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Thread: Genetic Changes on the East European Plain from Stone Age to Bronze Age

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    Genetic Changes on the East European Plain from Stone Age to Bronze Age

    See:
    https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/4/eabd6535


    Steppe men took some mates from farmer cultures, predominantly Globular Amphora, even if their own women came along. They moved to the northeast forming Corded Ware. I think we sort of new, but more data is good.

    "Abstract

    The transition from Stone to Bronze Age in Central and Western Europe was a period of major population movements originating from the Ponto-Caspian Steppe. Here, we report new genome-wide sequence data from 30 individuals north of this area, from the understudied western part of present-day Russia, including 3 Stone Age hunter-gatherers (10,800 to 4250 cal BCE) and 26 Bronze Age farmers from the Corded Ware complex Fatyanovo Culture (2900 to 2050 cal BCE). We show that Eastern hunter-gatherer ancestry was present in northwestern Russia already from around 10,000 BCE. Furthermore, we see a change in ancestry with the arrival of farming—Fatyanovo Culture individuals were genetically similar to other Corded Ware cultures, carrying a mixture of Steppe and European early farmer ancestry. Thus, they likely originate from a fast migration toward the northeast from somewhere near modern-day Ukraine—the closest area where these ancestries coexisted from around 3000 BCE.


    Sounds like admixture around western Ukraine and then fast movement to northeastern Europe, to form Corded Ware farmers.


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    I'm not convinced by all their admixture analyses.




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    I haven't read this paper yet.
    But Sintashta carried 1/3 EEF admixture.
    Question is where they admixed with farmers.
    Some say upper Dnjepr area.
    I think more in the northwest and they migrated east after admix.
    Mittnik showed the earliest Baltic (Estonian?) Corded ware individual 5 ka had no EEF, only steppe.
    But after that EEF increased in Corded Ware.
    I'll read this paper when I have time. Seems interesting.

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    @iosif_lazaridis

    I still remember a Monday morning in 2014 when I first told another human being that Corded Ware was 70% Yamnaya. I still can't believe that result, computed with the crappy outgroup set available at the time has held up so remarkably well as Fig. 4 from the new paper shows















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    alot of r1a




    Individual Site Archaeological culture Date BP Date cal BC Y hg




    BER001 Berendeyevo Volosovo/Lyalovo 5487±40 4447–4259 Q1-L54

    PES001 Peschanitsa Veretye 10728±59 10785–10626 R1a5-
    YP1301
    (under YP1272)

    BOL001 Bolshnevo 3 Fatyanovo 4005±39 2829–2460 R1a-M417

    BOL003 Bolshnevo 3 Fatyanovo 3956±34 2571–2345 R1a2-Z93

    GOL001 Goluzinovo Fatyanovo 3968±32 2575–2349 R1a-M417

    HAL001 Khaldeevo Fatyanovo 4037±32 2832–2473 R1a2-Z93

    HAN002 Khanevo Fatyanovo 4083±33 2859–2495 R1a2-Z93

    HAN004 Khanevo Fatyanovo 4036±37 2835–2471 R1a2-Z93

    NAU001 Naumovskoye Fatyanovo 4047±35 2836–2573 R1a2-Z93

    NAU002 Naumovskoye Fatyanovo 4036±40 2836–2469 R1a2-Z93

    NIK002 Nikultsino Fatyanovo 4100±34 2865–2500 R1a-Z645

    NIK003 Nikultsino Fatyanovo 3972±54 2522–2298 R1a-M417

    NIK008A Nikultsino Fatyanovo 4039±33 2834–2472 R1a-Z645 (xZ283)

    NIK008B Nikultsino Fatyanovo 4039±34 2834–2472 R1a-Z645 (xZ283)

    TIM008 Timofeyevka Fatyanovo 4036±32 2832–2473 R1a-Z645

    VOR003 Voronkovo Fatyanovo 3987±29 2573–2466 R1a-Z645

    VOR005 Voronkovo Fatyanovo 4002±54 2840–2343 R1a-M417
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC7391/

    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/

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    The elephant in the room of this paper is the dramatic high level of WHG ancestry in the ukranian and westernmost russia populations. It seems PIE were overwhelmingly of WHG stock. Tough it would be important to understand what they mean by WHG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post

    BER001 Berendeyevo Volosovo/Lyalovo 5487±40 4447–4259
    Q1-L54
    The 12,600 year-old boy (Anzick-1) from Clovis culture in the USA also belongs to y haplogroup Q1a2a1 (L54).

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    I haven’t read the paper and the supplement yet but the blue seems to represent every HG except CHG: EHG, SHG, WHG and even the UHG in Anatolia Neolithic. Everyone was a HG before they began to farm so I don’t know how helpful that is in understanding the processes which went on in Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    I haven't read this paper yet.
    But Sintashta carried 1/3 EEF admixture.
    Question is where they admixed with farmers.
    Some say upper Dnjepr area.
    I think more in the northwest and they migrated east after admix.
    Mittnik showed the earliest Baltic (Estonian?) Corded ware individual 5 ka had no EEF, only steppe.
    But after that EEF increased in Corded Ware.
    I'll read this paper when I have time. Seems interesting.

    You have to look at Sintashta from another perspective, namely that of their cultural innovations, and I say the chances are low that some forest steppe, Northern Corded Ware groups developed that culture on their own, actually, I would even say forget about it. In my opinion they were running in circles and it will be proven that groups from the Carpathian sphere largely replaced local Corded Ware groups and influenced others. Like in other areas of Europe, the first wave Indoeuropeans were not necessarily the ones which stayed on top for too long in their respective region, but were replaced from the dynamic centres of the next developmental cycle. Sintashta came from a big, innovative group, which transformed most of Europe at that time, because the introduction of new metallurgial techniques, better horses and the chariot in particular, did change the West also and might have contributed to the downfall and collapse of the first states or proto-states in Northern Europe, that of Unetice.

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    "The analysis again shows that WeRuHG individuals are most similar to EHG, being made up of mostly the component maximized in WHG (blue) and considerable proportions of the components most frequent in modern Russian Far East and ancient Caucasus/Iran (orange and olive, respectively)"

    so looks like WSHG has steppe components also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    "The analysis again shows that WeRuHG individuals are most similar to EHG, being made up of mostly the component maximized in WHG (blue) and considerable proportions of the components most frequent in modern Russian Far East and ancient Caucasus/Iran (orange and olive, respectively)"

    so looks like WSHG has steppe components also.
    In eastern Europe we have two kinds of EHG. The ones that lived in the northern part were more ANE than WHG ( EHG is a mix between ANE and WHG). The ones that lived in the pontic steppe and in the westernmost part of southern Russia were more WHG shifted. The latter were the EHG that became the PIE.
    There is no "Unknown" HG in Anatolia. They were Villabruna like IMHO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etrusco View Post
    The elephant in the room of this paper is the dramatic high level of WHG ancestry in the ukranian and westernmost russia populations. It seems PIE were overwhelmingly of WHG stock. Tough it would be important to understand what they mean by WHG.
    Can you explain that ? What do you mean by Ukrainian and westernmost Russia ?

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    At the autosomal level[1], in the Principal component analysis (PCA) the analyzed AHG individual turns out to be close to two later Anatolian populations, the Anatolian Aceramic Farmers (AAF) dating from 8300-7800 BCE, and the Anatolian Ceramic Farmers (ACF) dating from 7000-6000 BCE. These early Anatolian farmers later replaced the European hunter-gatherers populations in Europe to a large extent, ultimately becoming the main genetic contribution to current European populations, especially those of the Mediterranean. In addition, their position in this analysis is intermediate between Natufian farmers and Western hunter-gatherers (WHG). This last point is confirmed by the ADMIXTURE and qp-Adm analysis and confirms the presence of hunter-gatherers of both European and Near-Eastern origins in Central Anatolia in the late Pleistocene. Regarding their genetic proximity to the WHG, it has been proven that this proximity is greater with the so-called Villabruna cluster, which lived in Europe 14,000 years ago, and in particular with the individual known as Iron Gates HG, from the Balkans . The detailed study of these results suggests that this affinity is not due to a genetic flow from the AHG to the ancestors of the Villabruna cluster, but on the contrary: there was a genetic flow from the ancestors of the Villabruna cluster to the ancestors of the AHG.

    Natufian were something like 50% CWE. Anatolian Hunter were likely 75% CWE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etrusco View Post
    In eastern Europe we have two kinds of EHG. The ones that lived in the northern part were more ANE than WHG ( EHG is a mix between ANE and WHG). The ones that lived in the pontic steppe and in the westernmost part of southern Russia were more WHG shifted. The latter were the EHG that became the PIE.
    There is no "Unknown" HG in Anatolia. They were Villabruna like IMHO.
    in some survey, they are described as halfway between WHG and Natufians - and close to Dzudzuana's - so they have Bassal Eurasian which lacks (I think) in WHG, even late Villabruna. To say they are Villabruna-like seems a bit exagerated, even if old lnks existed.

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    Sorry, Etrusco, I did not read your last post when I wrote Hastily my answer!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
    Can you explain that ? What do you mean by Ukrainian and westernmost Russia ?
    I intend Ukrainian neolithic folks and russian hg that lived in the part of Russia that borders ukranian on the west Voronez/ Rostov oblast IIRC

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    The admixture for Western Russia HG are shown above in the graphic.

    Dzudzuana makes more and more sense to me as the base to be used in these things.

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    The most relevant aspect of this paper is that another subculture of the CWC is absolutely r1a like all the others in the different regions of Europe. The desperate attempt by the guardians of Kurganist orthodoxy to try to link R1b-L51 to the CWC is going to turn out to be another big failure. No wonder considering that many people only have steppe in their brains.

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    Un saludo Etrusco, I hope all goes well in Lombardy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etrusco View Post
    In eastern Europe we have two kinds of EHG. The ones that lived in the northern part were more ANE than WHG ( EHG is a mix between ANE and WHG). The ones that lived in the pontic steppe and in the westernmost part of southern Russia were more WHG shifted. The latter were the EHG that became the PIE.
    There is no "Unknown" HG in Anatolia. They were Villabruna like IMHO.
    Correct.

    EHG= WHG+ANE+LAKE BAIKAL (almost full of east asian)
    WSHG= EHG+ANE+EAST ASIAN = WHG +ANE+EAST ASIAN
    So the two are same people archaeologically and anthropologically.

    What I was trying to post is the fact that the WSHG has steppe component.
    I think this is a very important fact:
    When Damgaard paper about ancient lake baikal was published, people think that the lake baikal people were mongols. Because the paper said lake baikal people was replaced by east asian.
    The problem is anthro data: the lake baikal people has paleo skull like american indian, not mongoloids.

    I think the same thing happened in west siberia and central asia. CWC, sintashta and andronovo have similar gene admixtures enough to think of migration from west to east. However, their skull shape pattern is opposite. Moving to east, skull shape becomes close to broad-face paleo type.

    So I guess that steppe component reached west siberia/central asia before neolithic age. Actually Iran farmer has already anatolia gene around 7,000.bc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The admixture for Western Russia HG are shown above in the graphic.

    Dzudzuana makes more and more sense to me as the base to be used in these things.
    I don't get it. above in the graphic are the models for the genetic clusters connected with caucasian/ iranian population. Dzudzuana has nothing to do directly with WeRuHG. We still do not know exactly which is the precise component of the non EHG part of steppe ancestry. It is related with CHG but still it seems is not true CHG. Bottom line is that this CHG like ancestry is not responsible for PIE. Which expanded with EHG/WHG Y lines. Now that we know that the pontic steppe was inhabited by a mixed WHG/EHG population it looks like game over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etrusco View Post
    I don't get it. above in the graphic are the models for the genetic clusters connected with caucasian/ iranian population. Dzudzuana has nothing to do directly with WeRuHG. We still do not know exactly which is the precise component of the non EHG part of steppe ancestry. It is related with CHG but still it seems is not true CHG. Bottom line is that this CHG like ancestry is not responsible for PIE. Which expanded with EHG/WHG Y lines. Now that we know that the pontic steppe was inhabited by a mixed WHG/EHG population it looks like game over.
    25,000 year-old Sample from the Caucasus with Basal Eurasian Ancestry

    We used outgroup f3-statistics to quantify the amount of shared genetic drift between SAT29 and other ancient genomes (Patterson et al., 2012). SAT29 shares more drift with Villabruna (Italy, 12140±70 bp) (Fu et al., 2016) and Dzudzuana2 than with other ancient individuals (Figure S3A), including the post-LGM individuals from the Caucasus (Satsurblia and Kotias). Among present-day Eurasian populations, SAT29 shows higher genetic affinity to Northern and Western Europeans rather than Central and Southern Asians (Figure S3
    We estimate 1% Neanderthal ancestry in the SAT29 sample, although with large uncertainty due to the low amount of data (95% confidence intervals: 0-6.6%). This point estimate is similar to that of Dzuzuana2 and likely lower than that of Palaeolithic Europeans due to dilution from Basal Eurasian ancestry (Lazaridis et al., 2018)
    CHG- an ancient region connected genetically with Villabruna and area with wagons, wagon burials, wine, metallurgy, domesticated sheep, and horses.
    H. event.


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    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post
    Correct.

    EHG= WHG+ANE+LAKE BAIKAL (almost full of east asian)
    WSHG= EHG+ANE+EAST ASIAN = WHG +ANE+EAST ASIAN
    So the two are same people archaeologically and anthropologically.

    What I was trying to post is the fact that the WSHG has steppe component.
    I think this is a very important fact:
    When Damgaard paper about ancient lake baikal was published, people think that the lake baikal people were mongols. Because the paper said lake baikal people was replaced by east asian.
    The problem is anthro data: the lake baikal people has paleo skull like american indian, not mongoloids.

    I think the same thing happened in west siberia and central asia. CWC, sintashta and andronovo have similar gene admixtures enough to think of migration from west to east. However, their skull shape pattern is opposite. Moving to east, skull shape becomes close to broad-face paleo type.

    So I guess that steppe component reached west siberia/central asia before neolithic age. Actually Iran farmer has already anatolia gene around 7,000.bc.
    Johen, I fear you are making your own definition of what/who is EHG... the Baikal element was, I think, a slight part of EHG, not the core, by far.
    To me it seems typical CWC have different physical features than the most of Andronovo, even if they share a good chunk of same components at the basis. BTW, Andronovo, as a cultural concept, contains some variations in its population composition, according t places and crossings at the margins with WSHG.
    Concernng shapes, broad faces - at lest at the cheekbones level was a common thing among almost all European and Eurasian HG's. If something happened, it would be rather a narrowing of faces among CWC, perhaps an exaggerated effect of crossings with farmers elements (an hypothesis). What hapened is rather a narrowing on the westward way than a broadening on the eastward way...
    Just my opinion for what it is worth.

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    One more time we see the relativeness of admixtures estimates, according to studies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by etrusco View Post
    I don't get it. above in the graphic are the models for the genetic clusters connected with caucasian/ iranian population. Dzudzuana has nothing to do directly with WeRuHG. We still do not know exactly which is the precise component of the non EHG part of steppe ancestry. It is related with CHG but still it seems is not true CHG. Bottom line is that this CHG like ancestry is not responsible for PIE. Which expanded with EHG/WHG Y lines. Now that we know that the pontic steppe was inhabited by a mixed WHG/EHG population it looks like game over.
    Perhaps you should read the two Dzudzuana papers again. It's another way of modeling all of these samples.

    Everything is not about y lines. Their autosomal inheritance is also important. Or don't you see that "Brown" component in them. That's not WHG, although EHG had some of it.

    As to culture, the steppe culture was mostly picked up from the farmers around them to the west and from the Caucasus, as Silesian pointed out.

    Their contribution was the domestication of the horse and perhaps a more warlike culture. When climate change and the plague perhaps brought with initial contacts with steppe people, caused the destruction of "Old Europe", they were in the right place, with the right "economic" style. Surely this is now known by everyone.

    It's as simple as that; it's always as simple as that. When the civilized core disintegrates, the people on the periphery move in and have to catch up. It's the way of history. No point glorying in it or decrying it.

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