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Thread: Anti-vaxxer movement strongest in France

  1. #176
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    https://apnews.com/article/coronavir...6e7354f5d5e187
    Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated
    Last edited by ihype02; 09-09-21 at 20:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Given the high transmissibility of the Delta Variant, imo if you're not vaccinated, you will eventually get it. So, if you want to count on getting a very mild case, go ahead and refuse to get vaccinated.
    you might get it even if you are vaccinated. all people who are vaccinated should at some point be infected with the real virus if they want the best possible protection against new upcoming mutants. and those will come because covid will stay and mutate forever. there is a big misconception, that exists currently imo, namely that people should get vaccinated to not get infected in the future and also to not possibly infect unvaccinated or other already vaccinated. the vaccine really is just a means to lower the effect of the first real infection for possible risk patients once they have it, and for the rest just to lower the speed of spread.
    this is also why i think it makes no sense to let vaccinated people walk around without masks or travel more, like it is done currently in some countries.

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    Maciano why are you siding with giant pharmaceutical companies against the common people? The claim that the uninjected have flooded hospitals is outright laughable, it's the jabbed that are going to hospitals with a chimera of problems, heart pain being the most common, followed by strokes and neurological issues.

    I do want to ask you though at what point will you stop taking the shot? The 5th booster, the 6th turbo charger..... the 80th? At what point you will question this absolute farce?

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    Going to get interesting. Here comes Omricon.
    Pro Innate immunity & Pro Vaxxer. Looking for the right Covid-Vax to compliment a strong innate immune system.

    H. event.


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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Going to get interesting. Here comes Omricon.
    Many will die, and the vast majority will be unvaccinated people. That's called natural selection.

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    I was supposed to go to Botswana and other southern African countries on my honeymoon for safari back in 2020. But of course, we had to put that on hold. At this rate, we will never be able.

    Not only will the unvaccinated be claimed by future variants, but many of the third-world people with little to no access to medicine.

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    No need wait until 2076(55 years) to parse the AE(adverse events data) FOIA(Freedom of information act).
    Data 28-Feb-2021.

    5.3.6 CUMULATIVE ANALYSIS OF POST-AUTHORIZATION ADVERSE EVENT REPORTS OF PF-07302048 (BNT162B2) RECEIVED THROUGH 28-FEB-2021

    https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads...experience.pdf

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    Omicron variant----New York-Minnesota connection?
    Double vax, and booster?
    Omicron variant COVID-19 infection in Minnesota confirmed, according to health department

    https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...ed/8836410002/
    The Minnesota resident is a vaccinated male who resides in Hennepin County and experienced mild symptoms Nov. 22, the same week the variant was first discovered in South Africa. The person was tested Nov. 24 and no longer has symptoms. The resident attended the Anime NYC 2021 convention Nov. 19-21. Minnesota epidemiologists are collaboratively investigating with New York City and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.....

    The individual received a COVID-19 booster in early November, with primary vaccination more than six months ago, according to Minnesota Department of Health Commissioner Jan Malcolm. One person in his network has tested positive for COVID-19 and follow up is being done.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoRevenge View Post
    Maciano why are you siding with giant pharmaceutical companies against the common people? The claim that the uninjected have flooded hospitals is outright laughable, it's the jabbed that are going to hospitals with a chimera of problems, heart pain being the most common, followed by strokes and neurological issues.

    I do want to ask you though at what point will you stop taking the shot? The 5th booster, the 6th turbo charger..... the 80th? At what point you will question this absolute farce?
    Giant pharmaceutical companies? The two main vaccines are made by BioNTech and Moderna, both small start-ups. BioNTech was founded in 2008 and has about 1300 employees. Moderna was founded in 2010 and has 1800 employees. In comparison this forum has 57,000 members, including 4400 active members.

    A third vaccine is made by Novavax, which has only 791 employees.

    The biggest company making Covid vaccines is AstraZeneca (76,000 employees), but their vaccine was only widely used in the UK due to their partnership with Oxford University and the fact that the company is headquartered in England. That's why the British government chose it (supporting local jobs), despite it being less effective.

    So no, overall Covid vaccines have very little to do with big pharma. BioNTech was so small that they had to partner with Pfizer for support with clinical trials and logistics as they didn't have the means to do it themselves, being so tiny on a world scale. By the vaccine itself was developed by BioNTech, not Pfizer.
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    Follow the ownership of stocks in these companies, and the board of directors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Giant pharmaceutical companies? The two main vaccines are made by BioNTech and Moderna, both small start-ups. BioNTech was founded in 2008 and has about 1300 employees. Moderna was founded in 2010 and has 1800 employees. In comparison this forum has 57,000 members, including 4400 active members.

    A third vaccine is made by Novavax, which has only 791 employees.

    The biggest company making Covid vaccines is AstraZeneca (76,000 employees), but their vaccine was only widely used in the UK due to their partnership with Oxford University and the fact that the company is headquartered in England. That's why the British government chose it (supporting local jobs), despite it being less effective.

    So no, overall Covid vaccines have very little to do with big pharma. BioNTech was so small that they had to partner with Pfizer for support with clinical trials and logistics as they didn't have the means to do it themselves, being so tiny on a world scale. By the vaccine itself was developed by BioNTech, not Pfizer.
    https://krisis.eu/article/view/37163/35182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    The French like to do things differently from everyone else. In the last few months they have made the headlines around the world for the dogged refusal to get vaccinated against Covid-19.

    The reasons are varied. Some people believe in the wildest conspiracy theories, claiming that the vaccines are designed to modify people's DNA so that governments can control them! Not only do such people lack any knowledge of genetics/biology/medicine, but even if that was possible, there would need to be a sort of global consensus from all/most governments, a thing that has practically never happened.

    Other people simply object to the government telling them what to do. They are anti-establishment, even maybe anarchists. During the Covid lockdowns, the French government imposed heavy fines on people who did not respect the rules, and some of the rules were stricter than almost anywhere else. At one point there was a curfew set at 6 pm! At another there was an obligation to carry a travel exemption *********** (attestation de déplacement dérogatoire) to go out, even to go grocery shopping, clearly mentioning on the paper the reason for going out. This way, if the police stopped someone, they could verify if the reason stated on the paper matched their location. Later they restricted all movements within France to a certain distance radius from one's home. It's understandable that a lot of French people see these rules as abusive limitations of their freedom. Some compared it to living under Nazi occupation and half-jokingly said that soon people who weren't vaccinated would have to carry a yellow star on their arm (in reference to the Jews living under the Nazi regime).

    The anti-vaccine movement has been strong in France for a long time. It's one of the few countries with Italy, Greece and the US where a significant minority of the population fears that child vaccines can cause autism or other issues.

    BBC News: The vaccine misinformation battle raging in France

    "France is one of the most vaccine-sceptical countries in the world - fertile ground for hard-line anti-vaccine activists spreading online misinformation, writes the BBC's specialist disinformation reporter Marianna Spring.

    The Facebook group that Gilles helps to run is just one example of a larger trend - an increase in French-language anti-vaccine content on social media over the past year.

    Research from BBC Monitoring found that the number of followers of pages sharing extreme anti-vaccine content in French grew in 2020, from 3.2m to nearly 4.1m likes.

    These pages aren't about asking legitimate medical questions - they're miles away from the scientific and political discussions currently under way in Europe and elsewhere.

    Instead, they're run by people who've firmly made up their minds against vaccinations, and who spread wild false rumours about vaccines killing millions, containing tracking devices, or altering our DNA.

    Anti-vaccine pages in French also tend to mix in anti-establishment posts. Many of the discussions centre around concerns that Covid jabs could be made compulsory, with anti-establishment and protest communities fearing that French democracy will be replaced with a so-called "sanitary dictatorship".
    "

    CNBC : France’s vaccine-skepticism is making its Covid immunization drive much harder

    "France is thought to be one of the most vaccine-skeptical nations in the world, with public distrust of immunization programs borne out in opinion polls even prior to the coronavirus pandemic.
    [...]
    An Ipsos survey conducted in conjunction with the World Economic Forum between Dec. 17-20 (and so after the first Covid-19 vaccinations had been given in the U.S. and U.K. but not yet in the EU), found the lowest levels of vaccination intent in France.

    The survey — of 13,500 people in 15 countries — found that only 40% of adults asked in France intended to get the vaccine. The highest intention was found in China, where the coronavirus pandemic first emerged in December 2019, with 80% of people agreeing they would get a vaccine if it were available. For comparison, 77% of those asked in the U.K. said they would have the shot, and 69% of those in the U.S. said they intended to get the vaccine.
    "

    Another September 2020 survey comprising 27 countries shows that a few months earlier 59% of French people wanted to be vaccinated. So there has been a recent decrease. In this poll, France was already among the most anti-vaccine countries. Only Hungary, Poland and Russia were even more so. All countries where confidence in the state is very low!

    Intention to be vaccinated (Sept 2020): Russia 53%, France 59%, USA 67%, Belgium 71%, Japan 75%, United Kingdom 85%, Australia 87%...

    In the United States, it is mainly blacks and Hispanics who are skeptical of the vaccine. They are also the two ethnic groups that trust the government the least (historically). So it's really about trust.


    Yet, the French are in fact heavily divided on the issue. In another survey asking if the Covid-19 vaccine should be mandatory for everyone, 37% of French people replied that it should. That was the lowest percentage in the survey, but still. It means that on the one hand somewhere between 41% and 60% of French people do not want to be vaccinated, but 37% think it should be compulsory. That leaves only about 3 to 22% of moderates in the middle.


    When I compare this with the current affairs in the Netherlands we can partly compare it with the US or France. Th traditional anti-vax is strong in the Bible Belt (in a range right to middle of the country very strong) and among some "greens" mostly city dwellers.

    With the almost total collaps of the big broad party's around the center (christen and social democratic) in the last decennia, there is a very big upheaval of "populist right" in fast flowing party's, they strongly support anti-vaxx and it delivers a combination of conspiracy, q-anon, anti-establishment.....and anti-vax movement.

    This results in that about 1/7-1/8 of the population is not vaccinated. With a big chunk of principal non-vaxxers. This has caused a virulent peak in covid now. Combined with a health care and especially ic capacity that was the last years efficient to the max.... so absolutely no more than 'normally' needed.

    We now face a total health care collaps because of this, the ic is overload with mostly non vaxxed people (70%). The health care workers are exhausted and must face discussions with non vaxxers who are sometimes quite hysterical, that even had leads to extra police in the hospitals.... Alle patients that need urgent care (like cancer patient) must wait now. With all the consequences (more death people).

    But compared to Belgium, Germany and Austria the 'obligation to vaccinate' is a political no go area, the individual rights are holy even if this means that people don't get the care any longer they desperately need. A fact I feel quit uncomfortable with....imo individualism that has lead to blunt egoism.

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