Eupedia Forums
Site NavigationEupedia Top > Eupedia Forum & Japan Forum
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 174

Thread: "WOKE" America

  1. #26
    Elite member
    Join Date
    23-02-15
    Location
    Groningen
    Posts
    1,157

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1b/ E-V22

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Germanic
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    WOKE Ideology took over Scandinavia long ago and so completely that virtually no one there complains about it. You hear about it in the, broadly speaking, "Anglo-World" because there are still people in that world who resist it and speak out against it even though the response is often to try and destroy their careers, i.e. Jordon Peterson and on and on.
    North Europeans are too sober for woke
    Last edited by Northener; 24-03-21 at 11:40.

  2. #27
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,651


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    If I were to make an ethnic based analysis of the situation in Sweden I would instead propose that political correctness (or Wokeness, to use the new term) has so completely taken over countries like Sweden because of an, imo, unfortunate tendency toward over-conformism, as Swedes themselves seem to acknowledge.

    Question: Is Sweden the most politically correct country in Europe?

    Henrik Robeck



    , former Naval Officer at Royal Swedish Navy (1986-2001)


    "Yes, I would definitely say that is the case.Swedish people have always been a consensus striving nation, we don’t like different opinions and we like to argue and convince the other part of a discussion.
    Today there is almost no tolerance towards different opinions and people are, like most millennial's offended if someone disagrees.
    We have taken it to another level as people who are not considered being politically correct are actually in breach of something called “värdegrunden” (värde = values, grund =foundation) and that is by new policies a breach against the “common belief” that people can get fired from state employment, just as if you had committed a crime or other infractions of the law.


    There is a dental hygienist who reported that several of the so called “unaccompanied children” had fully developed wisdom teeth and therefore could not possibly be anything but adults, to the immigration office. While that was the instruction as only refugees and unaccompanied children has the right to free dental care, his employer fired him for breaking the “värdegrund” and won the case in court, thus the hygienist had to pay for the proceedings, in total the sum of £60,000.
    I fully believe the “political correctness” has gone the furthest as anyone not fully adhering to the correct views are considered a fascist, Internet troll or worse, even the press who should be the “third power” to keep a vigilant eye on the possible abuse from the state, is more conducting a witch hunt of people expression their opinion about the political policies and decisions that affects the Swedish citizens."


    That is why, as I said above, you don't hear complaints against "Wokeness" (or Political Correctness, to use the original term) from Scandinavia. There is no more dissent; it has been quashed. It's all very logical if you just look at the facts non-ideologically, and, if I might say so, without always approaching things from a "Nordic" is always better perspective.

    Instead of this kind of attempt to view the situation always in terms lauding one's own part of Europe, I would suggest picking up the books of Marx and reading them, and also a good history of the Soviet Union, especially in the 20s, 30s, and 40s. That would hopefully lead to more informed opinions on the matter. This is a problem which far supersedes petty European divisions. It affects all the world's democracies.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  3. #28
    Elite member
    Join Date
    23-02-15
    Location
    Groningen
    Posts
    1,157

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1b/ E-V22

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Germanic
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    If I were to make an ethnic based analysis of the situation in Sweden I would instead propose that political correctness (or Wokeness, to use the new term) has so completely taken over countries like Sweden because of an, imo, unfortunate tendency toward over-conformism, as Swedes themselves seem to acknowledge.

    Question: Is Sweden the most politically correct country in Europe?

    Henrik Robeck



    , former Naval Officer at Royal Swedish Navy (1986-2001)


    "Yes, I would definitely say that is the case.Swedish people have always been a consensus striving nation, we don’t like different opinions and we like to argue and convince the other part of a discussion.
    Today there is almost no tolerance towards different opinions and people are, like most millennial's offended if someone disagrees.
    We have taken it to another level as people who are not considered being politically correct are actually in breach of something called “värdegrunden” (värde = values, grund =foundation) and that is by new policies a breach against the “common belief” that people can get fired from state employment, just as if you had committed a crime or other infractions of the law.


    There is a dental hygienist who reported that several of the so called “unaccompanied children” had fully developed wisdom teeth and therefore could not possibly be anything but adults, to the immigration office. While that was the instruction as only refugees and unaccompanied children has the right to free dental care, his employer fired him for breaking the “värdegrund” and won the case in court, thus the hygienist had to pay for the proceedings, in total the sum of £60,000.
    I fully believe the “political correctness” has gone the furthest as anyone not fully adhering to the correct views are considered a fascist, Internet troll or worse, even the press who should be the “third power” to keep a vigilant eye on the possible abuse from the state, is more conducting a witch hunt of people expression their opinion about the political policies and decisions that affects the Swedish citizens."


    That is why, as I said above, you don't hear complaints against "Wokeness" (or Political Correctness, to use the original term) from Scandinavia. There is no more dissent; it has been quashed. It's all very logical if you just look at the facts non-ideologically, and, if I might say so, without always approaching things from a "Nordic" is always better perspective.

    Instead of this kind of attempt to view the situation always in terms lauding one's own part of Europe, I would suggest picking up the books of Marx and reading them, and also a good history of the Soviet Union, especially in the 20s, 30s, and 40s. That would hopefully lead to more informed opinions on the matter. This is a problem which far supersedes petty European divisions. It affects all the world's democracies.

    I don't know exactly the situation in Sweden, what I see in whole Northern Europe is a tendency to a sense of soberness, somewhat on distance, reserved, without much words.... I must say: wrong impression or not I like that spirit somewhat.....

    May be it's really a difference in Europe. My woman is half French and when she is talking with her father (mais non! attend attend! mais vraiment uuuuh) I always get the impression they get in some fight. And they always are surprised that when I state, 'hey are you in a fight or what', nooooo not at all.

    Nevertheless Northerners like me are sometimes vulcano's under icebergs.....hahahah

    Political correct is wrong when there is some "internal policy officer" that plays the role of 'censor'.

    But I truly I'm convinced that was in the nineties much much stronger than now. Because some are confusing being anti-PC with rude, 'I say everything what I want to say'. How hatred, stupid or impolite it is....I don't know if that is either a step forward in the civilization. Most of the time....not.
    Last edited by Northener; 24-03-21 at 18:28.

  4. #29
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    700


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    WOKE Ideology took over Scandinavia long ago and so completely that virtually no one there complains about it. You hear about it in the, broadly speaking, "Anglo-World" because there are still people in that world who resist it and speak out against it even though the response is often to try and destroy their careers, i.e. Jordon Peterson and on and on.
    well, i can't say a lot about scandinavia, since i do not know the general opinion of the people there. but what if there aren't that many complains because the problems really aren't that big? or the majoirity of people agrees with it? i also think the situations in denmark norway and sweden are all different anyways. in the interview you posted i can not see a lot of "wokeness" either.
    In the interview with those scandinavians,Peterson makes the claim that the more egalitarian a society is the more unequal are men and women. and that this is mostly because of biology. when the women talked it was mostly because of this claim. and i see no real denial of science here. Peterson imo failed to explain his point understandable.

    the causality is not clear between egalitarism and those differences. let's assume more egalitarian societies are more wealthy thus in theory people probably have more freedom of choice. but does this mean that the choices made are entirely or mostly biologically explainable? because egalitarian societies today might still have a different understanding of what women or men have to be despite giving them more freedom of choice. this would mean when Jordan says that by reducing cultural influence you increase biological influence it is not really this clear. it could also be, that by reducing influence of one cultural aspect you increase the influence of simply another cultural aspect.

    the study in Science which Peterson mentions several times for example did not make the claim that that the observed differences between men and women in egalitarian societies are mostly biological. in fact, if the study is indeed the one, then the authors even say that there must be a cultural factor, because of the observed variation within genders and that the observed differences are not that big.

    Peterson might have a point, but saying that there is no cultural problem at all is maybe not really good either. i know men who openly admitted, that when they get beaten in something, doesn't matter what, it hurts more for them if it was a women. this might also be biological who knows. in the past the opponent of a man was usually another man. maybe men are also programmed to work togehter or make deals more likely with other men because in the past this was maybe more beneficial.
    it's clear at some point people have to admit that genetics do play an important role, but imo, many of the created social groupings we still have today are outdated and need to be removed, replaced with individuals. and yes i know this extreme "woke" movement is doint the exact opposite.

  5. #30
    Elite member
    Join Date
    23-02-15
    Location
    Groningen
    Posts
    1,157

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1b/ E-V22

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Germanic
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    well, i can't say a lot about scandinavia, since i do not know the general opinion of the people there. but what if there aren't that many complains because the problems really aren't that big? or the majoirity of people agrees with it? i also think the situations in denmark norway and sweden are all different anyways. in the interview you posted i can not see a lot of "wokeness" either.
    In the interview with those scandinavians,Peterson makes the claim that the more egalitarian a society is the more unequal are men and women. and that this is mostly because of biology. when the women talked it was mostly because of this claim. and i see no real denial of science here. Peterson imo failed to explain his point understandable.

    the causality is not clear between egalitarism and those differences. let's assume more egalitarian societies are more wealthy thus in theory people probably have more freedom of choice. but does this mean that the choices made are entirely or mostly biologically explainable? because egalitarian societies today might still have a different understanding of what women or men have to be despite giving them more freedom of choice. this would mean when Jordan says that by reducing cultural influence you increase biological influence it is not really this clear. it could also be, that by reducing influence of one cultural aspect you increase the influence of simply another cultural aspect.

    the study in Science which Peterson mentions several times for example did not make the claim that that the observed differences between men and women in egalitarian societies are mostly biological. in fact, if the study is indeed the one, then the authors even say that there must be a cultural factor, because of the observed variation within genders and that the observed differences are not that big.

    Peterson might have a point, but saying that there is no cultural problem at all is maybe not really good either. i know men who openly admitted, that when they get beaten in something, doesn't matter what, it hurts more for them if it was a women. this might also be biological who knows. in the past the opponent of a man was usually another man. maybe men are also programmed to work togehter or make deals more likely with other men because in the past this was maybe more beneficial.
    it's clear at some point people have to admit that genetics do play an important role, but imo, many of the created social groupings we still have today are outdated and need to be removed, replaced with individuals. and yes i know this extreme "woke" movement is doint the exact opposite.

    I don't know if woke has something to with regarding that people are 'created equal'. In others words: differentiated but all with an inborn human dignity.....

  6. #31
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,979

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    One could point the finger at woke rhetoric for inspiring the the mass-shooting that left 10 people dead in Colorado.

    Apparently, the brother of the suspect said that the shooter was paranoid about Islamophobia:

    https://www.newsweek.com/ahmad-aliss...friend-1578167

    Perhaps some political leaders on the left should be held accountable for inspiring a terrorist attack.

  7. #32
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,651


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    well, i can't say a lot about scandinavia, since i do not know the general opinion of the people there. but what if there aren't that many complains because the problems really aren't that big? or the majoirity of people agrees with it? i also think the situations in denmark norway and sweden are all different anyways. in the interview you posted i can not see a lot of "wokeness" either.
    In the interview with those scandinavians,Peterson makes the claim that the more egalitarian a society is the more unequal are men and women. and that this is mostly because of biology. when the women talked it was mostly because of this claim. and i see no real denial of science here. Peterson imo failed to explain his point understandable.

    the causality is not clear between egalitarism and those differences. let's assume more egalitarian societies are more wealthy thus in theory people probably have more freedom of choice. but does this mean that the choices made are entirely or mostly biologically explainable? because egalitarian societies today might still have a different understanding of what women or men have to be despite giving them more freedom of choice. this would mean when Jordan says that by reducing cultural influence you increase biological influence it is not really this clear. it could also be, that by reducing influence of one cultural aspect you increase the influence of simply another cultural aspect.

    the study in Science which Peterson mentions several times for example did not make the claim that that the observed differences between men and women in egalitarian societies are mostly biological. in fact, if the study is indeed the one, then the authors even say that there must be a cultural factor, because of the observed variation within genders and that the observed differences are not that big.

    Peterson might have a point, but saying that there is no cultural problem at all is maybe not really good either. i know men who openly admitted, that when they get beaten in something, doesn't matter what, it hurts more for them if it was a women. this might also be biological who knows. in the past the opponent of a man was usually another man. maybe men are also programmed to work togehter or make deals more likely with other men because in the past this was maybe more beneficial.
    it's clear at some point people have to admit that genetics do play an important role, but imo, many of the created social groupings we still have today are outdated and need to be removed, replaced with individuals. and yes i know this extreme "woke" movement is doint the exact opposite.
    Wasn't my point precisely that there is no controversy because everyone has conformed to those ideas? It's only mainly in the "Anglophone world" that there is still resistance.

    Everything the Scandinavians argued in that clip is what "WOKE" people would say.

    You completely misunderstand what Peterson said and the nature of the division of viewpoint.

    Let me put it in very simple terms.

    NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY.

    As Peterson has said ad nauseam, no decent person would argue that there shouldn't be equality of opportunity for men/women, different races, religions, ethnicities, and on and on.

    The issue is what explains the INEQUALITY OF RESULT AND WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT IT.

    The woke world view which has taken over, for example, Sweden, says that inequality of result is because of the social conditioning of women, to use the man/woman situation. Therefore, to use an easily quantifiable example, there are less women in STEM fields (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) because they are socially conditioned to not want to enter into those fields. If any disparity exists, quotas should be mandated.

    What Peterson is pointing out is that there is a mountain of scientific literature which indisputably shows that as social constraints against women are removed, women in the STEM fields don't increase; they don't even stay stable; they DECREASE.

    The woke response is that we'll just have to push girls harder to enter those fields.

    That isn't free choice. Women in Sweden are free to choose. They CHOOSE, by increasing numbers, NOT to enter those fields but to enter fields where people are more important than objects. That is an innate temperamental difference between men and women ON AVERAGE.

    As he has also said ad nauseam: men and women are more alike than they are different. If you look at a graph and choose random men and women from the center of the distribution curve, men are about 60% more likely than women to be violent. I don't know the figure offhand for interest in engineering, for example. HOWEVER, if you go to the extremes and look at 100 people, the violent ones are all men. Higher order mathematics and engineering would show the same kind of skew.

    You aren't going to get equality of outcome in some of these areas by insisting that girls play with blocks or by forcing them into higher order math. If you force firms to hire 50% female engineers and 50% male engineers regardless of qualifications, you're going to get a less competent group of engineers.

    All that should matter in professions or college admissions is COMPETENCE, or we are doomed as societies.

    I find him crystal clear in his explanations. I don't understand the issue in understanding him.

  8. #33
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    700


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Wasn't my point precisely that there is no controversy because everyone has conformed to those ideas? It's only mainly in the "Anglophone world" that there is still resistance.

    Everything the Scandinavians argued in that clip is what "WOKE" people would say.

    You completely misunderstand what Peterson said and the nature of the division of viewpoint.

    Let me put it in very simple terms.

    NONE OF THIS HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY.

    As Peterson has said ad nauseam, no decent person would argue that there shouldn't be equality of opportunity for men/women, different races, religions, ethnicities, and on and on.

    The issue is what explains the INEQUALITY OF RESULT AND WHAT SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT IT.

    The woke world view which has taken over, for example, Sweden, says that inequality of result is because of the social conditioning of women, to use the man/woman situation. Therefore, to use an easily quantifiable example, there are less women in STEM fields (Science, Technology, Engineering and Math) because they are socially conditioned to not want to enter into those fields. If any disparity exists, quotas should be mandated.

    What Peterson is pointing out is that there is a mountain of scientific literature which indisputably shows that as social constraints against women are removed, women in the STEM fields don't increase; they don't even stay stable; they DECREASE.

    The woke response is that we'll just have to push girls harder to enter those fields.

    That isn't free choice. Women in Sweden are free to choose. They CHOOSE, by increasing numbers, NOT to enter those fields but to enter fields where people are more important than objects. That is an innate temperamental difference between men and women ON AVERAGE.

    As he has also said ad nauseam: men and women are more alike than they are different. If you look at a graph and choose random men and women from the center of the distribution curve, men are about 60% more likely than women to be violent. I don't know the figure offhand for interest in engineering, for example. HOWEVER, if you go to the extremes and look at 100 people, the violent ones are all men. Higher order mathematics and engineering would show the same kind of skew.

    You aren't going to get equality of outcome in some of these areas by insisting that girls play with blocks or by forcing them into higher order math. If you force firms to hire 50% female engineers and 50% male engineers regardless of qualifications, you're going to get a less competent group of engineers.

    All that should matter in professions or college admissions is COMPETENCE, or we are doomed as societies.

    I find him crystal clear in his explanations. I don't understand the issue in understanding him.
    your point wasn't only that everyone has conformed to those ideas but that this happened because the resistance has been squashed. how would you know that?

    just because those scandinavians said something that "woke" people would say doesn't mean that they are "woke" nor that they are wrong.

    i think i didn't misunderstand Peterson. he made several different points in his interview, with some of them i agree btw, but one of them, which was the one adressed by the women, namely that in egalitarian societies the difference between men and women is mostly biological, is not supported by the paper he himself mentions.

  9. #34
    Elite member
    Join Date
    23-02-15
    Location
    Groningen
    Posts
    1,157

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    E1b1b/ E-V22

    Ethnic group
    North Sea Germanic
    Country: Netherlands



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    One could point the finger at woke rhetoric for inspiring the the mass-shooting that left 10 people dead in Colorado.

    Apparently, the brother of the suspect said that the shooter was paranoid about Islamophobia:

    https://www.newsweek.com/ahmad-aliss...friend-1578167

    Perhaps some political leaders on the left should be held accountable for inspiring a terrorist attack.
    I don't get that kind of thought.....I don't see the connection between "the left" who is the left? And make the connection plausible of "the left" with a paranoïd type?

  10. #35
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    12-11-19
    Posts
    218


    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    If I were to make an ethnic based analysis of the situation in Sweden I would instead propose that political correctness (or Wokeness, to use the new term) has so completely taken over countries like Sweden because of an, imo, unfortunate tendency toward over-conformism, as Swedes themselves seem to acknowledge.

    Question: Is Sweden the most politically correct country in Europe?

    Henrik Robeck



    , former Naval Officer at Royal Swedish Navy (1986-2001)


    "Yes, I would definitely say that is the case.Swedish people have always been a consensus striving nation, we don’t like different opinions and we like to argue and convince the other part of a discussion.
    Today there is almost no tolerance towards different opinions and people are, like most millennial's offended if someone disagrees.
    We have taken it to another level as people who are not considered being politically correct are actually in breach of something called “värdegrunden” (värde = values, grund =foundation) and that is by new policies a breach against the “common belief” that people can get fired from state employment, just as if you had committed a crime or other infractions of the law.


    There is a dental hygienist who reported that several of the so called “unaccompanied children” had fully developed wisdom teeth and therefore could not possibly be anything but adults, to the immigration office. While that was the instruction as only refugees and unaccompanied children has the right to free dental care, his employer fired him for breaking the “värdegrund” and won the case in court, thus the hygienist had to pay for the proceedings, in total the sum of £60,000.
    I fully believe the “political correctness” has gone the furthest as anyone not fully adhering to the correct views are considered a fascist, Internet troll or worse, even the press who should be the “third power” to keep a vigilant eye on the possible abuse from the state, is more conducting a witch hunt of people expression their opinion about the political policies and decisions that affects the Swedish citizens."


    That is why, as I said above, you don't hear complaints against "Wokeness" (or Political Correctness, to use the original term) from Scandinavia. There is no more dissent; it has been quashed. It's all very logical if you just look at the facts non-ideologically, and, if I might say so, without always approaching things from a "Nordic" is always better perspective.

    Instead of this kind of attempt to view the situation always in terms lauding one's own part of Europe, I would suggest picking up the books of Marx and reading them, and also a good history of the Soviet Union, especially in the 20s, 30s, and 40s. That would hopefully lead to more informed opinions on the matter. This is a problem which far supersedes petty European divisions. It affects all the world's democracies.
    My impression is that the mood in Scandinavia has shifted completely during the 2015 migration crisis.
    Political correctness still exists and is still being preached and broadcasted through certain channels, but it has lost it's audience, except for some die-hards.

  11. #36
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,979

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    I don't get that kind of thought.....I don't see the connection between "the left" who is the left? And make the connection plausible of "the left" with a paranoïd type?
    Apparently, Ilhan Omar, a U.S. representative is facing backlash for mentioning that the shooter was what she thought a white male, and tried to make a point about it. But it turns out he was a ethnic-Syrian Muslim.

    https://nypost.com/2021/03/24/ilhan-...-alissas-race/

    I don't understand, I thought Islam was a religion, and even white people can be Muslim, like Albanians. As a matter of fact, it is ironic, because if Ilhan Omar went to some Islamic countries, they might abuse her for being a black Ethiopian. I don't think they really care what religion she is.

    The recent case of Alem Dechesa brought to light the horrors faced by migrant workers in Lebanon. Dechesa, a domestic worker from Ethiopia, committed suicide after suffering terrible mental and physical abuse at the hands of her Lebanese employers, whose savage beating of her in front of the Ethiopian Consulate went viral last year.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/7/7/confronting-anti-black-racism-in-the-arab-world

  12. #37
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,979

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Maybe U.S. Representative Ilhan Omar should go to the funerals of these individuals and give their grieving families a woke lecture:


  13. #38
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,651


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    your point wasn't only that everyone has conformed to those ideas but that this happened because the resistance has been squashed. how would you know that?

    just because those scandinavians said something that "woke" people would say doesn't mean that they are "woke" nor that they are wrong.

    i think i didn't misunderstand Peterson. he made several different points in his interview, with some of them i agree btw, but one of them, which was the one adressed by the women, namely that in egalitarian societies the difference between men and women is mostly biological, is not supported by the paper he himself mentions.
    Did you read the papers? If you had and had understood them there is no way you could make that statement, but I'm not here to teach reading comprehension at the level of these kinds of papers or, for that matter, logic. Nowhere, btw, did he say it is MOSTLY biological. Straw man arguments are childish at this level of discourse.

  14. #39
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    700


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Apparently, Ilhan Omar, a U.S. representative is facing backlash for mentioning that the shooter was what she thought a white male, and tried to make a point about it. But it turns out he was a ethnic-Syrian Muslim.

    https://nypost.com/2021/03/24/ilhan-...-alissas-race/

    I don't understand, I thought Islam was a religion, and even white people can be Muslim, like Albanians. As a matter of fact, it is ironic, because if Ilhan Omar went to some Islamic countries, they might abuse her for being a black Ethiopian. I don't think they really care what religion she is.
    what i don't understand is how someone can be "misidentified" as white rofl. how is that even possible? and aren't people from near east white anyways?

  15. #40
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    700


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Did you read the papers? If you had and had understood them there is no way you could make that statement, but I'm not here to teach reading comprehension at the level of these kinds of papers or, for that matter, logic. Nowhere, btw, did he say it is MOSTLY biological. Straw man arguments are childish at this level of discourse.
    oh please then let me quote him. at 11:30 in the clip he says:"and so you get differences in occupational choice, that are also btw quite great in scandinavia, especially in the case of engineering and nursing. they are mostly due to biological differences."

    also here some words from one of the authors of the paper that appeared in science: "The biggest misinterpretation could be that our results indicate that social or gender-specific roles do not matter in the formation of gender differences in preferences,” “I do think that they matter a lot.”

  16. #41
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,979

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    what i don't understand is how someone can be "misidentified" as white rofl. how is that even possible? and aren't people from near east white anyways?
    It happened, not just Omar, but several news outlets claimed that the shooter was a "white male".



    He looks like a white guy to me, but the thing is, why did Omar feel the need to comment on his race? She purports that the news unfairly points out the race of non-whites when there is a crime. Idk what she's talking about, because I never see the news point that out. Rather, she, and the news jumped at the opportunity to claim he was a white male without even verifying it. Lo and behold, he was a middle easterner whose own brother said was mentally ill and paranoid about islamophobia. Possibly having his paranoia vindicated by people like Omar, and other members of the Democratic party using woke rhetoric which could have had an effect on his vulnerable mind. Now the news is asking what was his motive...

    According to the U.S. census, Near easterners, and North Africans are considered "Non-Hispanic White".

    But in matters of political rhetoric, Near Easterners are not white in the United States.

  17. #42
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,979

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    In complete violation of Omar's view that "the media always points out the race of non-white killers", here is an example of the opposite, just last week:
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/4751240001/
    The media was quick to assume that the killer was a white supremacist, or killed because because of "white violence". But according to the killer he did it because of sexual frustration. Who knows, maybe he was a racist, idk. The man was certainly a low-life, and much worse a cold-blooded murderer:
    Last edited by Jovialis; 26-03-21 at 14:19.

  18. #43
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,979

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^both were about 21. Maybe bad parenting is partly to blame? Or is the younger generation so screwed up because of the internet? I didn't have a PC until I was old enough to buy one myself, and I am grateful for that.

  19. #44
    Advisor Angela's Avatar
    Join Date
    02-01-11
    Posts
    19,651


    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: USA - New York



    3 members found this post helpful.
    In certain segments of society "WOKENESS" has become a disease. Someone whom I follow on twitter mentioned that a friend of hers, a professor, mind you, recounted that she cried for a week because she had given birth to a boy, who would inevitably grow up to become a white male oppressor, and of her "hatred" for her husband because he had the ability to sleep there beside her unaware. Unaware of what I don't know; perhaps of her crazy, obsessive thoughts?

    Or was he just sleeping because she was nursing and there was nothing for him to do. Is the fact that she is able to nurse her child and therefore give him the best nutrition possible, all her immunities etc. a curse? Yes, it is exhausting because for months they need to be fed every two hours and you become sleep deprived. Yes, it makes working outside the home immediately after birth extraordinarily difficult if not impossible. On the other hand, the unique bonding experience between mother and nursing infant is an extraordinary joy and one men should envy.

    This ideology is becoming like the religion of the Inquisition or like Fascism and Marxism in their heyday. People lose their common sense, their ability to think rationally, and it interferes with all their natural impulses, even the joy of motherhood.

    The scary thing is that they start teaching this stuff now in the third grade if not before.

    As for young men like the one above, he is an emblem of a very large societal problem. Imo, the fracture of the nuclear family, the number of young boys raised in households headed by women means they lack proper male role modeling unless someone in the mother's circle steps in. Add in the value less nature of modern culture, or perhaps of a culture which glorifies the values of materialism and self-gratification, resulting in a lack of purpose and true meaning in life, and the more mentally fragile among us crumble. Young men may become prone to violence, and young women to self harm in various forms. It's a tragedy.

    Modern culture is, imo, toxic, and the further you can keep your children away from it, the better.

  20. #45
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,979

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    In complete violation of Omar's view that "the media always points out the race of non-white killers", here is an example of the opposite, just last week:
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...st/4751240001/
    The media was quick to assume that the killer was a white supremacist, or killed because because of "white violence". But according to the killer he did it because of sexual frustration. Who knows, maybe he was a racist, idk. The man was certainly a low-life, and much worse a cold-blooded murderer:
    I think it is actually a sexual frustration motivated murder, sort of like Eliot Rogers. Since two of the victims were white.

  21. #46
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    700


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    It happened, not just Omar, but several news outlets claimed that the shooter was a "white male".



    He looks like a white guy to me, but the thing is, why did Omar feel the need to comment on his race? She purports that the news unfairly points out the race of non-whites when there is a crime. Idk what she's talking about, because I never see the news point that out. Rather, she, and the news jumped at the opportunity to claim he was a white male without even verifying it. Lo and behold, he was a middle easterner whose own brother said was mentally ill and paranoid about islamophobia. Possibly having his paranoia vindicated by people like Omar, and other members of the Democratic party using woke rhetoric which could have had an effect on his vulnerable mind. Now the news is asking what was his motive...

    According to the U.S. census, Near easterners, and North Africans are considered "Non-Hispanic White".

    But in matters of political rhetoric, Near Easterners are not white in the United States.
    why should they verfiy if he was white when he obviously is white? if she changed her opinion because he is muslim then she's wrong like all the others who say he was "misidentified" as white.

    why are near easterners not white in political rhetoric in the US? another reason to remove those bs categories, they only create differences where they do not exist.

  22. #47
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,979

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    why should they verfiy if he was white when he obviously is white? if she changed her opinion because he is muslim then she's wrong like all the others who say he was "misidentified" as white.
    why are near easterners not white in political rhetoric in the US? another reason to remove those bs categories, they only create differences where they do not exist.
    Not just political rethoric, but average people, including near easterners, do not consider them white in the United States. At least that's the broad view.

    Being Muslim in the U.S. is considered to be a non-white designation. Regardless of the fact there are genetically white Muslims

    This is a veiw held by both left and right wing people.

  23. #48
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    18-03-17
    Posts
    700


    Ethnic group
    swiss,italian
    Country: Germany



    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Not just political rethoric, but average people, including near easterners, do not consider them white in the United States. At least that's the broad view.
    Being Muslim in the U.S. is considered to be a non-white designation. Regardless of the fact there are genetically white Muslims
    This is a veiw held by both left and right wing people.

    you could ask, why should near easterners consider themselves "white" in the US census when it seems that most people in the US do not think of them that way? and then it is also not surprising why Omar doesn't think that whites can be muslims or vice versa. seems like it is not entirely her fault to think that way.

    what is this term "white" even worth in that case and why is it used when it should be better replaces with more accurate terms that make clear you are talking about culture and not "race"? this way it's just inaccruate in every way you look at it and just creates confusion.
    Last edited by Ailchu; 27-03-21 at 19:00.

  24. #49
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,979

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    https://www.google.com/amp/s/newyork...n-assault/amp/

    This story is grizzly, there's been a rash of violence against Asians, and it seems that very often it is Blacks targeting them. This 38 year old man who was on parole for murdering his own mother in 2002, brutally beat an elderly Asian woman in the street, repeatedly kicking her in the face. All while shouting racial slurs at her. He was out of prison and living in a shelter; is it really a shock this would happen? Anyone that would murder their own mother deserves the death penalty or life with no chance for parole. Woke activists have tried to link this violence to the influence of white supremacy. But I think most regular people will see it for what it is. It seems as though woke activists blame everything on white supremacy, in a similar way that Nazis blame Jews for everything that is wrong in the world.

  25. #50
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
    Join Date
    04-05-17
    Posts
    5,979

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    R1b1a1b2a2a
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H6a1b7

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States




    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    you could ask, why should near easterners consider themselves "white" in the US census when it seems that most people in the US do not think of them that way? and then it is also not surprising why Omar doesn't think that whites can be muslims or vice versa. seems like it is not entirely her fault to think that way.
    what is this term "white" even worth in that case and why is it used when it should be better replaces with more accurate terms that make clear you are talking about culture and not "race"? this way it's just inaccruate in every way you look at it and just creates confusion.
    Near easterners in the U.S. pursued being legally white for property rights, and immigration purposes. Finns had to do the same thing, as did most others that weren't originally considered "white" i.e. Anglo-Saxon and Protestant.

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •