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Thread: Genetic history of Calabrian Greeks reveals ancient events and long term isolation in

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    Genetic history of Calabrian Greeks reveals ancient events and long term isolation in

    Genetic history of Calabrian Greeks reveals ancient events and long term isolation in the Aspromonte area of Southern Italy
    Stefania Sarno, Rosalba Petrilli, […]Donata Luiselli
    Scientific Reports volume 11, Article number: 3045 (2021) Cite this article
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    Abstract
    Calabrian Greeks are an enigmatic population that have preserved and evolved a unique variety of language, Greco, survived in the isolated Aspromonte mountain area of Southern Italy. To understand their genetic ancestry and explore possible effects of geographic and cultural isolation, we genome-wide genotyped a large set of South Italian samples including both communities that still speak Greco nowadays and those that lost the use of this language earlier in time. Comparisons with modern and ancient populations highlighted ancient, long-lasting genetic links with Eastern Mediterranean and Caucasian/Near-Eastern groups as ancestral sources of Southern Italians. Our results suggest that the Aspromonte communities might be interpreted as genetically drifted remnants that departed from such ancient genetic background as a consequence of long-term isolation. Specific patterns of population structuring and higher levels of genetic drift were indeed observed in these populations, reflecting geographic isolation amplified by cultural differences in the groups that still conserve the Greco language. Isolation and drift also affected the current genetic differentiation at specific gene pathways, prompting for future genome-wide association studies aimed at exploring trait-related loci that have drifted up in frequency in these isolated groups.
    Source:
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-82591-9




    a) Sampling map showing the approximate geographic location of analyzed populations. Sampling points are color-coded according to the province of origin: Benevento (blue); Castrovillari (purple); Catanzaro (magenta); previously collected samples from Reggio Calabria (orange); newly collected samples from Reggio Calabria (gold). The two enlarged boxes detail the sampling locations of villages in the province of Reggio Calabria (left) and in the province of Catanzaro (right), respectively. (b) Historical map showing the approximate extension of the National Park of the Aspromonte mountain area (in pink) as well as the range of the Greek-speaking area at different time periods as reported in the legend at the top-left. Geographical map has been generated with the package




    and most important


    https://i.imgur.com/sK0RwhS.png
    Sefhardi, aschenazi, bulgarian
    die Überlebenden
    https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y62418/
    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/
    k12b ancient
    Closest:
    3.30708331
    R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietrophenotype: east med with pontic vibe

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    Indeed, most important.:)

    Another good Sarno and Boattini paper. Fascinating tree.

    So, Southern Italians can be modelled as a simple two way combination of Anatolian farmer and Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer.

    Just wish I could post the tree.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Another interesting bit from the Supplement:
    Supplementary Table S8. Results of four-population scenarios modelled with qpAdmix for the Italian populations using ancient putative sources.
    Population Ancestral Components Standard Errors P-value
    Iran_N WHG Steppe_EMBA Anatolia_N Iran_N WHG Steppe_EMBA Anatolia_N
    Sardinian 0.145 0.122 0.075 0.658 0.018 0.007 0.016 0.013 0.4857
    North_Italy 0.157 0.079 0.272 0.492 0.016 0.007 0.015 0.013 0.5794
    Benevento 0.240 0.039 0.168 0.553 0.019 0.007 0.016 0.014 0.0854
    Castrovillari 0.251 0.037 0.161 0.551 0.018 0.007 0.015 0.014 0.2623
    Catanzaro 0.278 0.025 0.131 0.566 0.018 0.007 0.015 0.014 0.0262
    Aspromonte 0.292 0.024 0.113 0.571 0.022 0.009 0.019 0.017 0.0449





    So annoying when the ads cover the content:

    Supplementary Table S8. Results of four-population scenarios modelled with qpAdmix for the Italian populations using ancient putative sources.
    Population Ancestral Components Standard Errors P-value
    Iran_N WHG Steppe_EMBA Anatolia_N Iran_N WHG Steppe_EMBA Anatolia_N
    Sardinian 0.145 0.122 0.075 0.658 0.018 0.007 0.016 0.013 0.4857
    North_Italy 0.157 0.079 0.272 0.492 0.016 0.007 0.015 0.013 0.5794
    Benevento 0.240 0.039 0.168 0.553 0.019 0.007 0.016 0.014 0.0854
    Castrovillari 0.251 0.037 0.161 0.551 0.018 0.007 0.015 0.014 0.2623
    Catanzaro 0.278 0.025 0.131 0.566 0.018 0.007 0.015 0.014 0.0262
    Aspromonte 0.292 0.024 0.113 0.571 0.022 0.009 0.019 0.017 0.0449

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    huzzah!


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    Finally my husband may be interested in something from my hobby. He, like Raoul Bova, has some ancestry from that Greek speaking region in Reggio Calabria, and the rest of his ancestry comes from the area directly east of it still in Reggio Calabria, where they were speaking Greek until way past the Middle Ages. The ancestral villages of two out of his four grandparents come from an area where people fled the coast during Moorish raids to build new villages in the mountains. That coastal town was renowned during Magna Graecia. One other grandparent came from that more isolated region.

    The most interesting thing for me will be finding out how long they've been isolated in the Aspromonte Mountains. To when does their original admixture date? Could it possibly be late Bronze Age, or maybe early Iron Age after Greek migration started? When?

    They've certainly drifted a lot in the inner mountains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Indeed, most important.:)
    Another good Sarno and Boattini paper. Fascinating tree.
    So, Southern Italians can be modelled as a simple two way combination of Anatolian farmer and Caucasus Hunter-Gatherer.
    Just wish I could post the tree.
    Yes
    Cool research
    You can show it to you calabrian husband

    P.s
    I know it is autosomal research but i wish
    There they anlaysed the samples for y snp markers
    Isolated communities are fascinating
    And because of drift can show surprising results

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Yes
    Cool research
    You can show it to you calabrian husband
    P.s
    I know it is autosomal research but i wish
    There they anlaysed the samples for y snp markers
    Isolated communities are fascinating
    And because of drift can show surprising results
    Well, I can tell you that in my husband's paternal villages there's a lot of G2a (his yDna) and the eastern R1a, plus a lot of J2a, so I would think Greece or Anatolia, unless the G2a is REALLY old.

    This is from a yDna project for Reggio Calabria. There's certainly E as well, a lot of it just labeled E-M35. How and when it arrived I have no idea, and a lot of these people didn't really get detailed testing done, as I'm sure I don't need to tell you, which makes it difficult to make educated guesses. There's quite a bit of R-M269 as well as some I. Of course, this isn't a random sample.

    There are three Panetta's, like our American politician, all forms of R.

    There's one Bova, who is E-M35. I'd guess E-V13, but who knows.

    A few family surnames have different yDna. It just goes to show you can't be sure just by surname.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Well, I can tell you that in my husband's paternal villages there's a lot of G2a (his yDna) and the eastern R1a, plus a lot of J2a, so I would think Greece or Anatolia, unless the G2a is REALLY old.
    This is from a yDna project for Reggio Calabria. There's certainly E as well, a lot of it just labeled E-M35. How and when it arrived I have no idea, and a lot of these people didn't really get detailed testing done, as I'm sure I don't need to tell you, which makes it difficult to make educated guesses. There's quite a bit of R-M269 as well as some I. Of course, this isn't a random sample.
    There are three Panetta's, like our American politician, all forms of R.
    There's one Bova, who is E-M35. I'd guess E-V13, but who knows.
    A few family surnames have different yDna. It just goes to show you can't be sure just by surname.
    This project ?
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...na/dna-results


    P.s
    About e1b1b people in this project
    People should upgrade to 67-111 markers or big-y
    To know there downstream clade better....
    Most e1b1b1 should be e-v13 but there some
    Other clades e-v22, e-v12, e-m34

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    Who brought Iran Neo in North Italy and Sardinia? Imperial Romans?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    Who brought Iran Neo in North Italy and Sardinia? Imperial Romans?

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    Iranian-like ancestry spread to Sardinia in the Bronze-age:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-020-1102-0

    I'd imagine much of it coming to the central Mediterranean region is from this time period.

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...-Mediterranean

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    In Sardinia it could also be Phoenician, so Iron Age... But in Northern Italy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    This project ?
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...na/dna-results
    P.s
    About e1b1b people in this project
    People should upgrade to 67-111 markers or big-y
    To know there downstream clade better....
    Most e1b1b1 should be e-v13 but there some
    Other clades e-v22, e-v12, e-m34
    Yes, I'm sorry, that's it. I did post the link. The site is bugging out on me lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post


    huzzah!
    It is strange
    That acording to this paper
    Sardinians have more whg component 12.2% than north italians 7.9%
    Is there explanation to it ?

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    I published a thread on a book called "Northern Italy in the Roman World". It can be found through the search engine. I think it's essential reading for anyone interested in this topic as it covers Northern Italy from the Bronze Age to the Gothic Wars.

    One of the points it makes is that starting very early Rome established colonies in Northern Italy. It was a part of Romanization. In my own area the colony was Luni. There were also the colonies along the Po and further north. There are many schematics which show where they were located. Indeed, there's an interactive site dedicated to the location of Roman colonies.

    There was also movement north from Southern Italy I believe as one of the Republican Era Roman samples shows a great deal of Greek/Aegean Sea ancestry.

    As for why Northern Italy has less WHG than Sardinia, it probably has a great deal to do with the fact that it was diluted by the steppe ancestry which started arriving with the Italics. Some of the Republican Era Roman samples have more WHG than modern North Italians.


    See:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ly+Roman+World

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    It looks like my assumptions going back to Raveane et al 2018 were correct:


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    Population Language Province Region N*
    Southern Italian analyzed populations
    Benevento Romance Benevento Campania 20
    Castrovillari Romance Cosenza Calabria 26
    Pentone Romance Catanzaro Calabria 7
    Tiriolo Romance Catanzaro Calabria 11
    Jacurso Romance Catanzaro Calabria 6
    Girifalco Romance Catanzaro Calabria 14
    San Luca Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 4
    Samo Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 2
    Cardeto Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 6
    San Lorenzo Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 8
    Amendolea Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 4
    Africo Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 5
    Bova Greco° Reggio Calabria Calabria 10
    Condofuri Greco° Reggio Calabria Calabria 4
    Roccaforte del Greco Greco° Reggio Calabria Calabria 6
    Gallicianò Greco° Reggio Calabria Calabria 3
    Roghudi Greco° Reggio Calabria Calabria 5
    Comparison populations
    Sardinia 28
    North Italy 13
    Tuscan 8
    French Basque 24
    French 28
    Orcadian 14
    Russia 25
    Adygei 17
    Druze 40
    Palestinians 41
    * Number of individuals successfully analyzed after genotyping and quality filtering check 379
    ° Greek-speaking communities of Southern Italy that still conserved a certain number of Greco speakers Total


    p.s
    someone posted it in anthrogenica
    just generally speaking to know how much samples they took from each region location

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    Wow, very interesting paper ! Thanks for posting kingjohn.

    I am very surprised, Northern Italy has more Iran Neo than Sardinia. I am not an expert on Italy but can someone explain the difference. I think for North Italy there is a little too much Iran Neo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
    Wow, very interesting paper ! Thanks for posting kingjohn.

    I am very surprised, Northern Italy has more Iran Neo than Sardinia. I am not an expert on Italy but can someone explain the difference. I think for North Italy there is a little too much Iran Neo.
    If North Italy is represented by Bergamo, I would expect to get, as (mostly) Northeastern Italian in ancestry, a bit more Iran Neo-like ancestry than that (as well as a bit more Steppe and a bit less WHG and ANF). If I'm not missing something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Population Language Province Region N*
    Southern Italian analyzed populations
    Benevento Romance Benevento Campania 20
    Castrovillari Romance Cosenza Calabria 26
    Pentone Romance Catanzaro Calabria 7
    Tiriolo Romance Catanzaro Calabria 11
    Jacurso Romance Catanzaro Calabria 6
    Girifalco Romance Catanzaro Calabria 14
    San Luca Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 4
    Samo Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 2
    Cardeto Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 6
    San Lorenzo Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 8
    Amendolea Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 4
    Africo Romance Reggio Calabria Calabria 5
    Bova Greco° Reggio Calabria Calabria 10
    Condofuri Greco° Reggio Calabria Calabria 4
    Roccaforte del Greco Greco° Reggio Calabria Calabria 6
    Gallicianò Greco° Reggio Calabria Calabria 3
    Roghudi Greco° Reggio Calabria Calabria 5
    Comparison populations
    Sardinia 28
    North Italy 13
    Tuscan 8
    French Basque 24
    French 28
    Orcadian 14
    Russia 25
    Adygei 17
    Druze 40
    Palestinians 41
    * Number of individuals successfully analyzed after genotyping and quality filtering check 379
    ° Greek-speaking communities of Southern Italy that still conserved a certain number of Greco speakers Total
    p.s
    someone posted it in anthrogenica
    just generally speaking to know how much samples they took from each region location
    I linked the tree and study in my signature, so it can be juxtaposed to their false claims in response to my posts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
    Wow, very interesting paper ! Thanks for posting kingjohn.

    I am very surprised, Northern Italy has more Iran Neo than Sardinia. I am not an expert on Italy but can someone explain the difference. I think for North Italy there is a little too much Iran Neo.
    It's not very much more. The big difference between them, which changes the percentages, is the amount of steppe in Northern Italy, which is even a bit higher in Northeastern Italy, as Regio pointed out. You can see it in the ydna in Sardinia. They do have R1b-U152 in Sardinia, but a lot of it is in the north where a good part of the area speaks a Corsican dialect, not the parts of the island where Sardinian is spoken.

    As I mentioned in another post, the Romans very quickly Romanized Northern Italy, and not just in draining swamps, building roads and settlements etc., or introducing Latin, or educating people, or adding new gods and imposing their political structure, but also genetically through veterans colonies. There was also the natural movement of people from Southern Italy.

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    @All
    How do you interpret those p-values? They say "we considered a P-value threshold of 0.01 to assess the significance of tested models". We should expect that the p-values were lower than 0.01, shouldn't we? Yet, they're all higher than 0.01. I'm certainly missing something. Anyway, most of them are lower than 0.05. (1)(2)
    North Italy and Sardinia get higher p-values; N. Italy's would be supposedly off(?): > 0.05. So I wonder if Tepecik-like ancestry was the one used instead of Barcin-like ancestry, given the focus on Calabria, which could perhaps explain the p-value obtained for N. Italy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It's not very much more. The big difference between them, which changes the percentages, is the amount of steppe in Northern Italy, which is even a bit higher in Northeastern Italy, as Regio pointed out. You can see it in the ydna in Sardinia. They do have R1b-U152 in Sardinia, but a lot of it is in the north where a good part of the area speaks a Corsican dialect, not the parts of the island where Sardinian is spoken.

    As I mentioned in another post, the Romans very quickly Romanized Northern Italy, and not just in draining swamps, building roads and settlements etc., or introducing Latin, or educating people, or adding new gods and imposing their political structure, but also genetically through veterans colonies. There was also the natural movement of people from Southern Italy.
    I don't want to give the wrong impression here. There was already Iran Neo in central Italy in the Neolithic according to Antonio et al, a little more in the Copper Age, and it was there in the Republican Era Roman samples, and not just in the one sample with high Aegean like ancestry. Jovialis pointed it out by using material from Antonio et al on this page of that dedicated thread, as he recently reminded me.

    See:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...hlight=Antonio

    The Empire would just have increased it.

    I think all the confusion arises from the fact that Antonio et al, and a lot of its readers did not take into consideration that some of the "Imperial" and "Post Imperial" samples could have been travelers, traders etc.

    To really approach understanding what went on we need North Italian, i.e. North of Rome samples from the Iron Age, and samples from Bronze Age to Iron Age samples from southern Italy. We also need Iron Age samples from, say, the Peloponnese and the Aegean islands.

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    In S7 of the Supplement, all of the Anatolia Neolithic farming samples are included so far as I can tell. I don't know if the following means they used them all.

    "To test temporal patterns of genetic relationships, we finally merged the “modern extended” dataset with genomic data for 1059 ancient samples (Suppl. Table S7) extracted from the literature62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72 and genotyped on the 1240 K panel (V37.2.1240K, https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/), finally obtaining a common “modern-plus-ancient” dataset of 326,832 SNPs. For the genotype-based analyses involving also ancient samples we applied a LD-pruning procedure by excluding one SNP for each pair of loci showing r2 values higher than 0.4 within a 200‐SNPs window, sliding 25 loci at the time (PLINK option --indep-pairwise 200 25 0.4), for a total of 286,656 SNPs left after pruning."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
    Wow, very interesting paper ! Thanks for posting kingjohn.

    I am very surprised, Northern Italy has more Iran Neo than Sardinia. I am not an expert on Italy but can someone explain the difference. I think for North Italy there is a little too much Iran Neo.
    The HGDP Sardinians are from the interior, maybe the ones from the coast are a bit more Iran Neo and Steppe and less WHG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    In S7 of the Supplement, all of the Anatolia Neolithic farming samples are included so far as I can tell. I don't know if the following means they used them all.

    "To test temporal patterns of genetic relationships, we finally merged the “modern extended” dataset with genomic data for 1059 ancient samples (Suppl. Table S7) extracted from the literature62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72 and genotyped on the 1240 K panel (V37.2.1240K, https://reich.hms.harvard.edu/), finally obtaining a common “modern-plus-ancient” dataset of 326,832 SNPs. For the genotype-based analyses involving also ancient samples we applied a LD-pruning procedure by excluding one SNP for each pair of loci showing r2 values higher than 0.4 within a 200‐SNPs window, sliding 25 loci at the time (PLINK option --indep-pairwise 200 25 0.4), for a total of 286,656 SNPs left after pruning."
    Thanks, Angela.

    It seems they didn't use them all for the 4-way mixtures. Notice that S7 includes all kinds of samples: Ust_Ishim, Kostenki, MA1, SHG, Unetice, Bell Beaker, Levant BA and on and on. Apparently they used them all for merging modern and ancient, i.e., for selecting the dataset of SNPs used in their work. And for PCA*. It doesn't mean that all those ancient samples were used in the model.

    The p-values for North Italy and Sardinia contrast with the Calabrian, and they seem to point to bad fits. Not sure, but one of the possible explanations is that they used the Anatolian source that makes more sense to Calabria (Tepecik?), and had to use them for North Italy and Sardinia as well, which resulted in those extremely high p-values.

    *ED: Based on the next post (thanks, Duarte).
    Last edited by Regio X; 06-02-21 at 02:06.

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