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Thread: Rare European haplogroup of remote Western African origin: L3f1b6

  1. #1
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    Rare European haplogroup of remote Western African origin: L3f1b6

    Hi,

    My mt haplogroup is L3f1b6 (my sample appears listed as such both at YFull and Ian Logan's website but I cannot post links for being a newbie here (despite being 50 years old).
    According to Wikipedia, this clade could have reached Iberia before the Sahara became a desert:
    There is at least one relatively deep non-M, non-N clade of L3 outside Africa, L3f1b6, which is found at a frequency of 1% in Asturias, Spain. It diverged from African L3 lineages at least 10,000 years ago.
    Regards
    Fernando

  2. #2
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    Some branches of mtdna L
    are not recent more like bronze age
    Or even before in iberia

    P.s
    Since you can't post the links i will post it
    For you

    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L3f1b6/

    http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_..._sequences.htm
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe
    phenotype
    :
    gracile- med

  3. #3
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Thank you, yes those are the links (I cannot quote your answer because it contains links and I am not allowed to publish links).
    It is important to remember that L3f1b is basically a Sub-Saharan clade, not North African. The TMRCA of 4700 years for the fully Iberian L3f1b6 seems to suggest that it had already reached Iberia in a remote time.

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    african during latin america and brazils colonial era that migrated to Portugal

  5. #5
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    L3f1b6 has not been found neither in Brazil nor in Africa, it is only an Iberian haplogroup which seems to have existed there for about 4,700 years.
    It seems it is carried by about 1% of the population of Asturias in NW Spain, I don't think 1% of the population of Asturias can descend from the same Brazlian woman.

  6. #6
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    Abstract

    Objectives

    There is an ongoing effort to characterize the genetic links between Africa and Europe, mostly using lineages and haplotypes that are specific to one continent but had an ancient origin in the other. Mitochondrial DNA has been proven to be a very useful tool for this purpose since a high number of putatively European‐specific variants of the African L* lineages have been defined over the years. Due to their geographic locations, Spain and Portugal seem to be ideal places for searching for these lineages.
    Methods

    Five members of a minor branch of haplogroup L3f were found in recent DNA samplings in the region of Asturias (Northern Spain), which is known for its historical isolation. The frequency of L3f in this population (≈1%) is unexpectedly high in comparison with other related lineages in Europe. Complete mitochondrial DNA sequencing of these L3f lineages, as well phylogenetic and phylogeographic comparative analyses have been performed.
    Results

    The L3f variant found in Asturias seems to constitute an Iberian‐specific haplogroup, distantly related to lineages in Northern Africa and with a deep ancestry in Western Africa. Coalescent algorithms estimate the minimum arrival time as 8,000 years ago, and a possible route through the Gibraltar Strait.
    Conclusions

    Results are concordant with a previously proposed Neolithic connection between Southern Europe and Western Africa, which might be key to the proper understanding of the ancient links between these two continents. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 26:777–783, 2014. © 2014 Wiley Periodicals, Inc.

    https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...002/ajhb.22601

    There is a continuous effort for characterizing the genetic links between Africa and Europe, mostly using lineages and haplotypes th at are specific to one continent but had an ancient origin in the other. Mitochondrial DNA has been proven to be a very useful tool for this purpose since a high number of putatively European-specific variants of the African L* lineages have been defined over the years. Complete mitochondrial sequences reveal that as much as 65% of these can be the product of recent introgressions, while the remaining 35% hint to pre-Neolithic population movements over the Strait of Gibraltar. Due to their geographic position, Spain and Portugal seem to be ideal places for searching for these lineages. However, micro-differentiation patterns across the Iberian Peninsula make their frequency geographically uneven. Five members of a minor branch of haplogroup L3f have been found in recent DNA samplings in the region of Asturias (Northern Spain), which is noteworthy for its historical isolation. Its frequency in the population (≈1%) is unexpectedly high in comparison with other related lineages in Europe. Complete mitochondrial DNA sequencing, phylogenetic and phylogeographic analyses, yield results concordant with a previously proposed Neolithic connection between Southern Europe and Western Africa, which might be key to the proper understanding of the ancient links between these two continents.


    https://digibuo.uniovi.es/dspace/handle/10651/28277

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    Thanks durate
    Even among slavs there is
    A specific european mtdna L type
    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L2a1k/

    P.s
    Most of the samples from academic papers

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Thanks durate
    Even among slavs there is
    A specific european mtdna L type
    https://www.yfull.com/mtree/L2a1k/
    P.s
    Most of the samples from academic papers
    Thanks KingJohn.

    The original research paper - “Over the Sands and Far Away: Interpreting an Iberian Mitochondrial Lineage with Ancient Western African Origins” - can be seen in the internet link below:

    https://vdocuments.site//over-the-sa...ndrial-lineage

  9. #9
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    I think that this paper can be interesting too:

    Reconstructing ancient mitochondrial DNA links between Africa and Europe


    Abstract


    Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) lineages of macro-haplogroup L (excluding the derived L3 branches M and N) represent the majority of the typical sub-Saharan mtDNA variability. In Europe, these mtDNAs account for <1% of the total but, when analyzed at the level of control region, they show no signals of having evolved within the European continent, an observation that is compatible with a recent arrival from the African continent. To further evaluate this issue, we analyzed 69 mitochondrial genomes belonging to various L sublineages from a wide range of European populations. Phylogeographic analyses showed that ∼65% of the European L lineages most likely arrived in rather recent historical times, including the Romanization period, the Arab conquest of the Iberian Peninsula and Sicily, and during the period of the Atlantic slave trade. However, the remaining 35% of L mtDNAs form European-specific subclades, revealing that there was gene flow from sub-Saharan Africa toward Europe as early as 11,000 yr ago.


    http://m.genome.cshlp.org/content/22...&pmid=22454235

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    Thank you Duarte for the link to the study.

    The extracts above mention five samples from Asturias (=Oviedo Province) but both at Yfull and at Ian Logan's website there are only four from Asturias (in the company of two else from the neighboring province of Leon, mine is one of those two).

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by adnsanchezherrero View Post
    Thank you Duarte for the link to the study.

    The extracts above mention five samples from Asturias (=Oviedo Province) but both at Yfull and at Ian Logan's website there are only four from Asturias (in the company of two else from the neighboring province of Leon, mine is one of those two).
    You’re welcome @adnsanchezherrero.

    Not all samples published in studies or included in the FTDNA database, for example, were uploaded to Yfull. Take the case of these Italians, for example:

    Paper:

    We found L3d1b1a exclusively in Italy (five subjects from Tuscany, Umbria, and Campania) (Supplemental Table S1), thus most likely it evolved in situ. All individuals carried different haplotypes suggesting local divergence dating back to 3.6 kya (95% C.I.: 2.2–5.1) (Supplemental Table S2).”

    Yfull:

    Those “five” below are the Italians referenced in the paper. Where is the flag. I am not sure.



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    Thank you again Duarte.
    Regarding the flags and the provinces they are not nornally added at YFull when a sample from a study is loaded. That happened also with all the L3f1b6 samples until I emailed YFull telling them the countries and provinces (showing them the sources, of course) of all of them.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duarte View Post
    You’re welcome @adnsanchezherrero.

    Not all samples published in studies or included in the FTDNA database, for example, were uploaded to Yfull. Take the case of these Italians, for example:

    Paper:

    We found L3d1b1a exclusively in Italy (five subjects from Tuscany, Umbria, and Campania) (Supplemental Table S1), thus most likely it evolved in situ. All individuals carried different haplotypes suggesting local divergence dating back to 3.6 kya (95% C.I.: 2.2–5.1) (Supplemental Table S2).”

    Yfull:

    Those “five” below are the Italians referenced in the paper. Where is the flag. I am not sure.


    No doubt that the source of these samples is the paper “Reconstructing ancient mitochondrial DNA links between Africa and Europe”


    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/JN214450.1

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/JN214459.1

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/JN214478

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/JN225467.1

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/JN225468.1



  14. #14
    Regular Member Wanderer's Avatar
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    Tmrca is 2700bc. So its more than likely not in europe prior to that. And more likely migrated to europe after 2700bc for l3f1b6

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    A 2019 paper entitled A western route of prehistoric human migration from Africa into the Iberian Peninsula (I cannot add links) stated that there exists evidence of a Sub-Saharan migration into Iberia in a prehistoric period:
    Whatever the date of gene flow from Africa might be, the presence of African affinities in several individuals, including a clearly African mitogenome, shows that one or more contacts occurred between prehistoric Iberian populations and a population whose features we can describe as sub-Saharan. Whether that happened in a single episode, or two (accounting for the African affinities in, respectively, Spanish MN/ChL samples, and COV20126), we cannot tell at present. In both cases, the episode(s) we detected left a small, but not negligible, mark at the population level, contributing to a fraction, if minor, of the Iberian gene pool.
    As for the timing of that contact it pruposes that the most probable moment for that migration might have been before 3600 years ago:
    The exact date of this episode is difficult to define with confidence. In principle, if it happened in Middle Neolithic times (i.e. a little more than 3600 years ago, which is COV20126 age), its consequences should be evident in the clustering analysis of samples from that period and geographical area, which was not the case.
    However it also purpososes a much earlier moment for that migration:
    An alternative possibility is that gene flow may have occurred even earlier in Southern Iberia from a population with Sub-Saharan African features, which left some genetic contribution in the genomes of the people, the local hunter–gatherers, they admixed with. Because hunter–gatherer genomes from Southern Spain are not available yet, the consequences of such gene flow become apparent to us only in samples from Middle Neolithic times, in parallel with the reemergence of the local hunter–gatherer component of ancient European genomes. This hypothesis implies the existence of some north–south genetic structure in pre-Neolithic Iberia, with hunter–gatherers from the south showing a stronger resemblance with sub-Saharan Africans, and it would account for all findings of the present study, as well as for those of previous studies of modern DNA.
    Finally it claims that there would be needed Mesolithic Southern Iberian samples in order to decide which one of the two options is better:
    However, to safely discriminate between the two hypotheses, we would need Mesolithic samples from southern Spain, which are at present unavailable.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by adnsanchezherrero View Post
    A 2019 paper entitled A western route of prehistoric human migration from Africa into the Iberian Peninsula (I cannot add links) stated that there exists evidence of a Sub-Saharan migration into Iberia in a prehistoric period:


    As for the timing of that contact it pruposes that the most probable moment for that migration might have been before 3600 years ago:


    However it also purpososes a much earlier moment for that migration:


    Finally it claims that there would be needed Mesolithic Southern Iberian samples in order to decide which one of the two options is better:
    Tmrca is 2700 BC on yfull.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
    Tmrca is 2700 BC on yfull.
    Yes, I know. What does that imply?

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