Health Anti-vaxxer movement strongest in France

As in the case of influenza, the vaccine against COVID has to be annual, one or two shots. It must be part of the vaccination schedule. Each year the vaccine must be adjusted to fight the dominant variants.
 
Duarte said:
As in the case of influenza, the vaccine against COVID has to be annual, one or two shots. It must be part of the vaccination schedule. Each year the vaccine must be adjusted to fight the dominant variants.
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You mean as a part of the vaccination schedule it has to be mandatory?
Why do you think a vaccination rate of a 100% instead of the 95% we have now is going to make a difference?
 
kile said:
You mean as a part of the vaccination schedule it has to be mandatory?
Why do you think a vaccination rate of a 100% instead of the 95% we have now is going to make a difference?
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The vast majority of deaths occur among unvaccinated people. In this sense, a vaccination passport must be required, as in the city of Rio de Janeiro, where I spent New Year's Eve. Those who do not have a vaccination passport cannot stay in hotels, cannot go to restaurants, cannot visit tourist attractions, cannot go to concerts, sports shows, etc.
 
Duarte said:
The vast majority of deaths occur among unvaccinated people. In this sense, a vaccination passport must be required, as in the city of Rio de Janeiro, where I spent New Year's Eve. Those who do not have a vaccination passport cannot stay in hotels, cannot go to restaurants, cannot visit tourist attractions, cannot go to concerts, sports shows, etc.
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Is that correct? I remember when I looked at the data, vaccinated people
compromised around ~70% of the hospitalized. <br>Yes, the unvaccinated are
~10% of the population and compromise 30% of the hospitalized. <br><br>It shows
that mandatory vaccination wouldn't change anything much. If the risk is
x3 for the unvaccinated, that 10% of the unvaccinated compromise 30% of
the hospitalized, so you'd just have a less than a third decrease.
<br>Instead of 10 000 deaths, you get 7000. <br><br>That third makes the difference for the removal of all
other measures?<br><br> Let's humor the idea and say people don't die anymore when the remaining 10% are vaccinated. <br><br>The immunity of the 100% vaccinated expiry date is 10 weeks.
How does the old normal start if protection starts expiring in 10 weeks time?<br><br> Do we mandate booster shots 4 times a year (every 3 months) until death of the citizens?
From 18 years of age to 80, 248 shots?

There will never be old normal until they give up on protection one day in the future.
 
kile said:
<br>
<br>
<br>
Is that correct? I remember when I looked at the data, vaccinated people
compromised around ~70% of the hospitalized. <br>Yes, the unvaccinated are
~10% of the population and compromise 30% of the hospitalized. <br><br>It shows
that mandatory vaccination wouldn't change anything much. If the risk is
x3 for the unvaccinated, that 10% of the unvaccinated compromise 30% of
the hospitalized, so you'd just have a less than a third decrease.
<br>Instead of 10 000 deaths, you get 7000. <br><br>That third makes the difference for the removal of all
other measures?<br><br> Let's humor the idea and say people don't die anymore when the remaining 10% are vaccinated. <br><br>The immunity of the 100% vaccinated expiry date is 10 weeks.
How does the old normal start if protection starts expiring in 10 weeks time?<br><br> Do we mandate booster shots 4 times a year (every 3 months) until death of the citizens?
From 18 years of age to 80, 248 shots?

There will never be old normal until they give up on protection one day in the future.
Click to expand...

2 interesting points about insurance by 1) J Scott Davison, and boosters 2) Bloomberg-European Union regulators,

J Scott Davison, CEO of insurance company OneAmerica


"Davison said that his company is seeing the highest........ he’s ever seen before since he started in the insurance business. "

"“Just to give you an idea of how bad that is, a three-sigma or a one-in-200-year catastrophe would be 10% increase over pre-pandemic,” he said. “So 40% is just unheard of.””

By
Irina Anghel

January 11, 2022, 12:10 PM ESTCorrectedJanuary 12, 2022, 12:27 PM EST

"European Union regulators warned that frequent Covid-19 booster shots..... "
 
kile said:
<br>
<br>
<br>
Is that correct? I remember when I looked at the data, vaccinated people
compromised around ~70% of the hospitalized. <br>Yes, the unvaccinated are
~10% of the population and compromise 30% of the hospitalized. <br><br>It shows
that mandatory vaccination wouldn't change anything much. If the risk is
x3 for the unvaccinated, that 10% of the unvaccinated compromise 30% of
the hospitalized, so you'd just have a less than a third decrease.
<br>Instead of 10 000 deaths, you get 7000. <br><br>That third makes the difference for the removal of all
other measures?<br><br> Let's humor the idea and say people don't die anymore when the remaining 10% are vaccinated. <br><br>The immunity of the 100% vaccinated expiry date is 10 weeks.
How does the old normal start if protection starts expiring in 10 weeks time?<br><br> Do we mandate booster shots 4 times a year (every 3 months) until death of the citizens?
From 18 years of age to 80, 248 shots?

There will never be old normal until they give up on protection one day in the future.
Click to expand...

The data must be analyzed from another perspective, like did the health authorities in Rio de Janeiro report:

The mortality rate from covid-19 in the month of December in the state of Rio de Janeiro was almost triple among unvaccinated people compared to those who received a dose of the immunizer. The data were released this Tuesday (January 4, 2022) by the State Health Department of Rio de Janeiro.

Among those vaccinated with at least one dose, the mortality rate was 0.14 deaths per 100,000 inhabitants in December. In the case of the unvaccinated, the proportion rises to 0.52 per 100,000.


In December, the state of Rio de Janeiro recorded 32 deaths from covid-19, 20 of which in people who took at least one dose of the vaccine. These deaths occurred in a universe of more than 12 million inhabitants who took at least one dose of vaccines in the state. Among the unvaccinated, there were 12 deaths in a universe of about 4 million people.

Despite the President of Brazil be a notorious anti-vaxer person, he does not have the authority to decide on health issues at the level of States and Municipalities. At least in this regard the federation works well.
 
So, you just repeated what I already claimed.

Unvaccinated are at x3 risk of being hospitalized than the vaccinated.

Since we have countries which are 90% vaccinated with the new normal, the remaining 10% compromise around 30% of the hospitalized. If they get vaccinated the hospitalization rate will decrease by less than a third.

If you had 10 000 deaths, now you'd have 7000.

Nothing is solved.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Eupedia Forum mobile app
 
The problem with the whole studies that have been done is that they are not build on a good concept.

If one wants real data, you would have to infect 20.000 people with the virus. 10.000 vaccinated, 10.000 placebo. Only this would give you the real data how many will be infected, die, how mild or hard their illness will progress.
The real world is not a good testing lab, because many social and economic factors play a role if one gets infected or not.

When one searches for participants for a study, they will be likely more carefully, because they fear the virus. An Anti-Vaxxer will not participate in a vaccination study.

When it comes to the real population, unintelligent vaccinated people will not practice social distancing and will not wear a mask, if they where not forced to. They believe they are immortal. They will go to restaurants and events and will get more infected, then the people who fear the virus and the vaccines.

Then there is the problem with families. Children have the highest incidence and it is very likely that they will infect their parents and grand parents. They cannot wear a mask all day at home.

The Anti-Vaxxers who no not believe in the virus or think it is harmless, will also not practice the security rules and they will meet with everyone, even infected people to get the legal status of a recovered person.

Itis very likely that in the group of adults and old people, stupid vaccinated people, families with children and Anti-Vaxxers will have the highest incidence.

In my social environment there is a change going on, some people that are vaccinated twice refuse to get another shot, because they do not believe in the vaccines efficiency anymore. They fear that their immune system will be ruined when they will be forced to take a shot every 3 months.

Another thing that I noticed is a problem at the testing stations. Healthcare workers know how to do the test correctly, but the private companies that are running testing stations too, do not have good employees and they cannot participate the test correctly.
People will get false negative results and create spreading events.
 
It is a viable concern.
I would not take 428 Ibuprofens.
Would you?

There seems to be no other option either to take a booster shot every 3 months (428 times from age 18 to 80) or to completely abandon the concept of protection and let people who want to get vaccinated do it and those who don't, don't.
 
With different vaccines and different vaccine counts including 1 or 2+ boosters. Here is a helpful website I found on Substack for the vaccinated. All batch's are not the same.

https://www.howbadismybatch.com/


Batch codes and associated deaths, disabilities and illnesses for Covid 19 Vaccines
 
This morning the Mass Media in Germany crossed the red line: The protesters where described as a new form of Public Enemies(Staatsfeinde) that are neither left or right. Public Enemies? What?

The new government is the worst corona management company ever. Highest infection rate of all times today. Critique is not wanted anymore? I think the state failure is obviously.
The only answer they have is more and more restrictions, but those restrictions don’t work, because they are not decided by reason, but political/moralist/economic decisions. They target the people, not the virus.

Seems like the German Government is now the greatest Citizen Enemy.
 
If you have a look at Israel and Singapore their graphs on covid contagion are parabolic. Efficacy is not anywhere near the original sell of 90 percentile +/-. This despite, social distancing, lockdown, mandatory passport discrimination to daily life, where I,m at #4 is being started for the AIDS type patients, that is people who have a weakened immune system (I don't know if HIV AIds falls in this 3 or 4 covid shot category or if the vaccine is the same for treating regular degraded immune defiency type covid infections.
 
Now, we need to take the 3rd booster shot. I cannot enter coffee/restaurants without 3rd booster.
 
When does it end 4,5,6...? Perhaps a little glimmer of light, the game changer might be the high R naught replication of Omicron - a milder upper airway infection- by rapidly displacing lethal Delta strain- group immunity for Covid might come about very soon for many areas. Perhaps due to the high R naught value, the old time tables change, all the extra boosters will not be needed(cannot keep up to each individual tailored strain), as well as PPE N95/non 95n masks, goggles, identity QR passports, social distancing, lockdowns. Maybe we will be done here in Ontario by end of Jan/ Feb, hopefully everything will go back to completely being normal.
 
Silesian said:
When does it end 4,5,6...? Perhaps a little glimmer of light, the game changer might be the high R naught replication of Omicron - a milder upper airway infection- by rapidly displacing lethal Delta strain- group immunity for Covid might come about very soon for many areas. Perhaps due to the high R naught value, the old time tables change, all the extra boosters will not be needed(cannot keep up to each individual tailored strain), as well as PPE N95/non 95n masks, goggles, identity QR passports, social distancing, lockdowns. Maybe we will be done here in Ontario by end of Jan/ Feb, hopefully everything will go back to completely being normal.
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There is no such thing as going back. It will only keep getting worse.
 
I doubt it will get worse. The trajectory with most viruses is that they get less dangerous with time. Let's hope this sticks to that pattern.

As to the Omicron variant, it is definitely milder, but it is no joke, either. I've had the flu, and this thing is worse, although doubtless different people have different reactions. My son shrugged it off in three days, although they weren't a pleasant three days.

After my flu experience, I get the flu shot every year. I have no problem with getting a covid shot every winter.

What annoys me is the misinformation and hyperbole on both sides of this issue. The "vaccine" is not like the measles or mumps vaccine, which confers lifetime immunity, and probably one cannot be created against a SARS virus. Fauci and the WHO should have said that from the beginning, and emphasized it would work in that way for a certain amount of time, and would mitigate symptoms. Instead, they made hyperbolic claims for it, and that just fueled distrust and skepticism.

On the other hand, some of the anti-vaccers, I'm sorry to say, seem hysterical to me. Hundreds of millions of people have taken the shot and it's harmless for all but a tiny percentage. Hell, if some of these people looked up the side effects of aspirin or ibuprofen they'd never take another tablet again, which in my opinion is ridiculous. Most women wouldn't be able to get through their monthly menstruation without ibuprofen, or at least wouldn't want to, or how about those of us prone to migraines, or older people who take half an aspirin a day to ward off heart attacks. Am I going to suffer through migraines because I fear I might be the 1/100th of a percent of the population who might have a problem with it? No thank-you.

This damn thing was bad enough as it; I don't even want to imagine how bad it might have been without the vaccine.
 
Angela said:
I doubt it will get worse. The trajectory with most viruses is that they get less dangerous with time. Let's hope this sticks to that pattern.

As to the Omicron variant, it is definitely milder, but it is no joke, either. I've had the flu, and this thing is worse, although doubtless different people have different reactions. My son shrugged it off in three days, although they weren't a pleasant three days.

After my flu experience, I get the flu shot every year. I have no problem with getting a covid shot every winter.

What annoys me is the misinformation and hyperbole on both sides of this issue. The "vaccine" is not like the measles or mumps vaccine, which confers lifetime immunity, and probably one cannot be created against a SARS virus. Fauci and the WHO should have said that from the beginning, and emphasized it would work in that way for a certain amount of time, and would mitigate symptoms. Instead, they made hyperbolic claims for it, and that just fueled distrust and skepticism.

On the other hand, some of the anti-vaccers, I'm sorry to say, seem hysterical to me. Hundreds of millions of people have taken the shot and it's harmless for all but a tiny percentage. Hell, if some of these people looked up the side effects of aspirin or ibuprofen they'd never take another tablet again, which in my opinion is ridiculous. Most women wouldn't be able to get through their monthly menstruation without ibuprofen, or at least wouldn't want to, or how about those of us prone to migraines, or older people who take half an aspirin a day to ward off heart attacks. Am I going to suffer through migraines because I fear I might be the 1/100th of a percent of the population who might have a problem with it? No thank-you.

This damn thing was bad enough as it; I don't even want to imagine how bad it might have been without the vaccine.
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Well, the difference is you don't take 430 aspirins in your lifetime. And this is probably harsher than a pill in affecting the human body.

It should of been treated as the flu from the beginning.
Here's a vaccine, take it during the winter if you want, if you don't, why would I care?
Take it 10 times if you want, idgaf.
That's it.
No lockdowns, no mandates.

Because we are going to get there anyways and all the things we did, economies we ruined is going to be in vain.
 
I do get your point, but some years I've probably taken 200 ibuprofen a year. Just sayin. :)

Furthermore, you can't judge ALL of Covid by looking at Omnicron. We have a member here who had the original and now has gotten Omnicron, and they're two very different beasts. A lot of people who were very anti-vax had a different point of view after they got the first variant.

The biggest anti-vax proponents are often the ones who were either lucky enough not to get it or had enough natural immunity that they got very mild symptoms. I've never heard of anyone who got a terrible case running around telling other people not to get vaxxed.

I've had two abscesses in my teeth. First time my dentist was very unsympathetic, made me wait for two days to see him until I practically had hysterics. It was so bad that when I finally saw him he had to lance my gum and do other unpleasant things because anti-biotics alone wouldn't have worked. Second time he saw me on a Sunday afternoon as an emergency. When I remarked on the change he said he'd gotten one in the interim and was in so much agony he was popping not only the strongest anti-biotics on the market but the strongest pain pills as well.

I'm reminded of that when I see those youtube videos of men trying those menstrual cramp and childbirth simulators. Wimps! :)

Sometimes, in order to understand the severity of a situation you LITERALLY have to stand in the other person's shoes, and that's more true of some people than others.

I also think that if I knew someone was unvaccinated and he was working in my 88 year old great-aunt's nursing home I'd want him fired.

Your rights over your own body stop when they infringe on my body or the body of those I love. So, if someone wants to become addicted to alcohol or drugs and ruin his health and shorten his life, it's his choice, imo; however, if he gets behind the wheel of a car that's when I have a problem with it.

So, I judge things on a case by case basis. Measures that were contemplated when the variant was very virulent and we didn't know how to handle it or which people might me particularly vulnerable are not, imo, appropriate now. If we get one that's both virulent and as contagious as omnicron, then that's a different story.
 
Ofcourse.
People working with risky groups need to take tests to be sure they aren't putting their lives at risk.
As any other disease, COVID can be fatal for the sick and the elderly.

Measures that were contemplated when the variant was very virulent and we didn't know how to handle it or which people might me particularly vulnerable are not, imo, appropriate now.
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I wouldn't agree with this.
Vaccination rates in my part of the country aren't very good, and most people I know that have the COVID Passport have gotten it by getting COVID. Plenty before Omicron existed. I know at least 20 people that have gotten over it. The statistics also support the idea that it's like any other illness. The official death rates of COVID were 1.9%, while the flu has a death rate of 1%. In the same time it's admitted that everyone who died while tested positive for COVID is counted in that death rate, while the same case is not being made for the flu. Meaning the disease is a lot less deadly than it's being made out to be. I have never met someone doing power lifting while having the flu. You're in your bed, not able to move. With COVID, plenty of them. It's not a joke though, a disease is a disease but it's a disease like any other. Nothing worse than others either.

What's going on in the west is insane for me. Unsustainable.

If we're doing this for COVID, we should do lockdowns every winter as well to stop the spread of the flu. It's inconsistent.
 
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