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Thread: 'Albanian YDNA Project' 2020 analysis of J-PH1751 & 2018 Description of R-2705

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Heredotus had ears and a mouth - he can communicate with people that ran into thracians who described what they looked like to him
    Next you will say ancient greeks werent short, dark skinned and black haired even though every single ancient historian says it even ancient greeks themselves and the romans
    What Herodotus did is listen to the stories of the equivalent of itinerant tradesmen not scientists or historians or statisticians. If those tradesmen encountered 2-3 red headed Thracians they immediately assumed all Thracians were red-headed. Only genetic analysis will determine the percentage of red headed people in ancient Thrace.

    The same thing with stature. Measurements of skeletons particularly of younger people will determine how tall or short the Greeks were vs the Illyrians vs the Romans vs the Dacians. Or whether they were black haired or purple. By the way, modern Greek males are 178cm tall where as Albanian males are 174. People from Herzegovina are the tallest at 185.2 cm followed by the Dutch at 183.8 and the Montenegrins at 183.2.
    Last edited by bigsnake49; 10-07-21 at 22:51.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    Northern Italians have plenty of blue eyes and they are very close to Illyrians. It's impossible they didnt have plenty. Besides, plenty of Albanians have blue eyes, so I don't understand your point here.
    If they did have more redheads/blue eyes that was due to some selective breeding, as they were more to the Southeast of Illyrians genetically and had lot more of Bronze Age Anatolian ancestry as well.
    In a way I agree, so who gives a damn about all those useless peoples anyway. Had they been any good they would have conquered or pillaged the Rome. Celts at least managed that, when the Romans were weaker. For ex. the great deeds that Huns have done in a century are 10 times more valuable and impressive than anything Illyrians have done in their history.
    Whatever he managed to ravage, he was not able to wipe out the Dacians, far from it. There were still Free Dacian tribes attacking the Romans in 2nd, 3rd century AD, some even penetrating deep South into Roman lands causing devastation. So if anything Romans smashed Illyrians, Thracians, they did not smash Dacians. They took just part of Dacia, and they had to leave it after only 160-170 years. Immediately as they left, some Dacian tribes actually returned to the area.
    Romans didn't expand to Eastern Europe, they left part of the Dacia they took over after just 160 years.. So strong diversity of E-V13 in those areas cannot be Illyrian related but Dacian related. Few Illyrian related movements are represented by the true dominant Illyrian hg: J-L283, not the E-V13 lol.
    Youre making more nonsense up, first of all north italians have a lot of german dna that came thousand years after roman empire was created. Also original romans werent blondes and yes there are blondes in albania and blue eyes but its likely from ostrogoths or possible early german/illyrian mix however red hair is near non existant in albanians yet almost 30% v13 which means thracians could never have been majority v13. North italians have very little y dna similarity with illyrians as they have a lot of german dna and we havent figured out what illyrians carried yet anyway.

    Romans not only expanded to eastern europe but as history and even modern times tell us they actually moved citizens there and even managed to keep the latin language after the huge south slavic invasion. It is likely that not only romania but also bulgarian region spoke latin before south slav arrival, romania still does today. Dacians were almost completely replaced and definitely outnumbered twice, first by roman citizens and then by south slavs.

    Show me a database of romanian y dna to showcase this great density and diversity of v13 - some of which was definitely placed there by foreign sources - dont forget even greeks have plenty of v13 and they were neighbours to thracians

    You dont know what y dna lines illyrians carried, you wont even accept what the ancient greeks and romans say about the people that lived at the time

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parapolitikos View Post
    Kukes 3/26=11.5%
    Elbasan's Gramsh district: 1/10=10%
    Elbasan's Librazhd district 1/25=4%
    Tirana district= 3/60=5%
    Berat district=2/35=5.7%
    Kruje district= 1/16=6.6%
    Bulqize district=1/60=1.6%
    Devol district=1/8=12.5%
    My guess is that all districts close to the border with FYROM have similar rates but cause the samples were too small M123 statistically failed to register in most of them.
    Kukes district as it happens also has 15% R1a like Arbereshe.
    Why are you making numbers up again, i gave you the link already. And quit using small skewed figures to make shit up

    Kukes has 5% r1a and it will probably go lower with more results, arbereshe had over 10%. 4% em123 compared to over 10% in arbereshe.

    Youre obviously a troll and/or just acting stupid calculating these percentages over tiny amounts of data

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    Well those Roman accounts have to be taken with a reserve, and partly they expressed the relation of a people in comparison to Romans. Romans also mentioned Illyrians as tall. It may be that Illyrians and Dacians were taller than Romans but not so tall in general, and that is what their archeological records indicate. Their skeletons are far more important than anything else.
    Are you some dark, short Albanian trying to find an ancient people like you?
    Being short is a bad thing.. Height is one out of many aspects of biological quality which despite the futile efforts of some modern day "left wingers", can be measured, quantified and directed, where more is better. I am also very "liberal" but I am and have always been an extreme Darwinist. "Taking pride" in being short is tantamount to taking pride in being an imbecile..
    Another troll. Makes fun of romans because he cant handle the truth - what they said is fact because they lived at the time whereas you are here in 2021 speculating and making shit up. You realise that these short romans dominated your so called tall ancestors wherever youre from

    Also, diet plays a bigger role than genetics in getting tall, americans were 170cm tall 100 years ago. Height doesnt determine a persons strength, it comes more from determination, grit and mental strength

    Where is the proof that a roman called illyrians tall? Dont say shit without backing it up, and im sure some of them were tall but they were never described as blue eyed redheads like thracians

    I am average height not that it has anything to do with the discussion, my grandad was blonde, more blonde than yours. I have cousins that are more blonde than yours but this has nothing to do with the discussion at hand so stay on topic

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Why are you making numbers up again, i gave you the link already. And quit using small skewed figures to make shit up

    Kukes has 5% r1a and it will probably go lower with more results, arbereshe had over 10%. 4% em123 compared to over 10% in arbereshe.

    Youre obviously a troll and/or just acting stupid calculating these percentages over tiny amounts of data
    Ah I can see now from where you confusion stems from. You conflate regions and districts with the same namet. And those ARE the data of rrenjett.Per district that is.
    Kukes region has 3 districts .
    One of them is the Kukes district.
    Onother one, of Kukes' districts, is Tropoje which has the highest consentration of Gheg genetics in Albania. Next door Kukes district on the other hand, in spite its proximity with Tropoje has among the lowest Gheg genetics(irrespective of the language they speak). Which are at odds with all northern Albanian districts minus the coastal areas.It seems Kukes district was one of the least affected from the Gheg migrations.Thus holds vital information of the North Albanian population before the arrival of Ghegs.
    You should study more the data of rrenjet instead of making baseless accusations.

    Ps the R1a rate in Kukes district is as I said 15%
    4/26=15.4%, and for E-m123= 3/26= 11.5% https://rrenjet.com/databaza-publike/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Parapolitikos View Post
    Ah I can see now from where you confusion stems from. You conflate regions and districts with the same namet. And those ARE the data of rrenjett.Per district that is.
    Kukes region has 3 districts .
    One of them is the Kukes district.
    Onother one, of Kukes' districts, is Tropoje which has the highest consentration of Gheg genetics in Albania. Next door Kukes district on the other hand, in spite its proximity with Tropoje has among the lowest Gheg genetics(irrespective of the language they speak). Which are at odds with all northern Albanian districts minus the coastal areas.It seems Kukes district was one of the least affected from the Gheg migrations.Thus holds vital information of the North Albanian population before the arrival of Ghegs.
    You should study more the data of rrenjet instead of making baseless accusations.
    Ps the R1a rate in Kukes district is as I said 15%
    4/26=15.4%, and for E-m123= 3/26= 11.5% https://rrenjet.com/databaza-publike/
    Youre an absolute troll picking and choosing small amounts of data to study. How can you study 26 males and claim anything from that, look at the hundreds of "gegs" and you will get the real picture

    There are probably small regions in greece with 50% r1a or em123 but no one cares when the figures are so small and irrelevant

    The gegs arrived thousands of years ago and have remained in north albania since - meanwhile most r1a, j2a and e-m123 is foreign and thankfully it is tiny amounts as gegs are the least mixed people in europe

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Youre making more nonsense up, first of all north italians have a lot of german dna that came thousand years after roman empire was created. Also original romans werent blondes and yes there are blondes in albania and blue eyes but its likely from ostrogoths or possible early german/illyrian mix however red hair is near non existant in albanians yet almost 30% v13 which means thracians could never have been majority v13. North italians have very little y dna similarity with illyrians as they have a lot of german dna and we havent figured out what illyrians carried yet anyway.

    Germanic autosomal admixture in Albanians is low, it is low in all the Balkans. Albanians have 25 % of Slavic autosomal admixture. Slavic admixed Albanians do not cluster autosomally with Illyrians, and Albanians without Slavic admixture also do not cluster well with them.


    Plus of course Albanians, Serbs, Greeks and all of Balkans have tons of Byzantine Medieval Anatolian ancestry, reflected in their phenotypes as well.




    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Romans not only expanded to eastern europe but as history and even modern times tell us they actually moved citizens there and even managed to keep the latin language after the huge south slavic invasion. It is likely that not only romania but also bulgarian region spoke latin before south slav arrival, romania still does today. Dacians were almost completely replaced and definitely outnumbered twice, first by roman citizens and then by south slavs.

    Fact is 0 out of 3 BA and MBA proto-Illyrians are E-V13 and 5 out of 7 historical Daco-Thracians are E-V13. That alone makes all you write a pile of garbage.


    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Show me a database of romanian y dna to showcase this great density and diversity of v13 - some of which was definitely placed there by foreign sources - dont forget even greeks have plenty of v13 and they were neighbours to thracians

    Romanians are not well tested, and it requires lots of knowledge to draw their lineages from current sources. But why do you focus on Romanians? Bulgarians have as much as E-V13 in percentage as Albanians once Slavic admixture is adjusted for and they have more diversity under E-BY3880 on a lower sample.


    Thracians on Romanian soil i.e. Getae and Dacians were of Southern origin, arriving to Romania from the Iron Gates region and Bulgaria 1000-800 BC. That is why Getae were also more Southern genetically than Illyrians.


    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    You dont know what y dna lines illyrians carried, you wont even accept what the ancient greeks and romans say about the people that lived at the time

    They carried J-L283 which is 10 times more Illyrian than E-V13.. First they brought the Illyrian language unlike the E-V13 they assimilated on the Balkans, and judging by current ancient samples whatever amount of E-V13 Illyrians had, they had more of J-L283..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    Germanic autosomal admixture in Albanians is low, it is low in all the Balkans. Albanians have 25 % of Slavic autosomal admixture. Slavic admixed Albanians do not cluster autosomally with Illyrians, and Albanians without Slavic admixture also do not cluster well with them.


    Plus of course Albanians, Serbs, Greeks and all of Balkans have tons of Byzantine Medieval Anatolian ancestry, reflected in their phenotypes as well.







    Fact is 0 out of 3 BA and MBA proto-Illyrians are E-V13 and 5 out of 7 historical Daco-Thracians are E-V13. That alone makes all you write a pile of garbage.





    Romanians are not well tested, and it requires lots of knowledge to draw their lineages from current sources. But why do you focus on Romanians? Bulgarians have as much as E-V13 in percentage as Albanians once Slavic admixture is adjusted for and they have more diversity under E-BY3880 on a lower sample.


    Thracians on Romanian soil i.e. Getae and Dacians were of Southern origin, arriving to Romania from the Iron Gates region and Bulgaria 1000-800 BC. That is why Getae were also more Southern genetically than Illyrians.





    They carried J-L283 which is 10 times more Illyrian than E-V13.. First they brought the Illyrian language unlike the E-V13 they assimilated on the Balkans, and judging by current ancient samples whatever amount of E-V13 Illyrians had, they had more of J-L283..
    What about Illyrii proprie dicti, did they have E-V13?




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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    What about Illyrii proprie dicti, did they have E-V13?
    Those tested are from MBA Dalmatia and N.Albania. E-V13 was probably stronger in Southern Albania, south of Shkumbin river where a strong non-Illyrian population lived prior to their Illyrisation in Early Iron Age. Some evidence suggests this population was Phrygian.

    It is not likely V13 has strong association with "Illyrii proprie dicti", rather J-L283 should have it as it is strong in N.Albania. V13 more like with people such as Enchelei.

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    'Albanian YDNA Project' 2020 analysis of J-PH1751 & 2018 Description of R-2705

    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    Those tested are from MBA Dalmatia and N.Albania. E-V13 was probably stronger in Southern Albania, south of Shkumbin river where a strong non-Illyrian population lived prior to their Illyrisation in Early Iron Age. Some evidence suggests this population was Phrygian.

    It is not likely V13 has strong association with "Illyrii proprie dicti", rather J-L283 should have it as it is strong in N.Albania. V13 more like with people such as Enchelei.
    We know that:
    1. Illyrian proprie is a very late name from central Albania after 1200BC, probably a name of a tribe that Greeks contacted first.
    2. We know that E-V13 expanded in south Balkans and Albania after 1200 BC and probably is related with urnfield burials.

    So there is no prof that the people that were first called Illyrian had little E-V13, the opposite is more possible since they were located in Albania and had been impacted from urnfield culture, or maybe they were a subset of that culture.

    Phrygian have left after Bronze Age collapse.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    Germanic autosomal admixture in Albanians is low, it is low in all the Balkans. Albanians have 25 % of Slavic autosomal admixture. Slavic admixed Albanians do not cluster autosomally with Illyrians, and Albanians without Slavic admixture also do not cluster well with them.
    Plus of course Albanians, Serbs, Greeks and all of Balkans have tons of Byzantine Medieval Anatolian ancestry, reflected in their phenotypes as well.
    Fact is 0 out of 3 BA and MBA proto-Illyrians are E-V13 and 5 out of 7 historical Daco-Thracians are E-V13. That alone makes all you write a pile of garbage.
    Romanians are not well tested, and it requires lots of knowledge to draw their lineages from current sources. But why do you focus on Romanians? Bulgarians have as much as E-V13 in percentage as Albanians once Slavic admixture is adjusted for and they have more diversity under E-BY3880 on a lower sample.
    Thracians on Romanian soil i.e. Getae and Dacians were of Southern origin, arriving to Romania from the Iron Gates region and Bulgaria 1000-800 BC. That is why Getae were also more Southern genetically than Illyrians.
    They carried J-L283 which is 10 times more Illyrian than E-V13.. First they brought the Illyrian language unlike the E-V13 they assimilated on the Balkans, and judging by current ancient samples whatever amount of E-V13 Illyrians had, they had more of J-L283..
    Where are you getting these autosomnal BS - no one actually believes that nonsense, as you have seen south slavic y dna is low in albania - not close to 25%, it is only slightly more than common germanic lines. The v13 that was already in serbia also moved to romania and bulgaria with the south slavs after they became assimilated which would have increased levels there too - and even with that bulgarians still have much less v13 than albanians

    Show me the daco thracians that were v13 and give me the estimated year - MBA is a very long time - give me an estimated year before you try to "confirm" illyrian dna - we hardly have any ancient data at all for you to say nonsense like l283 was 10x more common in illyrians than v13 - l283 could still be pre illyrian people.

    It is also not possible for illyrians to be pure jl283 when they managed to be so widespread across huge lands in europe in late bronze age and same case for thracians and v13 - thracians were described as tall blue eyed redheads - probably related to scythians and mixed with celts. There is absolutely zero chance they were 100% v13 not even 50% is possible - ive already been through this. Where is proof that thracians were more southern genetically than illyrians considering actual historians described them as blue eyed redheads

    I would even say this is more likely for v13 people than blue eyed redhead thracians -
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midd...t)#Destruction

    Cultural similarities between illyrians and hittites - https://www.google.com/amp/s/at001.w...red-cults/amp/

    First double headed eagle (hittite)
    http://www.hubert-herald.nl/TwoHeade...n/image086.jpg
    Last edited by TaktikatEMalet; 13-07-21 at 02:31.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    Those tested are from MBA Dalmatia and N.Albania. E-V13 was probably stronger in Southern Albania, south of Shkumbin river where a strong non-Illyrian population lived prior to their Illyrisation in Early Iron Age. Some evidence suggests this population was Phrygian.
    It is not likely V13 has strong association with "Illyrii proprie dicti", rather J-L283 should have it as it is strong in N.Albania. V13 more like with people such as Enchelei.
    Yet enchelei had nothing to do with thracians. The years in MBA are important, just saying MBA doesnt mean anything. I have no doubt that ancient greek people or others lived there prior to illyrian invasion, but we dont have any facts to suggest illyrians were pure l283 or pure v13. You are here suggesting that v13 existed in western balkans prior to l283 yet we have no evidence to prove that yet

    It is also possible that l283 wasnt a densely populated line in late bronze age but survived in mountains and expanded later on following wars/death of other lines

    Something else which can be debated is the origins of the dardani, a few suggest they may have originally been thracians instead of illyrians which could explain the mix of l283, z2103, v13, r1a etc in western balkans as they absorbed some illyrian land/tribes

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    What Herodotus did is listen to the stories of the equivalent of itinerant tradesmen not scientists or historians or statisticians. If those tradesmen encountered 2-3 red headed Thracians they immediately assumed all Thracians were red-headed. Only genetic analysis will determine the percentage of red headed people in ancient Thrace.

    The same thing with stature. Measurements of skeletons particularly of younger people will determine how tall or short the Greeks were vs the Illyrians vs the Romans vs the Dacians. Or whether they were black haired or purple. By the way, modern Greek males are 178cm tall where as Albanian males are 174. People from Herzegovina are the tallest at 185.2 cm followed by the Dutch at 183.8 and the Montenegrins at 183.2.
    And no one actually knows which ancient people have been measured. What we do know is that the ancient greeks were short, dark skinned and black haired as described by themselves and the romans. The romans werent tall either and werent blonde - these are facts that are written down in history.

    That data is probably outdated as albanians are usually taller than 174cm now as the country has slowly become more wealthy. More money, better food (usually school years) generally equals more height. Albanians height is more due to living in communist regime and therefore kids not eating much when growing up. Americans were 170cm 100 years ago and dutch were amongst the shortest 150 years ago at 164cm

    Genetics play a small part but looks like nutrition even more as we find plenty of tall greeks, arab, japanese etc now. It is possible that greeks are taller now due to having quite a lot of south slavic dna but again its also to do with nutrition. Africans are a good example as they are generally taller when born in europe/america instead of those born in africa

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    Anyone here from Rrenjet project ? I'd like to ask about a specific sample on Yfull.
    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    And no one actually knows which ancient people have been measured. What we do know is that the ancient greeks were short, dark skinned and black haired as described by themselves and the romans. The romans werent tall either and werent blonde - these are facts that are written down in history.

    That data is probably outdated as albanians are usually taller than 174cm now as the country has slowly become more wealthy. More money, better food (usually school years) generally equals more height. Albanians height is more due to living in communist regime and therefore kids not eating much when growing up. Americans were 170cm 100 years ago and dutch were amongst the shortest 150 years ago at 164cm

    Genetics play a small part but looks like nutrition even more as we find plenty of tall greeks, arab, japanese etc now. It is possible that greeks are taller now due to having quite a lot of south slavic dna but again its also to do with nutrition. Africans are a good example as they are generally taller when born in europe/america instead of those born in africa
    Since Albanians have very similar levels of steppe+slavic with (native) Northern Greeks if there are height differences between them specifically nutrition could be a reason though I don't know if there's been any Greek study about the diet and the caloric intake of the latter since their incorporation in the Greek state until now.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    you can write directly to Rrenjet for your question: https://rrenjet.com/ Kontakt: [email protected]; [email protected].
    or can send me your question in the inbox here in Eupedia.





    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Anyone here from Rrenjet project ? I'd like to ask about a specific sample on Yfull.
    Thanks!



    Since Albanians have very similar levels of steppe+slavic with (native) Northern Greeks if there are height differences between them specifically nutrition could be a reason though I don't know if there's been any Greek study about the diet and the caloric intake of the latter since their incorporation in the Greek state until now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Anyone here from Rrenjet project ? I'd like to ask about a specific sample on Yfull.
    Thanks!
    Since Albanians have very similar levels of steppe+slavic with (native) Northern Greeks if there are height differences between them specifically nutrition could be a reason though I don't know if there's been any Greek study about the diet and the caloric intake of the latter since their incorporation in the Greek state until now.
    Mediterranean people are more flexible developmentally and their growth is conditional to environmental factors. Naturally as the droughts created frequent cycles of food shortages that could last for years. Fetus and infants that would grow according to the food scarcity or not had better chances of surviving famimes and spreading their genes.
    Yet as food became more abundant with industrial agriculture on avarage Greeks gained 15-20 cm in the last 70-80 years. Young Greeks today probably avarage around ,1,80.
    An alternative explanation is that developmental regression was caused by the mainly plant based diets, or starvation mimicking diets followed for religious reasons (that last almost 60% of the year) and was reversed as milk , eggs and meat consumption increased and faithfulness to fasting periods waved down. So it was caused by nutrient deficient diets and not necessarily less quontities of food.

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    One of the skeletons excavated in Mycene was close to 180 cm and was rather sturdy meaning that the man was muscular possibly a warrior. There is a thread on this site that has references to the study.

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    Albanian J2a is very interesting, in particular J-L70, that has some Albanians with very old branches. They are together with Italians and Turks, but with very old MRCA’s. Wondering if some of their ancestors came with the Romans or were in the Balkans long before, coming from Anatolia. It looks like they could have come sooner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    One of the skeletons excavated in Mycene was close to 180 cm and was rather sturdy meaning that the man was muscular possibly a warrior. There is a thread on this site that has references to the study.

    The confirmed skeleton of King Philip II of Macedon, the father of Alexander the Great, was found several years ago. Measuring at a height of 1.80 cm (around 6 feet) he was a pretty tall fellow.

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    As of now J2a in Albania seems to have a bronze age distribution and surprisingly does not seem to have clades in common with Greeks. It has a descent distribution/presence from south Albania up to Tirana region.
    Youl can find more samples than in Yfull for albanians at this project: www.rrenjet.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    Albanian J2a is very interesting, in particular J-L70, that has some Albanians with very old branches. They are together with Italians and Turks, but with very old MRCA’s. Wondering if some of their ancestors came with the Romans or were in the Balkans long before, coming from Anatolia. It looks like they could have come sooner.

  21. #146
    Regular Member
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    Country: Albania



    Inbox not working :)

    sample is from Libohova, south Albania.
    Seems to be rare in the Albanian population and balkans as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Anyone here from Rrenjet project ? I'd like to ask about a specific sample on Yfull.
    Thanks!



    Since Albanians have very similar levels of steppe+slavic with (native) Northern Greeks if there are height differences between them specifically nutrition could be a reason though I don't know if there's been any Greek study about the diet and the caloric intake of the latter since their incorporation in the Greek state until now.

  22. #147
    Regular Member cybernautic's Avatar
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    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Heredotus had ears and a mouth - he can communicate with people that ran into thracians who described what they looked like to him
    Next you will say ancient greeks werent short, dark skinned and black haired even though every single ancient historian says it even ancient greeks themselves and the romans
    Ancient Mycanaeans were dark skinned and black haired but not short rather medium in height.

    They got shorter after the intrusion of foreign Non Greek Balkanians such as Albanians

  23. #148
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    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    Anyone here from Rrenjet project ? I'd like to ask about a specific sample on Yfull.
    Thanks!



    Since Albanians have very similar levels of steppe+slavic with (native) Northern Greeks if there are height differences between them specifically nutrition could be a reason though I don't know if there's been any Greek study about the diet and the caloric intake of the latter since their incorporation in the Greek state until now.
    Greeks didnt grow up in communism and actually greeks have more south slavic y dna

  24. #149
    Regular Member cybernautic's Avatar
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    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Greeks didnt grow up in communism and actually greeks have more south slavic y dna
    Both Albanians and South Slavs have Greek Y DNA

    Greeks always liked mating with foreign women and Greek males are the most attractive white males

  25. #150
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    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Ancient Mycanaeans were dark skinned and black haired but not short rather medium in height.
    They got shorter after the intrusion of foreign Non Greek Balkanians such as Albanians
    Or persians, maybe romans. Unless you suggest that v13 is generally a shorter line and since greece has had plenty of v13 after mycaneans its what made them shorter? Other lines could be z2103 but it wont be l283 because that isnt common in greece

    Its more likely that with influx of intrusive "foreigners" to a settled region usually comes hard times so less food was available for kids

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