The genetic structure of the Turkish population

torzio said:
of the 2 x T1a2 of my branch...............one is snp p322 which I am negative for ..........he is noted as black sea greek

other
is linked with viking sample VK398

I was surprised there was so little of the T ydna when a paper a few years ago had 20% of T in eastern Turkey

i was comparing to this older paper
https://investigativegenetics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13323-014-0015-6

where further notes indicated a union with ancient Urartu kingdom and their Alarodian languages

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alarodian_languages
Click to expand...

… maybe I misunderstood, but out of the 800 samples only two are y T1a2 …
and you test negative to the SNPs (as I would) therefore our y line cannot be closely related to any of the two T1a2 of the study. I Think.
 
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torzio said:
of the 2 x T1a2 of my branch...............one is snp p322 which I am negative for ..........he is noted as black sea greek

other
is linked with viking sample VK398

I was surprised there was so little of the T ydna when a paper a few years ago had 20% of T in eastern Turkey

i was comparing to this older paper
https://investigativegenetics.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13323-014-0015-6

where further notes indicated a union with ancient Urartu kingdom and their Alarodian languages

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alarodian_languages
Click to expand...


interesting paper i wasn't aware of
thanks for sharing (y)
 
Salento said:
… maybe I misunderstood, but out of the 800 samples only two are y T1a2 …
and you test negative to the SNPs (as I would) therefore our y line cannot be closely related to any of the two T1a2 of the study. I Think.
Click to expand...


I am saying that there are only 2 samples of the T1a2 branch

of the 2

I am negative for one sample who is a greek on the black sea who has snp P322 .............we are negative for this ............we do not match

the other sample

belongs with the viking sample branch , VK398 ..............I did not check where I am negative for his line..............we are linked with the viking until Z19890 then we split and go down the CTS3767 line

so, you are correct

the other 10 samples of T , all belong to the T1a1 branch
 
Yfull will most likely link me with the viking as they link me with CTS1848 which I am negative for ...................Yfull seem to start the link with CTS933 for me

https://www.yfull.com/tree/T-CTS933/
 
fdfvrfbgvr.jpg
A hasty pie chart of the haplogroups i ve made.
 
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From the samples posted, the "C" ydna Anatolian Turks are 10-12% Siberian and East Asian and carry a little less Caucasus.

The Eastern Black Sea men are all pretty similar; the "E-M123" men are no higher in SW Asian and their "Siberian" and East Asian is virtually non-existent.
 
From the days on Dienekes' blog, samples showed that the "Turkic" ancestry was higher in southern and western Anatolia, where there was documented settlement, and not present along the eastern Black Sea Coast.

I wonder what the rest of these samples will show.

I'm also very interested to see the autosomal composition of the people from around Van.
 
^^Wow, lots and lots of "E" and "G", and a much smaller amount of "C".

No J2a, which is surprising.

MtDna has a bit of Central Asian, but vast majority is not.

My husband is G2a, and the source may be here. I wish he'd get deeper subclade tested.

You seem to follow the yDna closely. If you have time perhaps you might give us who don't a quick overview of the type of E and G2a we're looking at, and "I" for that matter.
 
Angela said:
^^Wow, lots and lots of "E" and "G", and a much smaller amount of "C".
No J2a, which is surprising.
MtDna has a bit of Central Asian, but vast majority is not.
My husband is G2a, and the source may be here. I wish he'd get deeper subclade tested.
You seem to follow the yDna closely. If you have time perhaps you might give us who don't a quick overview of the type of E and G2a we're looking at, and "I" for that matter.
Click to expand...

You should convince your hasbund
To take an G2 snp pack
Or better big y ...
There are other companies beside ftdna
Like yseq from germany
And nebula genomics from usa
Who sequence y haplogroup
Then we can see if he have any connection to
Those G2a in anatolia:unsure:
which i believe he might have
As the early european farmer came from anatolia:)



P.s
The E are a mixture of e-m34 and e-v13 and
Very small % e-v22
E-m34 more in the eastern southern north areas
E-v13 more in the west central
 
kingjohn said:
You should convince your hasbund
To take an G2 snp pack
Or better big y ...
There are other companies beside ftdna
Like yseq from germany
And nebula genomics from usa
Who sequence y haplogroup
Then we can see if he have any connection to
Those G2a in anatolia:unsure:
which i believe he might have
As the early european farmer came from anatolia:)
P.s
The E are a mixture of e-m34 and e-v13 and
Very small % e-v22
E-m34 more in the eastern southern north areas
E-v13 more in the west central
Click to expand...

Well, as to his G2a, either through original Anatolian farmers, or via Greeks, or directly from Anatolia. I don't know if the dating is precise enough to tell.

How much of the total is E-V13 in the west? Do you know? The question then becomes did the Greeks leave it there or did it go from there to the Greeks. Anyone know which subclade is the oldest?

I have to go back and read this paper and Supplement carefully. I'm very interested in the Turks, both because of their close ties to Europe and because one of my guilty pleasures when I want "romance" is some of their tv series; the less cheesy ones, of course. :) They're so much better than anything produced in America or the Spanish speaking world, and a bit exotic as well; a blend of east and west. Their films are higher quality and quite good, when their awful government doesn't obviously impact the content.
 
kingjohn said:
https://www.yfull.com/samples-from-paper/540/


p.s
i am not sure all the samples in each y haplogroup present in this paper were uploaded
to yfull though
Click to expand...
The SRS8752557's is a very interesting result. It recently caused the split of G-L156 from G-P287.
L156 and P287 used to be equivalents at the G2 level, but not anymore. So, apparently the former G2b became G2a, and this new sample would be alone as G2b, separated by ~25000 years from the G-L156.
 
Regio X said:
The SRS8752557's is a very interesting result. It recently caused the split of G-L156 from G-P287.
L156 and P287 used to be equivalents at the G2 level, but not anymore. So, apparently the former G2b became G2a, and this new sample would be alone as G2b, separated by ~25000 years from the G-L156.
Click to expand...

Nice catch.
Feel like G is a very old, widespread, and ever-present sample.
Feel a bit bad not to be able to find much info on the net. Since branch too branch, as the example you just pointed out, is like J2a to J2b. Most of the times the academic tests are not even deep enough to even get any hint towards the historic context of the samples.

When I tried doing research on G2-P15>L30>M406, despite countless ancient samples, most academic papaers were not even testing deep enough, to tell a 15kyo SNP...

At which point I gave up the research. Would love if you have any info on this particular branch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_G-M406

Makes me wonder if this would have been present in Albania as a early farmer Pellasgic group, or say as a Phoenician/Levant group.
 
Angela said:
Well, as to his G2a, either through original Anatolian farmers, or via Greeks, or directly from Anatolia. I don't know if the dating is precise enough to tell.

How much of the total is E-V13 in the west? Do you know? The question then becomes did the Greeks leave it there or did it go from there to the Greeks. Anyone know which subclade is the oldest?

I have to go back and read this paper and Supplement carefully. I'm very interested in the Turks, both because of their close ties to Europe and because one of my guilty pleasures when I want "romance" is some of their tv series; the less cheesy ones, of course. :) They're so much better than anything produced in America or the Spanish speaking world, and a bit exotic as well; a blend of east and west. Their films are higher quality and quite good, when their awful government doesn't obviously impact the content.
Click to expand...


in the supplemental of this paper
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/36/e2026076118/tab-figures-data

i counted :

3- e-v22
14-e-v13
21-e-m34
:unsure:



out of the 14 e-v13
3 in balkan ( probably mean european turkey region)
3 in west
3 in the north ( maybe this could be pontic greeks influence)
2 in the east ( probably kurds)
2 in region unknown
1 in the south


https://i.imgur.com/BplYV1j.jpg


p.s
so e-v13 is mainly in european turkey , west anatolia and north ( not in the central as i wrote in my previews post):unsure:
the e-m34 branches in turkish population are ( e- L791 , e-pf6751, e-fgc18401 )
it seem my extreme rare branch is levant bonafide
no occurence above the levant
not relgious or something but if i go by y haplogrouop i am a direct descendent of iron age kingdom of judea and maybe before that some part of cannanites :unsure::cool-v:
some other branches of e-m84 did make it by expansion to anatolia and southern europe but not my branch that
always stayed in the sunny levant :):LOL:
 
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I'm rather surprised by all the E-M34 in Anatolia. So, it doesn't all signify Levant ancestry. :)

The question still is open, I take it, whether the E-V13 is older in Anatolia or in the Balkans.

I'd be quite thrilled if I were you that it's definitely a specifically Judean line, especially given that you're in fact Jewish, so it's connected to your actual autosomal ancestry, and not some artifact of ancestry that dates to a thousand years ago.

By that I mean it's not like some African with R1b where it essentially means nothing in terms of actual ancestry.
 
Here is how it splitt for the 21 e-m34:cool-v:
out of 21 e-m34:
5 in east region ( might be kurds or armenians )
5 in north region
5 unknown region
2 in balkan ( european turkey)
2 in central region
1 in west region
1 in south region

Let us remember
Bronze age armenians 1200bc
Rise423
Rise416
And
ART015 Late chl arslantepe dated to 3200bc
M84> pf6751
I am open minded to expantion of some
E-m34 branches from levant north to anatolia
Just i dont think the expention was recent
In order to find those ancients
It might be those people didnt
Even spoke a semitic language
Maybe hurrian

P.s
Bonus :)
BMAC culture Turkmenistan i2085
gonurtepe 1800BC E1b1b1 someone checked
His calls he was e-m34:
So some e-m34 people didn't spoke
Semitic language
Bmac culture is indo-iranian or something
Else
So they mingled with j and r1b, r1a in those areas early on:unsure:
But afcorse many other branches of it are semitic like mine :unsure:
 
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Archetype0ne said:
Nice catch.
Feel like G is a very old, widespread, and ever-present sample.
Feel a bit bad not to be able to find much info on the net. Since branch too branch, as the example you just pointed out, is like J2a to J2b. Most of the times the academic tests are not even deep enough to even get any hint towards the historic context of the samples.

When I tried doing research on G2-P15>L30>M406, despite countless ancient samples, most academic papaers were not even testing deep enough, to tell a 15kyo SNP...

At which point I gave up the research. Would love if you have any info on this particular branch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_G-M406

Makes me wonder if this would have been present in Albania as a early farmer Pellasgic group, or say as a Phoenician/Levant group.
Click to expand...
I remember to have posted something about it, and found the thread.
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...N-Levant-S-Caucasus/page4?p=604900#post604900
Following two other related posts: here and here.

As Maciamo pointed out on Eupedia's G2a page, G-M406 (ED) was not found in Neolithic Euro so far, which would be in agreement with a possible later dispersal from around South Caucasus in BA, reaching Europe (and other parts of Middle East).
 
Regio X said:
I remember to have posted something about it, and found the thread.
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...N-Levant-S-Caucasus/page4?p=604900#post604900
Following two other related posts: here and here.

As Maciamo pointed out on Eupedia's G2a page, it was not found in Neolithic Euro so far, which would be in agreement with a possible later dispersal from around South Caucasus in BA, reaching Europe (and other parts of Middle East).
Click to expand...

he updated one G2a branch recently to neolithic croatia as per the August paper
 
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