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Thread: New information about R1b-Y13200(new M73), and its subclades.

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    New information about R1b-Y13200(new M73), and its subclades.

    There were two ancient Y13200* samples found in Latvia, one is ZVEJ25(7689 ybp) the other is ZVEJ27(7027 ybp). Moreover one ancient sample was found in Norway which is VK531(4350 ybp), it belongs to y13202*.

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    Y13200 seperated around the Baltic Sea region circa 8400 ybp. One of its subclades BY15590 migrated westward, nowadays some Europeans belong to this subclade and its TMRCA is 4100 ybp. Another subclade went eastward which is M478(TMRCA 7300 ybp) then gave birth to L1432 and Y20750.

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    Currently, the Botai sample is down to L1432*. "Importantly of 17 Altaic Kumandin people tested 29.4 % were R-Y14051(subclade of L1432). The implication is self-explanatory this clade being found in Kumandins and Small Cumania. These are not so common in Europe, in Hungary elsewhere only present in one Bodrogköz sample. And some are found in Inner Mongolia, around the area where István Vásáry places the genesis of Cumans. Not found around the Balkans thus far.R-Y20750* is very common in Karachays/Malkars. This one wasn't found in Kumandins although a parallel clade R-Y20748 was found in one. Few R-Y14051 are found in few Russians, Ukrainians. Some Nogays. In an Ukrainian sample of 54 from Rașcov 2 were R-Y14051, also in Romanian Moldova."(copied from others).

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    Ancient sample R1b1a1a1>M478>Y20750 ~ 0–90 CE ~ Pavlodar, Kazakhstan Nomad_IA, it's called DA92.
    "R-Y20750 has an estimated TMRCA of 5,300 [95% CI 4,200 <-> 6,500] ybp. However, this clade owes its relatively ancient TMRCA estimate to an R-Y20750(xY20748) lineage represented by an individual from Kabardino-Balkaria in the North Caucasus. Many members of R-Y20750, including a Teleut from southern Siberia, a Bashkir, and a Tatar, belong to a subclade, R-Y20748, whose TMRCA is estimated to be only 1,750 [95% CI 1,150 <-> 2,400] ybp, comparable to the estimated TMRCA of R-L1432. The Bashkir and the Tatar share an even more recent common ancestor in R-Y22195 (TMRCA 800 [95% CI 425 <-> 1,450] ybp). Although this Bashkir individual belongs to the R-Y20750 clade, it should be noted that many of the R-M478 Bashkirs of Myres et al. (2011) have DYS390=19 and DYS389=14-16, and therefore probably belong to the R-L1432 clade instead. On the other hand, the modal R-M478 haplotype among the Balkars of Myres et al. (2011) has DYS390=22 and DYS389=14-19, a combination which is also found in a "kipshak, kumi noghay" individual in the R1b Basal Subclades Project at FTDNA. The HGDP Pakistani Hazara have their own peculiar cluster of R-M478 haplotypes (DYS390=23, DYS389=13-18 or 13-17, DYS385=13-16) that probably belongs to R-Y20750. 13.2% (5/38) of Shors, 11.4% (5/44) of Teleuts, and 3.1% (2/64) of Khakassians from the data set of Malyarchuk et al. (2011) probably belong to R-Y20750."(copied from others).

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    "About 15% of the Balkars belong to the haplogroup R1b, subclade Y20750 (mainly Chegem ethnic group of Balkars).

    These are such clans as the Aqbolat, Akkay, Bittir, Barasbiy, Gaza (Chegem), Janatay, Jañuraz, Janika, Jurtubay, Bittu, Malqaruq, Makka, Gelâstan, Tram, Tappashan, Etez, Makit, Mızı, Muraça, Sotta (Chegem) etc.

    The age of this branch (Y91288) is about 1450 years. Of the other peoples in this group are Karachays (Hubiy, Qağıy), Ossetian (Nigkoy), Georgian (Longurashvili), Astrakhan Nogay (Kasay), Kumyk Botaş from Botaş-Aul village. But for them all we can consume the Balkar origin, due to geographical proximity with the Balkars.

    Now, a distant relative has appeared outside the Caucasus - a German (Boschert). The Boschert Clan is from Westphalia. Between Boschert and the Balkars is about 1500-1700 years, which is pretty close in terms of DNA distance. For example, other people from Y20750 subclade (Tatars, Teleuts, etc.) stand from the Balkars at a distance of 5700 years.

    Today the German Boschert clan is the first close and only relative of the Balkar branch. With some caution, we can assume its Hun origin."( also copied from others).

  6. #6
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b-BY593
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b2a2

    Country: Canada-Ontario



    I don't know if this is much help. I find this branch very interesting since it is related to M269. The Botai culture might be connected with this line and perhaps also sample
    I0124 / M
    Find location: Lebyanzhinka, Sok River, Samara
    Country: Russia
    Associated label in publication: EHG
    Date: 5657-5541 calBCE (6680±30 BP, Beta-392490)
    MtDNA haplogroup (mother): U5a1d
    Y-DNA haplogroup (father): R1b1a1a (P297)
    Reference: MathiesonNature2015 (1240k of same

    I have noticed that the pottery around some of these regions is also the old style hunter gatherer, egg shape not flat bottom, like the ancient Altai pottery.
    H. event.


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    It surely is, since m269 and y13200 share a common ancestor which is p297.

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    "R1b-M73 dispersed both into the West and East, reaching Spain and China, respectively. It is found rarely in the Mediterranean but several survivors went through a rapid demographic expansion in the Early Middle Ages in Inner Asia and expanded later with Turkic speaker nomads (Turkmens, Uzbek, Uyghur, Tatars, Cumans.)"according to familytree DNA

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