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Thread: National Socialist SS RuSHA Race Classification

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    National Socialist SS RuSHA Race Classification

    I'm trying to fully recreate the way how the NS classified race (purely for educational purpose).

    In the case of Europeans(Aryans), they looked for 2 things:
    1. No non-Aryan genetics (Jew, Asian, Mongoloid, Oriental, Black, Indian, etc.)
    2. As many 'Nordic ideal' components (blonde hair, blue eyes, slim body, tall, etc.)

    No non-Aryan genetics
    The concept of pure Aryan genetics isn't hard to understand and is very well documented[1], and we know how this worked.
    Aryan was not limited to Nordic race, or location, Aryan could be a German, French, English, Czech, Ukrainian, American, Australian, etc.

    Nordic ideal
    However the same cannot be said about the more advanced RuSHA classification.
    Most of the information was taken from Skadi Forum[2], but I will try to make it as simple as possible.

    This document[3] was taken from book[4] Rasse, Siedlung, deutches Blut. Das Rasse- und Siedlungshauptamt der SS und die rassenpolitische Neuordnung Europas by Isabel Heinemann.

    This is the SS Racial card, and translation I made for it (I'm not German so there might be some small mistakes).

    The Front

    Original: https://i.ibb.co/zH2Y4ZF/front.png
    Translated: https://i.ibb.co/VvFChYd/front-eng.png


    The back

    Original: https://i.ibb.co/TPS0S53/back.png
    Translated: https://i.ibb.co/WBV5K8T/back-eng.png


    They also used IBM punch cards, which I also made into english.

    The punch card

    Original: https://i.ibb.co/3RzgbMz/kart.png
    Translated: https://i.ibb.co/PCRVZJ4/kart-eng.png


    Numbers 22-42 are self explanatory, 1 was the best, 5 was the worst.
    Number 43 was the physical level of person, where 9 was the best, 1 was the worst.
    Number 44 and 45 were racial categories, ranging from 'pure Nordic' to 'extra-European origin'.
    Number 46 was the sum up of numbers 43-45.

    Later they added category III+ for the number 46.



    Numbers 50-62 represent the races.
    N - Nordid
    F - Dalofaelid
    D - Dinarid
    ...

    And finally the number 63 represents the final formula of a person, there are some examples.

    N.d.w. 5 c A III - RuS II
    nr. 50-62 capital N - mainly Nordid, small d, w - some Dinarid and Med elemets.
    nr. 43 - 5
    nr. 44 - c
    nr. 45 - AIII
    nr. 46 - RuS II

    W.n.o. 5 d B II - RuS IV
    N.f.ob. 5 c A III - RuS II
    O.w.n. (-?) 4 d B II - RuS IV
    Ob.o.d. 4 d B II - RuS IV
    N.ob.o (w?) 5 c/d B I - Rus III
    n.d.ob. (w?) 4 c A III - RuS II
    ...
    There's more in the original post.


    The problem
    There are quite big problem with this, and also the reason I'm creating this post.
    I don't know how they filled out the numbers 43-46, 50-62.
    They obviously did so based on the categories 22-42, but I couldn't find any actual information
    If anybody knows how these might be calculated, I will appreciate it a lot.
    Any helpful information will be welcome too.


    [1] https://dirkdeklein.files.wordpress....in-english.gif
    [2] https://forums.skadi.net/threads/101...ion-Candidates
    [3] http://wwwu.aau.at/hstockha/neu/Mate...hropologie.pdf
    [4] https://www.researchgate.net/publica...rdnung_Europas

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    See central Europe, Czech as a proxy for modern German in this chart. Older German samples are basically the following mixtures:

    So in simple terms, European paleolithic hunter-gatherer, mixed with Caucasian hunter-gatherers/Iran_N and Anatolian_N.

    However more recent studies show there was a post-bronze age migration of Nganasan like ancestry into Northern Europe, see TC Lamnidis et al 2018 :



    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-07483-5

    The classic Nordic phenotype: Blonde Hair and Blue eyes, are a mutation that probably developed in the Eastern Baltic region during the Bronze Age, according to Saag et al. 2019:

    Furthermore, phenotypic characteristics often associated withmodern Northern Europeans (light eyes, hair, and skin ***mentation and lactose tolerance) can be traced back to the Bronze Agein the Eastern Baltic.

    https://www.cell.com/current-biology...19)30424-5.pdf

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    Blue eyes developed way before that, and were in all the WHG population, but yes, the Nordic phenotype itself developed around the middle age.
    I've seen some interesting theories as it's not yet confirmed, but among the popular theories is the fact that it might have been caused by consuming dairy products, the EEF adxmiture who were more light skinned and light haired than WHG, and breeding preference also played role in that.

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    This was in regards to the combination of Blonde hair, blue eyes, and light skin tone that forms the Nordic phenotype . Cheddar man had a dark skin-tone.

    I am not sure why you think it formed in the middle ages though.

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    My bad I meant to say bronze age instead of middle age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemianLegionar View Post
    My bad I meant to say bronze age instead of middle age.
    It should also be noted that there was an across the board increase of CHG/IN and Anatolian_N from the Iron Age, onward. (See the first chart) I am not sure if this may have to do with migrations and/or mixing from Southern Europe and Northern Europe, or perhaps it was selected against HG DNA; maybe both.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Needless to say, all their ideas were crap, not least because the theories and "classifications" were created before the application of the tools of statistics to ancient dna and the modern understanding of how all West Eurasian groups formed.

    One of the more amusing parts of all this is that so many of the top leaders were so completely far from their physical "ideal", but then who would expect logic from madmen.

    Eichmann-He looks like an Ashkenazi accountant. :)


    Goebbels: club foot and all. Clearly he married to change the appearance of his own bloodline. She was just as insane as he was; she murdered all their six children because she didn't want them to live in a world without National Socialism.



    Colonel Claus Von Stauffenberg, aristocrat and career officer who tried to assasinate Hitler and unfortunately failed, looked much more the part. He was, on top of every thing else, a devout Catholic if I'm not mistaken, and an erudite and cultured man, on top of his undoubted good looks.

    Another doctrine thrown into the dustbin of history.


    Non si fa il proprio dovere perchè qualcuno ci dica grazie, lo si fa per principio, per se stessi, per la propria dignità. Oriana Fallaci

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    ^^Indeed, it is clearly a pseudoscience created by benighted fanatics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemianLegionar View Post
    I'm trying to fully recreate the way how the NS classified race (purely for educational purpose).

    In the case of Europeans(Aryans), they looked for 2 things:
    1. No non-Aryan genetics (Jew, Asian, Mongoloid, Oriental, Black, Indian, etc.)
    2. As many 'Nordic ideal' components (blonde hair, blue eyes, slim body, tall, etc.)

    No non-Aryan genetics
    The concept of pure Aryan genetics isn't hard to understand and is very well documented[1], and we know how this worked.
    Aryan was not limited to Nordic race, or location, Aryan could be a German, French, English, Czech, Ukrainian, American, Australian, etc.

    Nordic ideal
    However the same cannot be said about the more advanced RuSHA classification.
    Most of the information was taken from Skadi Forum[2], but I will try to make it as simple as possible.

    This document[3] was taken from book[4] Rasse, Siedlung, deutches Blut. Das Rasse- und Siedlungshauptamt der SS und die rassenpolitische Neuordnung Europas by Isabel Heinemann.

    This is the SS Racial card, and translation I made for it (I'm not German so there might be some small mistakes).

    The Front

    Original: https://i.ibb.co/zH2Y4ZF/front.png
    Translated: https://i.ibb.co/VvFChYd/front-eng.png


    The back

    Original: https://i.ibb.co/TPS0S53/back.png
    Translated: https://i.ibb.co/WBV5K8T/back-eng.png


    They also used IBM punch cards, which I also made into english.

    The punch card

    Original: https://i.ibb.co/3RzgbMz/kart.png
    Translated: https://i.ibb.co/PCRVZJ4/kart-eng.png


    Numbers 22-42 are self explanatory, 1 was the best, 5 was the worst.
    Number 43 was the physical level of person, where 9 was the best, 1 was the worst.
    Number 44 and 45 were racial categories, ranging from 'pure Nordic' to 'extra-European origin'.
    Number 46 was the sum up of numbers 43-45.

    Later they added category III+ for the number 46.



    Numbers 50-62 represent the races.
    N - Nordid
    F - Dalofaelid
    D - Dinarid
    ...

    And finally the number 63 represents the final formula of a person, there are some examples.

    N.d.w. 5 c A III - RuS II
    nr. 50-62 capital N - mainly Nordid, small d, w - some Dinarid and Med elemets.
    nr. 43 - 5
    nr. 44 - c
    nr. 45 - AIII
    nr. 46 - RuS II

    W.n.o. 5 d B II - RuS IV
    N.f.ob. 5 c A III - RuS II
    O.w.n. (-?) 4 d B II - RuS IV
    Ob.o.d. 4 d B II - RuS IV
    N.ob.o (w?) 5 c/d B I - Rus III
    n.d.ob. (w?) 4 c A III - RuS II
    ...
    There's more in the original post.


    The problem
    There are quite big problem with this, and also the reason I'm creating this post.
    I don't know how they filled out the numbers 43-46, 50-62.
    They obviously did so based on the categories 22-42, but I couldn't find any actual information
    If anybody knows how these might be calculated, I will appreciate it a lot.
    Any helpful information will be welcome too.


    [1] https://dirkdeklein.files.wordpress....in-english.gif
    [2] https://forums.skadi.net/threads/101...ion-Candidates
    [3] http://wwwu.aau.at/hstockha/neu/Mate...hropologie.pdf
    [4] https://www.researchgate.net/publica...rdnung_Europas
    would be kinda useless to try to understand it. not only because it is obviously nonsense but also because it constantly changed and was more of a political tool. in the end i think all westeurasians, for example even egyptians, that were allied with nazi germany were considered aryan.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I don't see the point.
    There is nothing scientific about it.
    We could as well start a thread discussing whether the earth is flat.

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    @Angela
    Yea it's quite ironic, I think they looked up on this fact as "they're doing it for better of their nation", although some like Heydrich matched this ideal for example.

    @Jovialis
    I think pseudo science was the fact that they gave these 6 European races description of their behavior.
    The existence of those races itself is valid, even if I don't agree about the superiority of one of these 6 races.

    @Aichu
    I don't agree, to me it seems interesting to understand how this worked. It realistically never changed as they kept this view until they started losing war after which like you said told some semitic nations like Egyptians, and some others that they consider them Aryan so they would get more manpower, but they realistically did so purely because of the loss of war.

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    @bicicleur 2
    That is why this is under history.
    I'm not here to defend their ideas, but to find out how they operated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemianLegionar;625673....
    ...that they consider them Aryan so they would get more manpower, but they realistically did so purely because of the loss of war.
    and what makes you so sure that it wasn't the exact same thing with everyone else they allied with or wanted as allies in beginning, middle and end of war? their need for allies was big from the beginning not just at the end of the war.
    and how do you want to get someone as a good allie if you officially consider him inferior?

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by BohemianLegionar View Post
    @Angela
    Yea it's quite ironic, I think they looked up on this fact as "they're doing it for better of their nation", although some like Heydrich matched this ideal for example.
    @Jovialis
    I think pseudo science was the fact that they gave these 6 European races description of their behavior.
    The existence of those races itself is valid, even if I don't agree about the superiority of one of these 6 races.
    @Aichu
    I don't agree, to me it seems interesting to understand how this worked. It realistically never changed as they kept this view until they started losing war after which like you said told some semitic nations like Egyptians, and some others that they consider them Aryan so they would get more manpower, but they realistically did so purely because of the loss of war.
    The idea of their "purity" is the true pseudoscience, as I have demonstrated. Since we are all combinations of various source populations. If these source populations existed in unmixed form today, some of the old anthropologists may have considered them different races. Nevertheless, there are genetic clusters that do form distinct ethnic groups.

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    @Aichu
    I'm sure, because they didn't consider Hungarians, Finnish and Japanese as Aryan, even though they were their allies even when they weren't losing.

    @Jovialis
    From nowadays perspective on the way they did this purification yes.
    I think if they had the technology we have today they would look for people, who have only WHG, EEF and Yamnaya admixture, if such people even exist, it's just hypothetical, but it's still important/interesting to understand how they did this as it's part of recent history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BohemianLegionar View Post
    @Aichu
    I'm sure, because they didn't consider Hungarians, Finnish and Japanese as Aryan, even though they were their allies even when they weren't losing.

    @Jovialis
    From nowadays perspective on the way they did this purification yes.
    I think if they had the technology we have today they would look for people, who have only WHG, EEF and Yamnaya admixture, if such people even exist, it's just hypothetical, but it's still important/interesting to understand how they did this as it's part of recent history.
    If so, they would be disappointed to find people strictly of those three components (which are within and of themselves combinations of other populations) apparently ceased to exist in the post-Bronze Age. However, the Nazis did allow some wiggle room for some small amount of non-approved admixture in their race laws, I guess.

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    I don't think they would start killing themselves after finding ~2% of Neanderthal admixture in Europeans, but we can see they somewhat cared about the not so big parts in Hungarians, or Finns.
    Interesting would be how they would deal with Spanish who have some African admixture, but nobody can be certain about that.
    It definitely would be less pseudo science like you said regarding the Aryan admixture, but the way how they would look at the European races/phenotypes wouldn't change so much probably.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I think there is too much overlap between modern and ancient populations to have their ideas work in any way meaningful. Also, they would be disappointed to find that the phenotypes of these source populations do not look like them.

    It is best to throw Nazi race theories in the garbage, one of the reasons is they do not work with modern genetics.

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    2 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I think there is too much overlap between modern and ancient populations to have their ideas work in any way meaningful. Also, they would be disappointed to find that the phenotypes of these source populations do not look like them.

    It is best to throw Nazi race theories in the garbage, one of the reasons is they do not work with modern genetics.
    On that note, nothing further of value can be yielded from this thread. We have already went over the genetics. I think the time has come to close it.

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