece_EBA_Kou03
14.96395001	I9010_Mycenaean_1351_bc_
15.57234086	I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp
16.94984071	I9005_Greece_Minoan_Lassithi_4000_ybp
19.50930291	Greece_MBA_Log04
21.13371004	I0071_Greece_Minoan_Lassithi_4000_ybp
21.45854375	I0070_Greece_Minoan_Lassithi_4000_ybp
22.06773890	Greece_MBA_Mik15
22.15810687	EBA:Greece_EBA_Kou01
22.18858265	Greece_EBA_Pta08
24.17464374	I0074_Greece_Minoan_Lassithi_4000_ybp
25.24808706	I0073_Greece_Minoan_Lassithi_4000_ybp

**torzio** · 17-01-21, 19:17

Distance to:	TorzioK13
8.23627950	Greece_MBA:Greece_MBA_Log04
9.48179835	Greece_MBA:Greece_MBA_Log02
15.38939895	Bulgaria_EBA:I2520_Bulgaria_EBA_5132_ybp
19.74614140	Bulgaria_Thracian:I5769_Bulgaria_IA_2600_ybp
24.15514852	Greece_Mycenaean:I9033_Mycenaean_1352_bc_M_
26.44129914	Early_Slav:I4137_Czech_Early_Slav_dup.I4137.SG_123 5_ybp
27.56939426	Greece_Mycenaean:I9041_Greece_Mycenaean_3250_ybp
27.80769857	Early_Slav:AV1_Hungary_Avar_1361_ybp
28.76452503	Bulgaria_Calcolithic:I2430_Bulgaria_Late_C_6448_yb p
29.51368157	Bulgaria_Calcolithic:I2431_Bulgaria_Middle_C_6615_ ybp
30.38001152	Bulgaria_Calcolithic:I2425_Bulgaria_Late_C_6515_yb p
32.62742865	Bulgaria_Calcolithic:I2424_Bulgaria_Late_C_6304_yb p
32.80998019	Greece_Mycenaean:I9010_Mycenaean_1351_bc_
33.80039645	Greece_Mycenaean:I9006_Greece_Mycenaean_3287_ybp
33.95007364	Bulgaria_Calcolithic:I2519_Bulgaria_C_6242_ybp
34.30244743	Greece_Minoan:I9005_Greece_Minoan_Lassithi_4000_yb p
35.81743011	Bulgaria_Calcolithic:I2509_Bulgaria_C_6353_ybp
36.13575238	Bulgaria_EBA:I2510_Bulgaria_EBA_4758_ybp
36.16931434	Bulgaria_Calcolithic:I2423_Bulgaria_Late_C_6388_yb p
36.61578212	Bulgaria_Calcolithic:I2427_Bulgaria_Late_C_6340_yb p
37.47596163	Greece_MBA:Greece_MBA_Mik15
38.65021475	Greece_Minoan:I0071_Greece_Minoan_Lassithi_4000_yb p
39.25780050	Greece_Minoan:I0070_Greece_Minoan_Lassithi_4000_yb p
39.86464850	Greece_EBA:Greece_EBA_Pta08
39.94054206	Anatolia_EBA:MA2213_Anatolia_EBA.SG_4700_ybp

Log04 and Log02 have a little bit of baltic in them , others do not

**torzio** · 17-01-21, 19:21

Target: Helladic_MBA:Log04
Distance: 2.4194% / 0.02419401
52.2 UKR_N_o
45.8 Yamnaya_UKR
1.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 GEO_CHG
0.0 Baltic_LVA_HG
0.0 IberomaurusianMAR_Taforalt
0.0 Indian
0.0 Levant_Natufian
0.0 Nganassan
0.0 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.0 West_African
0.0 WHG

**torzio** · 17-01-21, 19:24

Target: Helladic_MBA:Log02
Distance: 1.6277% / 0.01627748 | R3P
48.0 HUN_Starcevo_N
34.6 RUS_Afanasievo
17.4 BGR_Middle_C

Target: Helladic_MBA:Log04
Distance: 1.9000% / 0.01899977 | R3P
41.4 BGR_Middle_C
38.4 RUS_Catacomb
20.2 TUR_Kumtepe_N

**Angela** · 17-01-21, 19:28

Originally Posted by torzio

Target: Helladic_MBA:Log04
Distance: 2.4194% / 0.02419401
52.2 UKR_N_o
45.8 Yamnaya_UKR
1.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 GEO_CHG
0.0 Baltic_LVA_HG
0.0 IberomaurusianMAR_Taforalt
0.0 Indian
0.0 Levant_Natufian
0.0 Nganassan
0.0 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
0.0 West_African
0.0 WHG

Whoever did that it's absolute nonsense. The highest steppe in these samples is 46%. What kind of junk are people passing around?

**brick** · 17-01-21, 19:48

Code:

Eurogenes K15 Greece_MBA_Log02,15.11,18.45,7.99,3.31,20.66,10.7,19.07,2.98,0,0,0,0.67,1.03,0,0

Dodecad K12 Greece_MBA_Log02,2.53,0.15,1.68,0.18,32.54,23.27,0.11,0,8.18,0,29.93,1.43

Distance to:	Greece_MBA_Log02 (Eurogenes K15 Updated)
3.76558096	Italy_Tuscany
3.77898134	Tuscan
3.78802059	Italy_Emiliaromagna
4.89200368	Italy_Marche
5.33719964	Italy_Lazio
5.63260153	Italy_Liguria
6.26850062	Albanian-Kosovo
6.87065499	Albanian-North
7.36548709	Albanian-South
7.36694645	France_Corsica
7.57181249	Kosovo_Albanian
7.88827611	Albanian-Macedonia
8.87777562	Italy_Friuli
9.21531877	Italy_Lombardy
9.28511712	Italy_Veneto
9.46489303	Greek_Thessaly
10.48424055	Macedonian_2
10.58160196	Greek
10.64288201	GR_Peloponese
10.76678225	West_Sicilian
11.18683154	French_Provence
11.20422688	Sicily_Syracuse
11.53098001	Italy_Abruzzo
11.71002562	Sicily_Trapani
11.85638646	Italy_Trentino
12.02191748	Italy_Piedmont
12.05463811	Italy_Apulia
12.61307699	GR_Macedonia
12.61705592	Central_Greek
12.67064324	Sicily_Ragusa
12.81996880	East_Sicilian
13.42595620	Sicily_Caltanisetta
13.66946597	Romania_South
13.74886637	Macedonian
13.77379396	Gagauz
13.80185857	Sicily_Palermo
13.82074166	Bulgarian
14.21634271	Bulgarian_Thracian
14.24384779	Sicily_Enna
14.27539842	Italy_Campania
14.40676577	Italy_Central_Sicily
14.53421481	Romanian
14.74744309	Montenegrin
14.80781888	Italy_West_Sicily
14.81654818	Sicily_Agrigento
14.84630594	Ashkenazi
14.98650393	South_Serbian
15.08337164	Romania_Sw
15.16876396	Romania_Se
15.49020336	Sicily_Catania
16.24043411	Sicily_Messina
16.26365273	Portuguese
16.40358193	Spanish_Extremadura
16.48697365	Italy_East_Sicily
16.75862465	Greek_Crete

Distance to:	Greece_MBA_Log02 (Dodecad K12 Updated)
4.81965766	Albanian
5.71058666	Italian_Romagna
5.99226168	Albanian_Kosovo
6.11173461	Italian_Lazio
6.20779349	Greek_Thessaly
6.38098738	Greek_Thrace
6.47777307	Italian_Marche
6.97821610	Greek_Thessaloniki
7.55721510	Italian_Tuscany
8.04519111	Greek_Peloponnese
8.27799493	Greek_Athens
8.32700426	Greek_Central
8.62515507	Italian_Emilia
8.92029708	Bulgarian_Thrace
8.95997768	Italian_Liguria
10.06699558	Italian_Veneto
10.11353054	Turk_Makedonya
10.38715553	Italian_Abruzzo
10.47544825	France_Corsica
10.83237278	Italian_Lombardy
10.91127399	Greek_Macedonia
11.03433278	Italian_Friuli_VG
11.13983393	Italian_Piedmont
11.20190609	Italian_Apulia
11.33250193	Greek_Foca
11.41070988	Bulgarian_East
11.74533950	MD_Gagauz
12.66728858	Bulgarian_Central
12.82154047	Greek_Lemnos
12.82877235	Italian_Campania
13.14711755	Bulgarian_West
13.39951492	MD_South
13.45734744	Pomak_Bulgaria
13.46283078	Swiss_Italian
13.52902805	Italian_Sicily
13.58800574	Macedonian
13.79490848	Italian_Trentino
13.95522125	Romanian
14.21530161	Pomak_Greece
14.28422206	Turk_Trakya
14.59007539	Turk_Deliorman
14.94003347	Ashkenazi_Jews
15.22965200	MD_Jewish
15.34918565	Montenegrin
15.48070735	Greek_Izmir
16.06448256	Italian_Calabria
16.77191700	Greek_Fournoi
17.50190561	Italian_Aosta_Valley
17.95560358	Greek_Crete
18.98602381	Spanish_Canarias
19.11040816	Serb
19.27879405	Greek_Icaria
19.39444508	Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
19.49657406	Spanish_Baleares
19.70369762	Italian_Jews

**brick** · 17-01-21, 20:11

Eurogenes G25

Code:

 Scaled

Cycladic_EBA:Kou01,0.113823,0.176702,-0.018479,-0.088179,0.02462,-0.039602,-0.00094,-0.007154,0.011249,0.053942,0.008119,0.013788,-0.017542,0.012799,-0.026601,-0.016574,0.004955,0.004561,0.01169,-0.016133,-0.007736,-0.002968,0.000123,0.00723,-0.000479
Cycladic_EBA:Kou03,0.108132,0.159438,-0.02225,-0.07106,0.013233,-0.032351,-0.00517,-0.006231,0.000409,0.045377,0.005359,0.015586,-0.022299,-0.002477,-0.024565,0.003713,0.026468,0.00076,0.007416,-0.006878,-0.008859,-0.001484,0.002218,-0.001084,-0.006227
Helladic_MBA:Log02,0.117238,0.153345,0.01961,-0.019057,0.02739,-0.013945,-0.00235,-0.003461,0.003068,0.025878,-0.000162,0.005695,-0.015015,0.000275,-0.014251,-0.012596,-0.005476,0.00152,0.00264,-0.002126,-0.010357,0.000989,0.006286,-0.000602,-0.002754
Helladic_MBA:Log04,0.119514,0.141159,0.026776,-0.001292,0.01908,-0.001673,-0.00611,-0.002538,-0.007567,0.008018,0.003573,0.014687,-0.011744,0.001651,-0.003529,-0.011535,-0.004042,-0.002154,0.008799,-0.014632,-0.010606,0.004451,0.003451,0.005784,-0.005029
Helladic_EBA:Mik15,0.110408,0.176702,0.001131,-0.084949,0.030159,-0.031794,-0.002585,-0.004615,0.029042,0.065605,0.003085,0.009292,-0.019475,0.003716,-0.03013,-0.017502,0.008736,0.005194,0.009302,-0.017884,-0.009234,0.002349,-0.001849,0.006868,-0.004071
Minoan_EBA:Pta08,0.112685,0.168578,-0.018102,-0.089471,0.026774,-0.034861,0.00282,-0.003461,0.022702,0.057404,0.009256,0.008542,-0.018434,0.007569,-0.033251,-0.024529,0.000261,0.003421,0.009176,-0.009004,-0.008235,0.007543,-0.005053,-0.003253,0.002515

Distance to:	Helladic_MBA:Log02
0.02523331	Greek_Thessaly
0.02642431	Italian_Tuscany
0.02680568	Italian_Piedmont
0.02711457	Italian_Lombardy
0.02791138	Italian_Marche
0.02845305	Italian_Liguria
0.02943631	Albanian
0.03011735	French_Corsica
0.03103996	Italian_Umbria
0.03223088	Greek_Macedonia
0.03232640	Italian_Bergamo
0.03374879	Italian_Lazio
0.03421376	Greek_Peloponnese
0.03432588	Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03546127	Swiss_Italian
0.03594062	Italian_Veneto
0.03611853	Italian_Abruzzo
0.03699253	Italian_Molise
0.03787082	Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03938887	Italian_Apulia
0.03939264	Rumelia_East
0.03941018	Macedonian:Central
0.04241476	Greek_Izmir
0.04333878	Greek_Laconia
0.04359595	Italian_Northeast
0.04365836	Italian_Basilicata
0.04399883	Sicilian_West
0.04454211	Macedonian:Pelagonia1
0.04503405	Spanish_Menorca
0.04545647	Macedonian:Northwest
0.04546896	Sicilian_East
0.04573501	Macedonian:Southeast
0.04670852	Gagauz
0.04707098	Italian_Campania
0.04808248	Macedonian:East2
0.04822838	Spanish_Baleares
0.04848134	Spanish_Eivissa
0.04869347	Spanish_Mallorca
0.04899510	Bulgarian
0.05088327	French_Provence
0.05148620	Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.05202754	Spanish_Murcia
0.05215984	Maltese
0.05230830	Italian_Calabria
0.05242603	Spanish_Extremadura
0.05248531	Spanish_Andalucia
0.05299183	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.05301696	Macedonian:East1
0.05333724	Portuguese
0.05349866	Romanian
0.05357838	Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.05361639	Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.05416657	Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.05446682	Ashkenazi_Russia
0.05449029	Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona

Distance to:	Helladic_MBA:Log04
0.03337994	Macedonian:Pelagonia1
0.03473317	Greek_Thessaly
0.03494436	Macedonian:East2
0.03679269	Gagauz
0.03685512	Greek_Macedonia
0.03807272	Italian_Northeast
0.03838581	Italian_Piedmont
0.03843968	Albanian
0.03851571	Bulgarian
0.03906968	Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03926574	Macedonian:Central
0.04001684	Romanian
0.04047764	Italian_Veneto
0.04068234	Swiss_Italian
0.04084777	Rumelia_East
0.04159919	Italian_Liguria
0.04189718	Italian_Lombardy
0.04201872	Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04303498	Italian_Bergamo
0.04311134	Italian_Tuscany
0.04421022	Macedonian:Northwest
0.04428248	Macedonian:Southeast
0.04582923	French_Provence
0.04667105	Serbian
0.04674458	Italian_Marche
0.04677877	Montenegrin
0.04792880	Greek_Peloponnese
0.04882086	Macedonian:East1
0.04925889	Italian_Umbria
0.05015927	Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.05172263	Moldovan
0.05270845	Spanish_Mallorca
0.05281949	Swiss_French
0.05298287	Italian_Molise
0.05363029	Swiss_German
0.05375571	Spanish_Baleares
0.05423592	French_Corsica
0.05442753	Spanish_Eivissa
0.05488245	Turkish_Deliorman
0.05492221	Spanish_Menorca
0.05512859	Italian_Abruzzo
0.05517734	French_Alsace
0.05583527	French_Auvergne
0.05583557	Italian_Lazio
0.05596100	Greek_Izmir
0.05697630	Spanish_Penedes
0.05707534	Spanish_Girona
0.05788032	Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.05814320	Bosnian
0.05855480	Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.05867200	French_Nord
0.05915712	Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.05963272	Italian_Apulia
0.06001138	Spanish_Alacant
0.06004219	French_Occitanie

Distance to:	Cycladic_EBA:Kou01
0.07590415	Cypriot_B
0.07604349	Greek_Dodecanese
0.07669554	Italian_Jew
0.07745765	Romaniote_Jew
0.07783882	Italian_Calabria
0.07869598	Greek_Kos
0.07878945	Italian_Campania
0.07989198	Sephardic_Jew
0.07995099	Sicilian_East
0.08036046	Italian_Apulia
0.08055665	Cypriot
0.08178649	Italian_Basilicata
0.08308932	Greek_Crete
0.08384985	Ashkenazi_Germany
0.08536558	Maltese
0.08647964	Italian_Abruzzo
0.08746155	Tunisian_Jew
0.08760472	Italian_Molise
0.08791223	Italian_Lazio
0.08946731	Greek_Izmir
0.08951182	Greek_Laconia
0.08964250	Sicilian_West
0.09033844	Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.09156203	Ashkenazi_Poland
0.09175135	Moroccan_Jew
0.09186866	Libyan_Jew
0.09277910	Italian_Marche
0.09306349	Syrian_Jew
0.09313099	Greek_Cappadocia
0.09336534	Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
0.09350530	Italian_Umbria
0.09351215	Lebanese_Christian
0.09424352	Lebanese_Christian_Maronite
0.09450008	Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.09526028	Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.09547685	Greek_Peloponnese
0.09573638	Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.09625135	Sardinian
0.09641683	Ashkenazi_Russia
0.09743676	French_Corsica
0.09822865	Druze
0.09989781	Italian_Tuscany
0.09991362	Samaritan
0.10077235	Lebanese_Druze
0.10085671	Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.10103523	Karaite_Egypt
0.10183466	Greek_Thessaly
0.10509591	Albanian
0.10728483	Greek_Macedonia
0.10749670	Lebanese_Muslim
0.10794570	Italian_Piedmont
0.10909332	Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.10959279	Italian_Lombardy
0.11154791	Rumelia_East
0.11165440	Armenian_B

Distance to:	Cycladic_EBA:Kou03
0.05204134	Greek_Kos
0.05385652	Greek_Dodecanese
0.05480986	Cypriot_B
0.05680599	Italian_Calabria
0.05856668	Italian_Campania
0.05971432	Romaniote_Jew
0.06059452	Italian_Jew
0.06078801	Italian_Basilicata
0.06180311	Greek_Crete
0.06216075	Italian_Apulia
0.06230512	Cypriot
0.06317933	Ashkenazi_Germany
0.06476211	Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.06480381	Sephardic_Jew
0.06506609	Sicilian_East
0.06632712	Greek_Izmir
0.06704354	Maltese
0.06706089	Italian_Abruzzo
0.06824511	Italian_Molise
0.06931194	Greek_Laconia
0.07018232	Italian_Lazio
0.07288819	Italian_Umbria
0.07298538	Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.07331913	Greek_Cappadocia
0.07365125	Ashkenazi_Poland
0.07366501	Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.07405214	Sicilian_West
0.07512460	Syrian_Jew
0.07556403	Moroccan_Jew
0.07595047	Ashkenazi_Russia
0.07654973	Italian_Marche
0.07661637	Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.07669265	Greek_Peloponnese
0.07690939	Tunisian_Jew
0.07785186	Lebanese_Christian
0.07818188	Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
0.07843023	Libyan_Jew
0.07868837	Druze
0.07884641	Lebanese_Christian_Maronite
0.08174797	Lebanese_Druze
0.08202996	Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.08219148	Italian_Tuscany
0.08333150	French_Corsica
0.08456778	Greek_Thessaly
0.08722587	Karaite_Egypt
0.08742032	Albanian
0.08838596	Lebanese_Muslim
0.08881193	Armenian_B
0.08979301	Turkish_Trabzon
0.08989309	Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.09064673	Rumelia_East
0.09144232	Greek_Macedonia
0.09260476	Italian_Piedmont
0.09373045	Greek_Trabzon
0.09511237	Lebanese_Muslim_Shia

Distance to:	Helladic_EBA:Mik15
0.07397421	Sardinian
0.08414964	Italian_Calabria
0.08465636	Italian_Campania
0.08497520	Italian_Jew
0.08526022	Sicilian_East
0.08537033	Italian_Apulia
0.08669518	Italian_Basilicata
0.08765681	Italian_Lazio
0.08867735	Maltese
0.08882200	Romaniote_Jew
0.08947458	Sephardic_Jew
0.08948834	Greek_Dodecanese
0.08964486	Italian_Abruzzo
0.09044171	French_Corsica
0.09055579	Ashkenazi_Germany
0.09057000	Sicilian_West
0.09070700	Italian_Molise
0.09142735	Greek_Kos
0.09187913	Greek_Laconia
0.09247294	Cypriot_B
0.09293438	Italian_Umbria
0.09307799	Italian_Marche
0.09320012	Greek_Crete
0.09488329	Greek_Izmir
0.09614535	Tunisian_Jew
0.09696668	Cypriot
0.09702718	Moroccan_Jew
0.09716544	Ashkenazi_Poland
0.09758630	Italian_Tuscany
0.09794467	Greek_Peloponnese
0.09956599	Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.10035030	Libyan_Jew
0.10063262	Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.10146093	Ashkenazi_Russia
0.10161478	Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.10237677	Greek_Thessaly
0.10369462	Italian_Lombardy
0.10406674	Italian_Piedmont
0.10462846	Albanian
0.10603333	Italian_Bergamo
0.10814912	Syrian_Jew
0.10872759	Italian_Liguria
0.10878346	Greek_Macedonia
0.10913322	Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.10916323	Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.10961357	Swiss_Italian
0.11083834	Lebanese_Christian
0.11182549	Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
0.11260793	Greek_Cappadocia
0.11270585	Lebanese_Christian_Maronite
0.11304394	Rumelia_East
0.11393672	Italian_Veneto
0.11495301	Spanish_Menorca
0.11551928	Druze
0.11587821	Palestinian_Beit_Sahour

Distance to:	Minoan_EBA:Pta08
0.07794846	Italian_Jew
0.07888632	Romaniote_Jew
0.07966648	Greek_Dodecanese
0.08001202	Cypriot_B
0.08029646	Italian_Calabria
0.08085760	Sicilian_East
0.08124932	Italian_Campania
0.08180170	Sephardic_Jew
0.08291480	Italian_Apulia
0.08321596	Greek_Kos
0.08375053	Cypriot
0.08429738	Italian_Basilicata
0.08538057	Ashkenazi_Germany
0.08657638	Greek_Crete
0.08690987	Maltese
0.08819190	Tunisian_Jew
0.08870051	Italian_Abruzzo
0.08913941	Italian_Lazio
0.08930199	Sicilian_West
0.08979417	Italian_Molise
0.08995290	Sardinian
0.09259749	Greek_Izmir
0.09262980	Ashkenazi_Poland
0.09272088	Greek_Laconia
0.09292286	Libyan_Jew
0.09328395	Moroccan_Jew
0.09466288	Italian_Marche
0.09557428	Ashkenazi_Ukraine
0.09570491	Italian_Umbria
0.09610834	Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.09641777	Syrian_Jew
0.09658196	Lebanese_Christian
0.09668734	Ashkenazi_Belarussia
0.09685229	Lebanese_Christian_Greek_Orthodox
0.09729297	French_Corsica
0.09743143	Greek_Cappadocia
0.09753704	Ashkenazi_Lithuania
0.09762716	Greek_Peloponnese
0.09768439	Ashkenazi_Russia
0.09775410	Lebanese_Christian_Maronite
0.10103884	Samaritan
0.10129367	Druze
0.10154348	Italian_Tuscany
0.10283865	Karaite_Egypt
0.10395822	Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.10400532	Greek_Thessaly
0.10421546	Lebanese_Druze
0.10661488	Albanian
0.10867229	Greek_Macedonia
0.10892293	Italian_Piedmont
0.10960258	Lebanese_Muslim
0.10964491	Italian_Lombardy
0.11079269	Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.11351051	Italian_Bergamo
0.11352478	Italian_Liguria

**brick** · 17-01-21, 20:33

Target: Helladic_MBA:Log02 Distance: 2.8273% / 0.02827337 \| ADC: 0.25x RC

63.6	Anatolia_Barcin_N
34.8	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.6	WHG

Target: Helladic_MBA:Log04 Distance: 3.2335% / 0.03233510 \| ADC: 0.25x RC

54.2	Anatolia_Barcin_N
45.8	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Cycladic_EBA:Kou01 Distance: 3.2808% / 0.03280773 \| ADC: 0.25x RC

84.0	Anatolia_Barcin_N
8.2	GEO_CHG
7.8	IRN_Wezmeh_N

Target: Cycladic_EBA:Kou03 Distance: 1.6772% / 0.01677226 \| ADC: 0.25x RC

73.6	Anatolia_Barcin_N
12.2	IRN_Seh_Gabi_LN
9.2	GEO_CHG
5.0	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Helladic_EBA:Mik15 Distance: 2.7598% / 0.02759813 \| ADC: 0.25x RC

88.6	Anatolia_Barcin_N
6.8	Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.6	IRN_Wezmeh_N

Target: Minoan_EBA:Pta08 Distance: 3.0579% / 0.03057867 \| ADC: 0.25x RC

82.0	Anatolia_Barcin_N
8.8	GEO_CHG
5.2	IRN_Wezmeh_N
4.0	Levant_Natufian

**brick** · 17-01-21, 20:53

Originally Posted by Jovialis

Correction, Log02 does have some small connections to the Lazaridis et al. 2017 paper. She is the one that clusters with Tuscans. Though I would say, this sample also looks a lot more "Illyrian" to me. Once again, strong connections to Italy.

Log02 is from Kozani, Western Macedonia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozani_(regional_unit)

**torzio** · 17-01-21, 22:21

mine using G25 scaled

Distance to:
0.03616684	Helladic_MBA__Log04_scaled
0.03786616	Helladic_MBA__Log02_scaled
0.11499904	Cycladic_EBA__Kou03_scaled
0.11871845	Helladic_EBA__Mik15_scaled
0.12309355	Minoan_EBA__Pta08_scaled
0.12395859	Cycladic_EBA__Kou01_scaled

according to others Log02 is

Helladic_MBA__Log02 can be modeled as:
50.00 % HUN_Protoboleraz_LCA__I2791
+ 25.00 % TUR_Ikiztepe_LC__IKI009
+ 25.00 % Corded_Ware_Baltic_early__I4629 0.016017

**Angela** · 17-01-21, 22:21

It's very odd. I'm assuming that's based on coordinates from the paper. It would be helpful if someone would provide them because I can't find an archaeological site named Logkas anywhere in Macedonia.

The closest I come is Logas in northern Corfu where there is indeed a Middle Bronze Age site.

Maybe it's a very new site and so isn't yet on any list of archaeological sites in Macedonia. What I did find is the arrival of Mycenaean artifacts in the Late Bronze Age, perhaps indicating influence from the south.

https://archeorient.hypotheses.org/11282

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...:entry=kerkyra

**Progon** · 17-01-21, 22:52

This makes sense, Log02 and Log04 were probably Proto-Greek while those Cycladic were what Herodotus labelled the Pre-Greek people as Pelasgian.

**kingjohn** · 18-01-21, 00:38

Originally Posted by Progon

This makes sense, Log02 and Log04 were probably Proto-Greek while those Cycladic were what Herodotus labelled the Pre-Greek people as Pelasgian.

Where is e-v13 in the generall picture
( assuming the ancient sample number would have been larger than 11 it would be found)

Is it proto-greek or pelasgian in greece ?

P.s
Nice to see that pta08 in g25 davidski calculator
Still cluster with some western jewish groups
Italian jews, romaniots

**Pax Augusta** · 18-01-21, 01:18

Originally Posted by Angela

It's very odd. I'm assuming that's based on coordinates from the paper. It would be helpful if someone would provide them because I can't find an archaeological site named Logkas anywhere in Macedonia.

The closest I come is Logas in northern Corfu where there is indeed a Middle Bronze Age site.

Maybe it's a very new site and so isn't yet on any list of archaeological sites in Macedonia. What I did find is the arrival of Mycenaean artifacts in the Late Bronze Age, perhaps indicating influence from the south.

https://archeorient.hypotheses.org/11282

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...:entry=kerkyra

Maybe this, Loggas rather than Logkas

"An extensive Mycenaean cemetery with 31 undisturbed burials containing numerous items of jewellery and several different types of ceramic vases, including 12 ornate Mycenaean drinking cups or kylikes, has been unearthed by Greek archaeologists at the Loggas site near Elati in Kozani (Macedonia), a short distance from ancient Aiani."

https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogs...-in-large.html

**torzio** · 18-01-21, 03:29

mine via vahadour with these new samples just added

Distance to:	TorzioK13
4.01337763	R105_Lazio_Rome_Italy_Late_Antiquity
4.43023701	I7043_Hungary_BA_4000_ybp
5.30078296	R1_Abruzzo_Teramo_Late_Bronze_Age_Italy .................Liburnian
5.70971103	I5524_Germany_Bell_Beaker_4250_ybp
5.75789892	R33_Lazio_Rome_Early_Medieval_Italy
6.02713033	NW54_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1491_ybp
6.53943423	STR535_Germany_Early_Medieval.SG_1491_ybp
6.89267002	I3313_Croatia_Early_IA_2733_ybp ............................Dalmatian
6.93354166	I4332_Croatia_MBA_3516_ybp ...............................Dalmatian
7.14688044	R55_Lazio_Rome_Late_Medieval_Italy
7.21058250	I4331_Croatia_MBA_3526_ybp ..............................Dalmatian
7.21271793	CL36_longobard_north_italy
7.38786843	RISE483_Hungary_Vatya.SG_3700_ybp
7.53441438	SZ28_Hungary_Langobard_1442_ybp
7.58433913	R1221_Lazio_Rome_Renaissance_Italy
7.62021653	DA195_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2553_ybp
7.67914709	I5759_Switzerland_Bell_Beaker_4178_ybp
7.70903366	SZ36_Hungary_Langobard.SG_1442_ybp
7.71743481	CL49_longobard_north_italy
7.97612688	col001_col001_
8.04037934	E09538_Germany_Germany_Bell_Beaker_Augsburg_4288_y bp
8.11592262	R61_Lazio_Rome_Late_Medieval_Italy
8.23627950	Greece_MBA_Log04
8.23907155	I2165_Bulgaria_EBA_4908_ybp
8.27548790	I7040_Hungary_BA_4300_ybp

best for myself of these new is in red

Blue is BC times

**Angela** · 18-01-21, 16:08

Originally Posted by Pax Augusta

Maybe this, Loggas rather than Logkas

"An extensive Mycenaean cemetery with 31 undisturbed burials containing numerous items of jewellery and several different types of ceramic vases, including 12 ornate Mycenaean drinking cups or kylikes, has been unearthed by Greek archaeologists at the Loggas site near Elati in Kozani (Macedonia), a short distance from ancient Aiani."

https://archaeologynewsnetwork.blogs...-in-large.html

Well, the Mycenaean Era is usually dated starting from around 1600 BC. These are older by 200 years. Maybe they found older burials? But if that's the case why on earth didn't they compare the older burials to those firmly in the Mycenaean period? Then we'd know if there were any changes as Mycenaean influences moved north, yes?

**Jovialis** · 18-01-21, 16:50

Stop the presses everyone, the academic authority of ifunny.co has determined that Proto-Greeks have been found by quasi-neo nazi meme fatwa...

In fact, it is one of the only search items which appear to say so.

https://ifunny.co/meme/the-genomic-h...-sra-jNctt8dI8

Seriously, though.

We need to see the paper, and know about the archeological context.

**Angela** · 18-01-21, 17:03

Why am I not surprised?

To the premise, I'd say maybe, and maybe we found Illyrian like people.

**bicicleur 2** · 18-01-21, 18:03

Originally Posted by Jovialis

Stop the presses everyone, the academic authority of ifunny.co has determined that Proto-Greeks have been found by quasi-neo nazi meme fatwa...

In fact, it is one of the only search items which appear to say so.

Seriously, though.

We need to see the paper, and know about the archeological context.

who/what is ifunny?

**Jovialis** · 18-01-21, 18:16

Originally Posted by bicicleur 2

who/what is ifunny?

Some kind of meme website, it seems.

**kingjohn** · 18-01-21, 18:23

Originally Posted by Jovialis

Stop the presses everyone, the academic authority of ifunny.co has determined that Proto-Greeks have been found by quasi-neo nazi meme fatwa...

In fact, it is one of the only search items which appear to say so.

https://ifunny.co/meme/the-genomic-h...-sra-jNctt8dI8

Seriously, though.

We need to see the paper, and know about the archeological context.

Bummer

So it was to good to be true.....

**Jovialis** · 18-01-21, 18:33

Originally Posted by Angela

Why am I not surprised?

To the premise, I'd say maybe, and maybe we found Illyrian like people.

This is what I think, given the closer connection to those types of samples. Rather than affinity to the Myceneans by Mycenae.

Thread: The genomic history of the Aegean palatial civilizations.

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