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Thread: "WOKE" America

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    Noah Green: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com


    So when a 25 year old Nation of Islam advocate rams a car into the Capitol, and murders police officers with a knife, that ISN'T considered "terrorism"?!

    The Latest: Terrorism not suspected in deadly Capitol attack (apnews.com)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    There argument was that Jesus Christ was a near easterner. Thus if near easterners were not white, than Jesus Christ was not white either, nor allowed in the USA. As Christians, the U.S. courts could not let that be. So they made it that near easterners were considered white.
    i would rather say "as christians and as racists the U.S. courts could not let that be". and that was not even 100 years ago? the fact that the U.S. still use a racial system is proof and probably also consequence of the tribalism of the society there. that's also the sole reason why some people even care about the racial composition of the population.

    imo the discussion if near east is white or not is not just because of religion but also due to the nordicist character that the the "white" race category always had and still has.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    i would rather say "as christians and as racists the U.S. courts could not let that be". and that was not even 100 years ago? the fact that the U.S. still use a racial system is proof and probably also consequence of the tribalism of the society there. that's also the sole reason why some people even care about the racial composition of the population.

    imo the discussion if near east is white or not is not just because of religion but also due to the nordicist character that the the "white" race category always had and still has.
    The racial categories in the United States are more based on outmoded and benighted social constructs. I would say genetics shows us that near easterners, and other west Eurasians share a lot of overlapping source populations. Moreover, Near Easterners are genetically closer to Europeans, than some people broadly designated as "Black" are to one another.

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    This is what parents are being told:

    "Biracial students K-12 students with one white parent are having an especially tough time. If they choose the "white identifying group," they're told they need to go to the BIPOC group (or lunch) b/c they are "brown" and "you can never truly be yourself around white people..

    So it's not only virtuous, but mandated that the "one drop rule" be brought back.


    It will also be good to bring back segregation I guess: University of Michigan Conference on Education advocates:

    "
    'affinity group for white folx and affinity group for people of color'"


    Trans advocates are promoting chemically delayed puberty as not a bad thing.

    The All Stars Baseball game has been pulled from Georgia because of a new law that, horror of horrors, says that you can't vote unless you present a picture ID.

    Don't these people realize that they're basically saying that minorities are too stupid to figure out how to get one? One call to Social Services, if they don't have access to a computer, would get them the information that all they have to do is go to the Department of Motor Vehicles and they'll issue them a non-driving ID. If they can get to the Social Services Department to register for benefits, they can't go to the Motor Vehicles building so they can vote?

    For the first time I truly understand how the Nazis could have brainwashed an entire nation so quickly. Most people are just sheep.

    The world is going mad.

    "



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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    This is what parents are being told:


    So it's not only virtuous, but mandated that the "one drop rule" be brought back.


    It will also be good to bring back segregation I guess: University of Michigan Conference on Education advocates:


    the one drop rule was never gone. maybe you could even argue that segregation has never truly disappeared.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    the one drop rule was never gone. maybe you could even argue that segregation has never truly disappeared.
    I guess as a foreigner you don't understand that people, as many white people as "people of color" marched in the hundreds of thousands and died so that black children could go to "white" schools even if both white and black children had to be bused so that schools would be desegregated.

    It's an insult to their memory to now bring back segregation, and not only that, but to not allow bi-racial children to identify as exactly what they are: bi-racial.

    Does everything you post here have to be insensitive and insulting?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I guess as a foreigner you don't understand that people, as many white people as "people of color" marched in the hundreds of thousands and died so that black children could go to "white" schools even if both white and black children had to be bused so that schools would be desegregated.

    It's an insult to their memory to now bring back segregation, and not only that, but to not allow bi-racial children to identify as exactly what they are: bi-racial.

    Does everything you post here have to be insensitive and insulting?
    Nevertheless also foreigners can see that segregation is still a thing in the US.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Nevertheless also foreigners can see that segregation is still a thing in the US.....
    That is partly because during the Cold War, the USSR made a lot of anti-American propaganda in order to court allies from former colonial nations in Latin America, Africa, and Asia. Often these nations had very large non-white constituencies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    That is partly because during the Cold War, the USSR made a lot of anti-American propaganda in order to court allies from former colonial nations in Latin America, Africa, and Asia. Often these nations had very large non-white constituencies.
    Come on West Europe was not part of the "East Bloc" so no vulnerability on that point....

    This was real:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_campaign
    And not so long ago.

    This is not an attempt to moralize the thing, with a look at Fort Elmina in nowadays Ghana I know the "Dutch contribution" on this issue.

    Nevertheless the US had large plantations on which the slaves lived, that was known in the European colonies, but not inside the European countries.

    This still has a heritage in the US....until today, see the attempt recently in Georgia of the reps to 'prevent certain groups for voting' and the discussion about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirm...20and%20health.
    To mention some but not all things.

    Of course when you live in a country you are better informed (mostly), nevertheless we read papers, watch TV, have internet....and that is not controlled by the Ruski's, the Chinese or whatsoever, we have a long history of free press and free word, from Erasmus to Spinoza, Jovialis!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    That is partly because during the Cold War, the USSR made a lot of anti-American propaganda in order to court allies from former colonial nations in Latin America, Africa, and Asia. Often these nations had very large non-white constituencies.
    Their knowledge of things on the ground completely lacks subtlety and an understanding of the various factors at play, like migration patterns and class.

    As I'm sure you know but they don't, in most cases, as far as where people live, it's a function of geography and "class", not "race". My husband, whose parents were working class, went to a high school and thus lived in a neighborhood where 30% of the kids were black, among which were some of his best friends.

    If you're on welfare, you don't live in working class neighborhoods, much less middle class ones. If you're on welfare and live in a large city, a lot of the people around you will be black and Hispanic, although not all, depending on the city. In the American southwest, there will be lots of unskilled Hispanics. In the northern states you'll have a lot of blacks because that's where they migrated when the factories were humming. It seemed like a better bet than the south, where attitudes were also different.

    If you're on welfare in rural areas like the "hollers" of the Appalachians, everybody will be white, as they will be in rural Montana. You won't find many black people there at all. It's ranch country. The concentration of black people in the mountain states is very small. It's even small in the Pacific Northwest. That's white and East Asian country.

    If you're a black executive or doctor or lawyer and you choose to do so you can live in the mostly white upper class neighborhoods and your children will go to those schools. Yes, they'll be in the minority, but people shouldn't forget that blacks only represent about 12% of the population anyway.

    My children went to public schools where, yes, the majority were white, but there were quite a few kids of East Asian or South Asian ancestry and yes, a few black families.

    All of this has nothing to do with government racism or even individual racism. It has to do with migration patterns, education levels, and economics. If you didn't finish high school, or did but are only capable of minimum wage jobs, you're not going to be living in middle class or upper middle class neighborhoods. That's just reality. My closest friend is Jamaican. I would have loved to have her living closer by, but she and her husband are social workers. They can't afford it. It has nothing to do with race.

    This is why you have to be very careful with statistics. They give you national averages of, say, how many minorities live in "mixed" communities. They don't tell you why.

    I find it particularly galling when such criticisms come from countries where the "segregation" is infinitely worse. What about France, or Belgium, or Germany or even England? How "mixed" are their communities? Or do all the "non-native ancestry" people wind up all living together.

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    "WOKE" America

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Their knowledge of things on the ground completely lacks subtlety and an understanding of the various factors at play, like migration patterns and class.

    As I'm sure you know but they don't, in most cases, as far as where people live, it's a function of geography and "class", not "race". My husband, whose parents were working class, went to a high school and thus lived in a neighborhood where 30% of the kids were black, among which were some of his best friends.

    If you're on welfare, you don't live in working class neighborhoods, much less middle class ones. If you're on welfare and live in a large city, a lot of the people around you will be black and Hispanic, although not all, depending on the city. In the American southwest, there will be lots of unskilled Hispanics. In the northern states you'll have a lot of blacks because that's where they migrated when the factories were humming. It seemed like a better bet than the south, where attitudes were also different.

    If you're on welfare in rural areas like the "hollers" of the Appalachians, everybody will be white, as they will be in rural Montana. You won't find many black people there at all. It's ranch country. The concentration of black people in the mountain states is very small. It's even small in the Pacific Northwest. That's white and East Asian country.

    If you're a black executive or doctor or lawyer and you choose to do so you can live in the mostly white upper class neighborhoods and your children will go to those schools. Yes, they'll be in the minority, but people shouldn't forget that blacks only represent about 12% of the population anyway.

    My children went to public schools where, yes, the majority were white, but there were quite a few kids of East Asian or South Asian ancestry and yes, a few black families.

    All of this has nothing to do with government racism or even individual racism. It has to do with migration patterns, education levels, and economics. If you didn't finish high school, or did but are only capable of minimum wage jobs, you're not going to be living in middle class or upper middle class neighborhoods. That's just reality. My closest friend is Jamaican. I would have loved to have her living closer by, but she and her husband are social workers. They can't afford it. It has nothing to do with race.

    This is why you have to be very careful with statistics. They give you national averages of, say, how many minorities live in "mixed" communities. They don't tell you why.

    I find it particularly galling when such criticisms come from countries where the "segregation" is infinitely worse. What about France, or Belgium, or Germany or even England? How "mixed" are their communities? Or do all the "non-native ancestry" people wind up all living together.

    Talking about sublety, your most recent posting about corona: 'Europeans, in my experience, are suckers for every conspiracy theory that floats to the surface, and true to form they're much more unwilling to take the vaccine.' huh huh

    Fact is that of course there is a black middle class in your country, but on average blacks are still more lower class and are living in the poorer area's of the cities. Convince me with the right stats that I'm wrong....and of course the situation on a micro level can be different. But the exception is not the rule.

    The fact is that we know in the Netherlands also kinds of segregation, that is due to the fact that until late in the twentieth century most countries like the Dutch or Danes were very homogeneous (in fact the Danes for example even more because the Dutch had some religious chisma's catholic vs protestant etc). The decolonization (with some people going to the ex-colonizer like from Indonesia or Surinam) and since the seventies the people from Turkey and Maroc etc who mostly worked in the industries. But the Dutch situation is not that extreme as in the US. No banlieus, no no go area's here...

    But on the whole it's apples and oranges. We know no communities who were generations ago still slaves. And the US was always a melting pot.
    Last edited by Northener; 17-04-21 at 22:37. Reason: typo's

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I guess as a foreigner you don't understand that people, as many white people as "people of color" marched in the hundreds of thousands and died so that black children could go to "white" schools even if both white and black children had to be bused so that schools would be desegregated.

    It's an insult to their memory to now bring back segregation, and not only that, but to not allow bi-racial children to identify as exactly what they are: bi-racial.

    Does everything you post here have to be insensitive and insulting?
    it is insulting for them that the U.S. still have to use a racial classification system and it is also insulting that some people in the U.S. actually still care which "race" makes up the majority of the population.
    the reason why bi-racial people often identifiy as black in the U.S. is probably at least partially because they are affected by the exact same discrimation(one drop rule) so they feel like they belong to them. why do bi-racial people even have to identify as part of a race or as a mixture? it makes no sense to make a difference here when for many people this difference doesn't matter. after all, those categories are mainly there to counter discrimation aren't they? yay i'm going to tick the "mixed" box on the next census. what is the purpose?
    why not identify for example as americans? you have to get rid of this imo because this way of thinking stands in the way of forming a cohesive society. i know that would probably cause a big upheaval on both right and left in the U.S. but imo the best start is that the state gets rid of these categories.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I find it particularly galling when such criticisms come from countries where the "segregation" is infinitely worse. What about France, or Belgium, or Germany or even England? How "mixed" are their communities? Or do all the "non-native ancestry" people wind up all living together.
    can you give examples why the segregation should be worse in germany than in the U.S? similar maybe but infinitely worse?

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    ... there’s no segregation, there’s self-segregation.

    ... as long there’s Affirmative Action, Quotas, hypothetical Reparation, ... the racial (and others) classifications are needed to find out who’s eligible to these programs.

    it seems offensive to many but not offensive to the beneficiaries ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    Talking about sublety, your most recent posting about corona: 'Europeans, in my experience, are suckers for every conspiracy theory that floats to the surface, and true to form they're much more unwilling to take the vaccine.' huh huh

    Fact is that of course there is a black middle class in your country, but on average blacks are still more lower class and are living in the poorer area's of the cities. Convince me with the right stats that I'm wrong....and of course the situation on a micro level can be different. But the exception is not the rule.

    The fact is that we know in the Netherlands also kinds of segregation, that is due to the fact that until late in the twentieth century most countries like the Dutch or Danes were very homogeneous (in fact the Danes for example even more because the Dutch had some religious chisma's catholic vs protestant etc). The decolonization (with some people going to the ex-colonizer like from Indonesia or Surinam) and since the seventies the people from Turkey and Maroc etc that who mostly work in the industries. But fro the Netherlands the situation is not that extreme as in the US. No banlieus, no no go area's here...

    But on the whole it's apples and oranges. We know no communities who were generations ago still slaves. And the US was always a melting pot.
    You're a master of not admitting that you were wrong and then going on to agree with what I said in the post to which you were responding. What I and YOU are describing is NOT segregation. Segregation is not where poor people live in the neighborhoods they can afford. Are you going to change the definition of words now?

    Segregation is the state or housing associations NOT ALLOWING "people of color" to buy. The latter proscriptions were in deeds. Those are now unconstitutional. If a black family or Hispanic family has the money to buy a house in my prior neighborhood or this one there is NO problem. PERIOD. If an Indonesian or North African family had the money to buy a house in your neighborhood would it be A OK with the neighbors? I don't know, because I'm not Dutch. I know my state and suburbs, and there would be absolutely no problem. The fact that Blacks have been here for three hundred years is is irrelevant, and South Asians are certainly new arrivals. Is racism OK in Europe because they're not used to different kinds of people. People living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    it is insulting for them that the U.S. still have to use a racial classification system and it is also insulting that some people in the U.S. actually still care which "race" makes up the majority of the population.
    the reason why bi-racial people often identifiy as black in the U.S. is probably at least partially because they are affected by the exact same discrimation(one drop rule) so they feel like they belong to them. why do bi-racial people even have to identify as part of a race or as a mixture? it makes no sense to make a difference here when for many people this difference doesn't matter. after all, those categories are mainly there to counter discrimation aren't they? yay i'm going to tick the "mixed" box on the next census. what is the purpose?
    why not identify for example as americans? you have to get rid of this imo because this way of thinking stands in the way of forming a cohesive society. i know that would probably cause a big upheaval on both right and left in the U.S. but imo the best start is that the state gets rid of these categories.



    can you give examples why the segregation should be worse in germany than in the U.S? similar maybe but infinitely worse?
    Absolute crap. For one thing we don't have people going to burn down the hostels where Turkish immigrants are living. Don't freaking talk to me about racism in Europe. German speaking Switzerland is the only country where I've ever been that I was treated terribly because I spoke in Italian, so I don't want to hear that nonsense from you.

    I'd love to know if Turkish and North African people mostly live in their own communities. By the brand new definition you and Northener are using, that's segregation too. I also know I recently watched a German tv show where people were saying they would never allow their daughters to marry a Turk, so give me a break.

    Sometimes I wonder if you really understand English. My comments about biracial children had NOTHING to do with how such children CHOOSE to identify. It had to do with the TEACHERS telling them they HAD to sit with the black children at lunch and IDENTIFY as black. That's coming from the far left WOKISTS writing the school rules, not conservatives or the vast majority of Americans, who are up in arms about it.

    If you can't understand what you read don't expect to be taken seriously. Go to some site where they write in your own language.

    As Salento also described, racial classifications are used so blacks and Hispanics can get special benefits, acceptance into college and university even if they don't have the grades, get a job for the same reason, or small business loans etc. Believe me, a lot of white people don't think its fair and race shouldn't be on the applications, but the minorities fought to get that added to the forms and for quotas being instituted giving them an advantage.

    It even goes so far that the government will redraw the voting lines so they are the majority and that way blacks and Hispanics can get elected to Congress.

    Stop talking about things of which you know nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    You're a master of not admitting that you were wrong and then going on to agree with what I said in the post to which you were responding. What I and YOU are describing is NOT segregation. Segregation is not where poor people live in the neighborhoods they can afford. Are you going to change the definition of words now?

    Segregation is the state or housing associations NOT ALLOWING "people of color" to buy. The latter proscriptions were in deeds. Those are now unconstitutional. If a black family or Hispanic family has the money to buy a house in my prior neighborhood or this one there is NO problem. PERIOD. If an Indonesian or North African family had the money to buy a house in your neighborhood would it be A OK with the neighbors? I don't know, because I'm not Dutch. I know my state and suburbs, and there would be absolutely no problem. The fact that Blacks have been here for three hundred years is is irrelevant, and South Asians are certainly new arrivals. Is racism OK in Europe because they're not used to different kinds of people. People living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
    The fact is that segregation, being black and poor income show a big correlation in the US. Segregation is imo equivalent with divided, separated. 'NOT ALLOWING "people of color" to buy' is imo a step further is apartheid. US is not apartheid. Nevertheless when being black, go highly together with being in the lower social strata and a lower income, the acces to a certain neighborhoods is more theoretic....

    And yes this is partly also the case in the Netherlands, people with a non western back ground you can find in neighborhoods which are poorer, but it simply doesn't know the scale of separation that is in the US is the case.

    That blacks carry a heritage that is connected with slavery is certainly relevant, it's not because a kind of determinism but it is certainly is a factor in 'climbing the social ladder' or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Absolute crap. For one thing we don't have people going to burn down the hostels where Turkish immigrants are living. Don't freaking talk to me about racism in Europe. German speaking Switzerland is the only country where I've ever been that I was treated terribly because I spoke in Italian, so I don't want to hear that nonsense from you.

    I'd love to know if Turkish and North African people mostly live in their own communities. By the brand new definition you and Northener are using, that's segregation too. I also know I recently watched a German tv show where people were saying they would never allow their daughters to marry a Turk, so give me a break.

    Sometimes I wonder if you really understand English. My comments about biracial children had NOTHING to do with how such children CHOOSE to identify. It had to do with the TEACHERS telling them they HAD to sit with the black children at lunch and IDENTIFY as black. That's coming from the far left WOKISTS writing the school rules, not conservatives or the vast majority of Americans, who are up in arms about it.

    If you can't understand what you read don't expect to be taken seriously. Go to some site where they write in your own language.

    As Salento also described, racial classifications are used so blacks and Hispanics can get special benefits, acceptance into college and university even if they don't have the grades, get a job for the same reason, or small business loans etc. Believe me, a lot of white people don't think its fair and race shouldn't be on the applications, but the minorities fought to get that added to the forms and for quotas being instituted giving them an advantage.

    It even goes so far that the government will redraw the voting lines so they are the majority and that way blacks and Hispanics can get elected to Congress.

    Stop talking about things of which you know nothing.
    That's really offensive to alichu imo.

    He points to the fact that obviously you use in the US still use all kinds of racial definitions. It's certain that in Germany like as fare as I know the most of Europe don't use these kind of definitions.

    The fact that racism also plays a part in Europe is true. But frankly it's imo to gross to translate your own personal trauma of Switzerland, how sadly as such, to the whole of Europe....

    And being WASP was and is certainly in US an advantage, there are still disproportionate more WASP in the US higher social strata. Even the election of Kennedy was seen as a break in this respect. As was the election of Obama.
    Last edited by Northener; 17-04-21 at 21:35.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northener View Post
    The fact is that segregation, being black and poor income show a big correlation in the US. Segregation is imo equivalent with divided, separated. 'NOT ALLOWING "people of color" to buy' is imo a step further is apartheid. US is not apartheid. Nevertheless when being black, go highly together with being in the lower social strata and a lower income, the acces to a certain neighborhoods is more theoretic....

    And yes this is partly also the case in the Netherlands, people with a non western back ground you can find in neighborhoods which are poorer, but it simply doesn't know the scale of separation that is in the US is the case.

    That blacks carry a heritage that is connected with slavery is certainly relevant, it's not because a kind of determinism but it is certainly is a factor in 'climbing the social ladder' or not.
    If you're going to try to write in English then write in English, which means using the English definitions of words.

    "seg·re·ga·tion/ˌseɡrəˈɡāSH(ə)n/

    noun


    • 1.the action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart:"the segregation of pupils with learning difficulties"
    • the enforced separation of different racial groups in a country, community, or establishment:"an official policy of racial segregation"


    Segregation is a situation IMPOSED on you; it's not a choice, or an economic outcome of the fact you don't make enough money.

    You don't get to make up your own definitions for English words. No one gives a darn what you THINK English words should mean.

    You claim more "minorities" live in Dutch or mixed neighborhoods in the Netherlands than the U.S. Prove it. I'd really be interested to see the figures for Belgium and France.

    As always you also don't answer the questions put to you. Would it be OK if someone from the Sudan or Indonesia or North Africa tried to buy a home in your neighborhood? As I said, in my neighborhood so long as you could afford it there would be no problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    If you're going to try to write in English then write in English, which means using the English definitions of words.

    "seg·re·ga·tion/ˌseɡrəˈɡāSH(ə)n/

    noun


    • 1.the action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart:"the segregation of pupils with learning difficulties"
    • the enforced separation of different racial groups in a country, community, or establishment:"an official policy of racial segregation"


    Segregation is a situation IMPOSED on you; it's not a choice, or an economic outcome of the fact you don't make enough money.

    You don't get to make up your own definitions for English words. No one gives a darn what you THINK English words should mean.

    You claim more "minorities" live in Dutch or mixed neighborhoods in the Netherlands than the U.S. Prove it. I'd really be interested to see the figures for Belgium and France.

    As always you also don't answer the questions put to you. Would it be OK if someone from the Sudan or Indonesia or North Africa tried to buy a home in your neighborhood? As I said, in my neighborhood so long as you could afford it there would be no problem.
    The prove is quite simple the incomes in the Netherlands are less polarized than in the US so per definition this is not as extreme as in the US, simply. For the big cities in Belgium and France this is more the case, Brussels knows banlieus we simply don't have.

    As for the definition I don't want to fight about the meaning of words. Racism has institutional features in the US, in the past certainly and nowadays it's still a problem. You can deny it and say the US is a perfect meritocracy, the newspaper boy can become millionaire that's more fiction than fact. And if this is leftist talk so be it....

    And yes it would be fully ok if someone from Sudan would buy a house my direct neighbours are an Italian man married with a Swiss raised woman with Dutch roots and on the other side lives an Asiatic woman raised in Denmark. My woman is halve French. I'm the only one with deep Groningen roots hahahah My parents live nowadays a few blocks away in an apartment they have seen Chinese, Russian people and have now an Algerian student next door whose parents bought the house. So the answer to your question is fully: YES.
    Last edited by Northener; 17-04-21 at 20:27. Reason: typo's

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Absolute crap. For one thing we don't have people going to burn down the hostels where Turkish immigrants are living. Don't freaking talk to me about racism in Europe. German speaking Switzerland is the only country where I've ever been that I was treated terribly because I spoke in Italian, so I don't want to hear that nonsense from you.

    I'd love to know if Turkish and North African people mostly live in their own communities. By the brand new definition you and Northener are using, that's segregation too. I also know I recently watched a German tv show where people were saying they would never allow their daughters to marry a Turk, so give me a break.
    did they specifically say it was because of his ethnicity? if not, do you really disagree with them yourself? you seem to like Fallaci, do you agree with what she wrote? i once watched an italian TV show where a women said she doesn't want people with darker skin in italy. there you have your xenophobia.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ailchu View Post
    did they specifically say it was because of his ethnicity? if not, do you really disagree with them yourself? you seem to like Fallaci, do you agree with what she wrote? i once watched an italian TV show where a women said she doesn't want people with darker skin in italy. there you have your xenophobia.
    Yes, they specifically said it was because of his ethnicity. Yes, Turks were burned alive in a hostel. Yes, skin head groups are very popular in East Germany, and the political party which represents them is also very popular, and they have completely racist attitudes. The same is true of most of Eastern Europe. The things they openly espouse would get you sent to prison here, and that's on top of never being able to get a job again. Or maybe you want to talk about Marie Le Pen and what her followers believe.

    You people only see the spot on your neighbor's face, never your own. I've seen the slums where North Africans live in Belgium and France. Don't lecture the U.S.

    As for Oriana Fallaci, there are many things I like about her; some I don't. I do know that I have no problem with Muslims immigrating to this country. A boy of Persian ancestry took my daughter to her junior prom. Had it gotten serious it would have been his parents who objected, not us. I helped Christian Middle Easterners get their papers when working for a charity organization. What I don't approve of is Muslim immigrants who come here or Europe and refuse to assimilate to western culture, demand that accommodations approximating Sharia law be instituted, want to practice female genital mutilation, and resort to honor killings if their daughters get involved with western boys. One famous example a Pakistani went into his workplace and shot dozens of people in the name of jihad one week after they had given his wife a baby shower. Two Ajerbajani boys mowed down joggers at the Boston Marathon. Other than that kind of behavior? Welcome.

    You really have some nerve talking about our views on immigration when you come from a country where you don't let anybody in, and treated and still treat fellow Europeans like scum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post

    You really have some nerve talking about our views on immigration when you come from a country where you don't let anybody in, and treated and still treat fellow Europeans like scum.
    what country are you talking about? germany/switzerland? "don't let anybody in" are you serious? "treated and still treat fellow europeans like scum" a little bit confusing, first of all i never denied there is racism, second of all if someone is "fellow european" or not doesn't matter. noone should be treated like scum and people who are not europeans aren't worse than the others. them beeing fellow human beeings is more important. and last, it is really not that bad, if you want to bring xenophobic countries sure bring germany/switzerland if you want. there are worse examples and they aren't all in eastern/southeastern europe.

    you bring Le Pen and the AfD you could also add the Fratelli or Lega. they can all disappear asap imo. the good thing is we do not use such racial categorization and hopefully never will.

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    In all European countries there is racism, here in Spain Vox, has obtained 52 deputies in Congress and has even won in one region (precisely where there are more Moors and South American migrants). But it is true that in Europe racial classifications have never been used in the census. I think Americans do it because they are afraid especially of Hispanics. You have to keep in mind that the United States is the second country in the world with the most Spanish speakers after Mexico and ahead of Colombia and Spain. Hispanic according to the census is not a race but an ethnicity (within that category you can be white, black, asian or mestizo). In this way, the USA differentiate non-Hispanic whites from Hispanic whites and thus try to control the cultural and demographic influence of that minority in the country.

    But this classification makes Mexicans, Colombians, Guatemalans, etc. living in the United States feel culturally and racially united so that even though they integrate they will always try to maintain their language, religion and customs. Many think that they are recovering and repopulating states that were always Spanish (Texas, Florida, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, California, etc.) and when they have enough demographic and economic strength, they will undoubtedly end up imposing their policies against “white” officialism.

    Americans should understand that the oldest city in the United States is St. Augustine (Florida, founded by the Spanish Governor of the State) and that the oldest State capital is Santa Fe (New Mexico). The official history of the Founding Fathers and the colonization of the West only serves a part of the population that identifies with those values. The American Indians and their Mexican cousins etc. will try to impose theirs at least in those states where they get a majority.

    In a few decades, whites will end up as minorities in all western countries because we are not able to control illegal immigration, and interracial confrontations will become more frequent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaska View Post
    In all European countries there is racism, here in Spain Vox, has obtained 52 deputies in Congress and has even won in one region (precisely where there are more Moors and South American migrants). But it is true that in Europe racial classifications have never been used in the census. I think Americans do it because they are afraid especially of Hispanics. You have to keep in mind that the United States is the second country in the world with the most Spanish speakers after Mexico and ahead of Colombia and Spain. Hispanic according to the census is not a race but an ethnicity (within that category you can be white, black, asian or mestizo). In this way, the USA differentiate non-Hispanic whites from Hispanic whites and thus try to control the cultural and demographic influence of that minority in the country.

    But this classification makes Mexicans, Colombians, Guatemalans, etc. living in the United States feel culturally and racially united so that even though they integrate they will always try to maintain their language, religion and customs. Many think that they are recovering and repopulating states that were always Spanish (Texas, Florida, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, California, etc.) and when they have enough demographic and economic strength, they will undoubtedly end up imposing their policies against “white” officialism.

    Americans should understand that the oldest city in the United States is St. Augustine (Florida, founded by the Spanish Governor of the State) and that the oldest State capital is Santa Fe (New Mexico). The official history of the Founding Fathers and the colonization of the West only serves a part of the population that identifies with those values. The American Indians and their Mexican cousins etc. will try to impose theirs at least in those states where they get a majority.

    In a few decades, whites will end up as minorities in all western countries because we are not able to control illegal immigration, and interracial confrontations will become more frequent.

    That's also true for the Netherlands, alt right wing populist won the last election in march. The (neo)liberals are the biggest party, but the second is Wilders PVV, right wing populist. Nephews of Trump.

    I hope the last thing we get is a kind of "Yugoslavia scenario" in the US.....or in Europe.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaska View Post
    In all European countries there is racism, here in Spain Vox, has obtained 52 deputies in Congress and has even won in one region (precisely where there are more Moors and South American migrants). But it is true that in Europe racial classifications have never been used in the census. I think Americans do it because they are afraid especially of Hispanics. You have to keep in mind that the United States is the second country in the world with the most Spanish speakers after Mexico and ahead of Colombia and Spain. Hispanic according to the census is not a race but an ethnicity (within that category you can be white, black, asian or mestizo). In this way, the USA differentiate non-Hispanic whites from Hispanic whites and thus try to control the cultural and demographic influence of that minority in the country.

    But this classification makes Mexicans, Colombians, Guatemalans, etc. living in the United States feel culturally and racially united so that even though they integrate they will always try to maintain their language, religion and customs. Many think that they are recovering and repopulating states that were always Spanish (Texas, Florida, Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, California, etc.) and when they have enough demographic and economic strength, they will undoubtedly end up imposing their policies against “white” officialism.

    Americans should understand that the oldest city in the United States is St. Augustine (Florida, founded by the Spanish Governor of the State) and that the oldest State capital is Santa Fe (New Mexico). The official history of the Founding Fathers and the colonization of the West only serves a part of the population that identifies with those values. The American Indians and their Mexican cousins etc. will try to impose theirs at least in those states where they get a majority.

    In a few decades, whites will end up as minorities in all western countries because we are not able to control illegal immigration, and interracial confrontations will become more frequent.
    You're right about everything except the classification of "Hispanic whites". "White" Hispanics largely of Cuban origin demanded the classification. I sometimes think there is more racism within the Hispanic community than without it. The Cubans who fled Castro had no idea they had a minority of Black and Amerindian ancestry, and a lot of them weren't very happy about it. The same is true of the descendants of the settlers of New Mexico etc. A U.S. Senator from there took a dna test on a public tv program and when asked what she expected it to show she said: Spanish. She was stunned to see she was almost 30% Amerindian. This is someone whose community demanded that "white" Hispanic population label.

    It's not been the government demanding these labels, not since the 1960s at the latest; it's the minorities. Sometimes it's to show their identity as "white", something that Middle Easterners went to court to achieve in the early 20th century, for example, and sometimes it's so that they can qualify for all the governmental programs aimed at minorities which were passed after the 1960s in a blizzard of beneficial legislation . One of our Presidential candidates, for example, claimed American Indian status to get preferential acceptance into college and to get a job as a Professor (to meet quotas for minority representation).

    One reason blacks and "non-white" Hispanics want those identity labels is because they can use the census figures to demand reconfiguration of voting districts and thereby guarantee minority members in legislatures. It's also, as I said, to get into college independent of good SAT scores, to get jobs for which there is a quota, to get favorable loans for business start ups and buying a house etc.

    These things are much more complicated than they might seem to outsiders.

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