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Thread: Largest Italian, Irish, Polish, Greek cities in the world outside their home country

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    Post Largest Italian, Irish, Polish, Greek cities in the world outside their home country

    Great Britain, Spain and Portugal have set up population colonies that are now home to far more people than the country of origin. But what about more recent diaspora of countries that didn't set up their own population colonies?

    Largest Italian cities in the world

    For example is Buenos Aires, a city established by the Spanish, now has a population that if 3/4 of Italian origin. Out of a population of 14 million (with suburbs), that is about 10 million people of Italian descent, making it the largest Italian city in the world, well above Rome (2.8 million, or 4.2 million for metropolitan area), Milan (1.4 m or 4.3 for metro area) or Naples (0.9 m or 4.2 for metro area).

    Other cities with huge Italian populations are São Paulo with about 3.5 million, and New York with about 2 million people of Italian descent. Let's also not forget that not all people in Italian cities are Italian. There are plenty of foreigners and naturalised Italians who aren't ethnic Italians. Rome has 12.8% of foreigners, Milan 14.5% and Naples 4.4%. So even taking into account metropolitan areas, the largest ethnic Italian cities worldwide would be:


    1. Buenos Aires : ~10 million ethnic Italians
    2. Naples : ~4 million
    3. Rome & Milan : ~3.6 million
    4. São Paulo : ~3.5 million
    5. New York : ~2 million


    Rome, Milan and São Paulo are very close, so it's difficult to say which really has the largest Italian population, especially considering that many people who identify as Italian may be of mixed descent.


    Largest Irish cities in the world

    Dublin is the only major city is Ireland with 1.4 million inhabitants in its metro area. The second largest is Cork (300,000 in metro area).

    There are many times more people of Irish descent outside Ireland than in Ireland itself. Most of them immigrated to English-speaking countries, including Great Britain. In 1950, 700,000 Irish nationals lived in Britain. This number has nearly halved since then, in great part thanks to the Irish economic miracle (Ireland now has the highest GDP per capita in Europe after Luxembourg - twice higher than the UK). There are officially 175,000 Irish nationals living in London, but the true number could be much higher if we taken into account those who became British citizens or who are only partly Irish.

    Estimating the Irish population of American and Australian cities is more tricky. The largest Irish cities in the US are Boston (22%) and New York (13%), but it's not clear if the percentages are for the city proper or the metropolitan area, which makes a huge difference. The metropolitan area of New York includes most of New Jersey (14% of Irish) and Connecticut (18% of Irish), with an average of 15%. That would give us between 155,000 and 1 million people of Irish descent in Boston, and between 1 million and 3 million in New York.

    Philadelphia has some 600,000 people of Irish descent, Seattle about 300,000, Chicago 200,000, and Los Angeles 140,000.

    In Australia, 10% of the population identifies as being of Irish ancestry and 30% of partial Irish ancestry. Even taking a low 10%, that would mean that Sydney has some 530,000 Irish, Melbourne 500,000, and Brisbane 250,000.

    In Canada, Toronto officially has 265,000 people of Irish descent and Vancouver 275,000.

    So the biggest Irish cities worldwide would be:


    1. New York : 1~3 million
    2. Dublin : 1.4 million
    3. Boston : 0.2~1 million
    4. Philadelphia : 600,000
    5. Sydney : 535,000
    6. Melbourne : 500,000
    7. Seattle : 300,000
    8. Cork : 300,000
    9. Vancouver : 275,000
    10. Toronto : 265,000
    11. Brisbane : 250,000
    12. Chicago : 200,000
    13. London : 175,000


    Largest Polish cities in the world

    Chicago bills itself as the largest Polish city outside of Poland with approximately 1.9 million people of Polish descent. That makes it the second Polish city in the world after Warsaw (3.1 million for metro area). Krakow comes 3rd with 1.7 million for the metro area.

    Largest Greek cities in the world

    Athens is unquestionably the largest Greek city in the world with a metropolitan population of 3.7 million (over of third of the country's population!), followed by Thessaloniki (1 million for metro area).

    After that it's hard to say if the third largest Greek city is Patras (300,000 for metro area) of Melbourne, which has an estimated Greek population between 175,000 and 400,000, or London with 285,000 Greek residents. Heraklion (210,000) and New York comes next with about 175,000~200,000, followed by Larissa (165,000), then Chicago and Boston (both around 100,000).
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    I'm curious about the English. Over a hundred million Americans have English blood–I'm one of them (mixed). London and New York may have a similar number of residents of Anglo-Saxon ethnicity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I'm curious about the English. Over a hundred million Americans have English blood–I'm one of them (mixed). London and New York may have a similar number of residents of Anglo-Saxon ethnicity.
    I have lived in the United States my whole life, and I haven't really met anyone who is Anglo-Saxon Old-stock American, only unless they are mixed, or a recent immigrant from the UK.

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    My grandfather was, but he died in 1992. Only ancestor to not come over from England was...a Dane. Male line ancestor of his maternal grandmother, came over in the Colonial period. Hans Madsen; name was gradually anglicised to Matteson.

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    That's cool, I had a boss a long time ago whose ancestor fought in the Revolutionary War, I am not sure if he was partly Anglo-American though.


    More often then not, the people whose ancestors have been in the United States longest that I have met, were descendants of German and Irish immigrants who came in the 1800s.


    My mom and dad were born in Italy, and came here in the mid-1970s. But I've had relatives that have came here as birds of passage to work, since the early 1900s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I'm curious about the English. Over a hundred million Americans have English blood–I'm one of them (mixed). London and New York may have a similar number of residents of Anglo-Saxon ethnicity.
    It's practically impossible to give a fair estimate of the number of "ethnic English" outside England as English colonists have mixed extensively with people from many other countries (Scots, Welsh, Dutch, German and French on top in the US, Canada and Australia). Plenty of Americans, Canadians and Australians have at least "some" English ancestry, but where should we set the percentage limit, and how could one be sure after dozens of generations of admixing? That's why I concentrated on more recent diaspora, dating from less than 150 years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Symeave View Post
    The contingent of this or that country has been formed over a long period. At the same time, there was a very frequent brain drain - the process of emigration, during which specialists and scientists left the country. More about this can be found on https://eduzaurus.com/free-essay-samples/brain-drain/ with lots of essay examples on brain drain written by experts. This is a really serious problem for the economies of many countries, which needs to be addressed as soon as possible.
    The reasons for the current migration situation in different countries are of a socio-economic, political and psychological nature. Among them you can highlight two main problems - these are unemployment and difficult economic conditions. As a result, the number of labour migrants is rapidly increasing every year. People who have been left without work and on the brink of poverty see migration as the only way out of the current situation
    Last edited by Prinds; 18-11-21 at 16:18.

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    There is absolutely no way that there are 2 million Italians and 3 million Irish in today's NYC. Maybe 100 years ago. But today those populations are heavily admixed, as in the case of yours truly. So are these supposed "Italians" half Italian, one-quarter Italian, one-eighth Italian?

    I imagine the same is true of the 10 million Italians who allegedly live in Buenos Aires. They are probably partially Italian, and carry as well Spanish, German or some other European ancestry.

    By contrast, the Italians in Italy are in general 100% Italian (leaving aside the distant past, of course).

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    Italian, Irish and German are usually mixed together. I noticed that growing up just outside of NYC.

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    Chicago being the largest Polish population city outside of Poland makes sense.

    My direct line came from Danzig to Chicago circa 1890 and many of us descendants are still in the area. Though we are mostly a product of the melting pot in this area - German, Scandinavian and Polish branches; typical upper US Midwest admix.

    I have several Polish neighbors and coworkers - either immigrant or of Polish descent as well, so I certainly believe this stat.

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    https://culture.pl/en/article/7-most...side-of-poland

    First is Chicago (1,5 mln) ofc.
    Second largest Polish city outside Poland is Curitiba in Brasil (about 400 000 with Polish roots).
    Third Paris (300 000).
    Fourth New York (218 000).
    Fifth toronto (200 000).
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    There is considerable Italian ancestry here in São Paulo, but the vast majority are not just of Italian descent. They are people with Italian great-grandparents, but widely mixed with other ethnicities common in Brasil. From what I'm used to seeing in genetic testing groups here in Brasil: Italian ancestry is between 15% and 30% in São Paulo. Mine is somewhere between 10% and 15%. Italian ancestry here is mostly from Veneto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukas View Post
    https://culture.pl/en/article/7-most...side-of-poland

    First is Chicago (1,5 mln) ofc.
    Second largest Polish city outside Poland is Curitiba in Brasil (about 400 000 with Polish roots).
    Third Paris (300 000).
    Fourth New York (218 000).
    Fifth toronto (200 000).
    I've known quite a few Polish people outside of NYC as well.

    The white ethnics (non-WASP European Americans) built their own enclaves and tend eventually mix together. "White Americans" are usually a mix of these groups, also including WASPs into that mixture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Italian, Irish and German are usually mixed together. I noticed that growing up just outside of NYC.
    And Jews, depending on where you live. For example, both secular Jews and Italians moved into Massapequa, with predictable outcomes for inter-marriage. On the other hand, the only Jewish people in my community were those married to Christians, so the majority was the predictable Italian, Irish and German mix. Right next door in a very similar type community everyone is Jewish.

    That doesn't mean there weren't full Italians married to full Italians, including yours truly. I'm just saying those were the three ethnic groups and admixtures thereof living there, and where I am now as well, with the addition of people of Polish descent in certain towns, although not mine. That's the New York metro area.

    Anyone who doesn't think there are full Italian descent people left, however, has never been to Bensonhurst or Bayridge, just to mention two areas.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    And Jews, depending on where you live. For example, both secular Jews and Italians moved into Massapequa, with predictable outcomes for inter-marriage. On the other hand, the only Jewish people in my community were those married to Christians, so the majority was the predictable Italian, Irish and German mix. Right next door in a very similar type community everyone is Jewish.

    That doesn't mean there weren't full Italians married to full Italians, including yours truly. I'm just saying those were the three ethnic groups and admixtures thereof living there, and where I am now as well, with the addition of people of Polish descent in certain towns, although not mine. That's the New York metro area.

    Anyone who doesn't think there are full Italian descent people left, however, has never been to Bensonhurst or Bayridge, just to mention two areas.
    I'm an example of 100% Italians in the US too. So is my child, who now has Italian-citizenship and a passport recently.

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    We also have the cibro box for Italian programming. We usually have RAI Yoyo on to help our child learn to speak Italian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    We also have the cibro box for Italian programming. We usually have RAI Yoyo on to help our child learn to speak Italian.
    It's so wonderful that all of this is available now. So many second generation Italian Americans completely lost the language because in addition to wanting to "belong" and be "American", Italian wasn't offered as a second language until you got to university, and there was no Italian media available. It's only recently that one RAI station was available with Optimum.

    The Greeks had the right idea. Send them for after school classes in the ancestral language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maciamo View Post

    Largest Irish cities in the world

    Dublin is the only major city is Ireland with 1.4 million inhabitants in its metro area. The second largest is Cork (300,000 in metro area).

    There are many times more people of Irish descent outside Ireland than in Ireland itself. Most of them immigrated to English-speaking countries, including Great Britain. In 1950, 700,000 Irish nationals lived in Britain. This number has nearly halved since then, in great part thanks to the Irish economic miracle (Ireland now has the highest GDP per capita in Europe after Luxembourg - twice higher than the UK). There are officially 175,000 Irish nationals living in London, but the true number could be much higher if we taken into account those who became British citizens or who are only partly Irish.

    Estimating the Irish population of American and Australian cities is more tricky. The largest Irish cities in the US are Boston (22%) and New York (13%), but it's not clear if the percentages are for the city proper or the metropolitan area, which makes a huge difference. The metropolitan area of New York includes most of New Jersey (14% of Irish) and Connecticut (18% of Irish), with an average of 15%. That would give us between 155,000 and 1 million people of Irish descent in Boston, and between 1 million and 3 million in New York.

    Philadelphia has some 600,000 people of Irish descent, Seattle about 300,000, Chicago 200,000, and Los Angeles 140,000.

    In Australia, 10% of the population identifies as being of Irish ancestry and 30% of partial Irish ancestry. Even taking a low 10%, that would mean that Sydney has some 530,000 Irish, Melbourne 500,000, and Brisbane 250,000.

    In Canada, Toronto officially has 265,000 people of Irish descent and Vancouver 275,000.

    So the biggest Irish cities worldwide would be:


    1. New York : 1~3 million
    2. Dublin : 1.4 million
    3. Boston : 0.2~1 million
    4. Philadelphia : 600,000
    5. Sydney : 535,000
    6. Melbourne : 500,000
    7. Seattle : 300,000
    8. Cork : 300,000
    9. Vancouver : 275,000
    10. Toronto : 265,000
    11. Brisbane : 250,000
    12. Chicago : 200,000
    13. London : 175,000
    Liverpool, Glasgow and maybe Manchester could have been added to the list. They all have significantly large numbers of people with Irish ancestry.

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    My entire paternal side is mixed Greek/German, Greek/Irish, Greek/Scottish, Greek/Polish. Greeks tended to mix with Irish but also with Polish oddly enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matadworf View Post
    My entire paternal side is mixed Greek/German, Greek/Irish, Greek/Scottish, Greek/Polish. Greeks tended to mix with Irish but also with Polish oddly enough.
    I should have mentioned Greeks. We had a large community of them in my old town. I'm surprised to read that they mixed so much with anyone. Here in New York, Greeks, more than any of the other ethnic groups, tend to stick to their own, perhaps because it's also a question of religion and Greek school. A lot of their social life also revolves around the church, although they did join our pool and tennis club. Two of my daughter's friends were of Greek origin, and unlike the vast majority of the other girls, they married relatively young, in their mid-twenties, and to Greek boys, older than they were, whom they met at church.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matadworf View Post
    My entire paternal side is mixed Greek/German, Greek/Irish, Greek/Scottish, Greek/Polish.

    Scotland and Greece

    Despite the fact that the two coutries are poles apart. i.e if we imagine a NW and SE axis between Europe's geographical extremes. The following YouTube shows the remarkable things the two nations having common. e.g. early Scottish kings had Greek names such as Alexander or Constintine and the relics of Saint Andrew were sent from Greece to Scotland. both nations have the same patron saint.

    Of course if Scotland does eventually break away from the UK - there will be another thing that Scotland will have in common with Greece - severe austerity. Especially if Scotland tries to get back into the EU.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cNKT6WBwvo&t=298s

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I should have mentioned Greeks. We had a large community of them in my old town. I'm surprised to read that they mixed so much with anyone. Here in New York, Greeks, more than any of the other ethnic groups, tend to stick to their own, perhaps because it's also a question of religion and Greek school. A lot of their social life also revolves around the church, although they did join our pool and tennis club. Two of my daughter's friends were of Greek origin, and unlike the vast majority of the other girls, they married relatively young, in their mid-twenties, and to Greek boys, older than they were, whom they met at church.
    My father was the only one of eight to marry a Greek but he grew up in Cheyenne Wyoming not necessarily the hotbed of Greek American culture. You’re right I know tons of Greeks from Chicago and NY that remained ethnically insular. I was actually married to a Greek from Chicago and her parents (born in Greece) insisted on her marrying a “full Greek” which I thought was odd since I dated just good ol Southern girls.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillMC View Post

    Scotland and Greece

    Despite the fact that the two coutries are poles apart. i.e if we imagine a NW and SE axis between Europe's geographical extremes. The following YouTube shows the remarkable things the two nations having common. e.g. early Scottish kings had Greek names such as Alexander or Constintine and the relics of Saint Andrew were sent from Greece to Scotland. both nations have the same patron saint.

    Of course if Scotland does eventually break away from the UK - there will be another thing that Scotland will have in common with Greece - severe austerity. Especially if Scotland tries to get back into the EU.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cNKT6WBwvo&t=298s
    Very cool. I’d love to visit Scotland!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    It's so wonderful that all of this is available now. So many second generation Italian Americans completely lost the language because in addition to wanting to "belong" and be "American", Italian wasn't offered as a second language until you got to university, and there was no Italian media available. It's only recently that one RAI station was available with Optimum.

    The Greeks had the right idea. Send them for after school classes in the ancestral language.
    My wife and I want to make sure that our children have a strong connection to their heritage. We plan on going to Italy regularly with them. I don't want them to grow up as just thinking of themselves as "American".

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    Quote Originally Posted by matadworf View Post
    My father was the only one of eight to marry a Greek but he grew up in Cheyenne Wyoming not necessarily the hotbed of Greek American culture. You’re right I know tons of Greeks from Chicago and NY that remained ethnically insular. I was actually married to a Greek from Chicago and her parents (born in Greece) insisted on her marrying a “full Greek” which I thought was odd since I dated just good ol Southern girls.
    I dated a lot of people outside of my ethnic group too. A lot of Irish/Germans, I also dated a southerner Cajun girl for a few months too. My wife is the only "Full Italian" I have dated. Before that, the closest was a girl who was Irish-Italian.

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