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Thread: Genomes from 82 Etruscans and Southern Italians.(800 BCE – 1,000 CE).

  1. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    We have a Greek trader of the Roman period whose remains are pretty similar to Mycenaeans. There's no way of knowing if he came from the mainland or the islands, and anyway, one sample is not enough.

    We need to wait for more data.
    I'm aware of the existence of this sample it is just i can't wait for upcoming samples from southeast Europe which are rumored to be heterogenous, some having more steppe and others are going to be anatolian like we just have to wait I guess

  2. #127
    Moderator Pax Augusta's Avatar
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    I'll comment tomorrow.

    @ Aspurg

    Redefining Pre-Indo-European Language Families of Bronze Age Western Europe: A Study Based on the Synthesis of Scientific Evidence From Archaeology, Historical Linguistics and Genetics

    https://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/article/view/12398

  3. #128
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aspurg View Post
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...08.19.256412v1
    A Hungarian study. Female but she closely clusters autosomally with earlier Hungarian "Scythians", at whose two sites Gava urns were found (and I found that in some Hungarian archeological sources). So Hungarian Scythians were direct descendants of the Gava culture people as I have predicted some months before this new study. One Hungarian Scythian was R-YP340. Ottomany culture sample from the study is R-Z280. Gava developed on the Ottomany basis in good part.



    Upcoming Bulgarian study shows two samples of Pšeničevo culture are E-V13. 15 year old sample of the same culture shows the same. Pšeničevo is ultimately derived of Girla Mare/Dubovac. This culture is considered by the archeologists to have been non-IE. Having 3 out of 3 finds from two sites belong to the same hg shows its strong relation to it.

    Pšeničevo was Thracian ofc but in the previous stage it is known Gava people merged with Girla Mare people.



    Material cultures can be and are in great many cases directly associated with different linguistic and genetic makeup. Otherwise Yamnaya or the EEF's would not have been so uniform...

    I am talking of proto-Villanovan culture. Proto-Villanovan urns were very similar to Gava urns..



    Per some old sources Raetic speakers were migrants from the South. Also remember that in the Balkans existed the Lemnian language. I know some of your have dismissed them as Etruscan traders but in the light of new finds connecting the E-V13 demographic expansion with Girla Mare, the fact that E-V13 is a Neolithic hg stemming from Western Balkans, as well as the nature of Girla Mare cultures, such views must be taken with great reserve.

    I do not want this discussion to descend into petty nationalism where some members of modern day X, Y, Z ethnicities consider certain old cultures as part of their own identity and that therefore they must originate within the territory of the X, Y, Z ethnicity, as ofc its modern descendants are legitimate heirs and for some culture to have originated elsewhere is an affront to the "modern national unity and cohesion".. It cannot be an affront, there are no modern Etruscans speakers anymore and only Etruscan speakers would have a right to bring such an argument to the table.

    The last time I talked about this it did have such undertones..
    Transmission of the alphabet to and within Italy

    https://www.univie.ac.at/raetica/wiki/Script
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4p
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

  4. #129
    Regular Member Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    I'll comment tomorrow.

    @ Aspurg

    Redefining Pre-Indo-European Language Families of Bronze Age Western Europe: A Study Based on the Synthesis of Scientific Evidence From Archaeology, Historical Linguistics and Genetics

    https://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/article/view/12398
    This paper seems very contradicting. Like linking E-V13 with Proto-Celtic, Tumulus Culture and Urnfield with Tyrsenian languages.

  5. #130
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    I'll comment tomorrow.

    @ Aspurg

    Redefining Pre-Indo-European Language Families of Bronze Age Western Europe: A Study Based on the Synthesis of Scientific Evidence From Archaeology, Historical Linguistics and Genetics

    https://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/article/view/12398
    I havn't read completely; seems to me a bit aventurous.

  6. #131
    Moderator Pax Augusta's Avatar
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    3 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    This paper seems very contradicting. Like linking E-V13 with Proto-Celtic, Tumulus Culture and Urnfield with Tyrsenian languages.
    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    I havn't read completely; seems to me a bit aventurous.
    Of course, I agree with you, it's very very adventurous and contradicting.

    I posted this not because I believe the conclusions are accurate, but because it is an excellent example of what kind of very far-fetched conclusions can arise when trying to match historical, archaeological, and genetic data at all costs.

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