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Thread: Genomes from 82 Etruscans and Southern Italians.(800 BCE – 1,000 CE).

  1. #26
    Advisor Jovialis's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Thank you, Brick

    Dodecad K12b

    Code:
    ETR001,8.19,0,2.62,0.45,33.92,11.31,0,0,12.02,0,31.49,0

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Thank you, Brick

    Dodecad K12b

    Code:
    ETR001,8.19,0,2.62,0.45,33.92,11.31,0,0,12.02,0,31.49,0
    Dodecad K12


  3. #28
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    5 members found this post helpful.
    no Y Haplogroup, but… mtDNA showed up as: T1a8a


  4. #29
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Distance to: ETR001
    6.38203729 Italian_Campania
    7.03265242 Italian_Abruzzo
    7.62693910 Italian_Sicily
    8.38596446 Italian_Calabria
    8.38833142 Italian_Marche
    9.60335879 Italian_Lazio
    9.96289115 Ashkenazi_Jews
    9.96578647 Italian_Apulia
    10.96518582 Italian_Jews
    11.02515760 Moldovan_Jewish
    11.19228752 Greek_Lemnos
    11.26296586 Italian_Romagna
    11.56550474 French_Corsica
    12.23690320 Greek_Central
    12.30425130 Greek_Fournoi
    12.35916664 Greek_Athens
    12.37459494 Greek_Foca
    12.60453490 Greek_Izmir
    12.77140556 Sephardic_Jews
    13.30770078 Greek_Crete
    13.32534052 Italian_Tuscany
    13.33030007 Greek_Icaria
    13.47303975 Morocco_Jews
    14.03145039 Greek_Kos
    14.16424018 Greek_Peloponnese

    Distance to: ETR001
    5.72585365 Imperial-age_Marche_(n=2)
    6.56417550 6th-century_Piedmont_(Italians_only)_(n=7)
    7.93676256 Late_Antiquity_Latium_(n=24)
    8.87417602 Italian_Greeks_(n=2)
    8.93407522 EMBA_Greece_(n=6)
    10.23708455 Early_Medieval_Latium_(n=5)
    10.29304134 Mycenaean_Greece_(n=4)
    10.80237474 Medieval_Foggia_Apulia_(n=5)
    12.19273964 Imperial-age_Latium_(East_Med_immigrants)_(n=46)
    15.07897211 Late_Medieval_Latium_(n=16)
    16.92457976 Bronze_Age_Sicily_(n=15)
    17.19678749 Early_Neolithic_Anatolia_(n=7)
    17.57018497 Etruscans_(n=3)
    17.58842801 Chalcolithic_Bulgaria_(n=9)
    17.74870418 Minoan_Greece_(n=10)
    17.85048179 Bronze_Age_Illyrians
    18.12963044 Early_Neolithic_Greece_(n=3)
    18.21896265 Early_Neolithic_Starcevo_culture_(n=8)
    18.99202464 Villanovans_(n=2)
    19.58193300 Medieval_Andalusia_(n=14)
    19.98121117 Pre-Pottery_Neolithic_Anatolia_(n=8)
    20.12171464 Middle_Bronze_Age_Anatolia_(n=2)
    21.18671046 LN_Lengyel_culture_(n=8)
    21.97552730 Roman_&_Visigothic_Iberia_(n=31)
    22.54377076 Middle-Late_Bronze_Age_Hittites_(n=2)

    Distance to: Jovialis
    7.95983668 ETR001

  5. #30
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Now this is very interesting to me. ETR001 clusters with C6, and is closest to the so-called Latin-outlier R437 from the Iron Age.

    She was a Mediterranean, not an eastern Mediterranean.

    Distance to: ETR001
    3.08917465 C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_T ribe)_Palestrina_Selicata
    3.12755496 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R52_Villa_Magna
    4.03565360 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necro polis
    4.13444071 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R113_Via_Paisiello_Necro polis
    4.93768164 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Ne cropolis_Ostia
    5.00859262 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna
    5.05356310 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R118_S_Ercolano_Ne cropolis_Ostia
    5.56285898 C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Erc olano_Necropolis_Ostia
    6.02139519 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R836_Civitanova_Marche
    6.29034975 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R47_Centocelle_Necropoli s
    6.51112126 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R49_Centocelle_Necropoli s
    6.52214689 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R835_Civitanova_Marche
    6.66137373 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna
    6.98725983 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R35_Celio
    7.02551777 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R973_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cian ti
    7.25305453 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R65_Villa_Magna
    7.88702098 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R64_Villa_Magna
    7.93834366 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R969_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cian ti
    8.01208462 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R54_Villa_Magna
    8.17496789 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1283_Cancelleria
    8.30575704 C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R120_S_Ercolano_Ne cropolis_Ostia
    8.45656550 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R57_Villa_Magna
    8.47171765 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R111_Via_Paisiello_Necro polis
    8.53086748 C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R59_Villa_Magna
    8.58506261 C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R137_Marcellino_&_Pietro
    Last edited by Jovialis; 05-06-21 at 10:19.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Dodecad 12B using updated Italian samples and my Dodecad 12B coordinates. I am pretty close to this ETR001. Who exactly is this fellow again? Given I am pretty close to this sample, The fact that he clusters with the C6 Cluster from Antonio et al 2019 is not surprising as I cluster with the C6 group as well.

    Distance to: ETR001
    4.58093877 PalermoTrapani_Combined
    6.38203729 Italian_Campania
    7.03265242 Italian_Abruzzo
    7.62693910 Italian_Sicily
    8.38596446 Italian_Calabria
    8.38833142 Italian_Marche
    9.60335879 Italian_Lazio
    9.96578647 Italian_Apulia
    10.96518582 Italian_Jews
    11.26296586 Italian_Romagna
    13.32534052 Italian_Tuscany
    15.01636108 Italian_Emilia
    15.83142445 Italian_Liguria
    18.61888557 Italian_Lombardy
    19.18587241 Italian_Piedmont
    19.59393784 Italian_Veneto
    21.34612143 Italian_Friuli_VG
    23.44608496 Italian_Trentino
    25.90687747 Italian_Aosta_Valley

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    no Y Haplogroup, but… mtDNA showed up as: T1a8a

    Interesting Salento, R850 and ETR001 have similar mtnda as well or is it R850 has Y DNA T1?

  8. #33
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    … ETR001 vs S

    … Largest Segment 15.5 cM … maybe a Tourist, … unless all the Tourists are legit :)


  9. #34
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Salento: In regards to you post #33, that is really close given you are using 7 CM as default, and not 3, etc.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Interesting Salento, R850 and ETR001 have similar mtnda as well or is it R850 has Y DNA T1?
    … both, R850 y and mtDNA are T :)

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Salento: In regards to you post #33, that is really close given you are using 7 CM as default, and not 3, etc.
    … that’s why I made the Tourist comment, … that’s a lot of Apulian for an Etruscan, I guess :)

  12. #37
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    Well, what I can say is that ETR is from the Late Roman Empire period...

    Given the abstract of this upcoming paper:


    "This continuity drastically changes during the Roman Imperial period where we report an abrupt population-wide shift to ~50% admixture with eastern Mediterranean ancestry."We should expect a drastic* difference between ETR001 (~300CE) and some the 82 samples, the ones from the Iron age that predate it. (*using the description from the abstract).
    Last edited by Archetype0ne; 05-06-21 at 04:27. Reason: Formatting, clearing emphasis.
    “Man cannot live without a permanent trust in something indestructible in himself, and at the same time that indestructible something as well as his trust in it may remain permanently concealed from him.”

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  13. #38
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    … that’s why I made the Tourist comment, … that’s a lot of Apulian for an Etruscan, I guess :)

    She is Roman, not Etruscan, cannot be considered Etruscan for any reason. The Etruscan chronology ends at the end of the first century BC.


    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Dodecad 12B using updated Italian samples and my Dodecad 12B coordinates. I am pretty close to this ETR001. Who exactly is this fellow again? Given I am pretty close to this sample, The fact that he clusters with the C6 Cluster from Antonio et al 2019 is not surprising as I cluster with the C6 group as well.

    Distance to: ETR001
    4.58093877 PalermoTrapani_Combined
    6.38203729 Italian_Campania
    7.03265242 Italian_Abruzzo
    7.62693910 Italian_Sicily
    8.38596446 Italian_Calabria
    8.38833142 Italian_Marche
    9.60335879 Italian_Lazio
    9.96578647 Italian_Apulia
    10.96518582 Italian_Jews
    11.26296586 Italian_Romagna
    13.32534052 Italian_Tuscany
    15.01636108 Italian_Emilia
    15.83142445 Italian_Liguria
    18.61888557 Italian_Lombardy
    19.18587241 Italian_Piedmont
    19.59393784 Italian_Veneto
    21.34612143 Italian_Friuli_VG
    23.44608496 Italian_Trentino
    25.90687747 Italian_Aosta_Valley

    ETR001 could be anything being she is Roman of the Imperial age. She has a very well-preserved skull, which is why she's in an anthropology museum. She was found in the 1800s, when anything was ascribed with too much easiness to the Etruscans because at the time it was very difficult to date a skull accurately. So she is actually without an accurate archaeological context, and was found in Chiusi at the border between Tuscany and Umbria, but nowhere is mentioned the name of the necropolis, this suggests that they probably don't even know. It is probably reuse in late Roman times of an older tomb.

    Among the ancient DNA samples her mtDNA was found in Ptolemaic Egypt. Among modern samples in an Italian sample (Pala 2012) but the study does not say from what area of Italy.




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    Pax Augusta: So she is Roman (not He), so mtdna is the key which is T1a as Salento Noted. Jovialis post 30 shows ETR001 is very close to the C6 Med Cluster from Antonio et al 2019 and close to South/Central modern Italy starting with Marche and moving Southward. I ran the top 6 C6 Romans that Jovialis ran in post 30 (ones with distances < 5) vs. Modern Italian samples, only included the ones that had at least 1 with a distance < 10. ETR001 does not to me seem to different from modern Italians

    Distance to: Italian_Sicily
    3.35404234 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    3.44389315 R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    5.08254857 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    5.80417953 R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    6.18016181 R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    6.53940364 R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    8.07264517 R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    9.49430882 R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia

    Distance to: Italian_Abruzzo
    3.37182443 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    3.40208759 R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    4.74745195 R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    4.92633738 R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    5.09174823 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    6.07623239 R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    6.09424319 R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    7.45135558 R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia

    Distance to: Italian_Apulia
    5.63133199 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    5.76332369 R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    7.07757020 R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    7.15357253 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    7.89144473 R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    8.83920245 R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    9.25052971 R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    10.29657225 R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia

    Distance to: Italian_Campania
    1.98408669 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    2.95387881 R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    3.70673711 R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    4.55702754 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    4.78842354 R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    4.92595168 R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    6.93185401 R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    8.56571655 R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia

    Distance to: Italian_Calabria
    4.75823497 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    5.26492165 R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    6.28000796 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    6.64693162 R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    6.86971615 R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    7.65354820 R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    9.74266904 R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    11.45484614 R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia

    Distance to: Italian_Lazio
    6.39973437 R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    7.35437965 R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    7.60505753 R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    8.32478829 R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    8.44094189 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    8.51764052 R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    9.57301415 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    9.63911303 R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata

    Distance to: Italian_Marche
    5.05660004 R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    6.22497100 R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    6.40141109 R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    7.59623881 R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    7.75295453 R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    7.81467747 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    8.48859847 R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    9.02768874 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia

    Distance to: Italian_Romagna
    7.09165002 R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    9.11096043 R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    9.40319095 R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    10.84811043 R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    11.25035999 R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    11.34562471 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    11.63032244 R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    12.32640661 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    Distance to: Italian_Tuscany
    8.87597882 R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    11.22107392 R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    11.87459052 R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    13.39049663 R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis
    14.01787074 R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata
    14.04972953 R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
    14.13979137 R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna
    14.84405605 R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia

  15. #40
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    @PT
    … the one to one with the “Roman” ETR001 has a MRCA (most recent common ancestry) of 3.1 Generations, … She’s like a Modern Italian, I Think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    @PT
    … the one to one with the “Roman” ETR001 has a MRCA (most recent common ancestry) of 3.1 Generations … still
    Hmm, the MRCA is hard to untangle but given how close ETR001 is to those C6 Romans, but given that one to one result and what I have seen with respect to ETR001 and pretty much every modern Italian population from Marche to the South, I think the autosomal DNA of ETR001 is close to you no doubt. How correlated is T1 mtdna in Italy relative to T1 Y DNA which you and Torzio both have. By that I mean where there is one, is there also the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Hmm, the MRCA is hard to untangle but given how close ETR001 is to those C6 Romans, but given that one to one result and what I have seen with respect to ETR001 and pretty much every modern Italian population from Marche to the South, I think the autosomal DNA of ETR001 is close to you no doubt. How correlated is T1 mtdna in Italy relative to T1 Y DNA which you and Torzio both have. By that I mean where there is one, is there also the other.

    this is mine

    my grandfather mtdna - paternal side



    Salento is not T1 mtdna
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4p
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

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    Torzio: Sorry, I was referring to ETR001 having mtdna T1a8e per one of Salento's post. So mtdna T1a clades are found in modern Italy today. So while ETR001 might not be exactly T1a1e, Salento noted T1a8e, so your Grandfather's mtdna T1a1e and ETR001 clades are somewhat related clades, yours more common in NE Italy, ETR001 in Central_South maybe?

    Thanks for the response.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Hmm, the MRCA is hard to untangle but given how close ETR001 is to those C6 Romans, but given that one to one result and what I have seen with respect to ETR001 and pretty much every modern Italian population from Marche to the South, I think the autosomal DNA of ETR001 is close to you no doubt. How correlated is T1 mtdna in Italy relative to T1 Y DNA which you and Torzio both have. By that I mean where there is one, is there also the other.
    I don’t remember ever getting a MRCA with an Ancient Sample until now.

    I don’t know the mt T to y T correlation.

    … maybe it’s irrelevant, but: … my y map ( … and Torzio), the final is in Tuscany, … not far from ETR001:




    http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html
    Last edited by Salento; 05-06-21 at 14:59. Reason: spelling mistake

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    Country: Belgium - Flanders



    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    I kinda wish they had not given us a preview at all, just wait until the study is all out.
    better wait than chew older studies again and speculate

  21. #46
    Regular Member Salento's Avatar
    Join Date
    30-05-17
    Posts
    4,891

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H12a

    Ethnic group
    Italian
    Country: United States



    ETR001 is like Great Grandma, (3.1 generations) … how about that :)

    fyi … I used my 23andme v5 Raw-Data for the one-to-one (free) comparison.

  22. #47
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Posts
    949

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2-M223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2A3

    Ethnic group
    Italian-Siicly-South
    Country: United States



    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    ETR001 is like Great Grandma, (3.1 generations) … how about that :)

    fyi … I used my 23andme v5 Raw-Data for the one-to-one (free) comparison.
    Yes, that is really close. The map you showed converging around Tuscany where ETR001 was found is interesting.

  23. #48
    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
    Join Date
    11-06-18
    Posts
    742

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    J2b2-L283/FT29003

    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    ETR001 is like Great Grandma, (3.1 generations) … how about that :)

    fyi … I used my 23andme v5 Raw-Data for the one-to-one (free) comparison.
    Found the time traveler!

  24. #49
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    10-05-19
    Posts
    949

    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I2-M223
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H2A3

    Ethnic group
    Italian-Siicly-South
    Country: United States



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Salento:

    Following your post #33, I get this one to one on GEDMATCH with ETR001


  25. #50
    Regular Member ihype02's Avatar
    Join Date
    12-10-16
    Posts
    592


    Country: Albania



    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    better wait than chew older studies again and speculate
    Agreed. Very annoying. I wonder how long will it take.

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