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Thread: "WOKE" America

  1. #151
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    The Founding Fathers lived by the norms of their time, many of them were Visionaries, though Pragmatics, … they could not afford to lose the support of some of the Colonies by enforcing all of the inspiring passages of the Declaration of Independence, … changes of the norms had to wait for future times (it took a Civil War and one and half million dead and later Civil Right movements).

    Norms change, … people are products of their time, we of our time, … your Grandparents and their Parents probably had views that would be viewed as extreme today, but were the norm at the time.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    We'll have very soon the DNA result of Columbus.


    I've already opened a thread about it.


    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...opher-Columbus
    It doesn't matter one whit to me what he turns out to be; the principle is the same.

    As for the dangers of "Wokedom", I would suggest people pay a visit to Portland to see it in action. My cousin made the mistake of her life choosing to practice there. Not that I didn't tell her it was a huge mistake and she shouldn't do it. The handwriting was on the wall years ago.

    The children of immigrants fought for years to be judged on merit, not on our last names or religion or family background or incomeand this is where we end up? Stuyvesant High School should be closed, which taught the bright kids of poor New York families for years, because the vast majority of the students are of White and East Asian descent, and the majority, btw, of East Asian descent? The son or daughter of a struggling Korean fruit and vegetable shop owner isn't a minority for these purposes, of course.

    For crying out loud, I had to take an entrance exam to get into my high school decades ago and then it was used to create tracked classes; it worked extremely well. Students who could learn quickly did so, those who couldn't learn as quickly had the time and attention they needed. Not everyone is cut out to go to Harvard. We need bus drivers, and hair cutters, and mechanics, and plumbers and electricians as well as lawyers and doctors and engineers. That's how it works all over Europe, but in the U.S. we're going to insist that every fourteen year old can handle high level math and science? Since when, no matter the race or ethnicity?

    What will that do to society, but also what will that do to the students, and not just the really bright ones? Do these adults think the students don't know who can do the work and who can't? They know you're lying to them. Why torture kids who can barely master simple math with trigonometry or calculus? Or are we not going to need engineers any more, or scientists of any sort, so we just won't teach those subjects at all? Or maybe we'll teach them, but so slowly that the talented students will just tune out and not pay attention at all.

    Don't the people pushing this not see that the only children who won't be stimulated in school and learn these subjects at the rate they should are the children of the poor? The rich will pay for tutors for their children.

    It just proves that when people are brainwashed into an ideology they lose the ability to see reality and use any semblance of common sense.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

  3. #153
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    @Torzio you made the WOKE arguments against Jefferson, as if it’s the only thing he ever did. … In a sense Jefferson is literally Our Founding Father (y T)

    … you should see the Library, and the Pantheon like Jefferson Memorial, his Statue at the center is huge, surrounded by massive marble engraving of the Declaration of Independence, … You too would feel Proud, I think :)


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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    @Torzio you made the WOKE arguments against Jefferson, as if it’s the only thing he ever did. … In a sense Jefferson is literally Our Founding Father (y T)

    … you should see the Library, and the Pantheon like Jefferson Memorial, his Statue at the center is huge, surrounded by massive marble engraving of the Declaration of Independence, … You too would feel Proud, I think :)


    what are you talking about

    I am only interested on when he released his 52 slaves as he could not release his wife 135 slaves .............hemmings is part of his wife slave group................I thought after her death ( martha ) he would have done something different........maybe he could not , maybe her will stated otherwise

    There was an act in some year, where the will could be contested .....I cannot recall when that year was
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    We all come from places where discrimination / slavery was practiced at one time or another, … Focus your indignation on your place of origin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    what are you talking about
    I am only interested on when he released his 52 slaves as he could not release his wife 135 slaves .............hemmings is part of his wife slave group................I thought after her death ( martha ) he would have done something different........maybe he could not , maybe her will stated otherwise
    There was an act in some year, where the will could be contested .....I cannot recall when that year was
    You didn't put it in context, … that’s the impression I got.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    We all come from places where discrimination / slavery was practiced at one time or another, … Focus your indignation on your place of origin.
    I have long insisted that intellectual pursuits can only be accomplished when there is leisure and wealth. If you are working from dusk till dawn, there is little time to think great thoughts. If it was not for slavery many if not all of the accomplishments of Ancient Greece and Rome would not have been possible without slavery. It's not wokeness to accept that fact. Of course leisure can lead to other things like drunkness so I am happy that intellectual and artistic pursuits were not elbowed aside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    You didn't put it in context, … that’s the impression I got.
    I didn't want to go into the West-African slave traders in great detail.............where White trade bought black slaves from Black tribes from mostly the kingdoms of modern Nigeria and the Congo these black slaves where results of their ongoing tribal wars which began centuries before white men set foot in Africa.
    .
    Nigeria and the Congo supplied the most of the african slaves and it cost white slave traders a lot of money ................while places further west , ie Senegal had only 2 slave ships in 80 years
    The details of these books/records from Spanish and English slave traders is extensive and still being reviewed today...............the details are even down to numbers of beasts of burden bought from these African tribes and shipped across the Atlantic Ocean.
    Surprising is the Kingdoms of Nigeria and Congo is the main source , that is the bulk of caribeean and american slaves come from
    Arabs controlled the east-african slave trade from Zanzibar and Tanzania
    Berbers controlled the white slave trade from North Africa
    and others
    Last edited by torzio; 17-10-21 at 03:28.

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    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    I didn't want to go into the West-African slave trade in great detail.............where White trade bought black slaves from Black tribes from mostly the kingdoms of modern Nigeria and the Congo these black slaves where results of their ongoing tribal wars which began centuries before white men set foot in Africa.
    .
    Nigeria and the Congo supplied the most of the african slaves and it cost white slave traders a lot of money ................while places further west , ie Senegal had only 2 slave ships in 80 years
    The details of these books/records from Spanish and English slave traders is extensive and still being reviewed today...............the details are even down to numbers of beasts of burden bought from these African tribes and shipped across the Atlantic Ocean.
    Surprising is the Kingdoms of Nigeria and Congo is the main source , that is the bulk of caribeean and american slaves come from
    Arabs controlled the east-african slave trade from Zanzibar and Tanzania
    Berbers controlled the white slave trade from North Africa
    and others

    BTW......any slaves which where not bought by white slave traders where usually killed by their captors the Nigerian or Conganese "owners' as they where a burden on their society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    I have long insisted that intellectual pursuits can only be accomplished when there is leisure and wealth. If you are working from dusk till dawn, there is little time to think great thoughts. If it was not for slavery many if not all of the accomplishments of Ancient Greece and Rome would not have been possible without slavery. It's not wokeness to accept that fact. Of course leisure can lead to other things like drunkness so I am happy that intellectual and artistic pursuits were not elbowed aside.
    One could say, if it wasn't for all of those lumberjacks cutting down trees, there never would have been paper to write the next great literary work. Nobody thinks in those terms, but when it comes to slavery, they only say that, because it makes them feel virtuous for emulating the compassion of the Hollywood-underdog narrative. In reality, slaves were interchangeable and insignificant in society. If it wasn't for those soldiers who imposed the will of the elite, nothing would have been done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    One could say, if it wasn't for all of those lumberjacks cutting down trees, there never would have been paper to write the next great literary work. Nobody thinks in those terms, but when it comes to slavery, they only say that, because it makes them feel virtuous for emulating the compassion of the Hollywood-underdog narrative. In reality, slaves were interchangeable and insignificant in society. If it wasn't for those soldiers who imposed the will of the elite, nothing would have been done.
    Nobody gives a crap about the wage-slaves/defacto slaves working two or three jobs today, to keep the lights on. Or the hundreds of millions of sweat-shop workers that crafted the clothes we wear, or the devices we use. This beatification of the ancient slaves, and what not, is just patting people on the head, while they keep getting screwed to the core.

    Big corporations have consumed the left-wing narrative; they have neutralized it, and took it out of the hands of radicals. Amazon, Google, Apple, Big Media; they are the King-makers for the left-wing, and they put their corporate-friendly candidate in power, while they pay lip-service to the masses.

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Imagine after spending years paying off a mortgage on your house, you turn around and tell your family that you owe everything that you accomplished to the contractor, mason, painters, etc. who physically built it up. Nobody thinks like that.

    Mind you, I come from a working-class background. Both of my parents went to work, and my father worked two jobs. They didn't think in these terms either, they always taught me to get an education so I wouldn't have to work with my hands, and break my back. Because there is no glory, and virtue in being a donkey!

    Growing up, I noticed a lot of other ethnic groups didn't really have this mentality, these people are stagnant, or going backwards. Italians-Americans always push for their children to get a good education, and good paying jobs. That's is why Italian-Americans went from poor immigrants from the backward-south to wealthy Americans:

    Detailed ancestry[edit]

    Rank Group Income (US$)
    1 Indian Americans 135,809
    2 Taiwanese Americans 102,405
    3 Australian Americans 100,856
    4 Filipino Americans 100,273
    5 South African Americans 98,212
    6 Indonesian Americans 93,501
    7 Macedonian Americans 87,803
    8 Pakistani Americans 87,509
    9 Iranian Americans 87,288
    10 Lebanese Americans 87,099
    11 Austrian Americans 86,499
    12 Russian Americans 85,989
    13 Turkish Americans 85,812
    14 Chinese Americans 85,424
    15 Japanese Americans 85,007
    16 Swiss Americans 82,974
    17 Slovene Americans 82,728
    18 Italian Americans 82,106
    19 Greek Americans 82,036
    20 Israeli Americans 81,901
    21 Romanian Americans 81,878
    22 Ukrainian Americans 81,603
    23 Serbian Americans 81,452
    24 Croatian Americans 80,683
    25 Slovak Americans 80,388
    26 Swedish Americans 80,228
    27 Czech Americans 80,142
    28 Bulgarian Americans 80,626
    29 Norwegian Americans 79,783
    30 Scottish Americans 79,544
    31 Polish Americans 79,503
    32 Danish Americans 79,500
    33 Portuguese Americans 79,050
    34 Belgian Americans 78,355
    35 English Americans 78,078
    36 Welsh Americans 77,949
    37 Hungarian Americans 77,611
    38 Finnish Americans 77,356
    39 Armenian Americans 77,110
    40 Korean Americans 76,674
    41 Canadian Americans 76,665
    42 German Americans 76,036
    43 French Canadian Americans 75,949
    44 Irish Americans 75,583
    45 Syrian Americans 74,047
    46 Hmong Americans 73,373
    47 Vietnamese Americans 72,161
    48 Albanian Americans 72,043
    49 Cambodian Americans 72,038
    50 Spanish Americans 71,903
    51 French Americans 71,407
    52 Dutch Americans 70,872
    53 Ghanaian Americans 69,021
    54 Nigerian Americans 68,658
    55 Bangladeshi Americans 67,944
    56 Guyanese Americans 67,772
    57 Tanzanian Americans 67,327
    58 Egyptian Americans 67,187
    59 Palestinian Americans 67,157
    60 Thai Americans 66,763
    61 Laotian Americans 66,117
    62 West Indian Americans 65,258
    63 Samoan Americans 64,941
    64 Barbadian Americans 64,588
    65 Nepalese Americans 63,619
    66 Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac Americans 63,301
    Median American Household Income (63,179)
    67 Trinidadian and Tobagonian Americans 62,120
    68 Jamaican Americans 62,044
    69 Polynesian Americans 61,654
    70 Micronesian Americans 61,309
    71 Kenyan Americans 61,000
    72 American Americans 58,601
    73 Haitian Americans 57,451
    74 Brazilian Americans 56,151
    75 Cuban Americans 56,005
    76 Argentine Americans 55,000
    77 Cajun Americans 52,886
    78 Moroccan Americans 52,436
    79 Peruvian Americans 52,000
    80 Jordanian Americans 51,552
    81 Pennsylvania Dutch 48,955
    82 Ecuadorian Americans 48,600
    83 Colombian Americans 48,000
    84 Cape Verdean Americans 47,281
    85 Burmese Americans 45,903
    86 Afghan Americans 46,838
    87 African Americans 46,073
    88 Bahamian Americans 42,000
    89 Appalachian Americans 38,593
    90 Mexican Americans 38,000
    91 Puerto Rican Americans 36,000
    92 Ethiopian Americans 36,000
    93 Iraqi Americans 32,818
    94 Dominican Americans 32,300
    95 Somali Americans 23,000

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...usehold_income

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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Imagine after spending years paying off a mortgage on your house, you turn around and tell your family that you owe everything that you accomplished to the contractor, mason, painters, etc. who physically built it up. Nobody thinks like that.

    Mind you, I come from a working-class background. Both of my parents went to work, and my father worked two jobs. They didn't think in these terms either, they always taught me to get an education so I wouldn't have to work with my hands, and break my back. Because there is no glory, and virtue in being a donkey!

    Growing up, I noticed a lot of other ethnic groups didn't really have this mentality, these people are stagnant, or going backwards. Italians-Americans always push for their children to get a good education, and good paying jobs. That's is why Italian-Americans went from poor immigrants from the backward-south to wealthy Americans:

    Detailed ancestry[edit]


    Rank Group Income (US$)
    1 Indian Americans 135,809
    2 Taiwanese Americans 102,405
    3 Australian Americans 100,856
    4 Filipino Americans 100,273
    5 South African Americans 98,212
    6 Indonesian Americans 93,501
    7 Macedonian Americans 87,803
    8 Pakistani Americans 87,509
    9 Iranian Americans 87,288
    10 Lebanese Americans 87,099
    11 Austrian Americans 86,499
    12 Russian Americans 85,989
    13 Turkish Americans 85,812
    14 Chinese Americans 85,424
    15 Japanese Americans 85,007
    16 Swiss Americans 82,974
    17 Slovene Americans 82,728
    18 Italian Americans 82,106
    19 Greek Americans 82,036
    20 Israeli Americans 81,901
    21 Romanian Americans 81,878
    22 Ukrainian Americans 81,603
    23 Serbian Americans 81,452
    24 Croatian Americans 80,683
    25 Slovak Americans 80,388
    26 Swedish Americans 80,228
    27 Czech Americans 80,142
    28 Bulgarian Americans 80,626
    29 Norwegian Americans 79,783
    30 Scottish Americans 79,544
    31 Polish Americans 79,503
    32 Danish Americans 79,500
    33 Portuguese Americans 79,050
    34 Belgian Americans 78,355
    35 English Americans 78,078
    36 Welsh Americans 77,949
    37 Hungarian Americans 77,611
    38 Finnish Americans 77,356
    39 Armenian Americans 77,110
    40 Korean Americans 76,674
    41 Canadian Americans 76,665
    42 German Americans 76,036
    43 French Canadian Americans 75,949
    44 Irish Americans 75,583
    45 Syrian Americans 74,047
    46 Hmong Americans 73,373
    47 Vietnamese Americans 72,161
    48 Albanian Americans 72,043
    49 Cambodian Americans 72,038
    50 Spanish Americans 71,903
    51 French Americans 71,407
    52 Dutch Americans 70,872
    53 Ghanaian Americans 69,021
    54 Nigerian Americans 68,658
    55 Bangladeshi Americans 67,944
    56 Guyanese Americans 67,772
    57 Tanzanian Americans 67,327
    58 Egyptian Americans 67,187
    59 Palestinian Americans 67,157
    60 Thai Americans 66,763
    61 Laotian Americans 66,117
    62 West Indian Americans 65,258
    63 Samoan Americans 64,941
    64 Barbadian Americans 64,588
    65 Nepalese Americans 63,619
    66 Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac Americans 63,301
    Median American Household Income (63,179)
    67 Trinidadian and Tobagonian Americans 62,120
    68 Jamaican Americans 62,044
    69 Polynesian Americans 61,654
    70 Micronesian Americans 61,309
    71 Kenyan Americans 61,000
    72 American Americans 58,601
    73 Haitian Americans 57,451
    74 Brazilian Americans 56,151
    75 Cuban Americans 56,005
    76 Argentine Americans 55,000
    77 Cajun Americans 52,886
    78 Moroccan Americans 52,436
    79 Peruvian Americans 52,000
    80 Jordanian Americans 51,552
    81 Pennsylvania Dutch 48,955
    82 Ecuadorian Americans 48,600
    83 Colombian Americans 48,000
    84 Cape Verdean Americans 47,281
    85 Burmese Americans 45,903
    86 Afghan Americans 46,838
    87 African Americans 46,073
    88 Bahamian Americans 42,000
    89 Appalachian Americans 38,593
    90 Mexican Americans 38,000
    91 Puerto Rican Americans 36,000
    92 Ethiopian Americans 36,000
    93 Iraqi Americans 32,818
    94 Dominican Americans 32,300
    95 Somali Americans 23,000

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...usehold_income
    Important to understand too that a lot of the Americans at the top of the list came to this country with degrees in computer science, technology and engineering or medicine (This is particularly true of the small population of Indian Americans, some of whom got their degrees here), or they came as family groups with money to invest, some just to get a bigger return, and some because they're fleeing situations in their country, like South African Americans or Chinese from Hong Kong or Indians from Indonesia. They are examples of capitalism in action. Where I am virtually every motel and convenience store, including all the 7-11 stores, are owned by Indian or Pakistani Americans. I have respect for them for learning how to make it, and because they seem to work 12-14 hours a day. (The Chinese and Koreans are a mixed bag. Some of the Chinese are virtually indentured servants perpetually paying off the gang lords who got them here illegally, and a lot of the Koreans who come only seem to have enough capital to open the smallest stores.)

    Still, it's all very different from arriving here illiterate or semi-literate and with not a dime in your pocket, as was the case for most Italian Americans who arrived with the big wave of immigration in the early 20th century, and pushing your kids up the socio-economic ladder in this way. The Greeks and Turks are self evident too; they've been traders and small business owners forever. Is there a diner near you "not" owned by a Greek family, a family where everybody works long hours?)

    Then they see big government taking so much of their hard earned money and giving it away on failed programs, and they get angry. Who could blame them? I get angry sometimes too. We played by all the rules. Study hours a day while your father works twelve hours a day, go to a good university, then get an advanced degree, all on academic scholarships, work twelve hours a day yourself, save money for a down payment on a house before you have children, continue working long hours to pay that mortgage and support your family, only have two children because you don't have the energy for a demanding job and a big family, pay your taxes dutifully, save money anyway and invest it, and pay tax on those earnings, then realize the money you leave your children will also be taxed, so you try to shelter some of it, and now the government says you soon won't be able to do that either. What's the point of saving then? There's something wrong with wanting to help your children have it a little easier than you did? It's infuriating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Important to understand too that a lot of the Americans at the top of the list came to this country with degrees in computer science, technology and engineering or medicine (This is particularly true of the small population of Indian Americans, some of whom got their degrees here), or they came as family groups with money to invest, some just to get a bigger return, and some because they're fleeing situations in their country, like South African Americans or Chinese from Hong Kong or Indians from Indonesia. They are examples of capitalism in action. Where I am virtually every motel and convenience store, including all the 7-11 stores, are owned by Indian or Pakistani Americans. I have respect for them for learning how to make it, and because they seem to work 12-14 hours a day. (The Chinese and Koreans are a mixed bag. Some of the Chinese are virtually indentured servants perpetually paying off the gang lords who got them here illegally, and a lot of the Koreans who come only seem to have enough capital to open the smallest stores.)

    Still, it's all very different from arriving here illiterate or semi-literate and with not a dime in your pocket, as was the case for most Italian Americans who arrived with the big wave of immigration in the early 20th century, and pushing your kids up the socio-economic ladder in this way. The Greeks and Turks are self evident too; they've been traders and small business owners forever. Is there a diner near you "not" owned by a Greek family, a family where everybody works long hours?)

    Then they see big government taking so much of their hard earned money and giving it away on failed programs, and they get angry. Who could blame them? I get angry sometimes too. We played by all the rules. Study hours a day while your father works twelve hours a day, go to a good university, then get an advanced degree, all on academic scholarships, work twelve hours a day yourself, save money for a down payment on a house before you have children, continue working long hours to pay that mortgage and support your family, only have two children because you don't have the energy for a demanding job and a big family, pay your taxes dutifully, save money anyway and invest it, and pay tax on those earnings, then realize the money you leave your children will also be taxed, so you try to shelter some of it, and now the government says you soon won't be able to do that either. What's the point of saving then? There's something wrong with wanting to help your children have it a little easier than you did? It's infuriating.
    Yes exactly that is also the case for Iraqi Americans who are nearly at the bottom at list, most of them came as war refugees in last few decades.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Imagine after spending years paying off a mortgage on your house, you turn around and tell your family that you owe everything that you accomplished to the contractor, mason, painters, etc. who physically built it up. Nobody thinks like that.

    Mind you, I come from a working-class background. Both of my parents went to work, and my father worked two jobs. They didn't think in these terms either, they always taught me to get an education so I wouldn't have to work with my hands, and break my back. Because there is no glory, and virtue in being a donkey!

    Growing up, I noticed a lot of other ethnic groups didn't really have this mentality, these people are stagnant, or going backwards. Italians-Americans always push for their children to get a good education, and good paying jobs. That's is why Italian-Americans went from poor immigrants from the backward-south to wealthy Americans:

    Detailed ancestry[edit]


    Rank Group Income (US$)
    1 Indian Americans 135,809
    2 Taiwanese Americans 102,405
    3 Australian Americans 100,856
    4 Filipino Americans 100,273
    5 South African Americans 98,212
    6 Indonesian Americans 93,501
    7 Macedonian Americans 87,803
    8 Pakistani Americans 87,509
    9 Iranian Americans 87,288
    10 Lebanese Americans 87,099
    11 Austrian Americans 86,499
    12 Russian Americans 85,989
    13 Turkish Americans 85,812
    14 Chinese Americans 85,424
    15 Japanese Americans 85,007
    16 Swiss Americans 82,974
    17 Slovene Americans 82,728
    18 Italian Americans 82,106
    19 Greek Americans 82,036
    20 Israeli Americans 81,901
    21 Romanian Americans 81,878
    22 Ukrainian Americans 81,603
    23 Serbian Americans 81,452
    24 Croatian Americans 80,683
    25 Slovak Americans 80,388
    26 Swedish Americans 80,228
    27 Czech Americans 80,142
    28 Bulgarian Americans 80,626
    29 Norwegian Americans 79,783
    30 Scottish Americans 79,544
    31 Polish Americans 79,503
    32 Danish Americans 79,500
    33 Portuguese Americans 79,050
    34 Belgian Americans 78,355
    35 English Americans 78,078
    36 Welsh Americans 77,949
    37 Hungarian Americans 77,611
    38 Finnish Americans 77,356
    39 Armenian Americans 77,110
    40 Korean Americans 76,674
    41 Canadian Americans 76,665
    42 German Americans 76,036
    43 French Canadian Americans 75,949
    44 Irish Americans 75,583
    45 Syrian Americans 74,047
    46 Hmong Americans 73,373
    47 Vietnamese Americans 72,161
    48 Albanian Americans 72,043
    49 Cambodian Americans 72,038
    50 Spanish Americans 71,903
    51 French Americans 71,407
    52 Dutch Americans 70,872
    53 Ghanaian Americans 69,021
    54 Nigerian Americans 68,658
    55 Bangladeshi Americans 67,944
    56 Guyanese Americans 67,772
    57 Tanzanian Americans 67,327
    58 Egyptian Americans 67,187
    59 Palestinian Americans 67,157
    60 Thai Americans 66,763
    61 Laotian Americans 66,117
    62 West Indian Americans 65,258
    63 Samoan Americans 64,941
    64 Barbadian Americans 64,588
    65 Nepalese Americans 63,619
    66 Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac Americans 63,301
    Median American Household Income (63,179)
    67 Trinidadian and Tobagonian Americans 62,120
    68 Jamaican Americans 62,044
    69 Polynesian Americans 61,654
    70 Micronesian Americans 61,309
    71 Kenyan Americans 61,000
    72 American Americans 58,601
    73 Haitian Americans 57,451
    74 Brazilian Americans 56,151
    75 Cuban Americans 56,005
    76 Argentine Americans 55,000
    77 Cajun Americans 52,886
    78 Moroccan Americans 52,436
    79 Peruvian Americans 52,000
    80 Jordanian Americans 51,552
    81 Pennsylvania Dutch 48,955
    82 Ecuadorian Americans 48,600
    83 Colombian Americans 48,000
    84 Cape Verdean Americans 47,281
    85 Burmese Americans 45,903
    86 Afghan Americans 46,838
    87 African Americans 46,073
    88 Bahamian Americans 42,000
    89 Appalachian Americans 38,593
    90 Mexican Americans 38,000
    91 Puerto Rican Americans 36,000
    92 Ethiopian Americans 36,000
    93 Iraqi Americans 32,818
    94 Dominican Americans 32,300
    95 Somali Americans 23,000

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...usehold_income
    Wow interessting, Iranian Americans rank 9 in the USA. In Germany it is kinda the same, next to Vietnamese Germans, Iranian Germans are among the best integrated communities. Iranians anywhere in the Diaspora are among the most educated and best earning groups. Most left after the 1979 Revolution because of this awful religious goverment.

    Italian Americans are among the Top 20 in the USA which is surprising because Italians started from a very humble situation. What happened here ? From zero to hero ?

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anfänger View Post
    Wow interessting, Iranian Americans rank 9 in the USA. In Germany it is kinda the same, next to Vietnamese Germans, Iranian Germans are among the best integrated communities. Iranians anywhere in the Diaspora are among the most educated and best earning groups. Most left after the 1979 Revolution because of this awful religious goverment.

    Italian Americans are among the Top 20 in the USA which is surprising because Italians started from a very humble situation. What happened here ? From zero to hero ?
    Plus, of the 17 above us, except for the Russian American group which contains a great number of Jews (their religion, often nominal, allowed them to get visas out of the Soviet Union, and there's a huge colony in New York alone), and the Macedonians, Austrians, Swiss, and Slovenes, whom I don't know much about, the rest all came here with money, often a lot of it, and an education.

    And no, it's not mob money, in case it occurs to someone to speculate, because they're a small percentage of Italian-Americans, and more to the point, even if they were a large percentage, "they" don't pay taxes, so their income is impossible to calculate. :) Watch "Goodfellas" in case you haven't already; most realistic depiction of "mob life" I've ever seen. The FBI broke them eventually, of course, but they had to pass a statute which is unconstitutional, imo, the so-called RICO statute in order to do it. All that money then went into semi-legitimate businesses, more white collar crime, where it still is laundered and unreported.

    You can start at 1:50.

    Of course, this was all a romanticized attempt to excuse himself. No one had to go this route to get ahead, and Michael didn't have to either, and their children still got there if not them...heads of corporations, of the New York Stock Exchange, famous doctors and lawyers and prosecutors, mayors of major cities, governors of states, Supreme Court Justices, entertainers, you name it. Only the Presidency has eluded us thus far.

    That's why all those studies showing that America isn't different, that wealthy people always come from wealthy families even here, are completely wrong. Most Italians who came here did get to live the American dream, or at least their children and grandchildren did. It was true for other immigrant groups as well, like Greeks, for example, and the Ashkenazi Jews, who are the greatest success story of all, and they came here as poor as the Italians, although they had the advantage of literacy.

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    I agree that ‘wokism’ lacks a strong scientific foundation. It is mostly theoretical conjecture and its arguments are difficult to test in practice. It has gone quite far beyond philosophical discussion over important issues touching on racial justice, policing, and the manifold dimensions of identity (gender, body shape and ability, age, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, indigenous recognition etc). ‘Social movement activism’ is the catalyst operating the shift from philosophy to political action and this is a construct of US academic circles which over the past few decades have leveraged the works of Foucault (white hetero male power and social control through societal institutions) and Derrida (the power of language to drive behaviour and attitudes and cultural identity) and Marxist feminist critical theory (W.E.B. Du Bois) to create new theoretical paradigms encapsulated in standpoint theory (see Dorothy Smith, Patricia Hills Collins, Sandra Harding et al) and intersectionality (see ‘bell hooks’ and Kathy Davis et al). These theories are driving the political movement and social change you’re worried about.
    The 1960s was a hotbed for anticapitalism, pacifism and feminism. While Foucault and Derrida didn’t have a lasting influence in French intellectual circles, their work was certainly foundational in social movement activism which is powerful in the US.
    You could argue that there’s a lack of diversity in decision-making power structures such company boards and executive leadership, parliaments and governments, finance and media with a skew towards older ‘privileged’ white males. You could argue that aware of this critique, we’re seeing token gestures to compensate for this fact such as firms changing recruitment practices to become more inclusive, phasing out the use of ladies and gentlemen (e.g. British Airways) or Mr and Mrs and ‘unisex toilets’ In Australia the popular brand of cheese called Coon was renamed (to Cheer), in the UK there’s has been a lively discussion about whether it’s impolitic to say that only women have a cervix, and some academics in the UK and US are starting to speak up against how unsafe campuses have become as venues for intelligent inquiry over issues of sex and gender, (rather than gender identity alone!).
    I think democracy stands out because it more than other regimes protects minorities so I don’t have a problem with social change that strives for better treatment of and respect for people who are objectively discriminated against. For example, the word fat doesn’t make people immediately think about the macronutrient which along with protein and carbohydrate must be consumed for good health. Instead they think about the social meaning of it – i.e. an unsightly person with poor health and mobility, who has no self-control or care for themselves and who will probably be unreliable at work and elsewhere in life due to those perverse behaviours. This has weaponised the word fat to demean people and fat people are so often demeaned in public which I find totally appalling. But medical professionals are having trouble doing their job which is to address the health outcomes of obesity without appearing to discriminate and demean the obese. Same with race – if you identify a person of colour, you discriminate against their race but if you don’t acknowledge it, you refuse to acknowledge their difference and how it has been used to disadvantage them. Social movement activism raises these double binds all the time and you never get a clear narrative about what conduct, which policies and what behaviours are actually neutral on discrimination and disadvantage. It’s a movement of permanent outrage.




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    IMO, American capitalism is closer to the state of nature in fundamental ways than centralized planning approaches. Thus, it allows groups to employ and exploit their natural instincts for survival.

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    Charlemagne da God isn't being realistic here. Even Bill Maher and his guest, who are liberals think his demands are ridiculous:


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Charlemagne da God isn't being realistic here. Even Bill Maher and his guest, who are liberals think his demands are ridiculous:

    I also get annoyed when activists minimize the contributions of all of the other people in this country. What?! All of the immigrants that came to this country, (Dare I say even the ones from Europe) didn't have a hand in building this country? The Chinese didn't build the railroads? All of the beautiful façades on brownstone buildings in the North East were made by Italian-Immigrants. I can go on and on. No wonder it isn't a popular policy to endeavor for.

    Each immigrant group possesses its own strategies for survival and success. For Italians, theirs rested upon two pillars: work and family. Italian immigrants helped provide the labor for American factories and mines and helped build roads, dams, tunnels, and other infrastructure. Their work provided them a small economic foothold in American society and allowed them to provide for their families, which stood at the core of Italian-American life.

    What Sets Italian Americans Off From Other Immigrants? | The National Endowment for the Humanities (neh.gov)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I also get annoyed when activists minimize the contributions of all of the other people in this country. What?! All of the immigrants that came to this country, (Dare I say even the ones from Europe) didn't have a hand in building this country? The Chinese didn't build the railroads? All of the beautiful façades on brownstone buildings in the North East were made by Italian-Immigrants. I can go on and on. No wonder it isn't a popular policy to endeavor for.
    These people didn't help build America? As well as the people before them?:

    In this study, we measure the contribution of immigrants and their descendents to the growth and industrial transformation of the American workforce in the age of mass immigration from 1880 to 1920. The size and selectivity of the immigrant community, as well as their disproportionate residence in large cities, meant they were the mainstay of the American industrial workforce. Immigrants and their children comprised over half of manufacturing workers in 1920, and if the third generation (the grandchildren of immigrants) are included, then more than two-thirds of workers in the manufacturing sector were of recent immigrant stock. Although higher wages and better working conditions might have encouraged more long-resident native-born workers to the industrial economy, the scale and pace of the American industrial revolution might well have slowed. The closing of the door to mass immigration in the 1920s did lead to increased recruitment of native born workers, particularly from the South, to northern industrial cities in the middle decades of the 20th century.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2760060/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    These people didn't help build America? As well as the people before them?:

    In this study, we measure the contribution of immigrants and their descendents to the growth and industrial transformation of the American workforce in the age of mass immigration from 1880 to 1920. The size and selectivity of the immigrant community, as well as their disproportionate residence in large cities, meant they were the mainstay of the American industrial workforce. Immigrants and their children comprised over half of manufacturing workers in 1920, and if the third generation (the grandchildren of immigrants) are included, then more than two-thirds of workers in the manufacturing sector were of recent immigrant stock. Although higher wages and better working conditions might have encouraged more long-resident native-born workers to the industrial economy, the scale and pace of the American industrial revolution might well have slowed. The closing of the door to mass immigration in the 1920s did lead to increased recruitment of native born workers, particularly from the South, to northern industrial cities in the middle decades of the 20th century.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2760060/
    The Industrial Era


    This era is also known as the "great wave" of immigration. This is due to the enormous growth in immigration, which resulted in approximately 23 million immigrants settling in the United States. The majority of immigrants were from Southern and Eastern Europe, as well as Scandinavia. However, large numbers of immigrants were non-European. While pale in comparison to immigration from Europe, approximately one million immigrants arrived from Japan, Turkey, and Mexico. In addition, non-Protestant religious groups, including Catholics and Jews immigrated to the United States during this time period. Immigration during the industrial era was not merely a result of favorable policies enacted by the United States government, but also of political unrest, discrimination, and fragile economies in the immigrants' home countries.


    https://guides.ll.georgetown.edu/c.p...2919&p=4171684

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    As always, you completely miss my point, deliberately perhaps. I didn't say the Europeans were noble; that they weren't was a given. I also specifically added that "There are just people, who have always acted just like people.

    Try to get over your bias against me and give me my due when warranted, as I do with you.
    just wanted to put emphasis on the fact that columbus was not a good man and that what happened back then can certainly be seen as something bad.


    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    The only difference is that as an Italian citizen I have no power to compel the Germans to tear those statues down, even though we're all supposed to be Europeans living in one union, yes? Hell, as an Italian citizen I didn't even get the chance to force Germany to surrender the monsters in both the Wehrmacht and the SS to our justice system for their atrocities in Italy. Instead, they died of old age in their beds. I think that's a lot more important than some freaking statues.
    is that really the only difference? it really doesn't matter for you if those statues were standing in Italy because they mean something for the germanic inhabitants of Italy or if they stand in germany? also the HRE is not really tied to cultural/ethnic replacement in Italy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Plus, Italians have a tendency to give even their conquerors their due, a trait I don't find altogether admirable; lots of statues of Frederick II around. They're quite fond of him in Foggia where he lived for much of his life and which he loved. Not so much in the cities of the north which grew out of the communes.
    that's still not the same imo. those statues were built by Italians themselves long after the time of the HRE.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    My point is that history is history. I object to anyone trying to obliterate signs of the past because they dislike it. It's like the Taliban toppling statues of the Buddha. I'll grant you I can see why people wouldn't want a statue of Jefferson Davis around, just as I wouldn't want one of Mussolini in Italy, although I don't mean to draw a comparison between the two as the scale is completely different. However, there's a point where you have to draw the line. Should all statues of the Kings of Savoy and their spouses be torn down because the last one was a weakling and a coward? Should the statues of all the kings and queens of the past be torn down because now we're a democracy?

    To pretend that all the founding fathers had slaves or were even in favor of slavery is a lie, but it's a lie taught as part of this curriculum. The idiots writing that curriculum are either deliberately lying or they slept through their American history courses because they were stoned.
    if it is a question of where you draw the line, then there certainly is room for discussion. do those statues of Columbus have particular historical value like for example the statues of Buddha that the Taliban destroyed? or can those statues also simply be removed from public places and maybe be placed somewhere else?

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    The problem of slavery in America is that they should have made these African slaves indentured servants ( as in the past )..............the same as the white "slaves" they had previously working for them................the only reason the slave traders went to buy black slaves from Africa was due to these indendured servants finalising their 7 years of free service to their owners........and the white indentured service drying up out of Europe/or not enough of them.

    BTW......early on , white and black indentured servants lived in the same "houses" together ..................there was mixing of race already happening from colonial times

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    2 members found this post helpful.


    There is an analysis done that purports that there are high amounts of anti-black tweets coming form theses cities. However, below I have provided the demographic breakdown of the cities. The top five are minority non-Hispanic white, and four of the five are majority Black cities. I think the study didn't take into account that some variations of the n-word are used by African-American youths as a term of endearment. Typical willfully-ignorant study which only serves to stir the pot.

    https://www.baltimoresun.com/feature...310-story.html

    Baltimore, MD:
    Race and Hispanic Origin
    White alone, percent 30.5%
    Black or African American alone, percent(a) 62.4%
    American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a) 0.3%
    Asian alone, percent(a) 2.6%
    Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a) 0.0%
    Two or More Races, percent 2.5%
    Hispanic or Latino, percent(b) 5.3%
    White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent 27.5%

    Atlanta, GA:
    Race and Hispanic Origin
    White alone, percent 40.9%
    Black or African American alone, percent(a) 51.0%
    American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a) 0.3%
    Asian alone, percent(a) 4.4%
    Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a) 0.0%
    Two or More Races, percent 2.4%
    Hispanic or Latino, percent(b) 4.3%
    White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent 38.3%

    New Orleans, LA:
    Race and Hispanic Origin
    White alone, percent 33.9%
    Black or African American alone, percent(a) 59.5%
    American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a) 0.2%
    Asian alone, percent(a) 2.9%
    Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a) 0.0%
    Two or More Races, percent 1.9%
    Hispanic or Latino, percent(b) 5.5%
    White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent 30.7%

    Newark, NJ:
    Race and Hispanic Origin
    White alone, percent 28.6%
    Black or African American alone, percent(a) 50.1%
    American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a) 0.3%
    Asian alone, percent(a) 1.9%
    Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a) 0.0%
    Two or More Races, percent 2.4%
    Hispanic or Latino, percent(b) 36.3%
    White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent 11.0%

    Arlington, TX:

    Race and Hispanic Origin
    White alone, percent 59.9%
    Black or African American alone, percent(a) 22.7%
    American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a) 0.5%
    Asian alone, percent(a) 6.6%
    Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a) 0.2%
    Two or More Races, percent 3.2%
    Hispanic or Latino, percent(b) 29.6%
    White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent 38.6%

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