'Albanian YDNA Project' 2020 analysis of J-PH1751 & 2018 Description of R-2705

Bro you are arguing with someone who thinks ph1751 is the only L283 branch in Albanians. Might as well argue with a rock.

Greeks Central Greece and Attica 9.5% j2b
Greeks Asia Minor and Aegean 5.&% j2b
Greeks Peloponesse 3.4% j2b (
Albanians in the Morea (Peloponnese) flee to Italy afterTurkish encroachments [FONT=&quot]1532–1533[/FONT]) https://www.slideshare.net/madopol/robert-elise-historical-dictionary-of-albania-2nd-editionpdf
Greeks Thessaly 9.7% j2b
Greeks Macedonia 5.7% j2b

Almost all European j2b is L283.
What is the use arguing with someone who doesn't even analyze the source he himself provides to make some point he already has in his mind. Usually you look at the data, analyze it then you make a point.
 
Well, according to The Rrenjet :

a) Labs have twice as much J2b(not just ph1751) as other Tosk.

View attachment 12653

(Note; Tosk should be taken in a geographic sense, aka a proxy for a South Albanian region with in the known linguistic divide borders.Whatever Gheg or Vlach populations settled in the area in the last Centuries they are by now long incorporated in the general population and adopted the accent of the majority.The only population that could(to a high degree) be held as representative of the original(albanophone) South Albanian population before the alleged(by me) movement of Muslim populations from the north into the south, are the Greek Orthodox Tosk. A comparison between them and Norther Ghegs would be meaningful, and would yield interesting and of great importance data that can be used to derive historical and ethnographic conclusions.)

b) with out the Labs, the remaining Tosk J2b rate is 5% compared to the Ghegs 20%. Again, J2b in general not just ph1751.
This is what i meant by taking in mind the different profiles or the religious minorities. As it is know Labs are exclusively Muslim, which may hints to the origins of the dominant group in the area(that then mixed with locals), whereas most Tosk Christians.
Am guessing once you further categorize the results, you will see an even lower rate of ph1751 in christian Tosks, which is what you expect if what i wrote in my first post are correct.

C) Although the samples are fairly low, so no conclusive statement cant be make about these two groups,both Chams and the (alleged) Arvanite samples from Greece(unless i didn't understand it correctly), show no presence of J2b, and therefor no presence of J-ph1751. Which is again what you would expect if what i claim in the first post are correct.
View attachment 12654
View attachment 12655

D) (this based on the Study of Arbereshe) J-Ph1751 show little presence in Arbereshe too. The total rate of J2b is less than 3%, so what ever j-ph1751 exist in them will be at least that low and probably much much lower.
View attachment 12656

Now the relatively higher presence of z2705 compare to the J-ph1751 in south Albania is puzzling. I would havve expected it to have been lower, but it may have another explanation in addition to the arrival of northern Albanian populations in the region. Probably part of it is related to the settling in the area of christian vlachs in the first millennia, or the regional abnormality is coincidental on the bases of the founder effect(although i doubt the later).

Poor analysis, the movement from North to South is known but happened before Ottoman invasion not related to religion. Tosk vs Geg differences are logical as the language differences, go in line with each other. It will be interesting to have something similar from Greece, can you provide something like this?


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You are arguing with a guy who thinks north albanians are not albanian because they carry less south slavic and greek dna than arbereshe, surely this topic should be closed. Not to mention his data for albanian dna is out of date and too small to compare

The guy put up data that shows arbereshe had elevated levels of south slavic y dna, elevated e-m123 (likely italian) and even elevated levels of g and j2a which are clearly either greek or italian and then says why dont albanians (especially north) have these today
 
You are arguing with a guy who thinks north albanians are not albanian because they carry less south slavic and greek dna than arbereshe, surely this topic should be closed. Not to mention his data for albanian dna is out of date and too small to compare

The guy put up data that shows arbereshe had elevated levels of south slavic y dna, elevated e-m123 (likely italian) and even elevated levels of g and j2a which are clearly either greek or italian and then says why dont albanians (especially north) have these today

Albanians have their own J2a clusters that is not related since the Bronze Age with any Greek J2a. Also, G is Neolithic. Im not sure if there are any Albanian specific branches yet, but its not all Greek.

I agree with the rest. Hes obviously making himself look the fool.
 
I haven't been following Albanian genetics for a while, so I must ask why did this "Rrenjet" site split off from Gjenetika and why does Gjergj sound like some weird businessman?
I don't think this split is very healthy for the studies of Albanian genetics at all. Very regrettable.
 
You are arguing with a guy who thinks north albanians are not albanian because they carry less south slavic and greek dna than arbereshe, surely this topic should be closed. Not to mention his data for albanian dna is out of date and too small to compare
The guy put up data that shows arbereshe had elevated levels of south slavic y dna, elevated e-m123 (likely italian) and even elevated levels of g and j2a which are clearly either greek or italian and then says why dont albanians (especially north) have these today

Why would Arbereshe have high level of Slavic DNa (allegedly) when there is little Slavic(allegedly) DNA in North Albania and Kosovo today?
As for E-M123, Italy hasn't greater presence of E-m123 than the Balkans, so how would mixing with the locals elevate their levels?
e-M123.jpg
There is an Arch of E-m123 that starts from European Turkey at 4-5% Continues to Bulgarian Black sea region at the same levels and progressively falls as we move west through south Bulgaria and Fyrom 2-3%, to Fyrom Albanians at 3% and stops at the gates of North Albania.

North Albania though has very little today, lot less than 1%, which again indicates to foreign origins of Ghegs.
Another Line of evidence than North Albania probably had high levels of E-m123, before the migration of North Albanians and the arrival of Ghegs, is that across the sea in the areas of Messapians people(in ancient times) that has high E-M12 in spite the fact that part of Italy experienced multiple migrations/colonization movements since the Messapian culture.
Haplogroup-frequencies-as-percentages-in-the-10-analysed-Italian-population-samples.jpg

Taking in mind that Slavs certainly didn't bring E-m123 in the Balkans, and most certainly had nothing to do with the levels found in Italy, the levels of E-m123 around its Balkanic arch would have been a lot higher originally in ancient times, before the Arrival of Slavs , Vlachs and Turks. That Arch logically ended at Coastal North Albania , It's populations were probably the last part of the Balkans left unaffected from all those migrations, which correspond to the history of the region and the Y-dna evidence.
 
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Poor analysis, the movement from North to South is known but happened before Ottoman invasion not related to religion. Tosk vs Geg differences are logical as the language differences, go in line with each other. It will be interesting to have something similar from Greece, can you provide something like this?


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But they dont go in line. Based on different studies and the Albanian Y-dan projects, you got:

Arberehse came from North Albania, but they speak Tosk, and they have R1b-L23/L51 but no R1b-L23/Z2705 and Very little (unclassified) j2b, which would mean little J2b-ph1751 ( if any at all).

Arvanites came from South Albania, but they have no J2b-ph1751 (samples are small though), although exists plentiful in the geographic space of South Albania.

Chams who are an extension of South Albanias also have no J2b-ph1751 either(samples are small though)

Next door Laps have both high J2b-ph1751 and R1b-L23/Z2705

Tosk speakers with out the Laps have much less J2b-ph1751 but high R1b-L23/Z2705

Ghegs have high J2b-ph1751 and high R1b-L23/Z2705

if Arvanites came from South Albania in the 15th century onward, why isnt there any J2b-ph1751 although it's found now in South Albania?
If Arbereshe came from North Albania in the 15th century, why isnt there huge amounts of J2b and no R1b-L23/Z2705?
Almost all the R1B in Arbereshe is L51.

All the evidence indicate to a recent Expansion of Ghegs.
 
R1b-Z2705 is present among Arbereshe of Sicily and Calabria in Boattini 2015. Check out samples ALB41*, DB2779, DB2780, DB2798 and perhaps ALB5*, shit for brains.
 
But they dont go in line. Based on different studies and the Albanian Y-dan projects, you got:

Arberehse came from North Albania, but they speak Tosk, and they have R1b-L23/L51 but no R1b-L23/Z2705 and Very little (unclassified) j2b, which would mean little J2b-ph1751 ( if any at all).

Arvanites came from South Albania, but they have no J2b-ph1751 (samples are small though), although exists plentiful in the geographic space of South Albania.

Chams who are an extension of South Albanias also have no J2b-ph1751 either(samples are small though)

Next door Laps have both high J2b-ph1751 and R1b-L23/Z2705

Tosk speakers with out the Laps have much less J2b-ph1751 but high R1b-L23/Z2705

Ghegs have high J2b-ph1751 and high R1b-L23/Z2705

if Arvanites came from South Albania in the 15th century onward, why isnt there any J2b-ph1751 although it's found now in South Albania?
If Arbereshe came from North Albania in the 15th century, why isnt there huge amounts of J2b and no R1b-L23/Z2705?
Almost all the R1B in Arbereshe is L51.

All the evidence indicate to a recent Expansion of Ghegs.

Again, rapid expansion of Tosk and Geg in last 1500 years. It’s known. Thanks for trying to raise meaningful questions.


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But they dont go in line. Based on different studies and the Albanian Y-dan projects, you got:
Arberehse came from North Albania, but they speak Tosk, and they have R1b-L23/L51 but no R1b-L23/Z2705 and Very little (unclassified) j2b, which would mean little J2b-ph1751 ( if any at all).
Arvanites came from South Albania, but they have no J2b-ph1751 (samples are small though), although exists plentiful in the geographic space of South Albania.
Chams who are an extension of South Albanias also have no J2b-ph1751 either(samples are small though)
Next door Laps have both high J2b-ph1751 and R1b-L23/Z2705
Tosk speakers with out the Laps have much less J2b-ph1751 but high R1b-L23/Z2705
Ghegs have high J2b-ph1751 and high R1b-L23/Z2705
if Arvanites came from South Albania in the 15th century onward, why isnt there any J2b-ph1751 although it's found now in South Albania?
If Arbereshe came from North Albania in the 15th century, why isnt there huge amounts of J2b and no R1b-L23/Z2705?
Almost all the R1B in Arbereshe is L51.
All the evidence indicate to a recent Expansion of Ghegs.

You stupid clown, arbereshe were south albanians even further south than tosks and they were already slightly mixed with greeks who were already mixed with south slavs. This explains the elevated levels of foreign y dna - then they moved to italy and picked up more foreign y dna. E-m123 is tiny amongst albanians - it is higher in greeks, bulgarians and italians and that is where it came from. R1b l51 is likely from italian mix as it is non existant in albanians today.

Lack of high j2b amongst south albanians is possibly because it was already dimished after roman conquest, diseases, slavic mix etc. Or it expanded more frequenty in north albanians, we still dont know where it came from and wont know without more ancient dna - it could still either be estruscan or illyrian or pelasgian etc.

North albanians also moreso refused to deal with foreigners and lived in mountains therefore were able to contain and expand j2b - j2b in south albania today has nothing to do with gegs it is mostly tosks that moved up to geg areas (tirane, shkoder etc). Labs are proof that j2b l283 is not foreign to albanians
 
Again, rapid expansion of Tosk and Geg in last 1500 years. It’s known. Thanks for trying to raise meaningful questions.


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He sounds like hes mad that north albanians are the least mixed people in all of europe whilst greeks are towards top of the chart as the most mixed - someone needs to close this garbage discussion
 
Why would Arbereshe have high level of Slavic DNa (allegedly) when there is little Slavic(allegedly) DNA in North Albania and Kosovo today?
As for E-M123, Italy hasn't greater presence of E-m123 than the Balkans, so how would mixing with the locals elevate their levels?
View attachment 12728
There is an Arch of E-m123 that starts from European Turkey at 4-5% Continues to Bulgarian Black sea region at the same levels and progressively falls as we move west through south Bulgaria and Fyrom 2-3%, to Fyrom Albanians at 3% and stops at the gates of North Albania.

North Albania though has very little today, lot less than 1%, which again indicates to foreign origins of Ghegs.
Another Line of evidence than North Albania probably had high levels of E-m123, before the migration of North Albanians and the arrival of Ghegs, is that across the sea in the areas of Messapians people(in ancient times) that has high E-M12 in spite the fact that part of Italy experienced multiple migrations/colonization movements since the Messapian culture.
View attachment 12727

Taking in mind that Slavs certainly didn't bring E-m123 in the Balkans, and most certainly had nothing to do with the levels found in Italy, the levels of E-m123 around its Balkanic arch would have been a lot higher originally in ancient times, before the Arrival of Slavs , Vlachs and Turks. That Arch logically ended at Coastal North Albania , It's populations were probably the last part of the Balkans left unaffected from all those migrations, which correspond to the history of the region and the Y-dna evidence.


800px-Albanian_language_map_en.svg.png
 
Yes arbereshe was likely the ethnic name albanians used back then so when they moved to italy they kept that identity. Or it was the name for tosks or a subgroup of tosks in 1400s further down the borders of albania today.

That map has far too many dialect sub groups though as most of those are very similar/identical, albania is already small enough this makes it look even smaller!
Its similar to how the english have geordie, manc, scouse, cockney etc. Something like that
 
He sounds like hes mad that north albanians are the least mixed people in all of europe whilst greeks are towards top of the chart as the most mixed - someone needs to close this garbage discussion

Why close it, it is music for our ears.


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Yes arbereshe was likely the ethnic name albanians used back then so when they moved to italy they kept that identity. Or it was the name for tosks or a subgroup of tosks in 1400s further down the borders of albania today.
That map has far too many dialect sub groups though as most of those are very similar/identical, albania is already small enough this makes it look even smaller!
Its similar to how the english have geordie, manc, scouse, cockney etc. Something like that
The truth is that it is very likely
The source of the high % e-m123 in arbereshe compare
To albanians in the mainland is probably from italian genflow
To the original albanian who migrated to sicily calabria in the 15 centurey.... ( also in close small group the % of the specific haplogroup can change):unsure:
Now having said that and although e-m123 is rare in albanians
The rrenjet project and yfull show us different branches of e-m123>m34 :
Some are e-pf6751, some are e-fgc18401, and some are e-L791>e-y4972 ,e-z21466
So they probably didn't enter albania at the same
Time could be in roman period, late antiquity, othoman army, romaniots, early mediveal ....:)
 
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You stupid clown, arbereshe were south albanians even further south than tosks and they were already slightly mixed with greeks who were already mixed with south slavs. This explains the elevated levels of foreign y dna - then they moved to italy and picked up more foreign y dna. E-m123 is tiny amongst albanians - it is higher in greeks, bulgarians and italians and that is where it came from. R1b l51 is likely from italian mix as it is non existant in albanians today.

Lack of high j2b amongst south albanians is possibly because it was already dimished after roman conquest, diseases, slavic mix etc. Or it expanded more frequenty in north albanians, we still dont know where it came from and wont know without more ancient dna - it could still either be estruscan or illyrian or pelasgian etc.

North albanians also moreso refused to deal with foreigners and lived in mountains therefore were able to contain and expand j2b - j2b in south albania today has nothing to do with gegs it is mostly tosks that moved up to geg areas (tirane, shkoder etc). Labs are proof that j2b l283 is not foreign to albanians
The movement of populations concurred with the collapse of Giorgos Kastriotis State, the Kastrioti-Ottoman war, and the Venetian Ottoman war.
All of them occurred in North Albania. Plus the Earliest settlement of Arbereshe were done by Kastriotis troops as a Reward for the Services he provided to the King of Napoli. The Date of establishment of the Towns tell us they were formed at the late state of the Venetian-Ottoman war.
By that time, Venetian Albania was essentially reduced to areas in Montenegro. Highly Unlikely that people from Southern Albania would Migrate, a century after the Ottoman conquest, that high up to find Venetian Ships to travel to Italy. Taking in mind how extended was the migration due to Ottoman barbarity (massacres-enslavement of civilians-selling of women a children to slavery), naturally the population movement followed the war lines, to the last safe heaven which were the Venetian Possessions around lake Shkoder.

As for Labs, they probably came from are settlement of Gheg militias in the region that mixed with the local population and expanded Islam.
The high presence of Bektashi, the religion of the Ottoman army, in the Region alludes that the region should have been a military center early on. A theory, yes, but what it isnt a theory is the the different Y-DNA profile between Muslims and non-Muslim Tosk Speakers.
Or even the Difference between Labs and Chams.
Labs and Chams have among the highest E-v13 rates(of the same Branch) in Albanian populations but are Radically different in much of the rest of the Haplogroups. At least based on the data to this point. A greater sample may differentiate the profile.So by what we have up to this point it's almost like the local population of each neighboring regions, which would have been fairly similar at some point in the not so long ago history, mixed in the last millennia with different populations each. Chams probably with Slavs, and Labs(aboriginal) with Ghegs.
labs - Chams.jpg
But Go Ahead give me another explanation why they two Groups are so different.
 
The truth is that it is very likely
The source of the high % e-m123 in arbereshe compare
To albanians in the mainland is probably from italian genflow
To the original albanian who migrated to sicily calabria in the 15 centurey.... ( also in close small group the % of the specific haplogroup can change):unsure:
Now having said that and although e-m123 is rare in albanians
The rrenjet project and yfull show us different branches of e-m123>m34 :
Some are e-pf6751, some are e-fgc18401, and some are e-L791>e-y4972 ,e-z21466
So they probably didn't enter albania at the same
Time could be in roman period, late antiquity, othoman army, romaniots, early mediveal ....:)

Italians dont have higher E-m123 though than the ares around North Albania, which if we believe the Slavicist narrative they are mainly Slavic in origins.So if it's 3% now in FYROM, it should have been 9% or more originally in the native population with whom the incoming Slavs mixed with. One Study gives a rate of 3% in FYROMIAN Albanians, but of course by my theory, they would be too mixed local Dardanian people with incoming Ghegs.

Albanians Fyrom.jpg
Plus the Arbereshe settlements were mostly homogenous new settlements. Built by and for Arbereshe. At least originally. Over time some intermixing with near by populations must have occurred but i doubt it was that severe.
Additionally the idea that 3-4 different towns (used in the study for Arbereshe), hundreds of km apart, found each a streak of extremely high E-m123 in Native Italians(should have been more than 20% in native italian at a 50% intermixing rate for Arbereshe) , so each town can elevate their E-m123 at the similar levels with each other,it is astronomically improbable.

Eitherway, where can we see the detailed subclade data of the rrenjet project ?
 
Italians dont have higher E-m123 though than the ares around North Albania, which if we believe the Slavicist narrative they are mainly Slavic in origins.So if it's 3% now in FYROM, it should have been 9% or more originally in the native population with whom the incoming Slavs mixed with. One Study gives a rate of 3% in FYROMIAN Albanians, but of course by my theory, they would be too mixed local Dardanian people with incoming Ghegs.

View attachment 12733
Plus the Arbereshe settlements were mostly homogenous new settlements. Built by and for Arbereshe. At least originally. Over time some intermixing with near by populations must have occurred but i doubt it was that severe.
Additionally the idea that 3-4 different towns (used in the study for Arbereshe), hundreds of km apart, found each a streak of extremely high E-m123 in Native Italians(should have been more than 20% in native italian at a 50% intermixing rate for Arbereshe) , so each town can elevate their E-m123 at the similar levels with each other,it is astronomically improbable.

Eitherway, where can we see the detailed subclade data of the rrenjet project ?




i am aware of this paper who found 3% in albanians from fyrom
by the way the map you gave before about the arch you see is very correct :cool-v:
there is indeed 4% e-m123 in european turkey and also burgas province bulgaria ( that could be explained by turks who can left some signiture in bulgaria )


about rrenjet : here:


https://rrenjet.com/databaza-publike/


in the search option put m34


P.S
than you can see that they are diverse some are e-m84 some are e-z841:unsure:
some were even uploaded to yfull ....
but arbereshe language is more close to tosk not to ghegs?
 
'Albanian YDNA Project' 2020 analysis of J-PH1751 & 2018 Description of R-2705

The movement of populations concurred with the collapse of Giorgos Kastriotis State, the Kastrioti-Ottoman war, and the Venetian Ottoman war.
All of them occurred in North Albania. Plus the Earliest settlement of Arbereshe were done by Kastriotis troops as a Reward for the Services he provided to the King of Napoli. The Date of establishment of the Towns tell us they were formed at the late state of the Venetian-Ottoman war.
By that time, Venetian Albania was essentially reduced to areas in Montenegro. Highly Unlikely that people from Southern Albania would Migrate, a century after the Ottoman conquest, that high up to find Venetian Ships to travel to Italy. Taking in mind how extended was the migration due to Ottoman barbarity (massacres-enslavement of civilians-selling of women a children to slavery), naturally the population movement followed the war lines, to the last safe heaven which were the Venetian Possessions around lake Shkoder.

As for Labs, they probably came from are settlement of Gheg militias in the region that mixed with the local population and expanded Islam.
The high presence of Bektashi, the religion of the Ottoman army, in the Region alludes that the region should have been a military center early on. A theory, yes, but what it isnt a theory is the the different Y-DNA profile between Muslims and non-Muslim Tosk Speakers.
Or even the Difference between Labs and Chams.
Labs and Chams have among the highest E-v13 rates(of the same Branch) in Albanian populations but are Radically different in much of the rest of the Haplogroups. At least based on the data to this point. A greater sample may differentiate the profile.So by what we have up to this point it's almost like the local population of each neighboring regions, which would have been fairly similar at some point in the not so long ago history, mixed in the last millennia with different populations each. Chams probably with Slavs, and Labs(aboriginal) with Ghegs.
View attachment 12732
But Go Ahead give me another explanation why they two Groups are so different.

First group is

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrio_Reres

Cameria samples very small for conclusion, wait we will get more samples. But a northern influence for Lab is known now. Again nothing new. While Reres knights seem from south considering their names. Some of them seem From Laberia.


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'Albanian YDNA Project' 2020 analysis of J-PH1751 & 2018 Description of R-2705

First group is

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrio_Reres

Cameria samples very small for conclusion, wait we will get more samples. But a northern influence for Lab is known now. Again nothing new. While Reres knights seem from south considering their names. Some of them seem from Laberia.


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In the Monasteries of Mezzojuso and Cantanzzaro you will find also the names of the families of the knight of Demetrius Reres... some of this names has not changed even today. These names very often show villages and places in Albania.

Reres expedition (1444 -1448).
Church Registers of Mezzojuso and Catanzaro:
B: Barbati, Barci (Barçi), Barcia (Barçia), Bardusci (Bardushi), Barlezi (Barleci), Balla, Barresi,
Barsetti, Bersi, Bidati, Bilotta, Blasco (Blasko), Boccula (Bokula), Borcì (Borçi o Borshi), Boria,
Borgia (Borshi), Borgi (Borxhi), Borshi, Braillo, Branciti (Brançiti), Brunarello, Bue, Buba,
Buccola (Bukola), Burrescia (Burreshia), Burnacasa (Burnakaza), Buschi (Buski ose Bushi).
C: Cacossa (Kakoza), Cacozza (Kakoca), Coccuzza (Kokuca), Calvaj (Kalvaj), Calfi (Kalfi), Calidaj
(Kalidaj), Camarda (Kamarda), Camera (Kamera), Camizzi (Kamixi), Candiota (Kandiota),
Carci (Karçi), Carnesi (Kamezi), Chiara (Kiara), Cicco (Çiko), Cirillo,Ciuglia (Çiulia), Ciulla
(Çiulla), Celejaro (Çelejaro), Comitascia (Komitashia), Conte (Konte), Costa (Kosta), Costantino
(Kostantino), Crapisi (Krapizi), Crepsi (Krepsi), Crialesci (Krijaleshi), Criesci (Krieshi), Crisia
(Krizia), Crispi (Krispi), Cucci (Kuçi), Cuccia (Kuçia), Curtichi (Kurtiki)
D: Damiano, Despoti, Dorengrichi (Dorengriki), Djanì (Xhani), Dragoti
F: Ferrante, Ferrara, Figlia (Filia), Foco (Foko), Franzi (Franci).
G: Ganaci (Ganaçi), Glaviano, Glesci (Gleshi), Glioscia (Gloshia), Gori, Greko, Groppa, Gulemi,
Golemi, Gugliotta (Gulota), Guzzetta (Guxeta).
J: Jers, Jessi
L: Lagresia (Lagrezia), Lala, Lecursìu (Lekurziu), Lesci (Leshi), Lescari (Leskari), Lojacono
(Lojakono), Lopez, Luca (Luka), Luci (Luçi), Lugli (Luli).
M: Macaluso (Makaluzo), Mancusi (Mankuzi), Manay (Manaj), Mandalà, Manesi, Manisi, Manisci
(Manishi), Masi (Mazi), Matranga, Mezzaracchio (Mexarakio), Mirditi, Mauro, Miceli, Minisci
(Minishi), Musacchia (Muzakia).
P: Parrino, Parrococchia (Parrokokia), Pachini (Pakini), Petta, Plescia (Pleshia), Pirri, Pravatà,
Proffera.
R: Rabalaj, Rafsi, Reppa, Rende, Rennis, Rennes, Rjebalati, Rùbesi
S: Scariani (Skariani), Sciglia (Skilia), Schirò (Skirò), Sochijpis (Sokjipis), Scurta (Shkurta),
Schioza (Shkoza), Staffa, Standila, Stanizzo (Stanico), Spata, Stassi, Sugli (Suli).
T: Teorga, Torga, Trajilla, Trapuzzano (Trapuxano), Thaminiti, Toja, Thana.
V: Vartusa, Veschio (Veskio), Vonazzo (Vonaco), Vrena, Vuoccola (Vuokola).
Z: Zacca (Zaka ose Xaka), Zaccheo (Zakeo), Zimbi, Zingana, Zenga etj.


https://books.google.al/books?id=OdK...zojuso&f=false



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