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Thread: Genomes from 82 Etruscans and Southern Italians.(800 BCE – 1,000 CE).

  1. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    From a conference, not published yet.



    In fact, they have few samples from the imperial age. There are many more from the Iron Age.

    The important part of the paper remains the one on the origins of the Etruscans.
    The one on the genetic legacy of the Etruscans seems the weakest.

    The bolded part is important and the Y Dna and mtdna figures therein need to be compared to modern Tuscany and Northern Lazio.
    After all to the south, Etruria originally ended at Veii, just north of the Tiber mouth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    From a conference, not published yet.



    In fact, they have few samples from the imperial age. There are many more from the Iron Age.

    The important part of the paper remains the one on the origins of the Etruscans. The one on the genetic legacy of the Etruscans seems the weakest.

    Thanks for the information. Do you have any information regarding Y HG J, are they only J2b, as we already know, or are there any J2a's as well?. Grazie mille

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    From a conference, not published yet.



    In fact, they have few samples from the imperial age. There are many more from the Iron Age.

    The important part of the paper remains the one on the origins of the Etruscans. The one on the genetic legacy of the Etruscans seems the weakest.
    Very intriguing, do you know if the VEN samples are from the Iron Age?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Very intriguing, do you know if the VEN samples are from the Iron Age?

    Still unclear, it doesn't even seem to match the samples from the Campania study.


    Quote Originally Posted by Vallicanus View Post
    The bolded part is important and the Y Dna and mtdna figures therein need to be compared to modern Tuscany and Northern Lazio.
    After all to the south, Etruria originally ended at Veii, just north of the Tiber mouth.

    Indeed. Considering the changes due to Romanization though. I hope that very soon there will be Etruscan samples from Emilia-Romagna, and samples from the rest of northern Italy, the Raeti, Veneti, Golasecca culture, Ligurians... On how Bologna and surroundings have become Etruscan since early Villanovan I think there is no consensus yet (Settlers from Tuscany or Etruscan since the prehistory?). While the consensus for Campania is that the Etruscan presence in Campania was surely due to Villanovan/Etruscans settlers from northern Latium.


    For the upcoming paper on Magna Graecia - Campania. The Villanovan/Etruscan samples are all from Campania here.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan.delajara View Post
    Thanks for the information. Do you have any information regarding Y HG J, are they only J2b, as we already know, or are there any J2a's as well?. Grazie mille
    No, I don't know, sorry. I think publication should be forthcoming.

  6. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    Still unclear, it doesn't even seem to match the samples from the Campania study.





    Indeed. Considering the changes due to Romanization though. I hope that very soon there will be Etruscan samples from Emilia-Romagna, and samples from the rest of northern Italy, the Raeti, Veneti, Golasecca culture, Ligurians... On how Bologna and surroundings have become Etruscan since early Villanovan I think there is no consensus yet (Settlers from Tuscany or Etruscan since the prehistory?). While the consensus for Campania is that the Etruscan presence in Campania was surely due to Villanovan/Etruscans settlers from northern Latium.


    For the upcoming paper on Magna Graecia - Campania. The Villanovan/Etruscan samples are all from Campania here.





    so this from magna graecia paper
    should be very cool thanks for sharing
    if someone
    will have a leak about there y haplogroups that would be cool

    p.s
    if the greek euboean site is only 1 person or 1 site
    that reduce the chance to find e-v13
    but maybe one of the italic would surprise us....
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    No, I don't know, sorry. I think publication should be forthcoming.
    Grazie lo stesso.

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    I think we can lay to rest the idea that J2b was a founding lineage of the Etruscan=

    Maciamo's chart shows 52.5 percent R1b in Tuscany. Combined J1 and J2 is 13.5%.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think we can lay to rest the idea that J2b was a founding lineage of the Etruscan=

    Maciamo's chart shows 52.5 percent R1b in Tuscany. Combined J1 and J2 is 13.5%.
    This is the latest July 2021 chart from a non-academic Italian project.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    This is the latest July 2021 chart from a non-academic Italian project.

    Interesting, for E-V13 this map alone is helpful to confirm that there seem to have been two to three centres, one in the North West, rather associated with Hallstatt, Ligurian and Lombards, the other in the very South East, associated with Greeks and Balkan people, including Albanians from rather recent times and possibly a third one Sicily even more associated with Greeks and Balkan people up to Roman times (?). Contrary to some other regions of the North, the association of R1a+I2 with E1b1b is not there in North Eastern Italy, but that is no such big suprise, considering that Slovenians have an exceptionally low amount as well and its mostly from the Slovenes that the Slavic and R1a in the North East might be coming from. On the other hand J2 might correlate with E1b1b, which might point to the clear Balkan, Greek and especially Illyrian association.
    I1 and E1b1b have even in the North only a little bit of an overlap, but the most in Monza and less suprisingly Southern Tyrol. The Monza case might be pure chance, but it has a background of pile dwellings, Celtic Insumbres and Lombard settlement:
    Berengar I of Italy (850924) located his headquarters in Monza. A fortified castrum was constructed to resist the incursions of the Hungarians. Under Berengar's reign, Monza enjoyed a certain degree of independence: it had its own system of weights and measures, and could also seize property and mark the deeds with their signatures. Berengar was very generous evident by the donation of numerous works to the Monza Cathedral, including the famous cross, and by giving large benefits to its 32 canons and other churches.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monza

    Less suprising is Genua as a centre of E-V13, like the Garibaldis.

  11. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Angela View Post
    I think we can lay to rest the idea that J2b was a founding lineage of the Etruscan=

    Maciamo's chart shows 52.5 percent R1b in Tuscany. Combined J1 and J2 is 13.5%.
    The thing is. It is a double edged sword.
    We have the first confirmed Etrsucan from around 750BC L283, from that one 2019 paper.

    The only sample of Y-DNA extracted belonged to haplogroup J-M12 (J2b-L283), found in an individual dated 700-600 BC
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7093155/

    Now we have the Max Planck paper stating that the Etruscan R1b was of Steppe ancestry (just like L283, if cut by the same sword).

    Now the conclusion, is the first cultural/philologic survival of a language despite inundation by alien yDNA. Meaning those G2a-s (if indeed Tyrhenian/Pelasgic/pre-IE) were the de facto original (proto)Etruscans.


    But then... We know that Etruscans without the script and the orientalization period, would have been barely a blip in history, with no script or culture to show for it. So you can not have Etrsucans as just G2a, without the IE R1b/J2b, or without the finer culture Orientals.

    This in my mind is the most objective perspective. Otherwise, our sword, is a butter knife that cuts just one way and that, barely.
    “Man cannot live without a permanent trust in something indestructible in himself, and at the same time that indestructible something as well as his trust in it may remain permanently concealed from him.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    This is the latest July 2021 chart from a non-academic Italian project.
    Thank you very much!
    Could you tell us from which project are the maps?

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    I2 in sardinian is very strong
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-Z282

  14. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    thanks
    where did you get this
    since this
    paper is not published yet ?
    or am i worng ?
    The graphic is included in the supplementary section of this paper by Posth et al. (Fig. S5) as a complete form. Supplementary tables are missing from the section but it is worth reading through it.

    https://www.science.org/action/downl...abi7673_SM.pdf
    Давайте вместе снова сделаем мир великий!

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