'Albanian YDNA Project' 2020 analysis of J-PH1751 & 2018 Description of R-2705

The movement of populations concurred with the collapse of Giorgos Kastriotis State, the Kastrioti-Ottoman war, and the Venetian Ottoman war.
All of them occurred in North Albania. Plus the Earliest settlement of Arbereshe were done by Kastriotis troops as a Reward for the Services he provided to the King of Napoli. The Date of establishment of the Towns tell us they were formed at the late state of the Venetian-Ottoman war.
By that time, Venetian Albania was essentially reduced to areas in Montenegro. Highly Unlikely that people from Southern Albania would Migrate, a century after the Ottoman conquest, that high up to find Venetian Ships to travel to Italy. Taking in mind how extended was the migration due to Ottoman barbarity (massacres-enslavement of civilians-selling of women a children to slavery), naturally the population movement followed the war lines, to the last safe heaven which were the Venetian Possessions around lake Shkoder.

As for Labs, they probably came from are settlement of Gheg militias in the region that mixed with the local population and expanded Islam.
The high presence of Bektashi, the religion of the Ottoman army, in the Region alludes that the region should have been a military center early on. A theory, yes, but what it isnt a theory is the the different Y-DNA profile between Muslims and non-Muslim Tosk Speakers.
Or even the Difference between Labs and Chams.
Labs and Chams have among the highest E-v13 rates(of the same Branch) in Albanian populations but are Radically different in much of the rest of the Haplogroups. At least based on the data to this point. A greater sample may differentiate the profile.So by what we have up to this point it's almost like the local population of each neighboring regions, which would have been fairly similar at some point in the not so long ago history, mixed in the last millennia with different populations each. Chams probably with Slavs, and Labs(aboriginal) with Ghegs.
View attachment 12732
But Go Ahead give me another explanation why they two Groups are so different.

Beautiful 🤩


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
Sincerely that this creepy psychopath Parapolitikos is still on this forum spreading this filth is why I left this forum.
 
What an absolute cesspool. Pathetic. Shame on moderation.
 
Sincerely that this creepy psychopath Parapolitikos is still on this forum spreading this filth is why I left this forum.

You get upset with so little. It is all good fun. It is a lot of noise for nothing really.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
In the Monasteries of Mezzojuso and Cantanzzaro you will find also the names of the families of the knight of Demetrius Reres... some of this names has not changed even today. These names very often show villages and places in Albania.

Reres expedition (1444 -1448).
Church Registers of Mezzojuso and Catanzaro:
B: Barbati, Barci (Barçi), Barcia (Barçia), Bardusci (Bardushi), Barlezi (Barleci), Balla, Barresi,
Barsetti, Bersi, Bidati, Bilotta, Blasco (Blasko), Boccula (Bokula), Borcì (Borçi o Borshi), Boria,
Borgia (Borshi), Borgi (Borxhi), Borshi, Braillo, Branciti (Brançiti), Brunarello, Bue, Buba,
Buccola (Bukola), Burrescia (Burreshia), Burnacasa (Burnakaza), Buschi (Buski ose Bushi).
C: Cacossa (Kakoza), Cacozza (Kakoca), Coccuzza (Kokuca), Calvaj (Kalvaj), Calfi (Kalfi), Calidaj
(Kalidaj), Camarda (Kamarda), Camera (Kamera), Camizzi (Kamixi), Candiota (Kandiota),
Carci (Karçi), Carnesi (Kamezi), Chiara (Kiara), Cicco (Çiko), Cirillo,Ciuglia (Çiulia), Ciulla
(Çiulla), Celejaro (Çelejaro), Comitascia (Komitashia), Conte (Konte), Costa (Kosta), Costantino
(Kostantino), Crapisi (Krapizi), Crepsi (Krepsi), Crialesci (Krijaleshi), Criesci (Krieshi), Crisia
(Krizia), Crispi (Krispi), Cucci (Kuçi), Cuccia (Kuçia), Curtichi (Kurtiki)
D: Damiano, Despoti, Dorengrichi (Dorengriki), Djanì (Xhani), Dragoti
F: Ferrante, Ferrara, Figlia (Filia), Foco (Foko), Franzi (Franci).
G: Ganaci (Ganaçi), Glaviano, Glesci (Gleshi), Glioscia (Gloshia), Gori, Greko, Groppa, Gulemi,
Golemi, Gugliotta (Gulota), Guzzetta (Guxeta).
J: Jers, Jessi
L: Lagresia (Lagrezia), Lala, Lecursìu (Lekurziu), Lesci (Leshi), Lescari (Leskari), Lojacono
(Lojakono), Lopez, Luca (Luka), Luci (Luçi), Lugli (Luli).
M: Macaluso (Makaluzo), Mancusi (Mankuzi), Manay (Manaj), Mandalà, Manesi, Manisi, Manisci
(Manishi), Masi (Mazi), Matranga, Mezzaracchio (Mexarakio), Mirditi, Mauro, Miceli, Minisci
(Minishi), Musacchia (Muzakia).
P: Parrino, Parrococchia (Parrokokia), Pachini (Pakini), Petta, Plescia (Pleshia), Pirri, Pravatà,
Proffera.
R: Rabalaj, Rafsi, Reppa, Rende, Rennis, Rennes, Rjebalati, Rùbesi
S: Scariani (Skariani), Sciglia (Skilia), Schirò (Skirò), Sochijpis (Sokjipis), Scurta (Shkurta),
Schioza (Shkoza), Staffa, Standila, Stanizzo (Stanico), Spata, Stassi, Sugli (Suli).
T: Teorga, Torga, Trajilla, Trapuzzano (Trapuxano), Thaminiti, Toja, Thana.
V: Vartusa, Veschio (Veskio), Vonazzo (Vonaco), Vrena, Vuoccola (Vuokola).
Z: Zacca (Zaka ose Xaka), Zaccheo (Zakeo), Zimbi, Zingana, Zenga etj.


https://books.google.al/books?id=OdK...zojuso&f=false



Sent from my ****** using Eupedia Forum
Very interesting.Someone should place the toponyms on a map. Of course a surname alluding to a region isnt anywhere near being conclusive evidence, but they can draw a general picture of their origins.
A future genetic study should have in mind those early settlements too, to be separately tested.
The different migration movements towards Italy were close enough chronologically, but later movements would be mixed bag ones, especially those that came via Peloponnese. Doubt just Albanians were included, yet alone from North Albania solely.
The first wave though was done voluntarily and they were recruited,logically, from North Albania where Kastrioti's state was based. If those settlements didnt incorporate any later movements of refugees, then they are valuable time capsules of Northern Albanian population before Ottomans ravage and destroyed the area in their war against Kastrioti and later on the Venetians.
 
Sincerely that this creepy psychopath Parapolitikos is still on this forum spreading this filth is why I left this forum.

I dont know what's creepy or psychopathic about discussing genetics attempting to explain the Data and always providing sufficient evidence to back up the claims, or the very least that the Questions that are raised are valid and not unfounded. Understandably one might be a little sensitive when discussing the genetics of his own Ethnicity, but ultimately the only thing that it is important is whether there is truth in the claims. We should discuss everything in good faith.
When i firstly put forward my theory, few years back, most Albanians on this forum protested and rejected it, using slurs and attempting to shut down the discussion.
Now it seems it has been adopted for the most part from the 2 genetic projects in light of the evidence they gathered.

But here is the question that you should ask yourself; What difference would it make , to you, or to Albania and Albanians in general, if it Ghegs indeed arrive late in the Albanian space?
 
i am aware of this paper who found 3% in albanians from fyrom
by the way the map you gave before about the arch you see is very correct :cool-v:
there is indeed 4% e-m123 in european turkey and also burgas province bulgaria ( that could be explained by turks who can left some signiture in bulgaria )


about rrenjet : here:


https://rrenjet.com/databaza-publike/


in the search option put m34


P.S
than you can see that they are diverse some are e-m84 some are e-z841:unsure:
some were even uploaded to yfull ....
but arbereshe language is more close to tosk not to ghegs?

Thanks! Very appreciated.
As for E-m123 in the Balkans. My Bet is that its presence in Thrace is old,and probably similarly old is its spread through out Balkans. An alternative explanation could be that it spread in the late antiquities and early medieval times with the (bulgarian) Slavs after they merged with the Thracian population.That theory would explain too why there isnt much in Albanians. The (giant ) problem with that theory is the very high presence in Apulia, and relatively high presence in Calabria and Sicily. On a first glance it seems that a continuum exists from Thrace to Sicily. A deeper clade analyses of Each region's m123 could conclusively affirm if the arch from Thrace to Sicily is a continuum or unrelated(aka Italian m123's source is different than the Balkanic one).
If the first case is correct, then m123 spread must have occurred probably much earlier than the Classical era. Messapian Colonization of Apulia alone occurred around the start of the first millennia BC, so one can use it as a starting point to guess how old it is in the Balkans.
 
So what is the claim here? That because Arbereshe who have been admixed for 500 years have low L283, then that means that 1400's North Albanians had no L283? But the admixture happened recently? Is this what you are saying?

Your whole discussion is not in good faith man. Since this whole thread is borderline insanity. I feel Johane there.

If you want proof to the contrary, if that is indeed your claim. Let me know. I shall provide.
 
How are we supposed to moderate if issues are not reported. Shame on you!

I reported this user many times because of his filth. He is the reason I left this forum. Cesspool.
 
What exactly is the problem here? I don't see anyone violating forum rules except for you, by calling people creepy and psychopaths. Do you just disagree with him? Is he using sophistry? If so, than point to some legitimate study that says otherwise.
 
What exactly is the problem here? I don't see anyone violating forum rules except for you, by calling people creepy and psychopaths. Do you just disagree with him? Is he using sophistry? If so, than point to some legitimate study that says otherwise.

Just as I thought, I am sick and tired of people trying to weaponize moderation to settle their disputes. If you disagree with someone, than it is up to you refute them.

Unless of course they are using false sources, or extremist propaganda; which will need to be verified.
 
The Rrenjet Project in fact has over 1,100 results thus far :) and around 800 of them are exclusively members only at Rrenjet and processed in companies FTDNA, YSEQ and Dantelabs. A similar database is also being put together of Mitochondrial lines in Albania, its only around 150 results thus far.
It seems that people are giving opinion on the origin of Albanians without basing their arguments on actual data.
Albanians have very good diversity of both E-v13, J2b2 and R1b-PF7563. It is clear based on the data that there is a continuation of bronze and IA male lines despite the fact that there is a strong genetic bottleneck that fits with the fall of the roman empire and slavic migration to the balkans.
There are now two projects from the Albanian archeologists in partnership with western counterparts on testing ancient remains from archeological sites in Albania. Preliminary results from one of these projects confirm this bronze age continuity for PF7563 and J2b2. Later this year or next year they will publish results.

Gjergj, do we know what sort of burial site these samples were found in? IE: What sort of inhumation they were in? Tumulus or something else. If you know the context would you please share?
 
Thanks! Very appreciated.
As for E-m123 in the Balkans. My Bet is that its presence in Thrace is old,and probably similarly old is its spread through out Balkans. An alternative explanation could be that it spread in the late antiquities and early medieval times with the (bulgarian) Slavs after they merged with the Thracian population.That theory would explain too why there isnt much in Albanians. The (giant ) problem with that theory is the very high presence in Apulia, and relatively high presence in Calabria and Sicily. On a first glance it seems that a continuum exists from Thrace to Sicily. A deeper clade analyses of Each region's m123 could conclusively affirm if the arch from Thrace to Sicily is a continuum or unrelated(aka Italian m123's source is different than the Balkanic one).
If the first case is correct, then m123 spread must have occurred probably much earlier than the Classical era. Messapian Colonization of Apulia alone occurred around the start of the first millennia BC, so one can use it as a starting point to guess how old it is in the Balkans.

the 6% e-m34 in apulia is not in all of this region
the samples came from a specific area called salento and among the non -greko there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salento

from this paper:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/suppl/10.1080/03014460.2017.1409801?scroll=top

The samples analysed in this study are from the southern part of the region, in particular from the Salento area, which is the peninsula that separates the Ionian from the Adriatic Sea. Two, samples were collected: one from the general population and one from the Grecìa Salentina (specifically from the municipalities of Calimera, Martano, Castrignano dei Greci, Corigliano d'Otranto, Soleto, Sternatia and Zollino), an area of particular interest since a neo-Greek dialect (Griko) is still spoken here. This peculiar characteristic makes Grecìa Salentina a significant linguistic isolate in the Italian Peninsula.

p.s
yes it is important to know the specific branch
but only wgs can do it and it is expensive for university to do it:unsure:
( that is why the turkish new samples is so much appricated it is an amazing effort)(y)
 
the 6% e-m34 in apulia is not in all of this region
the samples came from a specific area called salento and among the non -greko there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salento

from this paper:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/suppl/10.1080/03014460.2017.1409801?scroll=top

The samples analysed in this study are from the southern part of the region, in particular from the Salento area, which is the peninsula that separates the Ionian from the Adriatic Sea. Two, samples were collected: one from the general population and one from the Grecìa Salentina (specifically from the municipalities of Calimera, Martano, Castrignano dei Greci, Corigliano d'Otranto, Soleto, Sternatia and Zollino), an area of particular interest since a neo-Greek dialect (Griko) is still spoken here. This peculiar characteristic makes Grecìa Salentina a significant linguistic isolate in the Italian Peninsula.

p.s
yes it is important to know the specific branch
but only wgs can do it and it is expensive for university to do it:unsure:
( that is why the turkish new samples is so much appricated it is an amazing effort)(y)

Two samples? Kind of not enough to draw any kind of conclusions, right?
 
I am not particularly familiar with Y-DNA E-M123 but i associate it strictly with Levant, Natufian/PPNB derived lineages, they must be the original Pre Proto-Semitic people, either them or some E-M78 subclade, no other options.

But i fail to see the connection in any way with Albanians and Balkans in general. It's more logical to assume Arvanites acquired those lineages in South Italy/Sicily.
 
I am not particularly familiar with Y-DNA E-M123 but i associate it strictly with Levant, Natufian/PPNB derived lineages, they must be the original Pre Proto-Semitic people, either them or some E-M78 subclade, no other options.

But i fail to see the connection in any way with Albanians and Balkans in general. It's more logical to assume Arvanites acquired those lineages in South Italy/Sicily.

My personal experience (grew up in a 90% Arvanite town) is that Arvanites did not easily mix with the surrounding populations and that preserving the "fara" was very important to them. The Arbereshe in Southen Italy/Sicily were surrounded by Catholics on top of that.
 
Fallmerayer proposed that 50% of Peloponnese population in 15th century was Albanian. This theory can be refuted with with the lack of J2b in Peloponnese compared to Ghegs. But since J2b came to Ghegs with an alien invasion, Fallmerayer's theory is still up for discussion.

IMO, Tosks had 15% J2b before the Slavic and other components.
 
Two samples? Kind of not enough to draw any kind of conclusions, right?
table S6
6/102 5.9% e-m34
i never said that we can draw conclusion i don't think e-m123 is related to messapian tribe
in my opinion the source is late antiquity roman jewish or byzantine source:unsure:
p.s
yes hawk e-m123 source is levantine
grandfather e-z830 is natuffian:cool-v:
 
Last edited:
Fallmerayer proposed that 50% of Peloponnese population in 15th century was Albanian. This theory can be refuted with with the lack of J2b in Peloponnese compared to Ghegs. But since J2b came to Ghegs with an alien invasion, Fallmerayer's theory is still up for discussion.
IMO, Tosks had 15% J2b before the Slavic and other components.

Elaborate?
 

This thread has been viewed 51721 times.

Back
Top