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Despite the heterogeneity of the male markers in the Italian peninsula, Sardinia and Sicily, at least this paper serves to connect the Italian Bronze Age with the BBC in Germany and Czechia and with the Iron Age-Latins thanks to R1b-U152>L20- Those migrations from the north must have occurred in the early Bronze Age because the other northern-Italian BBs we have are P312 and at least their mitochondrial markers are Iberian. That genetic continuity could serve to link the Italo-Celtic with the Unetice culture. But there are still many mysteries to be solved such as finding out once and for all, the origin of the Etruscans and their NO-IE language, or the role played by R1b-Z2103, J2a-M410, J2b-L283 and other markers in Italy.
ISBA9: 9th International Symposium on Biomolecular Archaeology June 1st-4th 2021
Viminacium samples are coming out.
1. Olalde Iñigo. Human mobility at the Roman Danubian Limes before and after the fall of the Empire
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They couldn't have been Beeker? I have heard that theory circulating as a suspicion. But am not knowledgeable enough to say.
Afaik Beakers were IE, and from what I understand of L283 Bronze Age migrations they likely were IE. So the only thing that makes sense is a boat ride for these y haplo carriers from southern France/northern Italy into Sardiania.
some markers in Germany and Czechia-Unetice
OBKR-80 (2.046 BC)- Königsbrunn-R1b1a/2a1a/2b1-R1b-U152-L2-Mit-K1a3
MX286 (1.960 BC)-Singen EBA-HapY-R1b-U152>L2-Mit-N1b1b
I7202/Grave 94: (1.950 BC). Jinonice Czech Rp-Hap Y R1b-P312-U152-L2- Hap Mit-U5a1/a2b-Olalde, 2018
AITI-72 (1.815 BC)-Kleinaitingen-HapY-R1b1a/2a1a/2b1-R1b-U152-L2-Mit-J1c2/c2
AITI-50 (1.812 BC)-Kleinaitingen-Lech Valley-HapY-R1b1a/2a1a/2b1-R1b-U152-L2-Mit-J1c3
AITI-43 (1.794 BC)- Kleinaitingen- HapY-R1b1a/2a1a/2b1-R1b-U152-L2-Mit-X2b+226
RISE471 (1.604 BC)-Untermeitingen-HapY-R1b-L2-Mit-J1c1/b-Allentoft
what DNA do we have from Unetice?
we have Y-DNA I2 but not R1b-P312
I suspect they had some steppe DNA like Bell Beakers, but do we have autosomal Unetice?
my guess is that R1b-P312 expanded from the northern part of the Carpatian Basin, and that Unetice were I2 who were influenced by continental Bell Beaker
continental Bell Beaker may have been Italo-Celtic
can you show the Iberian mtDNA in continental Bell Beaker?
they could be the link between Iberian Bell Beaker and continental Bell Beaker
The facts.
Paper compares R1b-L51+ samples with elite Yamnaya-Kurgan burials mostly R1b-Z2109+ many kms67+(sample sample IO443-L23+Z2105- and one I2 sample). It oddly parses the data and links Yamnaya with the ability for digesting gluten, and lipids compared to middle east farmers. In terms of gluten starch, one would have expected evolutionary farming communities consuming worry free(no reaction)gluten to have spread in early Italian farmers originating from Anatiolian farmers(wheat, rye, etc....) ,compare gene for dairy consumption in Europe.
Aside from Latini tribe sample R1016-- R1b-Z2103 sample from Castel di Decima 900-700, bc there were no samples to compare phenotype (so far) connecting Yamnaya R1b-Z2109+ in this study. R1b Z2109 and R1b L51 are linked with common ancestor R1b-L23+. Even though R1b-L51+ has been found in early Corded Ware(PCW070-3890+/-YBP) and Afanasievo (I6222 3316-2918+/-) , no phenotype comparison was highlighted in this study with similar R1b L51 ydna lines.
https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L51/
Bell Beakers are predominantly R1b-L51+ perhaps as high as 99% and they have varied phenotypes. The only R1b-Z2109 Bell Beakers are from Hungary, one with red hair and one with blonde.
when would these neolithic migrations from Iberia/Southern France have happened?
the thing is neolithic Sardegna, Iberia and S France were quite similar autosomal, so you need uniparentals to detect it
to me, it seems Sardegna was a safe haven for some neolithic (megalithic) elite when Bell Beaker was taking over Iberia and France
continental Bell Beaker (R1b with steppe) arrived quite late in Sardegna
P.S. I haven't read yet the 2020 study on Nuragic mentioned above
I didn‘t misinterpret the authors' claims but quoted their conclusion straight from the paper. Plus, I didn't mention pale skin at all. So, where did I claim, that CA or BA Italians were pale-skinned? I politely ask you to stop putting words in my mouth. And we already had a discussion about BA Greek paper where we came to the conclusion that "dark" in that context isn't that dark, and that dark to black doesn't translate into SSA complexion. Besides, I just wanted to point out that blond hair and blue eyes were not uncommon in Italy even during the BA. That's all.
You cannot deny that Afanasievo I6222+ and Corded Ware L51+ Italian L51+ are related to Yamnaya L23+ I0443.Im sorry but Afanasievo I6222 is a garbage sample, you have to keep looking
[FONT="] Overall, although non-significant the results suggested a trend where the four groups share more genetic drift with Russia_Afanasievo than with Yamnaya and Groups I, II and III share more genetic drift with Poland_CW than with Russian_Afanasievo (Table [/FONT][FONT="]S14[/FONT][FONT="] & Fig. [/FONT][FONT="]S20[/FONT])[FONT="]. This pattern was also mirrored by the [/FONT]f[FONT="]2[/FONT][FONT="]-statistics.[/FONT]
You cannot deny that Afanasievo I6222+ and Corded Ware L51+ Italian L51+ are related to Yamnaya L23+ I0443.
https://labs.icb.ufmg.br/lbem/pdf/Balanovsky2017HGlowlandAsia.pdf
page 9 L23+ neither L51+ or Z2105+
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7165176/
Real Expert, there are 46 samples from Bronze Age Italy, including the mainland, Sicily and Sardinia. Of those 46 samples, 4 are blond or dark blonde and blue eyed and they're all from Sardinia. None from the mainland, and none from Sicily.
That, to me, doesn't equal blonde hair and blue eyes were not uncommon in Italy during the Bronze Age.
If you want to interpret it that way, that's your prerogative, although I think it gives the wrong impression.
In the Iron Age, to complete the story, we have one blue eyed blonde.
We have more blue eyed dark haired people. We still do. It's really a "not uncommon" phenotype in Italy. I can't put my hands on the paper right now, but a very large percentage of Italians, especially in the north, carry one blue eyed gene. Even the percentage of people with actual "light eyes" is significant.
Related? yeah, but I'm afraid you didn't read the link you sent because Balanovsky expressly says this;
The resulting phylogenetic tree (Fig. 4a) demonstrates that haplogroup R-L23 splits into two main branches, R-L51 and R-GG400. The former includes West Europeans, while the latter comprises exclusively representatives of East European populations. Both branches are of similar age: around 6 thousand years (Fig. 4a). Note that members of this eastern branch R-GG400 came mainly from the steppe area of East Europe.
The currently available dataset does not contradict the hypothesis that R-GG400 marks a link between the East European steppe dwellers and West Asians, though the route and even direction of this migration is disputable. It does, however, demonstrate that present-day West European R1b chromosomes do not originate from the Yamnaya populations analyzed in (Haak et al. 2015; Mathieson et al. 2015) and raises the question of their origin
Regarding the paper on the CWC in Poland these samples belong to the late phase of that culture (2,400 BC), the Swiss L51 (MX310, MX304 and Asch25) are 300 years earlier and two of them are Neolithic farmers with hardly any steppe ancestry. Then the link between Afanasievo and those samples should be checked, you have to look at the female markers, because most of the CWC mitochondrial markers in Poland are from the steppe (Afanasievo, Yamnaya etc...)
Example-Afanasievo-Yamnaya-CWC Germany
Mit-U5a1/a1-Althausen-Found in the Afanasievo culture (River Kuyum-3,127 BC) and in the Yamnaya culture (Lopatino, Samara, Russia 3,115 BC)-This lineage was incorporated into the CWC and later into the BBC-Germany-(Augsburg-2,266 BC/Weichering-2,250 BC) and England (Windmill Fields-2,085 BC).
But don't worry, there are many researchers looking for L51 in the steppes for years, they will surely find it sooner or later, meanwhile saying that this marker or its descendants P310>L151>P312 are of steppe origin doesn't make much sense.
@Jovialis,
The raw data for these samples is available.
Hmm, strangely the samples do not populate, I've tried several different browsers:
I will continue to monitor the study, to see if they do eventually.
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