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Thread: Origin of the Basques

  1. #101
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    So... Basques would not be nothing different or strange to the rest of Iberia, they were conservative and remain with their language in a small place (part of Biscaia, Gipuzkoa, part of Araba, Iparralde and part of Navarra), their language would be a part of an important family (at least Aquitanian and Iberic) because they were the same people in genetic terms as them and surely the same as the rest of Iberians of that time, and keep on being almost the same people in genetic terms as the rest of Iberians and southern French... there are some differences between populations because of different small percentages of italian genetics, germanic genetics or berber genetics, but... very in very small percentages. Galicians are high (5%) in berber autosomal, but at the same time is one of the highest in Iberia in germanic autosomal as well... Iberians are extremely boring people about genetics. My brother has been checked as 100% European, 100% Iberian, 100% Galician by 23andme... he received the report and said: "what the hell!! I hoped something interesting, some pepper, but NOTHING!!" hahaha...

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    You might want to take a look at the PCA in the very recent paper discussed in this thread.

    See:
    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...431#post622431


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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaska View Post
    The information is in this doctoral thesis. It refers to inscriptions in the south and west of Iberia and the author qualifies them as “Dolmenic”. These have been made "in situ" and not later to the use, and it is evident, since the three refer to use: "kenkue: only us", to the subjects: "nune: the children", and to the place: "lukote: fertile land" (Tras os Montes). The new writing develops at the end of the second millennium around the city of Tharshish, "the city of the center, next to the river Betis (ibai Thartshish > Baetis>Betis>Guadalquivir)" Híspalis (Sevilla), the Algarve, and Guadiana. The author also refers to the inscriptions of La Espança

    In imitation of the Minoan (Lin-A). the Tartessian are created (1.700-1.350 BC) for the sonic paradig based on the five vowels, drawing them graphically according to the position of the tongue, documented in the dolmens of Tras Os Montes, in a green statite bead with letters (Dolmen-Salamanca) and in Gádor (EL Argar culture)-5 vowels-A, E. I, O, U, occlusive syllabographs: BA, TE, TI, TU, KE, KO, KU-Liquid-N, L, R, S


    UTZI-KO NINE HILOUA BA-KIO-KUE- “We will leave the children in a grave if they stink”

    “SUES NIRBAKE LUKOTE
    “ZUEZ NIR BAKE LUKOTXA” " you are our peace in the fertile land".
    Ok, thanks.

  4. #104
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    Thank you for the report, Angela. Its more of the same... the miracle is Iberians dont born with three eyes or four legs... so much homozygosity... hahaha

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    Quote Originally Posted by Davidtab View Post
    Thank you for the report, Angela. It�s more of the same... the miracle is Iberians don�t born with three eyes or four legs... so much homozygosity... hahaha
    Well, the Spanish Pyrenees dwellers are certainly pretty inbred, but that's natural for mountainous places, islands out of the mainstream etc.

    The results pretty much depend on the genes which were present in the founding population. If there weren't very many deleterious genes to begin with, and, as is the case in Catholic Europe, the church prevents close cousin marriage as much as possible, the results don't have to be all that deleterious. It's not like the Middle East or India where there's generation after generation of close cousin, often first cousin marriage.

    In the Parma Valley, Cavalli Sforza didn't find a high percentage of really serious hereditary disease clusters of the type found in certain mountainous areas of Sardinia, or the Alps, or even among French Canadians. He also didn't find any signs of low IQ. I was happy to tell my Dad that since my mom used to tease him that every other family up there had someone locked up in the attic. :) It's the kind of thing people say about very isolated areas, but as I said, it's not always true. Thank goodness for the Church's consanguinity rules.

    I think the rest of the Iberians aren't all that homozygous. They're safe. :)

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    I found out about all my ancestors since 1800. My mother was born in a house 1.3km far from the one my father was born. All my ancestors since 1800 are 5-6km around except three, one from Central Europe and two from a town in Asturias 190km far from there. As you said, Angela: I found a very few surnames repeated, and I didnt find one same ancestor between both lines since 1800, and the reason has to be the consanguinity rules you are speaking about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johen View Post


    I don’t know, but the Basque language WOULD originate from East:

    “Prehistorically, the Sumerians were not aboriginal to Mesopotamia. Their native hearth is unknown. Speaking an agglutinative tongue showing affinities, on one hand, with the Uralo-Altaic languages (Balto-Finnish, Hungarian, Volgaic, Uralien, Samoyuedic, Turkish, Mongolian, and Eskimo) and, on the other hand, with the Dravidian tounges of India, the Pelasgian of pre-Homeric Greece, Georgian of the Caucasus, and Basque of the Pyrenes, they had arrived apparently c.3500 B.C. to find the river lands already accupied by an advanced Neolithic, farming and cattle-raising population known to science as the Ubaidian (also, Proto-Euphratean), [...].”

    150 years ago, american professor Alexander WincheijL said that Indo European appeared as early as 2,000bc. And Basque language has some similarities to american Indian. “Their language, says Whitney, possesses some affinities with those of the American family”

    So I think that is all related with WSHG who migrated in IVC, and maybe Sumer.

    It's a quite subsidiary question here, almost out of topic, but Pelasgians were rather Meta-Italic people surely linked to Phillistins and their predecessors in today Greece were kind of I-Ean Anatolian (according to toponymy, I think). We may not follow old believings like these affirmations Liguria was not an I-Ean language...

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oF13OyvBYs

    Speaking of the Pyrenees, this is Ziga, my grandmother Lola's village (God willing she will be 101 years old this year). She was my grandfather's first cousin (evidently they married with Papal dispensation), consanguinity in the Basque Country and in all rural areas of Spain was relatively frequent. She is very angry with the Chinese because this is the second year she cannot go to the Sanfermines.

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    This is her favorite song, I hope to accompany her to Pamplona next year.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se9I...rt_radio=1&t=0

  10. #110
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    Ah...Pamplona. I went years ago during a summer break while I was at university. I loved Spain, and the couple of days I spent in Pamplona for the festival were fabulous. Some North European tried to climb up out of the street and this old countrymen sitting next to me pried loose his hands from the fence and dropped him back in. I guess if you're in, you have to be in. He then offered me a swig of wine from his leather flask. I've never forgotten it.

  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaska View Post
    NO, NO , NO, the rest of Iberia has hardly changed, the contribution of North Africans is barely 5% in Extremadura and Galicia, and it is especially curious in the case of Galicia, which was never populated by Muslims and yet is the Spanish region with the highest percentage of North African blood. The rest of the Iberian peninsula is very uniform genetically speaking (certainly much more than the Balkans, Italy or Greece) - We Basques are Iberians from the Iron Age descendants of the first Iberian BBs and the rest of Spaniards are like us, except for a small percentage of Romans and Moors in some regions. Of course, that means that Iberians (and Basques especially who have never spoken an Indo-European language) have never been Indo-European, neither we nor our ancestors R1b.P312. Forget the fairy tales they have been telling us for years. By the way, I have read your comments about Italy, the Etruscans were not Indo-European either, and in spite of the Levantines they were very similar to us, they have nothing to do with Anatolia, Levant etc. etc. .... when you want we discuss it calmly.
    What is your take on this genetic study which claims that Iberians have SSA genetic input at least since the early Bronze Age? According to his paper SSA gene flow into Iberians wasn‘t an occasional individual phenomenon, but an admixture event recognizable at the population level. So, the SSA admixture in Iberians didn‘t occur during the Romans or Islamic period only but was there much longer.

    https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2018.2288

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    @real expert

    What I think is that until proven otherwise, all humans have our origins in Africa and it is evident that Iberia is only 14 kilometers from that continent. Our ancestors have proven to be great navigators, then it is not strange that more cases of African markers appear during the Mesolithic, Neolithic Chalcolithic and Bronze Age all over Europe (Michelsberg's culture-France is full of E1b). In fact there are some doctoral theses published in Spanish that are not known internationally and that have discovered more cases, for example a Mit-L3a in Lourinha (Portugal, dated at 6.820 BC-Mesolithic) and a mit-L2 in the BB site of Tres Montes (Navarra). But in any case, if we add these two cases to those published by Olalde (2) and González-Fortes (1) we have 5 samples of clear African or SSA origin for a total of more than 2,400 prehistoric genomes published in Iberia, that is to say 0.20%, ergo as Olalde said, these African contacts can only be qualified as sporadic until the arrival of the Romans. In fact, what has surprised geneticists (and all spaniards) is the genetic continuity from the Chalcolithic to the arrival of the Romans.If you had known that sample in Portugal, you would have had to say that the SSA admixture in Iberia began in the Mesolithic, but to prove it you would have to prove that these cases are not sporadic contacts but regular migrations.

    Geneticists are very similar to journalists, they love that their papers have repercussions in the public opinion and that is why every time they find an exotic genome they will make of it a great scientific discovery. This is exactly what happened with the African ancestry of a BB in England that has been published in the thesis of K.Dullias or with the Mit L found in a CWC site in Poland. I suppose that when the Phoenician sites of Cadiz are analyzed (1.000-400 BC), more cases will appear. Of course, all those foreigners who were expecting Iberia to be a super African region must be very disappointed. It is also very sad to see geneticists and amateurs with clear political or racial agendas trying to Levantinize, Judaize or Africanize Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Greece or the Balkans. I remember a paper from 2010 that tried to prove that Spaniards had 25% of Jewish blood and that more than 30% of our unipersonal markers were Jewish. Ha Ha Ha Ha

  13. #113
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    The fact remains that all the studies of ancient autosomal dna show that the big spike took place during the late Roman and Muslim Era. It's just a fact, whether people like it or not.

    The extremely low level of North African and SSA dna in the Basques is the result of the isolation which has resulted in their high levels of homozygosity.

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    This was released yesterday on Youtube:

    Basque Origins | DNA, Language, and History

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un1QtE5swEU

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    Basque people are just fascinanting to me.

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