Anti-vaxxer movement strongest in France

[Ceribell]

I suppose that I am lucky to live in a state with a very high percentage of people that are vaccinated. I do believe that we have reached critical mass in my area , as of today not one inpatient has tested COVID-19 positive.
Now we are seeing a surplus of vaccines, that will go bad, if not used.
The right thing to do would be for the big American pharmaceutical companies to give the shots to needy countries. . . . Not force them on American people that do not want it or need it.

[Jovialis]

As soon as they allow the vaccine for children under 12 to be eligible, I don't give a damn about who doesn't want to take it. Young children, although supposedly do better with the virus, are still vulnerable. We don't know what the long term effects will be 10 or 20 years from now, on children who get infected. Unfortunately, because of these ignorant and selfish people who do not want to be vaccinated, we have to have young children at risk of catching the disease.

[Ceribell]

Perhaps the long term effect in young children who become infected with Covid-19, will be a life time of natural immunity to a disease that poses little risk to them?

[Jovialis]

Perhaps the long term effect in young children who become infected with Covid-19, will be a life time of natural immunity to a disease that poses little risk to them?

People who are sick can still get re-infected. I've heard of people who still have not been able to taste or smell anything after being infected 9 months ago. Some people even have had brain damage from the virus. I for one, am not willing to wait and see for my child, when there will be a vaccine that can prevent it from happening. Like I said, as soon as children are able to get vaccinated, and we have achieved herd immunity; I don't care what unvaccinated people do with their lives. Frankly, the unvaccinated will essentially be free-loaders, who live insulated in a population that had the good-sense to get vaccinated.

[Ygorcs]

I'm blessed to live in a country with big pharma therapy and abundance of clean drinking water-is that considered "white privilege?" I don't know(https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/06/...o-clean-water/). However being of little means, I can't afford the experimental treatment being offered against a virus with a mortality rate of roughly .05%+/- give or take(4million+/- divided by 7.9 billion+/-). However if I could afford the experimental treatments; I would want to donate mine to a person of little means in the third world, who have neither access to clean drinking water, or the experimental therapy.

That proportion of mortality rate makes no sense. That's like considering ebola extremely harmless because the number of people who have EVER died from ebola (not just in 1 year and a few months, as Covid-19) is ridiculously tiny in comparison to the whole world's population. Covid-19 is highly transmissible on a person to person basis (so it's not just about you: you may survive or perhaps even have only mild symptoms, but you can *directly* or indirectly cause someone else's death... assuming you care about that, of course), it kills at least 1-3% of those who get the disease (depends highly on where you live and how overstretched - or not - the hospitals and ICUs in your city will be when and if you get infected), and it causes serious, potentially long-term damaging symptoms and collateral damages in at least 10-20% of those infected by the virus. Honestly, by this time into the pandemic those should be elementary info.

[Silesian]

Ygorcs how's it going?
Ebola now- wow-more doom and gloom, why am I not surprised ? Any positive news?

[Angela]

I took Moderna, both shots. I was tired and a bit achy for a day or two as anyone who has children will know are typical reactions to any vaccine. Other than that, nothing.

So happy we were all able to get it.

At my son's place of business you have to present your *********** showing both shots or you have to wear a mask every freaking second.

[Ygorcs]

Ygorcs how's it going?
Ebola now- wow-more doom and gloom, why am I not surprised ? Any positive news?

What? "Ebola now"? Something tells me you misinterpreted a simple comment and didn't get a very basic comparison with a previous event to explain why your mortality rate calculus has zero relevance to determine how dangerous Covid-19 is to people who are really exposed to the virus.

As for positive news, I have one for you: many countries in the world already have more than 1/3 of their population vaccinated with at least dose of a jab against Covid-19, and that includes some of the most hardly hit countries of the world, like USA, UK, Brazil and Italy. So, yeah, that's very positive news.

[Silesian]

This is a list of the largest known epidemics and pandemics caused by an infectious disease
Does anyone disagree with covid at number 8 spot @0.04%-0.1%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics

[Angela]

This is a list of the largest known epidemics and pandemics caused by an infectious disease
Does anyone disagree with covid at number 8 spot @0.04%-0.1%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics

I think one has to consider the effect of the vaccines when looking at those numbers. In the past there was nothing one could do. Look at the plague: it still exists, but antibiotics cure it. Same goes for TB, and I don't think anyone knows really how many died, but it was a scourge,

I don't want you to get it, Silesian; even if it doesn't kill you, the side effects can be terrible. Look at how many have taken the vaccine with no ill effects, even very old people. Take it, especially with the Delta version rocketing around the world. You won't be sorry.

Just as a side note, the reason variants like the Delta version arise in the first place is precisely because there are huge reservoirs where there's a lot of Covid, giving the virus more opportunity to mutate.

[Ygorcs]

This is a list of the largest known epidemics and pandemics caused by an infectious disease
Does anyone disagree with covid at number 8 spot @0.04%-0.1%
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics

So, is your point that Covid-19 is no big deal and, therefore, has no need to be eradicated by mass vaccination because previous epidemics and pandemics killed more people (usually, by the way, because most people didn't know how or had no practical means to prevent it as fast and effectively as we do now, using vaccines, masks, social distancing, avoiding crowds and closed spaces, alcohol etc., nor had they access to the advanced medicine and medical equipments we have now?

You are also perhaps forgetting (let's pretend that for a moment) that 0.04-0.1% is only 0.04-0.1% because BILLIONS of people did everything they could to avoid getting exposed to the virus, and that meant NOT LIVING IN NORMAL CONDITIONS for more than one entire year, with huge personal and economic damages. Only 5-8% of the world's population were contamined by the coronavirus so far, which means that the low mortality rate is not simply because the virus is little lethal, but rather in large part because the virus was AVOIDED by a huge portion of humankind via huge sacrifices and concerted efforts. Now, if you let the virus spread loose and totally unrestricted, you would definitely see that proportion rise 10-fold or so.

It's a bit like saying homicide is no big issue, so why spend so much with policing, investigation and judicial system to curb violence? After all, only ~500,000 people die every year from homicide, a tiny 0.005%, most of them just in a few dozens of nations of the world, so why bother? Let people kill each other freely, it's not worth the effort and the huge expenses.

Honestly? I can only roll my eyes when I hear arguments like yours.

[Maciamo]

Flanders has become the first European region (excluding minor countries with less than half a million people) to reach a 70% vaccination rate against Covid. Within Belgium Flanders is 10% ahead of Wallonia.

This is for the whole population, including children who cannot be vaccinated. You can see on this very well designed website that the vaccination rate for all Belgium is about 90% of over 65 years old, 86% for 45-65 years old and 69% of 18-44 years old.

Pfizer/BioNTech leads with 63% of all vaccinations.

In the next few days, Belgium should overtake the UK, Israel and Canada and get the highest vaccination rate of Western countries (excluding minor countries like San Marino or Monaco).

Interestingly one month ago Belgium and France had a similar vaccination rate, but France has barely increased and is still at 51%.

[Jovialis]

Flanders has become the first European region (excluding minor countries with less than half a million people) to reach a 70% vaccination rate against Covid. Within Belgium Flanders is 10% ahead of Wallonia.

This is for the whole population, including children who cannot be vaccinated. You can see on this very well designed website that the vaccination rate for all Belgium is about 90% of over 65 years old, 86% for 45-65 years old and 69% of 18-44 years old.

Pfizer/BioNTech leads with 63% of all vaccinations.

In the next few days, Belgium should overtake the UK, Israel and Canada and get the highest vaccination rate of Western countries (excluding minor countries like San Marino or Monaco).

Interestingly one month ago Belgium and France had a similar vaccination rate, but France has barely increased and is still at 51%.

Right now, supply is ample, anyone can just walk into a pharmacy to get the shot, without an appointment. The only people who are left, are the true anti-vaxxers, and ignorantly fearful. It is frustrating to see the upward tick of those receiving vaccines has flat-lined. Hopefully, once they start vaccinating people 12 and under, we will achieve the range of herd immunity.

That, or they really need to start using more carrots and sticks to get people to receive the shot. Some people are only getting it because their company is mandating it. I think the government should pressure more companies to mandate shots, or perhaps provide them incentives, like more tax breaks.

[bicicleur 2]

Right now, supply is ample, anyone can just walk into a pharmacy to get the shot, without an appointment.

It's like that in Brussels.
In Flanders it's not like that yet, but it probably will be like that within a few weeks.
Brussels and Flanders recieve the same amount of vaccins related to their population.
The difference is that there are many more anti-vaxxers in Brussels, while in Flanders there are very few.

[Silesian]

Extra, extra read all about it--Conspiracy theory anti-vaxxer media factory overload.
Anyone know what the WHO position is on child covid vaccines?

​COVID-19: Henry stays course on vaccine for children, despite no WHO policy


https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...-no-who-policy

[Jovialis]

Extra, extra read all about it--Conspiracy theory anti-vaxxer media factory overload.
Anyone know what the WHO position is on child covid vaccines?

​COVID-19: Henry stays course on vaccine for children, despite no WHO policy


https://vancouversun.com/news/local-...-no-who-policy

The WHO has said Pfizer is fine to use for children 12+, which is what is allowed in the US.

[Jovialis]

anti-vaxxers

I think the issue with trying to educate people on the vaccine, is that they don't trust the sources they are coming from. However, I don't think these people think too deeply about much, and are more responsive to sensation than reason. Which is why governments should use "sticks" to imperil their base motivations, like income. Governments need to pressure or persuade companies to make it mandatory for their employees to get the vaccine. People can still have their freedoms, but they also have the freedom to be unemployed, if they don't want to follow suit.

[Silesian]

The WHO has said Pfizer is fine to use for children 12+, which is what is allowed in the US.

Well if that is the case, I would be willing to try the new experimental gene therapy and have people monitor me for let's say a meager 1 million dollars in gold, just in case I could not work anymore. It's a sacrifice I would be willing to make to help out( BTW I'm all caught up all my vaccines). Originally I was thinking about Sputnik 5 or Sinopharm vaccine, I think both traditional.

[Silesian]

Here is a cool website with up to date stats. You can even scroll over countries. For example Lao Peoples Democratic Republic had only 3 deaths so far(population 7 million +/-).
WHO Coronavirus (COVID-19) Dashboard
https://covid19.who.int/?adgroupsurvey={adgroupsurvey}

[Jovialis]

Well if that is the case, I would be willing to try the new experimental gene therapy and have people monitor me for let's say a meager 1 million dollars in gold, just in case I could not work anymore. It's a sacrifice I would be willing to make to help out( BTW I'm all caught up all my vaccines). Originally I was thinking about Sputnik 5 or Sinopharm vaccine, I think both traditional.

I have already debunked these harmful lies with legitimate sources. Do not spread disinformation, mRNA vaccines are not experimental, and they are not gene therapy.

[Silesian]

I have already debunked these harmful lies with legitimate sources. Do not spread disinformation, mRNA vaccines are not experimental, and they are not gene therapy.

Wikipedia


This is what wikipedia has under RNA vaccines
General

Before 2020, no mRNA technology platform (drug or vaccine) had been authorized for use in humans, so there was a risk of unknown effects.^[44] The 2020 COVID-19 pandemic required faster production capability of mRNA vaccines, made them attractive to national health organisations, and led to debate about the type of initial authorization mRNA vaccines should get (including emergency use authorization or expanded access authorization) after the eight-week period of post-final human trials.^[73][74]

[Silesian]

I think one has to consider the effect of the vaccines when looking at those numbers. In the past there was nothing one could do. Look at the plague: it still exists, but antibiotics cure it. Same goes for TB, and I don't think anyone knows really how many died, but it was a scourge,

I don't want you to get it, Silesian; even if it doesn't kill you, the side effects can be terrible. Look at how many have taken the vaccine with no ill effects, even very old people. Take it, especially with the Delta version rocketing around the world. You won't be sorry.

Just as a side note, the reason variants like the Delta version arise in the first place is precisely because there are huge reservoirs where there's a lot of Covid, giving the virus more opportunity to mutate.

There are so many vaccines to choose from. How did you know which one to choose? Did future reservoirs of potential variants come into play when you made your decision?
For example children potential variant reservoirs for Delta or Lambda, spreading, who were vaccinated versus children un-vaccinated
https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/...romised-672894

[Jovialis]

Wikipedia


This is what wikipedia has under RNA vaccines
General

Before 2020, no mRNA technology platform (drug or vaccine) had been authorized for use in humans, so there was a risk of unknown effects.^[44] The 2020 COVID-19 pandemic required faster production capability of mRNA vaccines, made them attractive to national health organisations, and led to debate about the type of initial authorization mRNA vaccines should get (including emergency use authorization or expanded access authorization) after the eight-week period of post-final human trials.^[73][74]

How in your mind does this make it experimental or gene therapy?

Take a look at the source, an editorial published by one person, prior to when the papers on the results were released a month later.

[Jovialis]

How in your mind does this make it experimental or gene therapy?

Take a look at the source, an editorial published by one person, prior to when the papers on the results were released a month later.

in fact here is a more recent article where this same author praises the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

"Two vaccines made using messenger RNA (mRNA) have proved spectacularly successful at warding off COVID-19"

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01661-0

Moreover, the article shows that there are rigorous standards that are put in place, as it points out with this third vaccine.

What are you trying to prove here?

[Silesian]

in fact here is a more recent article where this same author praises the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

"Two vaccines made using messenger RNA (mRNA) have proved spectacularly successful at warding off COVID-19"

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01661-0

Moreover, the article shows that there are rigorous standards that are put in place, as it points out with this third vaccine.

What are you trying to prove here?

I don't know what to believe anymore. When I get my vaccine I want as close as possible 90%-100% effective and not have to wear PPE mask and face shield anymore and keep being questioned at work everyday if I have any changes and using thermal imaging scanning me, and some laser pointed at my forehead taking my temp ( I don't even know if I already had it and am just asymptomatic) it's so hot and I'm not getting proper oxygen, only my own recycled breadth day in and day out. Here is another article
75 pupils contract COVID-19 from a vaccinated person at school party in Tel Aviv; former Health Ministry deputy director calls to bring back 'Green Pass' system

https://www.timesofisrael.com/officials-to-weigh-reimposing-some-virus-restrictions-as-delta-variant-spreads/amp/?__twitter_impression=true