steppe theory and western europe

[Gaska]

you are a pro- palestinian
you think i didnt knew that from
the start
for what they were we are
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/

give me a break ......
and yes i dont think they are nazis i think they are ant- semites
or they want to clean there conscience
by giving reason why the explusion was ok
what the spanish catholic church did to the jews is unforgetable crulety
beyond imagniation


p.s
yes i do think that many of the pro -palestinians europeans like ( roger walters and others)
are anti- semites that is there hidden agenda behind
any way israel as the right to defend herself

You are ignorant, do you really think I am Maju? HA HA HA HA HA, you can visit his blog in Spanish (I think it is called bagauda and ask him). That man is a radical communist and also a Basque separatist, that is the opposite of what I am.

 

[Gaska]

This may surprise you, maybe even shock you, but the vast majority of Jewish-Americans haven't heard of Polisario, and couldn't care less about the issue. Even most Israelis, I believe, don't care one way or the other. Yes, I personally do prefer Israel as an ally of the US, as do most Americans. I have nothing against Spain whatsoever, and in fact, don't even believe that Spain and Israel have any natural enmity.

Of course, Spain and Israel do not have a natural enmity, our relations have always been correct, although as I have already said that does not mean that we have to agree with their policies in the region. We have had decades of instability in Europe due to the obvious enmity between Jews and Arabs and we Europeans also suffer the consequences - radicalism, terrorist attacks, etc...


It is easy to imagine that the Americans do not know what is the Polisario front, nor Morocco, the Mediterranean or even Spain, all that is far away. That's why you don't care about the consequences that Trump's decision may have in the region. However, we are already suffering them with thousands of Moroccan and sub-Saharan migrants at our borders and thousands of boats (yes thousands) ready to reach the Canary Islands (I guess they don't know where they are either).

I know that the example I am going to give is a bit absurd, but what would you think if the King of Spain would tell the millions of Latin Americans who want to enter the United States that they have the right to do so because they could recover territories that belonged for centuries to the Spanish crown (Florida, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, Colorado, California etc etc) and provoke an unprecedented migratory avalanche - I guess you would not like it, right? Well, that's what happens to us with the American foreign policy.

 

[Gaska]

^^Indeed,

Goes to show you that woke morons are obsessed with color. Just because Cheddar man was dark skinned doesn't mean he was genetically black. Only a benighted worm would use it as an argument for political purposes.

The first thing that woke morons should know is that not all WHgs had dark skin.

 

[American]

you are a pro- palestinian
you think i didnt knew that from
the start
for what they were we are
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/

give me a break ......
and yes i dont think they are nazis i think they are ant- semites
or they want to clean there conscience
by giving reason why the explusion was ok
what the spanish catholic church did to the jews is unforgetable crulety
beyond imagniation


p.s
yes i do think that many of the pro -palestinians europeans like ( roger walters and others)
are anti- semites that is there hidden agenda behind
any way israel as the right to defend herself

Pro-Palestine sentiment from the right is always garbage. Fortunately, both in the US and Europe, it is dying off.

 

[real expert]

you are a pro- palestinian
you think i didnt knew that from
the start
for what they were we are
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/

give me a break ......
and yes i dont think they are nazis i think they are ant- semites
or they want to clean there conscience
by giving reason why the explusion was ok
what the spanish catholic church did to the jews is unforgetable crulety
beyond imagniation


p.s
yes i do think that many of the pro -palestinians europeans like ( roger walters and others)
are anti- semites that is there hidden agenda behind
any way israel as the right to defend herself

Israel has the right to exist and defend herself, no doubt about it. With that being, there are legitimate criticism on the proportionality of the reprisal of Israel for some rackets attacks by the Palestinians. There are observers who think that Israel uses excessive force as retaliatory measure that are out of proportion. Once again, there are Anti-Semites who criticize Israel, but not all are, since some have some valid points. So, you have to look at the motives why people do criticize Israel and whether they have legitimate reasons for doing so. In fact, there are Jewish people including very religious one who call out certain Jewish groups or activists, too. It's clear to me that blaming all Jews for folks like Soros, Eppstein, etc. is wrong. Besides, Rudy Rochman is a very proud Jewish/Israeli of Sephardi descent with his own YouTube channel. And he's an activist for peace and dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians. Rochman acknowledges the suffering of the Palestinians, but at the same time he also defends the right of the Israel to exist and to defend herself. This man is about solutions. However, he says that there on both sides, on the Israeli and Palestinian side, politicians that don't want peace, but that want to keep the conflicts between the two population alive for political gain and power.



<strong>

 

[American]

you are a pro- palestinian
you think i didnt knew that from
the start
for what they were we are
http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot.com/

give me a break ......
and yes i dont think they are nazis i think they are ant- semites
or they want to clean there conscience
by giving reason why the explusion was ok
what the spanish catholic church did to the jews is unforgetable crulety
beyond imagniation


p.s
yes i do think that many of the pro -palestinians europeans like ( roger walters and others)
are anti- semites that is there hidden agenda behind
any way israel as the right to defend herself

That guy's an ***hole. I saw he blocked someone in the comments just for criticizing his support for Palestine. He went crazy and said that "Zionism is banned" on something similarly moronic. Maybe someone should ban him on their blog and say that terrorism support is banned, just to see how he would like it.

Useless woke leftists freak out when their ridiculous worldview is exposed for its inherent retardation.

 

[American]

Israel has the right to exist and defend herself, no doubt about it. With that being, there are legitimate criticism on the proportionality of the reprisal of Israel for some rackets attacks by the Palestinians. There are observers who think that Israel uses excessive force as retaliatory measure that are out of proportion. Once again, there are Anti-Semites who criticize Israel, but not all are, since some have some valid points. So, you have to look at the motives why people do criticize Israel and whether they have legitimate reasons for doing so. In fact, there are Jewish people including very religious one who call out certain Jewish groups or activists, too. It's clear to me that blaming all Jews for folks like Soros, Eppstein, etc. is wrong. Besides, Rudy Rochman is a very proud Jewish/Israeli of Sephardi descent with his own Youtube channel. And he's an activist for peace and dialogue between Israelis and Palestinians. Rochman acknowledges the suffering of the Palestinians, but at the same time he also defends the right of Israel to exist and to defend herself. This man is about solutions. However, he says that there on both sides, on Israeli and Palestinian side, politicians that don't want peace, but that want to keep the conflicts between the two population alive for political gain and power.



<strong>

What was done to the Palestinians in 1948 was wrong. Just like what happened to the Native Americans beginning in 1492. The difference is that the Native Americans aren't consistently trying to undo the founding of our country. The jihadists continuously attack Israel because they can't tolerate its existence. Even if its founding was unjust, they need to accept that it exists, and give up this insane delusion that if they keep it up, they can eventually destroy it. It's not gonna happen. No more intifadas, no more rockets, but also no more settlements would be nice.

The excessive force thing I don't get, because what else are they supposed to do when they get rockets? Not respond? Wait it out? There is no way to attack Gaza without massive civilian casualties. Refusing to respond to incoming rockets is pretty ridiculous, and no country would do that. So for me 80-90% of the responsibility for those civilian casualties is on Hamas.

 

[American]

Here is an example of the retarded woke opinion of Cheddar man:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/08/opinions/how-cheddar-man-flips-british-identity-jones/index.html

I've lost brain cells from this ****. So it doesn't matter that he shared the majority of his DNA with indigenous modern British people (and Europeans more broadly), but his phenotype would make him "BME" which I guess is their version of "POC".

Funny, because the Nazis pulled all their phenotype crap before we knew anything about population genetics. That then overruled phenotype as a determinant of population affinities. It looks like CNN wants to take us back to the good old days.

there is really no such thing as a native Briton, white or otherwise

So British people have no right to a national identity and the democratic right to determine an immigration policy.

To all Europeans: As an American I'm so, so sorry for the fact that you as well have to put up with CNN spreading woke propaganda about your countries.

Finally, I don't understand why "White British" is an ethnicity instead of "English", "Irish", "Scottish", and "Welsh". Perhaps they don't want to list these alongside "Indian", "Pakistani", "Jamaican", and "Polish", because it would confirm that there are native ethnic identities that correspond with these nationalities, and that would be racist.

 

[real expert]

^^Indeed,

Goes to show you that woke morons are obsessed with color. Just because Cheddar man was dark skinned doesn't mean he was genetically black. Only a benighted worm would use it as an argument for political purposes.

Not only that. The leftists are now teaching the Critical Race Theory in many schools. According to this theory, white people are inherently racist, oppressive, and privileged by virtue of the color of their skin, and black people are oppressed, and victims due to their skin color by default. So, the liberal progressives want to fight racism with more racism or anti- whiteness. But at the same time, they say race is a social construct and not real anyway.

 

[American]

Not only that. The leftists are now teaching the Critical Race Theory in many schools. According to this theory, white people are inherently racist, oppressive, and privileged by virtue of the color of their skin, and black people are oppressed, and victims due to their skin color by default. So, the liberal progressives want to fight racism with more racism or anti- whiteness. But at the same time, they say race is a social construct and not real anyway.

Well the online race-classification concept of race clearly is socially constructed, but biologically there are clear differences. It's hard to justify "Gracile Mediterranean" and "Celtic Nordic" in objective reality.

As far as critical race theory, I'm glad a European actually understands. Our mainstream propaganda machines constantly churn out garbage in defense of CRT, so even moderates support it and consider all opposition crazy far-right paranoia. I know in Europe there is the perception that the liberal portion of the US population is rational and into facts and logic, but this is no longer the case. CRT is absolute indoctrination, and part of a cultural genocide against the interior of the US. Despite their propaganda, it has nothing to do with race, everything to do with culture.

 

[torzio]

Well the online race-classification concept of race clearly is socially constructed, but biologically there are clear differences. It's hard to justify "Gracile Mediterranean" and "Celtic Nordic" in objective reality.

As far as critical race theory, I'm glad a European actually understands. Our mainstream propaganda machines constantly churn out garbage in defense of CRT, so even moderates support it and consider all opposition crazy far-right paranoia. I know in Europe there is the perception that the liberal portion of the US population is rational and into facts and logic, but this is no longer the case. CRT is absolute indoctrination, and part of a cultural genocide against the interior of the US. Despite their propaganda, it has nothing to do with race, everything to do with culture.

there is also Celtic-Noric .................from Noricum which is eastern Austria

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noricum

The Noric race (German: Norische Rasse) was a racial category proposed by the anthropologist Victor Lebzelter. The "Noric race" was supposed to be a sub-type of the Dinaric race more Nordic in appearance than standard Dinaric peoples.^[4] The term derived from Noricum, a province of the Roman Empire roughly equivalent to southern Austria and northern Slovenia. The term is not to be confused with Nordic.
Norics were characterized by tall stature, brachycephaly, nasal convexity, long face and broad forehead. Their complexion was said to be light, and blondness combined with light eyes to be their anthropologic characteristic.^[5]

 

[Vallicanus]

This is all very interesting but what does it have to do with the steppe theory?

 

[real expert]

I've lost brain cells from this ****. So it doesn't matter that he shared the majority of his DNA with indigenous modern British people (and Europeans more broadly), but his phenotype would make him "BME" which I guess is their version of "POC".

Funny, because the Nazis pulled all their phenotype crap before we knew anything about population genetics. That then overruled phenotype as a determinant of population affinities. It looks like CNN wants to take us back to the good old days.



So British people have no right to a national identity and the democratic right to determine an immigration policy.

To all Europeans: As an American I'm so, so sorry for the fact that you as well have to put up with CNN spreading woke propaganda about your countries.

Finally, I don't understand why "White British" is an ethnicity instead of "English", "Irish", "Scottish", and "Welsh". Perhaps they don't want to list these alongside "Indian", "Pakistani", "Jamaican", and "Polish", because it would confirm that there are native ethnic identities that correspond with these nationalities, and that would be racist.

The involved researchers from the Cheddar Man study were part of the problem too, and not only the incompetent and click bait thirsty journalists. The scientists failed or had no real interest to explain in clear and understandable language to the public, that the Cheddar Man regardless of skin tone was through and through European with a Caucasian morphology. They didn't really pointed out that the pale Northern Europeans are his closest relatives, and not Africans at all. Instead, they gave the impression that the Cheddar Man was somehow closer to black Africans than to the native white Brits because of his skin color. And the same scientists made a political statement that at the end of the day, we are all immigrants. So, the authors themselves love to associate the Cheddar Man with Africans in spite of being in the full knowledge that the WHGs are one the most genetically distinct people from Sub- Saharan Africans. Keep in mind, that while we can trust the data we shouldn't fool ourselves by pretending that scientists/ the researchers who are usually left-leaning are free of bias and political afflictions.

Besides, I used to often debate Afrocentric loons and nutcase. Many of them claim that not DNA, genetics but skin color and phenotype determine race and that all Melanated People (so basically anyone that isn't ghostly white or looks Nordic) as they say belong to the Black race which includes Cheddar man, Etruscans, Minoans, Romans/Greeks, etc. Plus they claim that blacks come in different shades from jet black to white as snow and that black people can produce all kinds of phenotype at any given time. Thus black people can look fully white according to them. So, some Afrocentrists, Black Hebrew Israelites say with a straight face that these white looking Libyans on the Ancient Egyptian wall paintings are NOT Caucasian but pale or light- skinned blacks.

 

[torzio]

The involved researchers from the Cheddar Man study were part of the problem too, and not only the incompetent and click bait thirsty journalists. The scientists failed or had no real interest to explain in clear and understandable language to the public, that the Cheddar Man regardless of skin tone was through and through European with a Caucasian morphology. They didn't really pointed out that the pale Northern Europeans are his closest relatives, and not Africans at all. Instead, they gave the impression that the Cheddar Man was somehow closer to black Africans than to the native white Brits because of his skin color. And the same scientists made a political statement that at the end of the day, we are all immigrants. So, the authors themselves love to associate the Cheddar Man with Africans in spite of being in the full knowledge that the WHGs are one the most genetically distinct people from Sub- Saharan Africans. Keep in mind, that while we can trust the data we shouldn't fool ourselves by pretending that scientists/ the researchers who are usually left-leaning are free of bias and political afflictions.

Besides, I used to often debate Afrocentric loons and nutcase. Many of them claim that not DNA, genetics but skin color and phenotype determine race and that all Melanated People (so basically anyone that isn't ghostly white or looks Nordic) as they say belong to the Black race which includes Cheddar man, Etruscans, Minoans, Romans/Greeks, etc. Plus they claim that blacks come in different shades from jet black to white as snow and that black people can produce all kinds of phenotype at any given time. Thus black people can look fully white according to them. So, some Afrocentrists, Black Hebrew Israelites say with a straight face that these white looking Libyans on the Ancient Egyptian wall paintings are NOT Caucasian but pale or light- skinned blacks.

maybe they are classified as

Aethiopia, as a generic or ethnic designation, comprises the inhabitants of Africa who dwelt between the equator, the Red Sea, and the Atlantic, for Strabo speaks of Hesperian Aethiopians S. of the Pharusii and Mauri, and Herodotus (4.197) describes them as occupying the whole of South Libya. The name Aethiopians is probably Semitic, and if indigenous, certainly so, since the Aethiopic language is pure Semitic. Mr. Salt says that to this day the Abyssinians call themselves Itiopjawan. The Greek geographers however, derived the name from αἴθω--ὤψ, and applied it to all the sun-burnt dark-com-plexioned races above Egypt. Herodotus (3.94, 7.70) indeed speaks of Aethiopians of Asia, whom he probably so designated from their being of a darker hue than their immediate neighbours. Like the Aethiopians of the Nile, they were tributary to Persia in the reign of Darius. They were a straight-haired race, while their Libyan namesakes were, according to the historian, woolly-haired. But the expression (οὐλότατον τρίχωμα) must not be construed too literally, as neither the ancient Aethiopians, as depictured on the monuments, nor their modern representatives, the Bisháries and Shangallas, have, strictly speaking, the negro-hair. The Asiatic Aethiopians were an equestrian people, wearing crests and head armour made of the hide and manes of horses. From Herodotus (l.c.) we infer that they were a Mongolic race, isolated in the steppes of Kurdistan.

So these can be any skin colour from white to black .......................in the bronze-age and early age , these Aethiopians where strictly classified as either western or eastern Libyans , pale in skin colour compared to the egyptians

many scholars/people took away the A and thought it was only ethiopians that the ancient referred to ............clearly a 100% error by these

 

[American]

This is all very interesting but what does it have to do with the steppe theory?

To my knowledge the use of "steppe theory" here is a misnomer; it's also a straw man. The original Steppe theory is that the Indo-European languages spread to Europe from the Eurasian steppes.

This thread was (originally) about some vague, nebulous constellation of things that may or may not have entered Europe from the steppes, focusing mainly on Y-DNA haplogroups and phenotype (esp. blond hair and blue eyes).

When that's the case, no one should be surprised when the thread takes ridiculous twists and turns. Why stay on topic when there never was a set topic in the first place?

 

[American]

The involved researchers from the Cheddar Man study were part of the problem too, and not only the incompetent and click bait thirsty journalists. The scientists failed or had no real interest to explain in clear and understandable language to the public, that the Cheddar Man regardless of skin tone was through and through European with a Caucasian morphology. They didn't really pointed out that the pale Northern Europeans are his closest relatives, and not Africans at all. Instead, they gave the impression that the Cheddar Man was somehow closer to black Africans than to the native white Brits because of his skin color. And the same scientists made a political statement that at the end of the day, we are all immigrants. So, the authors themselves love to associate the Cheddar Man with Africans in spite of being in the full knowledge that the WHGs are one the most genetically distinct people from Sub- Saharan Africans. Keep in mind, that while we can trust the data we shouldn't fool ourselves by pretending that scientists/ the researchers who are usually left-leaning are free of bias and political afflictions.

Besides, I used to often debate Afrocentric loons and nutcase. Many of them claim that not DNA, genetics but skin color and phenotype determine race and that all Melanated People (so basically anyone that isn't ghostly white or looks Nordic) as they say belong to the Black race which includes Cheddar man, Etruscans, Minoans, Romans/Greeks, etc. Plus they claim that blacks come in different shades from jet black to white as snow and that black people can produce all kinds of phenotype at any given time. Thus black people can look fully white according to them. So, some Afrocentrists, Black Hebrew Israelites say with a straight face that these white looking Libyans on the Ancient Egyptian wall paintings are NOT Caucasian but pale or light- skinned blacks.

Check it, yo: realhistoryww.com

I would say this is what happens when the wokeness reaches 100%, except I think these guys are probably far-right "hoteps" with no tolerance of intersectional feminism which they would see as the White Man's conspiracy to keep the Black Man down. Everyone was originally black, and then albinos from Central Asia introduced light skin.

In all fairness though, they may actually have a point about where light skin in Europe came from if what Gaska calls "steppe theory" is correct–I'm not taking a position. To say that all dark-skinned people share a collective identity is…something else.

 

[bicicleur 2]

​

Who's Maria Gimbutas? Let me guess. Is she a professor who teaches Women's and Gender Studies?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marija_Gimbutas

she was a highly respected Lithuanian archeologist, nobody questioned her

she praised 'old Europe' (neolithic Balkan) as peaceful, egalitarian and matriarchal
as oposed to the patriarchal and violent Indo-Europeans

as if the Indo-Europeans were invading and destroying a garden of Eden
and things would never again be the same

 

[American]

Also there's this feminist historian and very stable genius, Max Dashu, who believes such words as "prognathism," "platyrhiny," and "steatopygous," are all "ugly racist terminology". The Bering Strait crossing is a racist myth that invalidates Indigenous Ways of Knowing, which say Amerindians were here for 50,000 years (which must trump scientific evidence). Also, Lithuanians and Bosnians are victims of white supremacy, fam.

Even now mainstream media is questioning the scientific consensus, with Native American activists who feel their identity is invalidated evidently more important than scientists.

Makes you wonder: if a theory that places the origin of Amerindians at 12,000 years ago is enough to deny their indigeneity, how come Europeans (except the Sámi) can't be indigenous when the WHG arrived 50,000 years ago? Why does the media get to push back the date for the arrival of Amerindian ancestors to make them more indigenous, when they deny Europeans the right to any indigeneity at all? I love the idea that Cheddar Man proves that there's "no native British" when they'd never dare say that about Native Americans. These journalists are ideologically compromised propagandists.

 

[real expert]

To my knowledge the use of "steppe theory" here is a misnomer; it's also a straw man. The original Steppe theory is that the Indo-European languages spread to Europe from the Eurasian steppes.

This thread was (originally) about some vague, nebulous constellation of things that may or may not have entered Europe from the steppes, focusing mainly on Y-DNA haplogroups and phenotype (esp. blond hair and blue eyes).

When that's the case, no one should be surprised when the thread takes ridiculous twists and turns. Why stay on topic when there never was a set topic in the first place?

Yep. It's off topic but this time I could't resist to join in, and to give my two cents, too. We live in crazy times since this wokery or PC doesn't even stop at science.

 

[American]

Yep. It's off topic but this time I could't resist to join in, and to give my two cents, too. We live in crazy times since this wokery or PC doesn't even stop at science.

I have an overbite (maxillary prognathism). Perhaps my dentist and orthodontist are oppressing me with "ugly racist terminology" according to Max Dashu. Seriously it is concerning when standard anthropological and medical terminology can't even be used. In fact I think they don't even want the subjects addressed at all, which would be disastrous if they actually tried to do anything about it.