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Thread: 'Albanian YDNA Project' 2020 analysis of J-PH1751 & 2018 Description of R-2705

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Both Albanians and South Slavs have Greek Y DNA
    Greeks always liked mating with foreign women and Greek males are the most attractive white males
    North albanians have almost zero greek y dna, south slightly more - bulgarians/macedonians have some greek y dna but i dont think serbs have much at all

    Most greeks arent typically "white" so not sure what your point is here

    Reason why greece has more mixed y dna is because it was usually a more wealthy more civilized land so foreigners tend to prefer it, also it wasnt shut off from foreigners through communism - these things actually helped albania recently have less foreign y dna or at least in the north

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    North albanians have almost zero greek y dna, south slightly more - bulgarians/macedonians have some greek y dna but i dont think serbs have much at all
    Most greeks arent "white" so not sure what your point is here
    Anything attractive in South Slavic and Albanian men comes from Greeks without Greek contribution
    you would all look like this

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Anything attractive in South Slavic and Albanian men comes from Greeks without Greek contribution
    you would all look like this
    Haha comon, yes he is kinda ugly but i dont think too many albanians or south slavs look like that. There is absolutely no such thing as a nation that looks exactly the same not even 2000 years ago

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    'Albanian YDNA Project' 2020 analysis of J-PH1751 & 2018 Description of R-2705

    Quote Originally Posted by cybernautic View Post
    Ancient Mycanaeans were dark skinned and black haired but not short rather medium in height.

    They got shorter after the intrusion of foreign Non Greek Balkanians such as Albanians
    Beautiful conclusion. Albanians are responsible also for shortening Greeks. These discussions are infinitely hilarious.


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    Last edited by blevins13; 15-07-21 at 05:41.

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    Y slavic % among albanian is in average 15%. of course it changes with regions up or down. % is higher on the eastern regions and south albania bordering greece. Kukes reflects that average more or less, but it has more R1a and far less I dinaric compare to the national average though.
    Albanian have the lowest slavic % compare to other balkan nations. Even greeks are close to 25% of Y slavic dna.
    But I am missing the point in the conversation though.



    Quote Originally Posted by Parapolitikos View Post
    Ah I can see now from where you confusion stems from. You conflate regions and districts with the same namet. And those ARE the data of rrenjett.Per district that is.
    Kukes region has 3 districts .
    One of them is the Kukes district.
    Onother one, of Kukes' districts, is Tropoje which has the highest consentration of Gheg genetics in Albania. Next door Kukes district on the other hand, in spite its proximity with Tropoje has among the lowest Gheg genetics(irrespective of the language they speak). Which are at odds with all northern Albanian districts minus the coastal areas.It seems Kukes district was one of the least affected from the Gheg migrations.Thus holds vital information of the North Albanian population before the arrival of Ghegs.
    You should study more the data of rrenjet instead of making baseless accusations.

    Ps the R1a rate in Kukes district is as I said 15%
    4/26=15.4%, and for E-m123= 3/26= 11.5% https://rrenjet.com/databaza-publike/

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    Quote Originally Posted by TaktikatEMalet View Post
    Greeks didnt grow up in communism and actually greeks have more south slavic y dna
    The comparison I made was about autosomal dna, not Ydna. Could the latter which is not only applicable to males only but also is a miniscule amount of the total dna really be the sole or even the main reason for the differentiation of traits like height of 2 so similar populations (mainland Greeks, Albanians ) ? Nutrition as you said but also genetic heritability and environmental reasons sound -to me- more reasonable.


    On to the point , the correlation of nutrition with height, Parapolitikos made a very interesting comment on #141

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    Matzinger will soon publish a book on Illyrians: https://www.morawa.at/detail/ISBN-97...as/Die-Illyrer

    I am curious to know what he consider as ancestral cultural group to Illyrians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lacreme View Post
    The comparison I made was about autosomal dna, not Ydna. Could the latter which is not only applicable to males only but also is a miniscule amount of the total dna really be the sole or even the main reason for the differentiation of traits like height of 2 so similar populations (mainland Greeks, Albanians ) ? Nutrition as you said but also genetic heritability and environmental reasons sound -to me- more reasonable.


    On to the point , the correlation of nutrition with height, Parapolitikos made a very interesting comment on #141
    Sorry, I’m a bit confused here.

    Are you trying to say that Albanians and Peloponnesians are so
    similar yet Peloponnesians are taller?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjergj View Post
    As of now J2a in Albania seems to have a bronze age distribution and surprisingly does not seem to have clades in common with Greeks. It has a descent distribution/presence from south Albania up to Tirana region.
    Youl can find more samples than in Yfull for albanians at this project:
    Pure nonsense, just goes to show how much you know. ‘Himara Cluster’ will have matches in Greece, especially Crete. Some other clusters seem like just pure Vlah/Aromanian clusters, like Y24651 samples for example. Some came with Ottomans Etc…

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Well, you say ""Himara Cluster" will have matches in Greece, especially Crete". As of know they don't. If in the future they "will have" any matches that will connect them with ancient Greeks of course that should be pointed out. The same goes for most J2a clades that have been identified so far in the Albanian population through Rrenjet Project (www.rrenjet.com). And for this there is no need to argue with me. Look at results in Yfull. Argue with them.
    So for now lets stick to "conclusions" based on current facts and not "assumptions" based on wishful thinking.



    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    Pure nonsense, just goes to show how much you know. ‘Himara Cluster’ will have matches in Greece, especially Crete. Some other clusters seem like just pure Vlah/Aromanian clusters, like Y24651 samples for example. Some came with Ottomans Etc…

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    5 members found this post helpful.
    Something new that's more relevant to the thread

    Thanks to a Big Y-700 result at Gjenetika.com project, a new subclade "brother" to J-PH1751 was recently discovered/refined. The tester is with paternal origin from Northern Albania and forms a subclade with a fairly high TMRCA with tribes from Mirdita, defined by J-Y109700 or J-FGCLR1299 at FTDNA.

    This is another evidence that J-PH1751 didn't all of a sudden drop from the sky (like the OP suggests), as its brother clade can be found in northern Albania. Further, this would suggest the MRCA of J-PH1751 and J-Y109700, currently defined by J-Y20899 plus 15 other SNPs, was living in or near northern Albania some ~2100 ybp. And nevermind that there is two more ancient upstream splits found in Mat and Korçë.



    This can also be seen at YFull (https://yfull.com/live/tree/J-Y21045/). I see there is another newer sample under J-Y109700, more specifically under J-Y95198, that's closer to the J-Y85522 Mirdita samples. I'm guessing it's managed by "Rrenjet" as it's flagless.
    Last edited by Trojet; 17-07-21 at 15:00. Reason: fixed typo
    Y-DNA: J-L283
    Maternal Y-DNA: E-V13

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjergj View Post
    Well, you say ""Himara Cluster" will have matches in Greece, especially Crete". As of know they don't. If in the future they "will have" any matches that will connect them with ancient Greeks of course that should be pointed out. The same goes for most J2a clades that have been identified so far in the Albanian population through Rrenjet Project. And for this there is no need to argue with me. Look at results in Yfull. Argue with them.
    So for now lets stick to "conclusions" based on current facts and not "assumptions" based on wishful thinking.
    That whole cluster is not even 500 years old, and here you're talking about ancient Greeks. Do some research. There are similar haplotypes found among Greeks, it's a matter of testing them at the right resolution. Greeks are super under-tested compared to Albanians and other neighbouring populations.

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    Inventing cluster age out of the blue is not relevant to the conversation at hand.
    Even if that was the real age of the cluster, which is not, assuming that it will show up in more traditional greek areas is again an assumption not based on any specific fact other than the general fact that greeks are undertested. All J2a subclades that have done deep testing as of know from Albania, more than 10 of them at Rrenjet Project, don't have any close matches as of today with J2a in Greece. Zero out of ten is a pretty solid trend even for an undertested population like greeks.


    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    That whole cluster is not even 500 years old, and here you're talking about ancient Greeks. Do some research. There are similar haplotypes found among Greeks, it's a matter of testing them at the right resolution. Greeks are super under-tested compared to Albanians and other neighbouring populations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by broder View Post
    That whole cluster is not even 500 years old, and here you're talking about ancient Greeks. Do some research. There are similar haplotypes found among Greeks, it's a matter of testing them at the right resolution. Greeks are super under-tested compared to Albanians and other neighbouring populations.
    The people in Greece proper don't care at all. They are secure in themselves. Some of the Greek Americans and German Greeks have tested.

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    4 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    The people in Greece proper don't care at all. They are secure in themselves. Some of the Greek Americans and German Greeks have tested.
    Secure about what? You don’t really know till you know. Or they just don’t want to know.


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    Quote Originally Posted by blevins13 View Post
    Secure about what? You don’t really know till you know. Or they just don’t want to know.


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    I agree with you. He is indirectly hinting that Albanians are insecure, not realizing that before this DNA test peaking people were targeting Albanians with various crazy theories until they are reduced now to play around with subclades just like his countryman is doing with this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    I agree with you. He is indirectly hinting that Albanians are insecure, not realizing that before this DNA test peaking people were targeting Albanians with various crazy theories until they are reduced now to play around with subclades just like his countryman is doing with this thread.
    Ignorance is Bliss

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    Think that Albanians particularly the ones on this site are way too keen on proving that they are "pure" when everybody else is mixed and that they were here before everybody else. We really don't care. Some Greek guys on this site get a little too excited about these things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trojet View Post
    Something new that's more relevant to the thread
    Thanks to a Big Y-700 result at Gjenetika.com project, a new subclade "brother" to J-PH1751 was recently discovered/refined. The tester is with paternal origin from Northern Albania and forms a subclade with a fairly high TMRCA with tribes from Mirdita, defined by J-Y109700 or J-FGCLR1299 at FTDNA.
    This is another evidence that J-PH1751 didn't all of a sudden drop from the sky (like the OP suggests), as its brother clade can be found in northern Albania. Further, this would suggest the MRCA of J-PH1751 and J-Y109700, currently defined by J-Y20899 plus 15 other SNPs, was living in or near northern Albania some ~2100 ybp. And nevermind that there is two more ancient upstream splits found in Mat and Korçë.

    This can also be seen at YFull (https://yfull.com/live/tree/J-Y21045/). I see there is another newer sample under J-Y109700, more specifically under J-Y95198, that's closer to the J-Y85522 Mirdita samples. I'm guessing it's managed by "Rrenjet" as it's flagless.
    To me it seems just another case of a good candidate of late migration of a tribe into the region.
    Y85522 is find almost all in Pukes and Mirdita, where it forms around 10% of the lineages.
    There are several interesting facts conserning Y85522:
    A) almost all of the samples come from a region with a radius of 10miles, on the border of the two districts.
    B)The above alludes to extreme levels of purity in the areaswhich effectively are just the north and the east bank of a river, as populationwise the two areas form only a small fraction of the population of their respective districts they belong.
    C) The areas seem to correspond with the spread of the Spaçi clan.
    D) Some oral tradition of Mirdita'tribes speak of a migration into the region from an area near the Kosovo borders in the last 200years, but there too they had been immigrants moving there in post ottoman invasion era.Their ancestral land was elsewhere. Thus the 550 years TRMCA makes sense, as the fact that traces of Y85522are found in Kosovo. A small group of related males (,and logically their families)moved into the region few centuries back and became the progenitors of all Y85522 lines. All the samples from the region and the tribe seem to be Y85522. Still too small sample to be anywhere conclusive but the fact that in an quite large area all the samples are Y85522 is quite indicating . It mirrors the levels of ph1751 purity in Tropoje.

    Oral traditions speak of common origins of Mirdita'tribes with the tribes near the border with Montenegro, which yet other legendary sources place those tribes(or their common ancestors) origins deep inside Montenegro.
    It is very likely that the area from where the y85522 (or its precursors) heired it is also the area from where ph1751 stemed originally too.
    Last edited by Parapolitikos; 19-07-21 at 20:03.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Think that Albanians particularly the ones on this site are way too keen on proving that they are "pure" when everybody else is mixed and that they were here before everybody else. We really don't care. Some Greek guys on this site get a little too excited about these things.
    You can think whatever you want. I am not anyones ambassador, i represent myself only. I love reading about ancient history. And ancient DNA is proving people wrong on their previous assumptions including myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gjergj View Post
    Well, you say ""Himara Cluster" will have matches in Greece, especially Crete". As of know they don't. If in the future they "will have" any matches that will connect them with ancient Greeks of course that should be pointed out. The same goes for most J2a clades that have been identified so far in the Albanian population through Rrenjet Project (www.rrenjet.com). And for this there is no need to argue with me. Look at results in Yfull. Argue with them.
    So for now lets stick to "conclusions" based on current facts and not "assumptions" based on wishful thinking.
    I looked at rrenjet and saw the J2a-L70 samples, Y24651 and Z2148 sub-branches. They compare pretty well with what YFull has. These formed a long time ago, according to the MRCA estimates. There are Greeks in parallel old branches and sub-branches, including the Roman from late antiquity, having split a few thousand years ago (according to estimates). It looks at this point like these branches have been residing in the Balkans for a long time.

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    'Albanian YDNA Project' 2020 analysis of J-PH1751 & 2018 Description of R-2705

    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Think that Albanians particularly the ones on this site are way too keen on proving that they are "pure" when everybody else is mixed and that they were here before everybody else. We really don't care. Some Greek guys on this site get a little too excited about these things.
    New Albanian members might discuss this purity nonsense or being first, the old one (the few of them that have not been banned yet) do not discuss such nonsense, in general Albanians want to know, and it seems that are not afraid of any historical truth (including genetics history) no matter how hard.

    Can’t say the same for our neighbors.


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    Quote Originally Posted by gjergj View Post
    Inventing cluster age out of the blue is not relevant to the conversation at hand.
    Even if that was the real age of the cluster, which is not, assuming that it will show up in more traditional greek areas is again an assumption not based on any specific fact other than the general fact that greeks are undertested. All J2a subclades that have done deep testing as of know from Albania, more than 10 of them at Rrenjet Project, don't have any close matches as of today with J2a in Greece. Zero out of ten is a pretty solid trend even for an undertested population like greeks.
    It’s useless discussing with you topics that you can’t comprehend.

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    Yes. I agree. This is what the data shows as of today for J2a. Almost if not all results in Yfull with Albanian flags our our members. It seems that the distribution of J2a happened not later than LBA.
    What is interesting for J2a is that even though it has a low % in the population with a noticeable decrease of % from south to north, up to Tirana region it has very good diversity. North of Tirana the % and diversity decrease drastically.

    We still have a few members that need to test with higher resolution but its unlikely this will effect the trend we have seen thus far.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphie Boy View Post
    I looked at rrenjet and saw the J2a-L70 samples, Y24651 and Z2148 sub-branches. They compare pretty well with what YFull has. These formed a long time ago, according to the MRCA estimates. There are Greeks in parallel old branches and sub-branches, including the Roman from late antiquity, having split a few thousand years ago (according to estimates). It looks at this point like these branches have been residing in the Balkans for a long time.

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    Please. For us normal mortals the concept of "pure" is out of our grasp. Let us try to clarify and understand simpler things in this forum ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Think that Albanians particularly the ones on this site are way too keen on proving that they are "pure" when everybody else is mixed and that they were here before everybody else. We really don't care. Some Greek guys on this site get a little too excited about these things.

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