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Thread: Genomes from 82 Etruscans and Southern Italians.(800 BCE – 1,000 CE).

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Salento:

    Following your post #33, I get this one to one on GEDMATCH with ETR001

    That’s really neat PT, 4.7 gener. we’re Family to the Roman-Etruscan sample

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    Found the time traveler!
    you found two, … as of now

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    It seems that modern Italians get great matches for almost 2,000 old people that lived in Italy, be it that they get more "latin-like" ancestry or "Greek-like" ancestry.
    Now I wonder whether Italy was at some stage more Latin-like and became stepmeal more Greek-like thanks to the incorporation of Magna Graecia (very unlikely), or wether outside of Latium Italy was already more Greek-like and the spread of this profile in the early imperial period is an effect of the integration of the italic tribes between the late republic and the early empire; the two latin outliers more strongly point to this scenario, though it is an empirical question that only future studies will shed light onto.

    On Anthrogenica some have started again to talk about Etruscans and some have earnestly dusted off old nordicist theories, just because they've read a short abstract that on the face of it seems to confirm what the other paper about Rome showed. Time will tell if they will turn out to be right, but I doubt it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopoldo Leone View Post
    It seems that modern Italians get great matches for almost 2,000 old people that lived in Italy, be it that they get more "latin-like" ancestry or "Greek-like" ancestry.
    Now I wonder whether Italy was at some stage more Latin-like and became stepmeal more Greek-like thanks to the incorporation of Magna Graecia (very unlikely), or wether outside of Latium Italy was already more Greek-like and the spread of this profile in the early imperial period is an effect of the integration of the italic tribes between the late republic and the early empire; the two latin outliers more strongly point to this scenario, though it is an empirical question that only future studies will shed light onto.

    On Anthrogenica some have started again to talk about Etruscans and some have earnestly dusted off old nordicist theories, just because they've read a short abstract that on the face of it seems to confirm what the other paper about Rome showed. Time will tell if they will turn out to be right, but I doubt it.
    not you … people use the term ‘Outliers’ too casually,… some with bias to discredit legit samples,

    No Latin outliers on the official list:



    https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...Antonio_SM.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopoldo Leone View Post
    On Anthrogenica some have started again to talk about Etruscans and some have earnestly dusted off old nordicist theories, just because they've read a short abstract that on the face of it seems to confirm what the other paper about Rome showed. Time will tell if they will turn out to be right, but I doubt it.
    Indeed. The usual chatter of the clueless. Only very very few users on Anthrogenica show that they have grown over the years, the rest is the usual uneducated nonsense. I take this opportunity to respond to Richard Rocca who writes this "However, I think it premature to not take into account the "diverse individuals of central European, northern African and Near Eastern Ancestry" they found across the first millennium BCE. As we know, the Etruscans are sometimes seen as an elite that displaced the Umbrians. While some may balk at that, it is the history that was written (granted, by the Romans) and the IE speaking Romans themselves were ruled by non-IE speaking Etruscans."

    There are people far more knowledgeable than you who have already taken into account it. Maybe it really is time to start studying these topics seriously too. In etruscology studies the scenario reported does no longer exist. The idea that Etruscans are an elite that displaced the Umbrians was rejected many many many many years ago by archaeology. All Greek accounts on the origins of the Etruscans are no longer considered accounts that contain true events.

    Archaeologically, it has been known for over 50 years the presence of foreigners in Etruria: Celts, Greeks (from any part of the Greek worlds), Sardo-Nuragics, Sardo-Punics, Levantine and people from other areas of Italy and Europe. Etruria was for centuries one of the richest regions of Europe, and given the importance of trade in the Etruscan world, it is yet another discovery of hot water that there were foreigners in Etruria. But no scholar with a deep knowledge of the subject relates these foreigners to the origin of the Etruscans. For years. The relationship between the Etruscan and Rhaetic worlds dates back to prehistoric times. Not by chance, the copper of Otzi's axe came from the mines of southern Tuscany. It's quite incredible that everyone talks about Etruscans in 2021 and no one has read a single reference text, and they always repeat the same obsolete and outdated concepts.

    These texts in English may help to understand. Studying is not bad for health. Those of you who don't speak Italian are in luck, because today there are excellent texts in English. As an Etruscologist ironically said, be careful about talking nonsense and gibberish about the Etruscans, because the Etruscans will get you back.


    - "The Etruscan World", edited by Jean MacIntosh Turfa, Abingdon: Routledge, 2013

    - De Grummond, Nancy T. "Ethnicity and the Etruscans". In McInerney, Jeremy (ed.). "A Companion to Ethnicity in the Ancient Mediterranean". Chichester, UK: John Wiley & Sons, Inc. pp. 405–422, 2014

    - Smith, Christopher. "The Etruscans: A Very Short Introduction", Oxford University Press, Oxford 2014

    - "A Companion to the Etruscans", edited by S. Bell and A. Carpino, Wiley-Blackwell, 2016

    - "Etruscology", edited by Alessandro Naso, De Gruyter, Berlin, 2017

    - Turfa, Jean MacIntosh. "The Etruscans", in Farney, Gary D.; Bradley, Gary (eds.), "The Peoples of Ancient Italy". Berlin: De Gruyter. pp. 637–672, 2017

    - Shipley, Lucy. "The Etruscans: Lost Civilizations", London: Reaktion Books, 2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Indeed. The usual chatter of the clueless. Only very very few users on Anthrogenica show that they have grown over the years, the rest is the usual uneducated nonsense. I take this opportunity to respond to Richard Rocca who writes this "However, I think it premature to not take into account the "diverse individuals of central European, northern African and Near Eastern Ancestry" they found across the first millennium BCE. As we know, the Etruscans are sometimes seen as an elite that displaced the Umbrians. While some may balk at that, it is the history that was written (granted, by the Romans) and the IE speaking Romans themselves were ruled by non-IE speaking Etruscans."

    There are people far more knowledgeable than you who have already taken into account it. Maybe it really is time to start studying these topics seriously too. In etruscology studies the scenario reported does no longer exist. The idea that Etruscans are an elite that displaced the Umbrians was rejected many many many many years ago by archaeology. All Greek accounts on the origins of the Etruscans are no longer considered accounts that contain true events.

    Archaeologically, it has been known for over 50 years the presence of foreigners in Etruria: Celts, Greeks (from any part of the Greek worlds), Sardo-Nuragics, Sardo-Punics, Levantine and people from other areas of Italy and Europe. Etruria was for centuries one of the richest regions of Europe, and given the importance of trade in the Etruscan world, it is yet another discovery of hot water that there were foreigners in Etruria. But no scholar with a deep knowledge of the subject relates these foreigners to the origin of the Etruscans. For years. The relationship between the Etruscan and Rhaetic worlds dates back to prehistoric times. Not by chance, the copper of Otzi's axe came from the mines of southern Tuscany. It's quite incredible that everyone talks about Etruscans in 2021 and no one has read a single reference text, and they always repeat the same obsolete and outdated concepts.

    These texts in English may help to understand. Studying is not bad for health. Those of you who don't speak Italian are in luck, because today there are excellent texts in English. As an Etruscologist ironically said, be careful about talking nonsense and gibberish about the Etruscans, because the Etruscans will get you back.


    - "The Etruscan World", edited by Jean MacIntosh Turfa, Abingdon: Routledge, 2013

    - De Grummond, Nancy T. "Ethnicity and the Etruscans". In McInerney, Jeremy (ed.). "A Companion to Ethnicity in the Ancient Mediterranean". Chichester, UK: John Wiley & Sons, Inc. pp. 405–422, 2014

    - Smith, Christopher. "The Etruscans: A Very Short Introduction", Oxford University Press, Oxford 2014

    - "A Companion to the Etruscans", edited by S. Bell and A. Carpino, Wiley-Blackwell, 2016

    - "Etruscology", edited by Alessandro Naso, De Gruyter, Berlin, 2017

    - Turfa, Jean MacIntosh. "The Etruscans", in Farney, Gary D.; Bradley, Gary (eds.), "The Peoples of Ancient Italy". Berlin: De Gruyter. pp. 637–672, 2017

    - Shipley, Lucy. "The Etruscans: Lost Civilizations", London: Reaktion Books, 2017
    If I could give you ten upvotes I would.

    How anyone could write such nonsense about the Etruscans when all of this information is available for anyone to read is beyond me.

    Nice list, too. "The Etruscan World" compendium is one of the best investments I ever made in a book.

    Anyone who hasn't read the available material should have the sense to be silent.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    The issue of the Etruscans is one of the main problems regarding the IE, because if they also turn out to be P312 in addition to J2 and independently of the outliers that appear, then we could have a case similar to Iberia (Df27 in NO-IE and in IE peoples), i.e. in the Italian peninsula we would have Etruscans R1b-U152 NO-IE and Latins R1b-U152/ Z2103 IE. Regarding Mr Rocca, his work is very respectable, especially regarding my R1b-Df27-Z225 lineage, but he has long since become one of the guardians of the Kurganist orthodoxy. He together with Mr polako and others are trying to sustain an obsolete hypothesis regarding the linkage of r1b-L51>P312 with IE, I really don't think they are very interested in knowing the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Indeed. The usual chatter of the clueless. Only very very few users on Anthrogenica show that they have grown over the years, the rest is the usual uneducated nonsense. I take this opportunity to respond to Richard Rocca who writes this "However, I think it premature to not take into account the "diverse individuals of central European, northern African and Near Eastern Ancestry" they found across the first millennium BCE. As we know, the Etruscans are sometimes seen as an elite that displaced the Umbrians. While some may balk at that, it is the history that was written (granted, by the Romans) and the IE speaking Romans themselves were ruled by non-IE speaking Etruscans."

    There are people far more knowledgeable than you who have already taken into account it. Maybe it really is time to start studying these topics seriously too. In etruscology studies the scenario reported does no longer exist. The idea that Etruscans are an elite that displaced the Umbrians was rejected many many many many years ago by archaeology. All Greek accounts on the origins of the Etruscans are no longer considered accounts that contain true events.

    Archaeologically, it has been known for over 50 years the presence of foreigners in Etruria: Celts, Greeks (from any part of the Greek worlds), Sardo-Nuragics, Sardo-Punics, Levantine and people from other areas of Italy and Europe. Etruria was for centuries one of the richest regions of Europe, and given the importance of trade in the Etruscan world, it is yet another discovery of hot water that there were foreigners in Etruria. But no scholar with a deep knowledge of the subject relates these foreigners to the origin of the Etruscans. For years. The relationship between the Etruscan and Rhaetic worlds dates back to prehistoric times. Not by chance, the copper of Otzi's axe came from the mines of southern Tuscany. It's quite incredible that everyone talks about Etruscans in 2021 and no one has read a single reference text, and they always repeat the same obsolete and outdated concepts.

    These texts in English may help to understand. Studying is not bad for health. Those of you who don't speak Italian are in luck, because today there are excellent texts in English. As an Etruscologist ironically said, be careful about talking nonsense and gibberish about the Etruscans, because the Etruscans will get you back.


    - "The Etruscan World", edited by Jean MacIntosh Turfa, Abingdon: Routledge, 2013

    - De Grummond, Nancy T. "Ethnicity and the Etruscans". In McInerney, Jeremy (ed.). "A Companion to Ethnicity in the Ancient Mediterranean". Chichester, UK: John Wiley & Sons, Inc. pp. 405–422, 2014

    - Smith, Christopher. "The Etruscans: A Very Short Introduction", Oxford University Press, Oxford 2014

    - "A Companion to the Etruscans", edited by S. Bell and A. Carpino, Wiley-Blackwell, 2016

    - "Etruscology", edited by Alessandro Naso, De Gruyter, Berlin, 2017

    - Turfa, Jean MacIntosh. "The Etruscans", in Farney, Gary D.; Bradley, Gary (eds.), "The Peoples of Ancient Italy". Berlin: De Gruyter. pp. 637–672, 2017

    - Shipley, Lucy. "The Etruscans: Lost Civilizations", London: Reaktion Books, 2017

    I still find it amusing that people want to link an ethnic origin of Etruscans with Rhaeti when their is minuscule evidence ..................below is what scholars of rhaetic stated 3 years ago



    The term "Raetic" refers to a few hundred inscriptions found mainly in the Trentino and in South and North Tyrol, as well as sporadically in the Veneto, in Graubünden, and in Slovenia. These inscriptions, written with North Italic alphabets, are roughly dated between the 6th and the 1st centuries BC, and are the only documents of the Raetic language, a non-Indo-European language of the Alpine region.

    The Raetic language as documented in inscriptions written in the alphabets of Sanzeno (Bolzano) and Magrè has turned out to be much more homogenous than expected (or hoped) (see Modern research on the Raeti and Raetic). Despite the fact that its uniformity, though long suspected, has been demonstrated only in the 1990ies, linguistic criteria today make for a better basis for the definition of the Raetic corpus than e***raphic parameters.










    A full Raetic name consists of two parts: an individual name and a patronym (or possibly also a metronym). The latter is derived from an individual name by suffixation of -nu or -na; on the questions of the relation to Etruscan -na and whether the two variants reflect gender, see the morpheme pages. We have reason to believe that the Raetic patronymic system was productive at the time of it's documentation (Rix 1998: 18 f.) – a number of names are attested both as individual names and as base of a patronym, but most important is the testimony of ST-1, ST-2 and ST-3 with the names of three related men. The following names are attested as both individual name and patronym:

    kastrie (kaszrinu)
    piθam(n)e (piθamnu)
    remi (remina)
    visteχa (visteχanu)

    Even under the assumption that a considerable number of the names attested in the Raetic corpus are foreign, the lack of parallels with Etruscan in the sphere of onomastics is surprising.
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4p
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaska View Post
    The issue of the Etruscans is one of the main problems regarding the IE, because if they also turn out to be P312 in addition to J2 and independently of the outliers that appear, then we could have a case similar to Iberia (Df27 in NO-IE and in IE peoples), i.e. in the Italian peninsula we would have Etruscans R1b-U152 NO-IE and Latins R1b-U152/ Z2103 IE. Regarding Mr Rocca, his work is very respectable, especially regarding my R1b-Df27-Z225 lineage, but he has long since become one of the guardians of the Kurganist orthodoxy. He together with Mr polako and others are trying to sustain an obsolete hypothesis regarding the linkage of r1b-L51>P312 with IE, I really don't think they are very interested in knowing the truth.

    These are very popular issues on the forums, especially the one about associating Y-DNA with Iron Age ethnicities, which was fueled by geneticists in the 1990s who were completely unprepared about archaeology and anthropology, like the problem with IE languages was created by Indo-European linguists who still have an outdated and old approach. As Stuvané will be able to confirm, we talk about these things sometimes with academic scholars, and these very popular issues on the forums are not taken so seriously among scholars.


    Quote Originally Posted by torzio View Post
    I still find it amusing that people want to link an ethnic origin of Etruscans with Rhaeti when their is minuscule evidence ..................below is what scholars of rhaetic stated 3 years ago
    Like it or not, the Etruscan and Rhaetic languages are considered related. Archaeology suggests, along with a number of linguists, that the split between the two languages occurred before the end of the Bronze Age. So, the Raeti are not descended directly from the Etruscans, and the Etruscans are not descended directly from the Raeti either, but the Etruscans and Raeti do indeed have some remote ancestors.


    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    If I could give you ten upvotes I would.

    How anyone could write such nonsense about the Etruscans when all of this information is available for anyone to read is beyond me.

    Nice list, too. "The Etruscan World" compendium is one of the best investments I ever made in a book.

    Anyone who hasn't read the available material should have the sense to be silent.

    Grazie mille, Angela.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    That’s really neat PT, 4.7 gener. we’re Family to the Roman-Etruscan sample
    Yep, we are not only piasan to ETR001, but famiglia with ETR001. Hey, also kudos to you for keep reminding posters here that R850 is not a statistical outlier as you showed everyone with the Table from Antonio et al 2019. I have a pretty close Deep Dive with R850 and a smaller one with R437 that I saved a copy of, but it dropped out as more samples were added.. Although, R437 is very, very, close distance wise with every Calculator that I run more so than R850.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    not you … people use the term ‘Outliers’ too casually,… some with bias to discredit legit samples,

    No Latin outliers on the official list:



    https://science.sciencemag.org/conte...Antonio_SM.pdf
    Yeah, I kind of get that feeling as well. What, it is not enough that these samples existed in the Iron Age? They can't turn around and say, it was from mass immigration from the Imperial era for this sample. People believe what they want to believe. Frankly, I don't give a damn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Yep, we are not only piasan to ETR001, but famiglia with ETR001. Hey, also kudos to you for keep reminding posters here that R850 is not a statistical outlier as you showed everyone with the Table from Antonio et al 2019. I have a pretty close Deep Dive with R850 and a smaller one with R437 that I saved a copy of, but it dropped out as more samples were added.. Although, R437 is very, very, close distance wise with every Calculator that I run more so than R850.




    Thanks Jovialis and PT :)

    they’re the opposite of Outliers,

    … my deep dive shows a chromosome 8 and 20 continuity between R850 Ardea Latin and R437 Praeneste Latin, … all the way to R436 Roman Imperial Praeneste (chr 8)
    (and with many more samples too)

    The Latin and Roman from Praeneste are obviously genetically connected, R436 matches pretty much all R437 chromosomes positions:






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    Quote Originally Posted by brick View Post
    Dodecad K12

    Looks much closer to the PCA of the study the sample is from, compared to the other. Dodecad is much better than G25 imho

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    That should be very interesting paper...
    Maybe the 50% east- med shift in imperial time
    Came from greek colonies
    The problem i dont know how much influence of greeks was in erturia ....
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC7391/

    https://yfull.com/mtree/H3ap/

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    Does not anybody else find it interesting that the closest Greek area to the ETR001 sample is Lemnos? Lemnos has long been associated with Erturia at least linguistically. Was Lemnos an Etruscan colony? Or the reverse? It would be interesting if ancient Lemnos samples were analyzed for closeness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Does not anybody else find it interesting that the closest Greek area to the ETR001 sample is Lemnos? Lemnos has long been associated with Erturia at least linguistically. Was Lemnos an Etruscan colony? Or the reverse? It would be interesting if ancient Lemnos samples were analyzed for closeness.
    ETR001 is Roman of the late Imperial period, not Etruscan. In all the PCAs she is in the opposite side of Greeks, but that she may have partial Greek origins is possible, but this has nothing to do with the origins of the Etruscans that in the PCAs are positioned far from the Greeks and join the south-western European cluster. Lemnos was conquered by the Athenians and became Greek in all respects. I have read all of the most recent SAIA studies, Italian Archaeological School of Athens, and they have found no evidence that Lemnos is related to the origins of the Etruscans. On the contrary, the hypothesis that is considered most credible is that there were small groups of Etruscans from Cerveteri on the island.


    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    That should be very interesting paper...
    Maybe the 50% east- med shift in imperial time
    Came from greek colonies
    The problem i dont know how much influence of greeks was in erturia ....

    The Greeks have never had colonies in Etruria but their presence is attested, the Greeks are among the main interlocutors of the Etruscans and therefore they were not certainly few. But above all it depends on the zones of the Etruria and by which kind of Greeks. The Syracusan Greeks were considered almost always enemies, with the Foceian/Ionian Greeks very unstable relations, and with the Athenians there were often good relations. At Delphi in Greece the Etruscans brought gifts. In Tarquinia, southern Etruria (northern Lazio), for example, must have lived a Greek community from Ionia (Anatolia) around 600-500 BC that will not have been very small numerically. But if the shift occurred in the imperial era it is no longer something that depends on the Etruscans, but on the Romans. According to archeology in the settlements in Campania, southern Italy, the Etruscans were most likley very mixed with the Greeks and the sorrounding local populations.

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    I feel like the full paper will not come up until at least some weeks or even months pass by. If it was a matter of a couple days, they wouldn't put a preview at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    ETR001 is Roman, not Etruscan. In all the PCAs she is in the opposite side of Greeks, but that she may have partial Greek origins is possible, but this has nothing to do with the origins of the Etruscans that in the PCAs are positioned far from the Greeks and join the south-western European cluster. Lemnos was conquered by the Athenians and became Greek in all respects. I have read all of the most recent SAIA studies, Italian Archaeological School of Athens, and they have found no evidence that Lemnos is related to the origins of the Etruscans. On the contrary, the hypothesis that is considered most credible is that there were small groups of Etruscans from Cerveteri on the island.





    The Greeks have never had colonies in Etruria but their presence is attested, the Greeks are among the main interlocutors of the Etruscans and therefore they were not certainly few. But above all it depends on the zones of the Etruria and by which kind of Greeks. The Syracusan Greeks were considered almost always enemies, with the Foceian/Ionian Greeks very unstable relations, and with the Athenians there were often good relations. At Delphi in Greece the Etruscans brought gifts. In Tarquinia, southern Etruria (northern Lazio), for example, must have lived a Greek community from Ionia (Anatolia) around 600-500 BC that will not have been very small numerically. But if the shift occurred in the imperial era it is no longer something that depends on the Etruscans, but on the Romans. According to archeology in the settlements in Campania, southern Italy, the Etruscans were most likley very mixed with the Greeks and the sorrounding local populations.
    Lemnos was invaded by the Athenians and hellenized by them after 510 BC. Before then they were speaking a language that has a lot of commonality with the Etruscan language. Thucydides mention Tyrrhenians as the pre-Greek inhabitants. One theory is that mercenaries that the Myceneans hired from the Nuragic people of Sardenia, Sicily and other areas of Italy settled there. So there are some indications that Lemnians are related to Etruscans.
    Last edited by bigsnake49; 06-06-21 at 03:03.

  20. #70
    Regular Member Archetype0ne's Avatar
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    Are Nuragic people in any way related, archeologically/linguistically/genetically with the Etruscans? I know there was some connections genetically at least based on the Nuragic L283/Etruscan L283. But that Etruscan L283 was single in number, hence until these new samples come out, it could have been an outlier as far as YDNA is concerned.
    Pax you are the likeliest person to know the answer to this, given how read you are in Etruscology. Could you share your two cents?
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I don't know if there are genetic similarities between Etruscans and Nuragics but surely there have been contacts between Early Bronze Age Tuscany and Sardinia, it's demonstrated by archeology (similar material culture) and also by old physical anthropology: part of the skulls from the Bonnanaro culture resembles the ones from the Rinaldone culture. Obviously aDNA is more reliable



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    Quote Originally Posted by Cato View Post
    I don't know if there are genetic similarities between Etruscans and Nuragics but surely there have been contacts between Early Bronze Age Tuscany and Sardinia, it's demonstrated by archeology (similar material culture) and also by old physical anthropology: part of the skulls from the Bonnanaro culture resembles the ones from the Rinaldone culture. Obviously aDNA is more reliable



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    I have to read up on those cultures.

    Yeah, that is why I was careful when I worded my comment. Since I myself doubt there is genetic similarities, but for sure there was some relations between Sardinia / Etruscans (L283 as far as YDNA goes, if it was not an outlier, again I chose my wording). But then again YDNA is just part of the picture, auDNA should clear the rest of the argument, and I am not really familiar on the auDNA part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bigsnake49 View Post
    Lemnos was invaded by the Athenians and hellenized by them after 510 BC. Before then they were speaking a language that has a lot of commonality with the Etruscan language. Thucydides mention Tyrrhenians as the pre-Greek inhabitants. One theory is that mercenaries that the Mycenean hired from the Nuragic people of Sardenia settled there. So there are some indications that Lemnians are related to Etruscans.
    as far as i remember the etruscans had lemnos as a trading stopover, it was never an invasion

    Etruscans did take corscia from the greeks and in the end allied with the Greeks against carthagians

    here is etruscans in corsica

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-f...-idUSKCN1R81EY

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Archetype0ne View Post
    But then again YDNA is just part of the picture, auDNA should clear the rest of the argument, and I am not really familiar on the auDNA part.
    Well, Etruscans had substantial steppe ancestry while Nuragics Sardinians were pure EEF/WHG so not a great affinity. Hopefully Pax Augusta will answer your question


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