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Thread: Anti-vaxxer movement strongest in France

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    https://apnews.com/article/coronavir...6e7354f5d5e187
    Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated
    Last edited by ihype02; 09-09-21 at 20:29.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    Given the high transmissibility of the Delta Variant, imo if you're not vaccinated, you will eventually get it. So, if you want to count on getting a very mild case, go ahead and refuse to get vaccinated.
    you might get it even if you are vaccinated. all people who are vaccinated should at some point be infected with the real virus if they want the best possible protection against new upcoming mutants. and those will come because covid will stay and mutate forever. there is a big misconception, that exists currently imo, namely that people should get vaccinated to not get infected in the future and also to not possibly infect unvaccinated or other already vaccinated. the vaccine really is just a means to lower the effect of the first real infection for possible risk patients once they have it, and for the rest just to lower the speed of spread.
    this is also why i think it makes no sense to let vaccinated people walk around without masks or travel more, like it is done currently in some countries.

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    Maciano why are you siding with giant pharmaceutical companies against the common people? The claim that the uninjected have flooded hospitals is outright laughable, it's the jabbed that are going to hospitals with a chimera of problems, heart pain being the most common, followed by strokes and neurological issues.

    I do want to ask you though at what point will you stop taking the shot? The 5th booster, the 6th turbo charger..... the 80th? At what point you will question this absolute farce?

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    Going to get interesting. Here comes Omricon.
    Pro Innate immunity & Pro Vaxxer. Looking for the right Covid-Vax to compliment a strong innate immune system.

    H. event.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Going to get interesting. Here comes Omricon.
    Many will die, and the vast majority will be unvaccinated people. That's called natural selection.

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    I was supposed to go to Botswana and other southern African countries on my honeymoon for safari back in 2020. But of course, we had to put that on hold. At this rate, we will never be able.

    Not only will the unvaccinated be claimed by future variants, but many of the third-world people with little to no access to medicine.

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    No need wait until 2076(55 years) to parse the AE(adverse events data) FOIA(Freedom of information act).
    Data 28-Feb-2021.

    5.3.6 CUMULATIVE ANALYSIS OF POST-AUTHORIZATION ADVERSE EVENT REPORTS OF PF-07302048 (BNT162B2) RECEIVED THROUGH 28-FEB-2021

    https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads...experience.pdf

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    Omicron variant----New York-Minnesota connection?
    Double vax, and booster?
    Omicron variant COVID-19 infection in Minnesota confirmed, according to health department

    https://www.indystar.com/story/news/...ed/8836410002/
    The Minnesota resident is a vaccinated male who resides in Hennepin County and experienced mild symptoms Nov. 22, the same week the variant was first discovered in South Africa. The person was tested Nov. 24 and no longer has symptoms. The resident attended the Anime NYC 2021 convention Nov. 19-21. Minnesota epidemiologists are collaboratively investigating with New York City and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.....

    The individual received a COVID-19 booster in early November, with primary vaccination more than six months ago, according to Minnesota Department of Health Commissioner Jan Malcolm. One person in his network has tested positive for COVID-19 and follow up is being done.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by PaleoRevenge View Post
    Maciano why are you siding with giant pharmaceutical companies against the common people? The claim that the uninjected have flooded hospitals is outright laughable, it's the jabbed that are going to hospitals with a chimera of problems, heart pain being the most common, followed by strokes and neurological issues.

    I do want to ask you though at what point will you stop taking the shot? The 5th booster, the 6th turbo charger..... the 80th? At what point you will question this absolute farce?
    Giant pharmaceutical companies? The two main vaccines are made by BioNTech and Moderna, both small start-ups. BioNTech was founded in 2008 and has about 1300 employees. Moderna was founded in 2010 and has 1800 employees. In comparison this forum has 57,000 members, including 4400 active members.

    A third vaccine is made by Novavax, which has only 791 employees.

    The biggest company making Covid vaccines is AstraZeneca (76,000 employees), but their vaccine was only widely used in the UK due to their partnership with Oxford University and the fact that the company is headquartered in England. That's why the British government chose it (supporting local jobs), despite it being less effective.

    So no, overall Covid vaccines have very little to do with big pharma. BioNTech was so small that they had to partner with Pfizer for support with clinical trials and logistics as they didn't have the means to do it themselves, being so tiny on a world scale. By the vaccine itself was developed by BioNTech, not Pfizer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    Giant pharmaceutical companies? The two main vaccines are made by BioNTech and Moderna, both small start-ups. BioNTech was founded in 2008 and has about 1300 employees. Moderna was founded in 2010 and has 1800 employees. In comparison this forum has 57,000 members, including 4400 active members.

    A third vaccine is made by Novavax, which has only 791 employees.

    The biggest company making Covid vaccines is AstraZeneca (76,000 employees), but their vaccine was only widely used in the UK due to their partnership with Oxford University and the fact that the company is headquartered in England. That's why the British government chose it (supporting local jobs), despite it being less effective.

    So no, overall Covid vaccines have very little to do with big pharma. BioNTech was so small that they had to partner with Pfizer for support with clinical trials and logistics as they didn't have the means to do it themselves, being so tiny on a world scale. By the vaccine itself was developed by BioNTech, not Pfizer.
    https://krisis.eu/article/view/37163/35182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post
    The French like to do things differently from everyone else. In the last few months they have made the headlines around the world for the dogged refusal to get vaccinated against Covid-19.

    The reasons are varied. Some people believe in the wildest conspiracy theories, claiming that the vaccines are designed to modify people's DNA so that governments can control them! Not only do such people lack any knowledge of genetics/biology/medicine, but even if that was possible, there would need to be a sort of global consensus from all/most governments, a thing that has practically never happened.

    Other people simply object to the government telling them what to do. They are anti-establishment, even maybe anarchists. During the Covid lockdowns, the French government imposed heavy fines on people who did not respect the rules, and some of the rules were stricter than almost anywhere else. At one point there was a curfew set at 6 pm! At another there was an obligation to carry a travel exemption *********** (attestation de déplacement dérogatoire) to go out, even to go grocery shopping, clearly mentioning on the paper the reason for going out. This way, if the police stopped someone, they could verify if the reason stated on the paper matched their location. Later they restricted all movements within France to a certain distance radius from one's home. It's understandable that a lot of French people see these rules as abusive limitations of their freedom. Some compared it to living under Nazi occupation and half-jokingly said that soon people who weren't vaccinated would have to carry a yellow star on their arm (in reference to the Jews living under the Nazi regime).

    The anti-vaccine movement has been strong in France for a long time. It's one of the few countries with Italy, Greece and the US where a significant minority of the population fears that child vaccines can cause autism or other issues.

    BBC News: The vaccine misinformation battle raging in France

    "France is one of the most vaccine-sceptical countries in the world - fertile ground for hard-line anti-vaccine activists spreading online misinformation, writes the BBC's specialist disinformation reporter Marianna Spring.

    The Facebook group that Gilles helps to run is just one example of a larger trend - an increase in French-language anti-vaccine content on social media over the past year.

    Research from BBC Monitoring found that the number of followers of pages sharing extreme anti-vaccine content in French grew in 2020, from 3.2m to nearly 4.1m likes.

    These pages aren't about asking legitimate medical questions - they're miles away from the scientific and political discussions currently under way in Europe and elsewhere.

    Instead, they're run by people who've firmly made up their minds against vaccinations, and who spread wild false rumours about vaccines killing millions, containing tracking devices, or altering our DNA.

    Anti-vaccine pages in French also tend to mix in anti-establishment posts. Many of the discussions centre around concerns that Covid jabs could be made compulsory, with anti-establishment and protest communities fearing that French democracy will be replaced with a so-called "sanitary dictatorship".
    "

    CNBC : France’s vaccine-skepticism is making its Covid immunization drive much harder

    "France is thought to be one of the most vaccine-skeptical nations in the world, with public distrust of immunization programs borne out in opinion polls even prior to the coronavirus pandemic.
    [...]
    An Ipsos survey conducted in conjunction with the World Economic Forum between Dec. 17-20 (and so after the first Covid-19 vaccinations had been given in the U.S. and U.K. but not yet in the EU), found the lowest levels of vaccination intent in France.

    The survey — of 13,500 people in 15 countries — found that only 40% of adults asked in France intended to get the vaccine. The highest intention was found in China, where the coronavirus pandemic first emerged in December 2019, with 80% of people agreeing they would get a vaccine if it were available. For comparison, 77% of those asked in the U.K. said they would have the shot, and 69% of those in the U.S. said they intended to get the vaccine.
    "

    Another September 2020 survey comprising 27 countries shows that a few months earlier 59% of French people wanted to be vaccinated. So there has been a recent decrease. In this poll, France was already among the most anti-vaccine countries. Only Hungary, Poland and Russia were even more so. All countries where confidence in the state is very low!

    Intention to be vaccinated (Sept 2020): Russia 53%, France 59%, USA 67%, Belgium 71%, Japan 75%, United Kingdom 85%, Australia 87%...

    In the United States, it is mainly blacks and Hispanics who are skeptical of the vaccine. They are also the two ethnic groups that trust the government the least (historically). So it's really about trust.


    Yet, the French are in fact heavily divided on the issue. In another survey asking if the Covid-19 vaccine should be mandatory for everyone, 37% of French people replied that it should. That was the lowest percentage in the survey, but still. It means that on the one hand somewhere between 41% and 60% of French people do not want to be vaccinated, but 37% think it should be compulsory. That leaves only about 3 to 22% of moderates in the middle.


    When I compare this with the current affairs in the Netherlands we can partly compare it with the US or France. Th traditional anti-vax is strong in the Bible Belt (in a range right to middle of the country very strong) and among some "greens" mostly city dwellers.

    With the almost total collaps of the big broad party's around the center (christen and social democratic) in the last decennia, there is a very big upheaval of "populist right" in fast flowing party's, they strongly support anti-vaxx and it delivers a combination of conspiracy, q-anon, anti-establishment.....and anti-vax movement.

    This results in that about 1/7-1/8 of the population is not vaccinated. With a big chunk of principal non-vaxxers. This has caused a virulent peak in covid now. Combined with a health care and especially ic capacity that was the last years efficient to the max.... so absolutely no more than 'normally' needed.

    We now face a total health care collaps because of this, the ic is overload with mostly non vaxxed people (70%). The health care workers are exhausted and must face discussions with non vaxxers who are sometimes quite hysterical, that even had leads to extra police in the hospitals.... Alle patients that need urgent care (like cancer patients) must wait now. With all the consequences (more death people).

    But compared to Belgium, Germany and Austria the 'obligation to vaccinate' is a political no go area, the individual rights are holy even if this means that people don't get the care any longer they desperately need. A fact I feel quit uncomfortable with....imo individualism that has lead to blunt egoism.
    Last edited by Northener; 04-12-21 at 22:20.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I've said it before and I'll say it again...don't know why France is singled out. Other countries in Europe are more anti-vax.

    As for me, I've had two Moderna injections and the booster, but I'm not comfortable with a mandatory vaccination for a disease with a fraction of 1 percent death rate and those mostly the elderly or those with pre-existing conditions who can easily get themselves vaccinated.

    I don't see any risk for myself if some 30 year old health care worker doesn't want to get the vaccine but is willing to wear a medical grade mask at work. Her risk to herself is minimal, to me almost non-existent.


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    Fact check-

    https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/cas...ers-and-spread

    Ontario Canada Covid spreading-





    Quote Originally Posted by Coriolan View Post
    How is that relevant to this discussion about vaccines?
    https://japan.kantei.go.jp/ongoingto...html#vaccine06
    Message from Minister Kono (June 8, 2021)
    • and never to treat those who have not received the vaccine in a discriminatory manner.

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    Israel---4th Covid vaccine application within 1 year?
    Israel plans second booster shots as Omicron forces new curbs worldwide


    Many scientists around the world believe that booster shots are key to limiting the severity of infection.
    "We are seeing a waning of protection against Omicron infection. This wave is growing in surprisingly high numbers... More than 80% of the panel supported this measure," Arnon Shahar, a doctor on an Israeli Health Ministry expert panel, told Israel's Army Radio of the second booster shot campaign.

    https://www.reuters.com/markets/euro...ns-2021-12-22/

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    I don’t know why they call this RNA shot a vaccine. The data seems clear that that it does not give one immunity, it does not stop the spread of infection, and multiple boosters are required to maybe give a bit more protection against the latest COVID-19 variant.

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    In the course of the catastrophic death rates and mismanagement by the government in Germany more and more civil rights where taken from the people.
    Even if it was controversial to forbid people to meet and go to school last year, it cannot be denied that it pushed down the Covid cases and death rates. Those action where effective against the virus.
    On the opposite the opening of schools, restaurants and free time activities like soccer matches and cinema raised the Covid cases and death rates dramatically.
    We know that vaccinated people are not 100% safe, they can transmit the virus, get sick and die. 50% of all tested Covid cases cases in the age group of the 18-59 years old people are vaccinated. In the age group of 60+ of age, 71% of the infected people where vaccinated. 48%of the people that had died of Covid in this age group where vaccinated. Source:https://www.swp.de/panorama/intensiv...-61175183.html

    Now completely idiotic rules where decided to get the Covid cases for the media propaganda down, like 3x vaccinated people don’t need to be tested anymore.
    A large percentage of those people will die in the future, if they are old and get infected.

    There is no way to live with the virus.

    They repeat the mantra that children are not responsible for the pandemic every week, but they represent the most infected group of all:https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/cor...r-kita-schule/
    Only a donkey would believe that they will not infect their school mates, parents and grandparents, or friends of the family.

    The actions taken by the government seem no longer to be made to get the Covid cases down and protect the people, but to distract from the catastrophic mismanagement and create a hateful climate against the people that are against the government plans.
    The media yesterday told us: “Without face mask and social distancing –Corona Protesters “
    Ah yes, that is exactly what the government tells the vaccinated peopleto do, meet without mask and social distancing in restaurants, bars, clubs, discos, soccer matches and all other kinds of free time activities.

    The most stupid thing is the blocking of an airway to a country, where a new variant is present. People fearing of not to get home, chaos at the airport and 3 days later they realize that this variant is already in their country. From the past we know that it will become dominant, all was just a waste of time and torturing of people.
    You cannot block a covid variant, if you not close all borders, all airways, test everyone that comes in and make a total lock down.

    The consequences of this is a massive resistance of a minority in all European states that have similar hilarious management tactics (By the media called Antivaxxer Movement)

    Now the government decided to ruin people that are not ready to get vaccinated, they don’t kill them directly, but they try to destroy their lives by impose fines, that ultimately lead to social and family conflicts. They said they don’t will jail people, but if the people cannot pay the fines, they will go to jail.
    There was also a discussion to exclude the unvaccinated from the healthcare system and pay private for a treatment.
    What also had already taken place in Germany law is that infected, unvaccinated people will no longer get money, if they must leave their work place for a few days in quarantine.

    Some days ago a nurse that faked her vaccination was presented by the mass media like a murder and is now charged with manslaughter. Please, how many children have killed their grandparents? How many vaccinated people had believed they cannot transmit the disease and killed people by infecting them? The one is a murder, because not vaccinated, the other goes to a restaurant and kills people with infections but is a nice person, because vaccinated and innocent. What a kind of moralist double standard.
    Every time you meet with people without a mask outside of your family, you must risk to kill somebody or get infected and killed. If you don’t want this, stay away, or always wear a mask. A mask protects you much better from the infection and the spreading then a vaccine.

    In eastern Germany where the people are generally more government critically and many live from the social welfare system, people marched in front of the house of a politician with torches.
    Now the politicians discuss if it will be forbidden to protest in frontof politician houses.
    Like always in post-war Germany, everything that is against the government will be compared to Nazis. The media often mentions the Anti Vaxxers together with Neonazis and portrays them as a homogeneous group of evil idiots.

    Now it is discussed that some social media platforms that are controversial like telegram will be censored or blocked in thefuture, to stop the networking of people that are against the government.
    There is a new law against hate on the Internet, but this law seems not tobe made for people to be protected from hate, but to ensure that politicians will be no longer threatened by their opponents and people that don’t like them.
    I personally got attacked on Internet comment sections or forums by people with death wishes or curses like :“I wish your family will have a deadly accident” and other stuff like “They should had killed your ancestors in the past” several times. The internet is generally full of hateful attacks today but the government is the last that cares about this.
    When it comes to politicians, other rules seem to count.

    Honestly, I feel like we are living in Russia now. Everyday massive media propaganda and denunciation of people, new laws against the right to protest and personal freedom.

    What will be the next after the compulsory vaccinations? The forced marriage to ensure the pension of the nation? If you don’t have children, you have to pay or go to jail?
    Forced job without choice, because you have to show solidarity and work forthe government like the economy needs it?
    Will all vaccines available in the future, (Ticks, Hepatitis, HPV, Flu,Rabies and so on) be forced on the people?
    Forced psychological/psychiatric treatment (Medication too) to restore the productivityof the economy?

    And now we have a new government that made so many promises to the people. Protecting the environment, creating social peace, make it for young employers easier to star a business, remove Hartz4, but no, they will not do this. The Green Party( Die Grünen) betrayed the whole Fridays for Future Movement and the young generation. The new kanzler Olaf Scholz lied to the people because he advertised himself with the statement that there will be no mandatory vaccination under his dominion.
    Now the rich can keep their status if they fall into the welfare system, live in a big house with Hartz4 and keep their money on the bank account. Families will get money to pay a slave, ah sorry, household helper that the woman is not kept away from working in a “real” job. Maybe an attractive and ideal new job for the future incoming migrants.
    There will be more money for students, who also most came from an academic background. Here in Germany students already get all kinds of discounts in the society, for example cheaper food in organic food stores, cheaper zoo or museum tickets, cheaper IT products and software or cheaper meals in restaurants.
    This does not help the underclass, but helps the rich to become more richand stay privileged. The eastern Germans will be “happy” about this. Where are the revolting upper class students on the streets?

    Can we do something against that we where betrayed by them? If you buy a product and it does not keep what it promises, you can give it back. But what can we do? Protest? No, it seems that even this will be forbidden in the future.

    And the reality for the people that want to get vaccinated is also not like the media portrays it. Now they have not enough places for people to get vaccinated and they have to wait very long. Some days ago my parents and I had to wait two hours to get the third vaccineat a mobile vaccination station, my mother couldn't stand anymore and we had to return and wait for their appointment at the doctor at the end of the month.
    How can they expect old people waiting so long in the cold?

    If a protest or a revolt is not caused by a foreign country for an agenda, then the state itself is responsible to end the protests in a humane way. And jailing people, suppress them, telling them hat they will socially and in the end physically die, is not a human way. It is the fault of the government that those people are not satisfied with the politics. The politicians and at the first place the new government is responsible for everything that happens now.
    When they are so smart and think that they are intellectual superior to the protesters, why aren't they able to negotiate with them?

    But what did the protests of the last years told us in France, in Belarus? In the end they mean nothing, we can jump around and shout, burn cars and garbage cans down, but we have no chance to change anything, they reign over us, the way they like it. No wonder, that violence seems to be the only option that remains now for many people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silesian View Post
    Fact check-
    https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/cas...ers-and-spread
    Ontario Canada Covid spreading-

    https://japan.kantei.go.jp/ongoingto...html#vaccine06
    Message from Minister Kono (June 8, 2021)
    [/LIST]
    Justin Tru-dope really messed up the vaccine rollout. Some of those "fully-vaccinated" people may have inferior quality vaccines (astrozenica), as well as inappropriately long waiting times in-between shots. Some have probably lost effectiveness by now.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    You also have to consider the severity of those cases. I personally know people triple-vaccinated with pfizer or Moderna that still got omicron. However it was alway very mild. The issue is, they can still pass it on to vulnerable people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doggerland View Post
    In the course of the catastrophic death rates and mismanagement by the government in Germany more and more civil rights where taken from the people.
    Even if it was controversial to forbid people to meet and go to school last year, it cannot be denied that it pushed down the Covid cases and death rates. Those action where effective against the virus.
    On the opposite the opening of schools, restaurants and free time activities like soccer matches and cinema raised the Covid cases and death rates dramatically.
    We know that vaccinated people are not 100% safe, they can transmit the virus, get sick and die. 50% of all tested Covid cases cases in the age group of the 18-59 years old people are vaccinated. In the age group of 60+ of age, 71% of the infected people where vaccinated. 48%of the people that had died of Covid in this age group where vaccinated. Source:https://www.swp.de/panorama/intensiv...-61175183.html

    Now completely idiotic rules where decided to get the Covid cases for the media propaganda down, like 3x vaccinated people don’t need to be tested anymore.
    A large percentage of those people will die in the future, if they are old and get infected.

    There is no way to live with the virus.

    They repeat the mantra that children are not responsible for the pandemic every week, but they represent the most infected group of all:https://interaktiv.morgenpost.de/cor...r-kita-schule/
    Only a donkey would believe that they will not infect their school mates, parents and grandparents, or friends of the family.

    The actions taken by the government seem no longer to be made to get the Covid cases down and protect the people, but to distract from the catastrophic mismanagement and create a hateful climate against the people that are against the government plans.
    The media yesterday told us: “Without face mask and social distancing –Corona Protesters “
    Ah yes, that is exactly what the government tells the vaccinated peopleto do, meet without mask and social distancing in restaurants, bars, clubs, discos, soccer matches and all other kinds of free time activities.

    The most stupid thing is the blocking of an airway to a country, where a new variant is present. People fearing of not to get home, chaos at the airport and 3 days later they realize that this variant is already in their country. From the past we know that it will become dominant, all was just a waste of time and torturing of people.
    You cannot block a covid variant, if you not close all borders, all airways, test everyone that comes in and make a total lock down.

    The consequences of this is a massive resistance of a minority in all European states that have similar hilarious management tactics (By the media called Antivaxxer Movement)

    Now the government decided to ruin people that are not ready to get vaccinated, they don’t kill them directly, but they try to destroy their lives by impose fines, that ultimately lead to social and family conflicts. They said they don’t will jail people, but if the people cannot pay the fines, they will go to jail.
    There was also a discussion to exclude the unvaccinated from the healthcare system and pay private for a treatment.
    What also had already taken place in Germany law is that infected, unvaccinated people will no longer get money, if they must leave their work place for a few days in quarantine.

    Some days ago a nurse that faked her vaccination was presented by the mass media like a murder and is now charged with manslaughter. Please, how many children have killed their grandparents? How many vaccinated people had believed they cannot transmit the disease and killed people by infecting them? The one is a murder, because not vaccinated, the other goes to a restaurant and kills people with infections but is a nice person, because vaccinated and innocent. What a kind of moralist double standard.
    Every time you meet with people without a mask outside of your family, you must risk to kill somebody or get infected and killed. If you don’t want this, stay away, or always wear a mask. A mask protects you much better from the infection and the spreading then a vaccine.

    In eastern Germany where the people are generally more government critically and many live from the social welfare system, people marched in front of the house of a politician with torches.
    Now the politicians discuss if it will be forbidden to protest in frontof politician houses.
    Like always in post-war Germany, everything that is against the government will be compared to Nazis. The media often mentions the Anti Vaxxers together with Neonazis and portrays them as a homogeneous group of evil idiots.

    Now it is discussed that some social media platforms that are controversial like telegram will be censored or blocked in thefuture, to stop the networking of people that are against the government.
    There is a new law against hate on the Internet, but this law seems not tobe made for people to be protected from hate, but to ensure that politicians will be no longer threatened by their opponents and people that don’t like them.
    I personally got attacked on Internet comment sections or forums by people with death wishes or curses like :“I wish your family will have a deadly accident” and other stuff like “They should had killed your ancestors in the past” several times. The internet is generally full of hateful attacks today but the government is the last that cares about this.
    When it comes to politicians, other rules seem to count.

    Honestly, I feel like we are living in Russia now. Everyday massive media propaganda and denunciation of people, new laws against the right to protest and personal freedom.

    What will be the next after the compulsory vaccinations? The forced marriage to ensure the pension of the nation? If you don’t have children, you have to pay or go to jail?
    Forced job without choice, because you have to show solidarity and work forthe government like the economy needs it?
    Will all vaccines available in the future, (Ticks, Hepatitis, HPV, Flu,Rabies and so on) be forced on the people?
    Forced psychological/psychiatric treatment (Medication too) to restore the productivityof the economy?

    And now we have a new government that made so many promises to the people. Protecting the environment, creating social peace, make it for young employers easier to star a business, remove Hartz4, but no, they will not do this. The Green Party( Die Grünen) betrayed the whole Fridays for Future Movement and the young generation. The new kanzler Olaf Scholz lied to the people because he advertised himself with the statement that there will be no mandatory vaccination under his dominion.
    Now the rich can keep their status if they fall into the welfare system, live in a big house with Hartz4 and keep their money on the bank account. Families will get money to pay a slave, ah sorry, household helper that the woman is not kept away from working in a “real” job. Maybe an attractive and ideal new job for the future incoming migrants.
    There will be more money for students, who also most came from an academic background. Here in Germany students already get all kinds of discounts in the society, for example cheaper food in organic food stores, cheaper zoo or museum tickets, cheaper IT products and software or cheaper meals in restaurants.
    This does not help the underclass, but helps the rich to become more richand stay privileged. The eastern Germans will be “happy” about this. Where are the revolting upper class students on the streets?

    Can we do something against that we where betrayed by them? If you buy a product and it does not keep what it promises, you can give it back. But what can we do? Protest? No, it seems that even this will be forbidden in the future.

    And the reality for the people that want to get vaccinated is also not like the media portrays it. Now they have not enough places for people to get vaccinated and they have to wait very long. Some days ago my parents and I had to wait two hours to get the third vaccineat a mobile vaccination station, my mother couldn't stand anymore and we had to return and wait for their appointment at the doctor at the end of the month.
    How can they expect old people waiting so long in the cold?

    If a protest or a revolt is not caused by a foreign country for an agenda, then the state itself is responsible to end the protests in a humane way. And jailing people, suppress them, telling them hat they will socially and in the end physically die, is not a human way. It is the fault of the government that those people are not satisfied with the politics. The politicians and at the first place the new government is responsible for everything that happens now.
    When they are so smart and think that they are intellectual superior to the protesters, why aren't they able to negotiate with them?

    But what did the protests of the last years told us in France, in Belarus? In the end they mean nothing, we can jump around and shout, burn cars and garbage cans down, but we have no chance to change anything, they reign over us, the way they like it. No wonder, that violence seems to be the only option that remains now for many people.
    I remember visiting my relatives in Eastern Germany when it was under Stasi control, quite shocking how the people lived in perpetual fear when coming from democratic British Columbia, Canada. There was a big difference in freedom, between East and West Germany. I would never have imagined to see Germany in the situation it is in now. The other day, I saw a underground type video from doctor in Israel- the authorities wanted to publicly mark unvaxxed people going into malls. I don't know if that is true, but quite surprising if it is, considering the triple vaxxed are spreading the virus and getting sick. Perhaps the next leg of the 3 leg stool to be taken out(1st leg being triple vaxxed can spread Covid) will be if the double, triple, quadruple, vaxxed become ill and/or require intensive ICU care with new Covid strains; we will have to wait and see.

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Justin Tru-dope really messed up the vaccine rollout. Some of those "fully-vaccinated" people may have inferior quality vaccines (astrozenica), as well as inappropriately long waiting times in-between shots. Some have probably lost effectiveness by now.
    About a month and a half ago, I was going to cave in and take the vector Johnson single shot, so I could get my passport, and play tennis indoors with my tennis club friends, during the winter months. There was a quality control issue, when the first Johnson came out. Then the health minister gave the green light for Johnson about a month ago.( some Ontarians were going to Manitoba and I even ran into a family that went to Texas to get the Johnson vaccine.) I inquired everywhere around my area for the 1 shot Johnson but no luck.

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    Jan 11-2022 numbers from Ontario Covid website.

    In hospital but not ICU
    Unvaccinated cases 552
    Partially vaccinated cases 123
    Fully vaccinated cases 1612

    IN ICU---
    172 partial or fully vaccinated/138 unvaccinated

    Unvaccinated cases 138
    Partially vaccinated cases 14
    Fully vaccinated cases 158


    No detailed information on vaccine type or count,, for example could be 1 2 3 4 total vaccines (example-mrna 2 vaccines plus 1 booster or 2 boosters) or Johnston 1 vaccine.

    No detailed information on the unvaccinated an if they suffer from complications from possible comorbidity.








  23. #198
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    In order to understand data like this you would need to know what percentage of the population is vaccinated. Given it's Canada I would say the vast majority.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    In order to understand data like this you would need to know what percentage of the population is vaccinated. Given it's Canada I would say the vast majority.
    Hope you and your loved ones get well soon.

    Ontario has a very high vaxx rate.
    Some of us sitting on the unvaxxed fence; have family that are double and even triple vaxxed. Some say you need to get double vaxxed(mrna)to stop the spread and or not end up in ICU. Yet at the same time they are saying that vaccinated people with 2 or 3 shots need to stop the spread and end up in ICU, by adding a fourth vaxxine booster ?
    Have there been any clinical trials with 3 or 4? What happens if you get a 3rd shot, then get Covid and recover. Then get mandated for a 4 shot? Will your immune system go hyper to the different spike proteins, possible clotting or heart inflammation?

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    I'm wondering what do you guys think, will the old normal ever come back? If so, when?
    I mean, there's plenty of countries with 90+% of vaccinated people, yet there's no end to the pandemic. And the end is nowhere near to be seen.

    I see no way how it would end either, since it seems so that after 10 weeks of the 3rd shot you're not protected as much anymore.
    And we knew from Lancet before that 3 months after your 2nd shot you spread COVID the same like you were never vaccinated at all.

    This disease is here to stay, just like the flu I believe.
    We're not going to get rid of it. And if we do, our immunities expire and IF we open borders one day people bring it back it and we go all over again.

    How can this end?
    Seems like an infinite cycle.

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