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Thread: J-L70 - a much needed update

  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    That is interesting how close are you distance wise to R136?
    pretty close below 5
    ( but most of my ancestery is western jewish)



    Distance to: adam
    3.30708331 R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro
    3.49104569 R1544_Imperial_Era_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese
    4.61632971 R64_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    4.68362039 R436_Imperial_Era_Palestrina
    4.75920161 R53_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    4.95236307 R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    5.03863077 R114_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    5.11934566 R57_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    5.58374426 R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    5.93626987 R973_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti
    6.42969673 R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio
    6.58944611 R50_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
    6.64663073 R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
    6.99081540 CrusaderKnightApuliaAbruzzoLebanonCrusaderSI53
    7.06589697 R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    7.10295713 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    7.28116749 R60_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    7.35566448 R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    7.45313357 R1548_Imperial_Era_Monterotondo
    7.53091628 R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    7.54059016 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    7.90899488 R115_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    7.94520610 R47_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
    7.97989348 R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    8.02450622 R121_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/E-Y62418/

    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    pretty close below 5
    ( but most of my ancestery is western jewish)



    Distance to: adam
    3.30708331 R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro
    3.49104569 R1544_Imperial_Era_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese
    4.61632971 R64_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    4.68362039 R436_Imperial_Era_Palestrina
    4.75920161 R53_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    4.95236307 R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    5.03863077 R114_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    5.11934566 R57_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    5.58374426 R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    5.93626987 R973_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti
    6.42969673 R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio
    6.58944611 R50_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
    6.64663073 R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
    6.99081540 CrusaderKnightApuliaAbruzzoLebanonCrusaderSI53
    7.06589697 R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    7.10295713 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    7.28116749 R60_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    7.35566448 R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    7.45313357 R1548_Imperial_Era_Monterotondo
    7.53091628 R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    7.54059016 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    7.90899488 R115_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    7.94520610 R47_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis
    7.97989348 R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    8.02450622 R121_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    I know your Syrian Jewish, Sephardi and Ashkenazi right? With some Bulgarian?

    This makes sense, this sample based on examination looks to be half Southern Italian and half Cappadocian Greek like, so exactly what’d you’d expect on the East Med continuum, where Southern Italians, Western Jews, Greek Islanders and Cypriots plot.

    Don’t know if its controversial here to say we are all in the same cluster.

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    I already got 4 infractions in one afternoon KingJohn your talking to a Eupedia’s most wanted

    You don’t want to upset the mods you know!

    They already banned Swiss Cheese guy wasn’t even here long enough for coffee.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Everything is to prove that some Jews or other Middle Easterners settled in Italy and left some y Dna behind. Whoop-de-doo. Can you imagine obsessing over crap like this?

    Get a life, boys, if there is even more than one of you. Find a girl or a boy or another hobby. This is SO BORING! I come here less and less frequently because there's hardly anybody producing interesting content, or intelligent discussion. Pretty soon it's going to be like theapricity around here, with Sickeliot and his socks talking to each other and upvoting each other. :)
    Your the best you know that 👌🏼

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    I know your Syrian Jewish, Sephardi and Ashkenazi right? With some Bulgarian?
    This makes sense, this sample based on examination looks to be half Southern Italian and half Cappadocian Greek like, so exactly what’d you’d expect on the East Med continuum, where Southern Italians, Western Jews, Greek Islanders and Cypriots plot.
    Don’t know if its controversial here to say we are all in the same cluster.
    Yes i think r136 is belong to the C5 cluster
    The east med one

    P.s
    I started to not write the mizrahi( in my signiture)
    Since i score less than 2% mizrahi cluster
    In my origins 3.0
    same goes for my father who score the same extremely low % .

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Yes i think r136 is belong to the C5 cluster
    The east med one
    P.s
    I started to not write the mizrahi( in my signiture)
    Since i score less than 2% mizrahi cluster
    In my origins 3.0
    same goes for my father who score the same extremely low % .
    Your thinking the Syrian Jewish side might be Sephardi origin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    Your thinking the Syrian Jewish side might be Sephardi origin?
    Yes mostly ( i also see it in my father matches
    The non -aschenazi matches are with mexican and latin americans)
    Buttom line i think syrian jews are different autosomally from iraqi jews
    I thonk They cluster more with cyprus.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Yes mostly ( i also see it in my father matches
    The non -aschenazi matches are with mexican and latin americans)
    Buttom line i think syrian jews are different autosomally from iraqi jews
    I thonk They cluster more with cyprus.....
    It will probably depend on the individual community,
    some Syrian Must’Arabi communities might be even more classical shifted like Samaritans Druze, and Lebanese.

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    I find this interesting, as one of my great-grandfathers was J2a-L70 (Greece). Our subclade is unknown, unfortunately. YFull has several L70 samples in the south Balkans: Albania, Bulgaria and Greece. Some or most of these have pretty old TMRCA’s. The autosomal test of this relative showed mostly south Balkans and some Italy, but that’s only from the last few hundred years. It would be interesting to know if the Romans brought it to the region. or if any of these branches went to Italy from the Balkans (or both).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    It will probably depend on the individual community,
    some Syrian Must’Arabi communities might be even more classical shifted like Samaritans Druze, and Lebanese.
    Yes
    For sure
    From my memory of aleppo jew kit
    Back in the day it cluster with
    cyprus
    It could be that damascus jews are more eastern

    P.s
    My father score 7% maltese cluster there is got to be some
    Med genes that he got from his dad...
    He also pass this maltese cluster to me
    my mom don't score it at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    I find this interesting, as one of my great-grandfathers was J2a-L70 (Greece). Our subclade is unknown, unfortunately. YFull has several L70 samples in the south Balkans: Albania, Bulgaria and Greece. Some or most of these have pretty old TMRCA’s. The autosomal test of this relative showed mostly south Balkans and some Italy, but that’s only from the last few hundred years. It would be interesting to know if the Romans brought it to the region. or if any of these branches went to Italy from the Balkans (or both).
    Maybe it spread to rest of europe
    With the expansion of the roman empire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    I find this interesting, as one of my great-grandfathers was J2a-L70 (Greece). Our subclade is unknown, unfortunately. YFull has several L70 samples in the south Balkans: Albania, Bulgaria and Greece. Some or most of these have pretty old TMRCA’s. The autosomal test of this relative showed mostly south Balkans and some Italy, but that’s only from the last few hundred years. It would be interesting to know if the Romans brought it to the region. or if any of these branches went to Italy from the Balkans (or both).
    Have you gotten your great grandfather’s Y tested through ftdna? There are currently several Greek lines under L70, with a couple under Z40772 and under Z2177. A lot of it is still mysterious for L70, ancient dna will provide the answer, I think its possible and likely some of the L70 in Greece could be as old as Iron Age, have you tested any deeper?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    Have you gotten your great grandfather’s Y tested through ftdna? There are currently several Greek lines under L70, with a couple under Z40772 and under Z2177. A lot of it is still mysterious for L70, ancient dna will provide the answer, I think its possible and likely some of the L70 in Greece could be as old as Iron Age, have you tested any deeper?
    There has not been a deeper test, to my knowledge, only the basal clade L70 found at 23andMe. I only recently started to learn about the branch and am grateful to those who can do deep dives and report their findings.
    B2B757CE-64D7-4F86-80F6-239899538F8D.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    There has not been a deeper test, to my knowledge, only the basal clade L70 found at 23andMe. I only recently started to learn about the branch and am grateful to those who can do deep dives and report their findings.
    B2B757CE-64D7-4F86-80F6-239899538F8D.jpg
    Have tried using Morley to see if any snps are called? I am not sure if 23&me tests any downstream snps of L70, I know the Old Nat Geo used to test. All depends on how much more information you want to know on this lineage, I would give Morley a try or upload the kit to Ftdna.

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    This is the other dude
    From moots paper
    1480-1490 Ad renaissance
    https://yfull.com/tree/J-Z32056/
    He cluster with south french provence autosomally

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    This is the other dude
    From moots paper
    1480-1490 Ad renaissance
    He cluster with south french provence autosomally
    That branch, J-FGC32147, wouldn't surprise me if it were early Arab. As mentioned in my first post, it's presence in Sicily could easily be attributable to the Aghlabid Dynasty. Perhaps this Roman is paternally descended from a Nabatean or an Aramean?

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    To which branch of j2 the neolithic italian(from moots paper)
    Belong ?
    Is he that distant branch from j-L70?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    To which branch of j2 the neolithic italian(from moots paper)
    Belong ?
    Is he that distant branch from j-L70?
    There were only 3 samples from Antonio et al that were J-L70 - 2 from the Middle Ages, and one from Late Antiquity. This admittedly doesn't tell us much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SUPREEEEEME View Post
    There were only 3 samples from Antonio et al that were J-L70 - 2 from the Middle Ages, and one from Late Antiquity. This admittedly doesn't tell us much.
    I am speaking about R19 from moots paper
    It is a neolithic dude
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y17947*/

    Since i am not familier with j2 tree structure
    I am asking how distant R19 branch
    From j-L70 branch in the j2 tree ?


    P.s
    There was even neolithic LbK austrian j2 remain
    So it look to me that some j2 branches were present in europe for a long time

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    I am speaking about R19 from moots paper
    It is a neolithic dude
    Since i am not familier with j2 tree structure
    I am asking how distant R19 branch
    From j-L70 branch in the j2 tree ?
    Ah okay! This branch is very far from J-L70. The most recent shared marker between the two is J-PF5087 - with a TMRCA of 15 700 ybp.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    P.s
    There was even neolithic LbK austrian j2 remain
    So it look to me that some j2 branches were present in europe for a long time
    For sure, there are branches of J2 that have an old presence in Europe - it's just that J-L70 isn't one of them (at least not as old as Neolithic - in any case, J-L70 is too young). As Azzurro suggests, there exists the possibility that J-L70 may have been present amongst Iron Age Greeks (I assume picked up in Anatolia), which would probably be the earliest case of J-L70 in Europe. Either that or via the Phoenicians.

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    15,700 ybp thats very old connection
    Indeed...
    What is your thought about this
    https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y24651*/
    Sardinia and albania tmrca 900bc maybe
    Iron age migration ?

    P.s
    There also 2 other sardinians in other branches
    Under j-L70....
    What is the source in your opinion greeks, pheonicians ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    15,700 ybp thats very old connection
    Indeed...
    What is your thought about this
    https://yfull.com/tree/J-Y24651*/
    Sardinia and albania tmrca 900bc maybe
    Iron age migration ?

    P.s
    There also 2 other sardinians in other branches
    Under j-L70....
    What is the source in your opinion greeks, pheonicians ?
    Currently the 2 J2a samples found in Neolithic Italy, are the one you posted and J-Y29673 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y29677/. If you look at https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y17947/ the downstream clade has been found in Hittite/Hattian samples, so the one from Ripabianca di Monterado could be a dead end, the other J2a branch is still currently found in Italians and seems to even have a hot spot near le Marche and Abruzzo so not far from its Neolithic ancestor. J-SK1336 can be broadly associated as an Aegean marker, we’ll see if some survival branches exist from R19.

    As for L70, it is widely expanded, the Greek source if native would likely be a late Bronze Age Anatolian influx. Ultimately based on its spread it can almost be assumed that it existed in and was native to several cultures from the Levant to the Aegean imho.

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    Some j-L70 cases from albanian dna project
    Rrenjet :
    Tiranë Tiranë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70
    Tiranë Tiranë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70
    Korçë Korçë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70
    Pogradec Korçë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70
    Korçë Korçë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148
    Tiranë Tiranë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148
    Fan Mirditë Lezhë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y24651
    Fan Mirditë Lezhë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y24651
    Fan Mirditë Lezhë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y24651
    Fan Mirditë Lezhë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y24651
    Fan Mirditë Lezhë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y24651
    Dibër Rajoni jugp. Maqedoni J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y2
    PROJEKTI RRËNJËT
    Last edited by kingjohn; 13-04-21 at 14:55.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    Some j-L70 cases from albanian dna project
    Rrenjet :
    Tiranë Tiranë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70
    Tiranë Tiranë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70
    Korçë Korçë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70
    Pogradec Korçë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70
    Korçë Korçë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148
    Tiranë Tiranë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148
    Fan Mirditë Lezhë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y24651
    Fan Mirditë Lezhë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y24651
    Fan Mirditë Lezhë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y24651
    Fan Mirditë Lezhë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y24651
    Fan Mirditë Lezhë Shqipëri J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y24651
    Dibër Rajoni jugp. Maqedoni J2a-M410>PF5160>L24>L25>Z387>L70>Z2148>Y2
    PROJEKTI RRËNJËT
    Thanks for this! This is far better data for Albanians than that available from FTDNA - Albanians appear to have 1.1% J-L70. I imagine some of it could be Greek (?) and some is likely via Syrian Auxiliaries - several of those units were in the Balkans from Antioch, Hem, Itura, and Tyre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzurro View Post
    Currently the 2 J2a samples found in Neolithic Italy, are the one you posted and J-Y29673 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y29677/. If you look at https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Y17947/ the downstream clade has been found in Hittite/Hattian samples, so the one from Ripabianca di Monterado could be a dead end, the other J2a branch is still currently found in Italians and seems to even have a hot spot near le Marche and Abruzzo so not far from its Neolithic ancestor. J-SK1336 can be broadly associated as an Aegean marker, we’ll see if some survival branches exist from R19.

    As for L70, it is widely expanded, the Greek source if native would likely be a late Bronze Age Anatolian influx. Ultimately based on its spread it can almost be assumed that it existed in and was native to several cultures from the Levant to the Aegean imho.
    I think it ultimately came from the Caucasus region, into Anatolian, not the Levant into Anatolia. If so, it probably came by way of the Bronze Age pulse of Iran_N-like ancestry.

    Part of my reasoning:



    Only about 5% of LBA Anatolian autosomal DNA is attributed to Levantine Farmers, while over 1/3rd is attributed to Iran/Caucasus.

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