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Thread: YFull: What does an * mean?

  1. #1
    Regular Member lescoyi's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-S14393
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b1b1-b*

    Country: UK - England



    1 members found this post helpful.

    YFull: What does an * mean?

    I uploaded my FTDNA mtDNA to YFull. They have allocated my U5b1b1-T16192C! to U5b1b1-b*. They state in the help file that back mutations (T16192C!) cause a problem with MTree positioning. I have also read elsewhere that an * means tested negative for all known subclades. So, I'm assuming they're interpretation is due to the back mutation problem. However, I have also read that an * assignment indicates awaiting classification as possible new subclade. There 12 others is this grouping in the MTree. Thanks for any comments. I'm the 'new' antry at top. The VK143 entry is-

    Sample: VK143 / UK_Oxford_#7
    Location: St_John’s_College_Oxford, Oxford, England, UK
    Age: Viking 880-1000 CE
    Y-DNA: R-Y13833
    FTDNA Comment: Splits R-Y13816. Derived for 6 ancestral for 3. New path = R-Y13816>R-Y13833
    mtDNA: U5b1b1-T16192C!
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by lescoyi View Post
    I uploaded my FTDNA mtDNA to YFull. They have allocated my U5b1b1-T16192C! to U5b1b1-b*. They state in the help file that back mutations (T16192C!) cause a problem with MTree positioning. I have also read elsewhere that an * means tested negative for all known subclades. So, I'm assuming they're interpretation is due to the back mutation problem. However, I have also read that an * assignment indicates awaiting classification as possible new subclade. There 12 others is this grouping in the MTree. Thanks for any comments. I'm the 'new' antry at top. The VK143 entry is-

    Sample: VK143 / UK_Oxford_#7
    Location: St_John’s_College_Oxford, Oxford, England, UK
    Age: Viking 880-1000 CE
    Y-DNA: R-Y13833
    FTDNA Comment: Splits R-Y13816. Derived for 6 ancestral for 3. New path = R-Y13816>R-Y13833
    mtDNA: U5b1b1-T16192C!

    * means end of the line .............sometimes forever and sometimes not......my wife had a * for 7 years on her mtdna ............in the last month they found another where they match down the tree , but a new branch
    Fathers mtdna ... T2b17
    Grandfather mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ... K1a4p
    Mum paternal line ... R1b-S8172
    Grandmum paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ... R1a-Z282

  3. #3
    Regular Member lescoyi's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    MtDNA haplogroup
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    Country: UK - England



    torzio, thanks. So tested negative for all 'current' subclades (end of line), I think that's what your saying. Ref your wife's * and her match on another branch. On my 'MT Matches' listing, I have many matches down the list that are on other 'branches', ......1b1, 1b1a, 1b1a1. Different subclades but all shown in my matches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lescoyi View Post
    torzio, thanks. So tested negative for all 'current' subclades (end of line), I think that's what your saying. Ref your wife's * and her match on another branch. On my 'MT Matches' listing, I have many matches down the list that are on other 'branches', ......1b1, 1b1a, 1b1a1. Different subclades but all shown in my matches.
    It's not important that you have them in your list, what matters is the genetic distance. Like I got a new subclade on YFull. So far only people at a GD of 0 are in it. Will be pretty much the same for others too, considering how slowly mtDNA mutates. If you have someone at 0 GD, you could ask for them to upload to YFull, probably they give you a new subclade. If you have no 0 GD matches, you just don't have close mitochondrial DNA relatives at the moment.

  5. #5
    Regular Member lescoyi's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
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    Country: UK - England



    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    It's not important that you have them in your list, what matters is the genetic distance. Like I got a new subclade on YFull. So far only people at a GD of 0 are in it. Will be pretty much the same for others too, considering how slowly mtDNA mutates. If you have someone at 0 GD, you could ask for them to upload to YFull, probably they give you a new subclade. If you have no 0 GD matches, you just don't have close mitochondrial DNA relatives at the moment.
    I have to correct my earlier post. My MTree matches are in the SAME haplogroup as me, but some have different "Teminal" haplogroups (the ones mentioned), and are shown in the full MTree in those hg's

    Also, I contacted the U5 group admin re the assigned haplogroup, and why it differs from FTDNA's. Was advised that YFull update the tree every 4-6 weeks with new/revised date, hence more up to date hg designations than FTDNA.

    Thanks Riverman. I understand the GD thing. Unfortunately, I only have GD 1, 2, 3 in my FTDNA matches. I have exact matches, but only at HVR 1 level. I am pleased to see some of my 'Full Sequence' GD 1 matches have uploaded to YFull.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lescoyi View Post
    I have to correct my earlier post. My MTree matches are in the SAME haplogroup as me, but some have different "Teminal" haplogroups (the ones mentioned), and are shown in the full MTree in those hg's

    Also, I contacted the U5 group admin re the assigned haplogroup, and why it differs from FTDNA's. Was advised that YFull update the tree every 4-6 weeks with new/revised date, hence more up to date hg designations than FTDNA.

    Thanks Riverman. I understand the GD thing. Unfortunately, I only have GD 1, 2, 3 in my FTDNA matches. I have exact matches, but only at HVR 1 level. I am pleased to see some of my 'Full Sequence' GD 1 matches have uploaded to YFull.
    I have a couple of 0 GD matches on FTDNA, but like for you, FTDNA didn't update its tree, I'm still in the generic basal branch there. YFull on the other hand created a new subclade for me and my 0 GD matches, as far as they uploaded there or being from scientific samples. FTDNA seems to somewhat neglect their mtDNA tree from my point of view. Its the opposite to yDNA, where FTDNA usually has more and better branch building than YFull, because so many don't upload there.

  7. #7
    Regular Member torzio's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    T1a2 - SK1480
    MtDNA haplogroup
    H95a

    Ethnic group
    North Italian
    Country: Australia



    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I have a couple of 0 GD matches on FTDNA, but like for you, FTDNA didn't update its tree, I'm still in the generic basal branch there. YFull on the other hand created a new subclade for me and my 0 GD matches, as far as they uploaded there or being from scientific samples. FTDNA seems to somewhat neglect their mtDNA tree from my point of view. Its the opposite to yDNA, where FTDNA usually has more and better branch building than YFull, because so many don't upload there.

    agree .....................like my ydna marker, found by Ftdna and use.........is in Yfull and I am noted positive for it in yfull, but they do not use it

  8. #8
    Regular Member lescoyi's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-S14393
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b1b1-b*

    Country: UK - England



    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    I have a couple of 0 GD matches on FTDNA, but like for you, FTDNA didn't update its tree, I'm still in the generic basal branch there. YFull on the other hand created a new subclade for me and my 0 GD matches, as far as they uploaded there or being from scientific samples. FTDNA seems to somewhat neglect their mtDNA tree from my point of view. Its the opposite to yDNA, where FTDNA usually has more and better branch building than YFull, because so many don't upload there.
    I can well believe FTDNA are slow implementing changes for their mtDNA customers. More people do YDNA tests, so that's where their attention is mostly focused. It's frustrating. I am so please that I uploaded to YFull. For the low cost you get a lot of interesting data, and are added to an up to date tree. Pleases especially with my Matches detail there, and my Mutations info. Their general presentation is good. I joined the U5 group project and their map feature is great. £18 well spent.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    FTDNA mtHaplotree is structured acc. to http://www.phylotree.org./tree/index.htm (last updated 2016).
    Some of the companies that "predict" the mtHg based on testing of a limited number of snp's (like 23andme ; LivingDNA) might be using an even older version of it.
    https://dna-explained.com/2017/03/24...mily-tree-dna/

  10. #10
    Regular Member lescoyi's Avatar
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    Y-DNA haplogroup
    I-S14393
    MtDNA haplogroup
    U5b1b1-b*

    Country: UK - England



    Thanks for that, td120. I only just joined YFull but I believe they use Genbank and include data from excavated remains. I'm same haplogroup at LivingDNA, 23andMe and FTDNA. YFull classify this as mentioned above.

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