Origin of the Basques

*Ascoli Bronze-Found in Rome, in which the Consul Cneo Pompeyo Estrabón, granted the Roman citizenship to the Turma Salluitana by virtue of the "Lex Iulia de Civitate Latinis et Sociis Danda", as a reward for the conquest of Ascoli in the frame of the Social War (91-88 BC) against the Picentines. This Cavalry Squadron under the command of a Decurion, was formed by the following horsemen (30), most of them Iberians and Basques

1-Salduie, Zaragoza- Sanibelser (son of Adingibas)-Ilurtibas (son of Bilustibas)-Estopeles (son of Ordennas)-Torsinno (son of Austinko)
2-Bagarensis- Kakususin (son of Chadar)
3-Licenses- Son of Sosimilus-Son of Irsecei-Son of Elgaun-Son of Nespaiser
4-Ilerdenses (Ilerda/Lerida)- Q.Otacilius (son of Suisetarten)-Cnaeus Cornelius (son of Nesile), P. Fabius (son of Enasagin)
5-Begensis - Turtumelis (son of Atanscer)-
6-Segienses- (Segia/Ejea de los Caballeros, Zaragoza-Vascones)-Sosinaden and Sosimilo (sons of Sosinase)-Urgidar (son of Luspanar)-Gurtano (son of Biurno)-Elando (son of Enneges)-Agirnes (son of Benabels)-Nalbeaden (son of Agerno)-Arranes (son of Arbiscar)-Umargibas (son of Luspangibas)-
7-Ennegenses (Ennege?-Vascones)-Beles (son of Umarbeles)-Turinus (son of Adimels)-Ordumeles (son of Burdo)
8-Libenses-Bastugites (son of Adimbeles)-Umarillun (son of Tarbantu)-
9-Suconenses-Belennes (son of Albennes)-Atullo (son of Tautindals)-
10-Illuersensis-Balciadin (son of Balcibilos)

The names of the Iberian and Basque horsemen are very similar, although some Iberians from Ilerda are already Romanized (the names of their fathers, however, are indigenous).

Basques-Beles, Umarbeles, Ordumeles, Adimels, Benabels,
Iberians-Adimbeles, Belennes, Albennes

Beltz-Negro-Black
 
So... Basques would not be nothing different or strange to the rest of Iberia, they were conservative and remain with their language in a small place (part of Biscaia, Gipuzkoa, part of Araba, Iparralde and part of Navarra), their language would be a part of an important family (at least Aquitanian and Iberic) because they were the same people in genetic terms as them and surely the same as the rest of Iberians of that time, and keep on being almost the same people in genetic terms as the rest of Iberians and southern French... there are some differences between populations because of different small percentages of italian genetics, germanic genetics or berber genetics, but... very in very small percentages. Galicians are high (5%) in berber autosomal, but at the same time is one of the highest in Iberia in germanic autosomal as well... Iberians are extremely boring people about genetics. My brother has been checked as 100% European, 100% Iberian, 100% Galician by 23andme... he received the report and said: "what the hell!! I hoped something interesting, some pepper, but NOTHING!!" hahaha...
 
The information is in this doctoral thesis. It refers to inscriptions in the south and west of Iberia and the author qualifies them as “Dolmenic”. These have been made "in situ" and not later to the use, and it is evident, since the three refer to use: "kenkue: only us", to the subjects: "nune: the children", and to the place: "lukote: fertile land" (Tras os Montes). The new writing develops at the end of the second millennium around the city of Tharshish, "the city of the center, next to the river Betis (ibai Thartshish > Baetis>Betis>Guadalquivir)" Híspalis (Sevilla), the Algarve, and Guadiana. The author also refers to the inscriptions of La Espança

In imitation of the Minoan (Lin-A). the Tartessian are created (1.700-1.350 BC) for the sonic paradig based on the five vowels, drawing them graphically according to the position of the tongue, documented in the dolmens of Tras Os Montes, in a green statite bead with letters (Dolmen-Salamanca) and in Gádor (EL Argar culture)-5 vowels-A, E. I, O, U, occlusive syllabographs: BA, TE, TI, TU, KE, KO, KU-Liquid-N, L, R, S


UTZI-KO NINE HILOUA BA-KIO-KUE- “We will leave the children in a grave if they stink”

“SUES NIRBAKE LUKOTE
“ZUEZ NIR BAKE LUKOTXA” " you are our peace in the fertile land".

Ok, thanks.
 
Thank you for the report, Angela. It?s more of the same... the miracle is Iberians don?t born with three eyes or four legs... so much homozygosity... hahaha
 
Thank you for the report, Angela. It�s more of the same... the miracle is Iberians don�t born with three eyes or four legs... so much homozygosity... hahaha

Well, the Spanish Pyrenees dwellers are certainly pretty inbred, but that's natural for mountainous places, islands out of the mainstream etc.

The results pretty much depend on the genes which were present in the founding population. If there weren't very many deleterious genes to begin with, and, as is the case in Catholic Europe, the church prevents close cousin marriage as much as possible, the results don't have to be all that deleterious. It's not like the Middle East or India where there's generation after generation of close cousin, often first cousin marriage.

In the Parma Valley, Cavalli Sforza didn't find a high percentage of really serious hereditary disease clusters of the type found in certain mountainous areas of Sardinia, or the Alps, or even among French Canadians. He also didn't find any signs of low IQ. I was happy to tell my Dad that since my mom used to tease him that every other family up there had someone locked up in the attic. :) It's the kind of thing people say about very isolated areas, but as I said, it's not always true. Thank goodness for the Church's consanguinity rules.

I think the rest of the Iberians aren't all that homozygous. They're safe. :)
 
I found out about all my ancestors since 1800. My mother was born in a house 1.3km far from the one my father was born. All my ancestors since 1800 are 5-6km around except three, one from Central Europe and two from a town in Asturias 190km far from there. As you said, Angela: I found a very few surnames repeated, and I didn?t find one same ancestor between both lines since 1800, and the reason has to be the consanguinity rules you are speaking about.
 


I don’t know, but the Basque language WOULD originate from East:

“Prehistorically, the Sumerians were not aboriginal to Mesopotamia. Their native hearth is unknown. Speaking an agglutinative tongue showing affinities, on one hand, with the Uralo-Altaic languages (Balto-Finnish, Hungarian, Volgaic, Uralien, Samoyuedic, Turkish, Mongolian, and Eskimo) and, on the other hand, with the Dravidian tounges of India, the Pelasgian of pre-Homeric Greece, Georgian of the Caucasus, and Basque of the Pyrenes, they had arrived apparently c.3500 B.C. to find the river lands already accupied by an advanced Neolithic, farming and cattle-raising population known to science as the Ubaidian (also, Proto-Euphratean), [...].”

150 years ago, american professor Alexander WincheijL said that Indo European appeared as early as 2,000bc. And Basque language has some similarities to american Indian. “Their language, says Whitney, possesses some affinities with those of the American family”

So I think that is all related with WSHG who migrated in IVC, and maybe Sumer.


It's a quite subsidiary question here, almost out of topic, but Pelasgians were rather Meta-Italic people surely linked to Phillistins and their predecessors in today Greece were kind of I-Ean Anatolian (according to toponymy, I think). We may not follow old believings like these affirmations Liguria was not an I-Ean language...
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oF13OyvBYs

Speaking of the Pyrenees, this is Ziga, my grandmother Lola's village (God willing she will be 101 years old this year). She was my grandfather's first cousin (evidently they married with Papal dispensation), consanguinity in the Basque Country and in all rural areas of Spain was relatively frequent. She is very angry with the Chinese because this is the second year she cannot go to the Sanfermines.
 
Ah...Pamplona. I went years ago during a summer break while I was at university. I loved Spain, and the couple of days I spent in Pamplona for the festival were fabulous. Some North European tried to climb up out of the street and this old countrymen sitting next to me pried loose his hands from the fence and dropped him back in. I guess if you're in, you have to be in. He then offered me a swig of wine from his leather flask. I've never forgotten it.
 
NO, NO , NO, the rest of Iberia has hardly changed, the contribution of North Africans is barely 5% in Extremadura and Galicia, and it is especially curious in the case of Galicia, which was never populated by Muslims and yet is the Spanish region with the highest percentage of North African blood. The rest of the Iberian peninsula is very uniform genetically speaking (certainly much more than the Balkans, Italy or Greece) - We Basques are Iberians from the Iron Age descendants of the first Iberian BBs and the rest of Spaniards are like us, except for a small percentage of Romans and Moors in some regions. Of course, that means that Iberians (and Basques especially who have never spoken an Indo-European language) have never been Indo-European, neither we nor our ancestors R1b.P312. Forget the fairy tales they have been telling us for years. By the way, I have read your comments about Italy, the Etruscans were not Indo-European either, and in spite of the Levantines they were very similar to us, they have nothing to do with Anatolia, Levant etc. etc. .... when you want we discuss it calmly.

What is your take on this genetic study which claims that Iberians have SSA genetic input at least since the early Bronze Age? According to his paper SSA gene flow into Iberians wasn‘t an occasional individual phenomenon, but an admixture event recognizable at the population level. So, the SSA admixture in Iberians didn‘t occur during the Romans or Islamic period only but was there much longer.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2018.2288
 
@real expert

What I think is that until proven otherwise, all humans have our origins in Africa and it is evident that Iberia is only 14 kilometers from that continent. Our ancestors have proven to be great navigators, then it is not strange that more cases of African markers appear during the Mesolithic, Neolithic Chalcolithic and Bronze Age all over Europe (Michelsberg's culture-France is full of E1b). In fact there are some doctoral theses published in Spanish that are not known internationally and that have discovered more cases, for example a Mit-L3a in Lourinha (Portugal, dated at 6.820 BC-Mesolithic) and a mit-L2 in the BB site of Tres Montes (Navarra). But in any case, if we add these two cases to those published by Olalde (2) and González-Fortes (1) we have 5 samples of clear African or SSA origin for a total of more than 2,400 prehistoric genomes published in Iberia, that is to say 0.20%, ergo as Olalde said, these African contacts can only be qualified as sporadic until the arrival of the Romans. In fact, what has surprised geneticists (and all spaniards) is the genetic continuity from the Chalcolithic to the arrival of the Romans.If you had known that sample in Portugal, you would have had to say that the SSA admixture in Iberia began in the Mesolithic, but to prove it you would have to prove that these cases are not sporadic contacts but regular migrations.

Geneticists are very similar to journalists, they love that their papers have repercussions in the public opinion and that is why every time they find an exotic genome they will make of it a great scientific discovery. This is exactly what happened with the African ancestry of a BB in England that has been published in the thesis of K.Dullias or with the Mit L found in a CWC site in Poland. I suppose that when the Phoenician sites of Cadiz are analyzed (1.000-400 BC), more cases will appear. Of course, all those foreigners who were expecting Iberia to be a super African region must be very disappointed. It is also very sad to see geneticists and amateurs with clear political or racial agendas trying to Levantinize, Judaize or Africanize Spain, Portugal, Italy, France, Greece or the Balkans. I remember a paper from 2010 that tried to prove that Spaniards had 25% of Jewish blood and that more than 30% of our unipersonal markers were Jewish. Ha Ha Ha Ha
 
The fact remains that all the studies of ancient autosomal dna show that the big spike took place during the late Roman and Muslim Era. It's just a fact, whether people like it or not.

The extremely low level of North African and SSA dna in the Basques is the result of the isolation which has resulted in their high levels of homozygosity.
 
The actuality is that Spain as of the Late Antiquity had significant amounts of non-European mixture that was increased from sources like the Moor empire. Denial of the otherwise is just insecurity rooted in desperation to be respected and/or xenophobia.
 
There is only one thing that complicates the question of the origins of the Etruscans: the lack of knowledge of the many studies dedicated to the subject, especially those of archaeology.

The presence of J2b2a-L283 among the Etruscans does not complicate anything and doesn't cast any doubt, the one found among the Etruscans is decidedly more related to the one found earlier in Croatia than to the ones found in the Nuragics, and archaeologists for years have argued that between the end of the Bronze Age and the beginning of the Iron Age in Etruria arrived migrations of male "warriors" from Middle-Danube Urnfield culture (from an area ranging from the northern Balkans to the Danubian plain).

To be clear, these who arrive from Middle-Danube Urnfield culture are not the Etruscans, which is widely shown to have formed in Italy, but they are simply the migrations of a component, probably of IE languages, assimilated by the people who already lived in Etruria, and these newcomers contributed to the ethnogenesis of the Etruscans.

It is methodologically wrong to trace an Iron Age ethnos back to only a specific material culture from many hundreds of years earlier, such as the Bell Beaker, which there really was in Etruria, much more than we think.

I wonder if E-V13 made it the same way as J2b.
 
Maybe an interesting fact: From all modern samples I have in my hard disk, only the Basques reached over 70% for matching with Cardial Ware in optical traits. There is no other modern sample that matches Cardial Ware significantly.
 
@doggerland

what is "optical traits"?
 

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