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  1. #1
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    confused

    My son took the 23 and me test, the results came back very very confusing

    His Haplogroup came back E1B1A with EU 175. But what was odd it said it was with out some markers. When I researched that that had only been discovered in one other person in a study in Africa

    However his autosomal DNA was 99.1 Northern European, with .9 unidentifiable the breakdown was just as we expected from genological research 50 percent German from the Rhineland, 11 percent Scandinavian from Copenhagen and the rest from the British isles.

    How is this at all possible?

    Our family immigrated from Germany (fathers line) 150 years ago. They lived in isolated German communities with no possible chance of interacting with a person from that Haplogroup, further If they have it would have shown up in the DNA tests he did, and nearly all my family did (he is the only one to take the 23 and me, everyone else used ancestry) all the autosomal results matched each other. Further all the pictures of my grandparents are blue eyed blond headed northern Germans (as am I and my kids)

    So we know there was no chance of the Haplogroup being acquired in the United States. ( well the DNA test would have picked it up in the last 200 years and it states 0.0 percent African)

    Which brings us to it me to Germany, once again they came from rural communities that were very homogenous almost interbreed to say the least, the same families immigrated to the US together as well.

    I have read where this happened to a few other families of German and Austrian descent and there were isolated cases of this in Germany and Austria.

    So I have come to a few hypothesis

    1. The result was simply wrong, should of been E1B1B- they just made a mistake or the chip read it wrong, that is the most likely case. you get what you pay for

    2. It is an ancient artifact, since the tribes with the E1B1 ( a and b) evoloved together this dude headed north with his brothers instead of west with his other kin) ended up in Europe. Also 1% of Scots supposedly carry this marker as well. This guy (his descendants could have cut a sawth all through Europe in pre history

    3. During the Roman occupation of the Rhineland a soldier or slave raped one of my ancestors or she was a prostitute .

    4. The Theban Legion? They were in Germany, Switzerland and Austria in the 200's R1B1A is present in thebes put not the sub clade (that we know of)

    5. The Ubii- they mixed heavily with the Romans and they were the tribe in the area of my ancestors.

    If not one (which a think it is) 2-5 could be possibilities because we know it has to be from a long time back because the other tests would have picked it up in the last 200-300 years.

    Any advice or ideas would be appreciated

  2. #2
    Regular Member New Englander's Avatar
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    Id say either #1 or #2. Either it was a mistake or its a displaced African that ended up as an Arab or Roman slave and the line found its way to Germany.

  3. #3
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    150 years ago is a long time and the German community in the US is more heterozygous than people think. I think people far too often make the mistake in believing their DNA results will correspond with the written record.

    The Rhineland German immigration happened earlier (PA/OH/NY) than those that settled the upper Midwestern states and there’s likely been a lot more admixture than thought.

  4. #4
    Regular Member New Englander's Avatar
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I dont think it could be recent if its a direct African ancestor if he is coming at 99% N. European. He might have ties with a older colonial ancestor in the last 150 years (English or Dutch) that was mixed himself before the German arrivals.

  5. #5
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    My family settled in Central Missouri in 1838. In very isolated communities with the same people they immigrated with (the joke is we were inbreed in Germany and inbred here). My cousin just get his Ancestry results back. 99% Northwestern European as did my Paternal Uncle (dad brother) 99% Northwest European. (German, Dane, English 0.0% African. (still waiting for mine) Plus we have family Paternal Genealogy back to the 1560's. So why the German community may have been more hetrogenous outside of where we live, it's not the case here, people up to 5o years ago didn't even marry outside of there hometown. Luckily my Dad my Mom (Scot descent in college)

    We have phots going back of the whole family going back to the civil war there not even Black German- they are blond almost platinum blond as my kids are, so any admixture would have to be pre immigration, but even then there would have been darker features one would think.

    I put my sons raw data in true ancestry. It came back as Northern German is his closet match (once again 0% African) and predicted his Hapolgroup as R1B. Gave us some supposed ancient relations like Clan Seaton and Merovingians (which we know were are related to through my Mom).

    His ancient mix was:

    Viking Danish + Visigoth (4.55)
    Viking Danish + Frank (4.555)
    Saxon + Frank (5.154)
    Visigoth + Saxon (5.17)
    Celt + Frank (5.552)
    Frank (6.052)
    Saxon (7.014)
    Viking Danish (7.327)
    Visigoth (7.466)
    Celt (9.232)

    modern was:

    1. North_German (6.913)
    2. Welsh (6.973)
    3. South_Dutch (7.739)
    4. German_Central (7.957)
    5. Southwest_English (8.101)
    6. North_Dutch (8.147)
    7. Flemish (8.353)
    8. West_German (8.561)

    (My wife is Welsh, once again all this makes sense)

    But when It broke down his genetic match to ancient tribes (deep dive) it showed 1% from the Ballari tribe in Corsica. I never heard of them, supposedly they were mercenary's in the Carthaginian Army from Libya (the Turareng carry the EU 175 marker, they are from Libya) and Iberia that settled in Corsica (pre Roman). Later Rome took Corsica from Carthage, it also showed 2% Illyrian where there is known E1B1A (some pockets in Croatia)-- could that be the missing link?

    Heck, I even more confused, but also intrigued - I still think it was read wrong, but I can see other possibilities.

  6. #6
    Regular Member kingjohn's Avatar
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    If you have paternal geneology back to 1560
    Than it is probably the last nail in the coffin
    Your e1b1a than must have came from germany...
    How e1b1a made it to germany in the first place
    That is still enigma..
    Personally in my opinion the source could have been roman auxilirie units in germania superior province ( you say direct paternal line rhineland)

    P.s
    You mention corsica they realy do have some
    E1b1a-v38 cases
    In this paper go to results section)
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...l.pone.0200641
    https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y62418/

    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/

  7. #7
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Direct Paternal line is from the west bank of the Rhine between Cologne and Xanten (a small town called Lank)

    Roman Auxiliaries were my thought, Or the Ubii tribe who mixed with the Romans and their capital I believe was Bonn

    BTW Thank you so much-

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Searcher70 View Post
    My son took the 23 and me test, the results came back very very confusing

    His Haplogroup came back E1B1A with EU 175. But what was odd it said it was with out some markers. When I researched that that had only been discovered in one other person in a study in Africa

    However his autosomal DNA was 99.1 Northern European, with .9 unidentifiable the breakdown was just as we expected from genological research 50 percent German from the Rhineland, 11 percent Scandinavian from Copenhagen and the rest from the British isles.

    How is this at all possible?

    Our family immigrated from Germany (fathers line) 150 years ago. They lived in isolated German communities with no possible chance of interacting with a person from that Haplogroup, further If they have it would have shown up in the DNA tests he did, and nearly all my family did (he is the only one to take the 23 and me, everyone else used ancestry) all the autosomal results matched each other. Further all the pictures of my grandparents are blue eyed blond headed northern Germans (as am I and my kids)

    So we know there was no chance of the Haplogroup being acquired in the United States. ( well the DNA test would have picked it up in the last 200 years and it states 0.0 percent African)

    Which brings us to it me to Germany, once again they came from rural communities that were very homogenous almost interbreed to say the least, the same families immigrated to the US together as well.

    I have read where this happened to a few other families of German and Austrian descent and there were isolated cases of this in Germany and Austria.

    So I have come to a few hypothesis

    1. The result was simply wrong, should of been E1B1B- they just made a mistake or the chip read it wrong, that is the most likely case. you get what you pay for

    2. It is an ancient artifact, since the tribes with the E1B1 ( a and b) evoloved together this dude headed north with his brothers instead of west with his other kin) ended up in Europe. Also 1% of Scots supposedly carry this marker as well. This guy (his descendants could have cut a sawth all through Europe in pre history

    3. During the Roman occupation of the Rhineland a soldier or slave raped one of my ancestors or she was a prostitute .

    4. The Theban Legion? They were in Germany, Switzerland and Austria in the 200's R1B1A is present in thebes put not the sub clade (that we know of)

    5. The Ubii- they mixed heavily with the Romans and they were the tribe in the area of my ancestors.

    If not one (which a think it is) 2-5 could be possibilities because we know it has to be from a long time back because the other tests would have picked it up in the last 200-300 years.

    Any advice or ideas would be appreciated
    Take your son's father, and any other direct paternal relatives, download their raw data from Ancestry and upload it to cladefinder.yseq.net. You can also upload your son's 23andMe raw data and see what cladefinder says. If it's a mistake his father and other direct paternal relatives (paternal uncles and their sons, paternal grandfather, etc) would have something completely different.

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