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    Arabo-Persian Gulf Basin possible homeland of Basal Eurasians?

    Arabian Peninsula is strategic for investigations centred on the structuring of the modern human population in the three main groups, in the awake of the out-of-Africa migration. Despite the poor climatic conditions for recovery of ancient DNA human evidence in Arabia, the availability of genomic data from neighbouring ancient specimens and of informative statistical tools allow better modelling the ancestry of these populations. We applied this approach to a dataset of 741,000 variants screened in 291 Arabians and 78 Iranians, and obtained insightful evidence. The west-east axis was a strong forcer of population structure in the Peninsula, and, more importantly, there were clear continuums throughout time linking west Arabia with Levant, and east Arabia with Iran and Caucasus. East Arabians also displayed the highest levels of the basal Eurasian lineage of all tested modern-day populations, a signal that was maintained even after correcting for possible bias due to recent sub-Saharan African input in their genomes. Not surprisingly, east Arabians were also the ones with higher similarity with Iberomaurusians, who were so far the best proxy for the basal Eurasians amongst the known ancient specimens. The basal Eurasian lineage is the signature of ancient non-Africans that diverged from the common European-East Asian pool before 50 thousand years ago, and before the later interbred with Neanderthals. Our results are strong evidence to include the exposed basin of the Arabo-Persian Gulf as possible home of basal Eurasians, to be investigated further on namely by searching ancient Arabian human specimens.
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...02.24.432678v1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    Arabian Peninsula is strategic for investigations centred on the structuring of the modern human population in the three main groups, in the awake of the out-of-Africa migration. Despite the poor climatic conditions for recovery of ancient DNA human evidence in Arabia, the availability of genomic data from neighbouring ancient specimens and of informative statistical tools allow better modelling the ancestry of these populations. We applied this approach to a dataset of 741,000 variants screened in 291 Arabians and 78 Iranians, and obtained insightful evidence. The west-east axis was a strong forcer of population structure in the Peninsula, and, more importantly, there were clear continuums throughout time linking west Arabia with Levant, and east Arabia with Iran and Caucasus. East Arabians also displayed the highest levels of the basal Eurasian lineage of all tested modern-day populations, a signal that was maintained even after correcting for possible bias due to recent sub-Saharan African input in their genomes. Not surprisingly, east Arabians were also the ones with higher similarity with Iberomaurusians, who were so far the best proxy for the basal Eurasians amongst the known ancient specimens. The basal Eurasian lineage is the signature of ancient non-Africans that diverged from the common European-East Asian pool before 50 thousand years ago, and before the later interbred with Neanderthals. Our results are strong evidence to include the exposed basin of the Arabo-Persian Gulf as possible home of basal Eurasians, to be investigated further on namely by searching ancient Arabian human specimens.
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...02.24.432678v1


    The authors conclude here that the Iberomaurusians were so far the best proxy for the basal Eurasians.
    And there are some genetic amateurs who argue for Basal Eurasians being actually "ANA", thus technically speaking an African instead a Eurasian lineage. Does it sound plausible to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    The authors conclude here that the Iberomaurusians were so far the best proxy for the basal Eurasians.
    And there are some genetic amateurs who argue for Basal Eurasians being actually "ANA", thus technically speaking an African instead a Eurasian lineage. Does it sound plausible to you?
    I am not an expert but I'll give my two cents: if the "standard model" is correct, before the crown eurasian(henceforth "CrE") there was a split between the former and BE, and before that between BE and ANA, so depending to whether BE was closer to ANA or CrE the affinities of BE for CrE or BE could be stronger or weaker, that is it is an empirical matter to see that case it is but both possible results could be supported by the stardard model; Also, Iberomaurasians were an epipaleolithic lineage, so it is isn't clear they can be taken as being 100% ANA (still a ghost pop), and the old models having it as 2/3 Natufian and 1/3 SSA hint at having strong affinities with out of africa groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leopoldo Leone View Post
    I am not an expert but I'll give my two cents: if the "standard model" is correct, before the crown eurasian(henceforth "CrE") there was a split between the former and BE, and before that between BE and ANA, so depending to whether BE was closer to ANA or CrE the affinities of BE for CrE or BE could be stronger or weaker, that is it is an empirical matter to see that case it is but both possible results could be supported by the stardard model; Also, Iberomaurasians were an epipaleolithic lineage, so it is isn't clear they can be taken as being 100% ANA (still a ghost pop), and the old models having it as 2/3 Natufian and 1/3 SSA hint at having strong affinities with out of africa groups.
    What you say seems plausible. In fact, the authors suggest that the Iberomaurasians themselves were part Basal Eurasian.

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    1 members found this post helpful.
    the one with most Basal Eurasian is Dzudzuana
    Tarofalt has 45 % ANA


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    Iberomaurusian is a good candidate because lack of neanderthal-like traits that are found in pre-glacial eurasians.

    Neanderthal optical traits (Face + hair morphology, hair + eye color, teeth) in populations/single samples:

    Chimpanzee(78%)
    All Africans (75%)
    Bantu(72%)
    Zlaty Kun (72%)
    Pygmy(71%)
    Ust Ishim (64%)
    Australian(63%)
    Jarawa(63%)
    Yamnaya(62%)
    Asian(60%)
    Arabian(59%)
    Swede(59%)
    AnatoliaHG (56%)
    Loschbour(53%)
    Villabruna(50%)
    Iberomaurusian(49%)

    There are ancient samples that are harboring African and rainbow-like Eurasian components and that are the ones from Sima de los Huesos Spain, Europe. But they are very low quality and cannot be used for trait prediction.

    Any source for fastq/bam files for Dzudzuana?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    the one with most Basal Eurasian is Dzudzuana
    Tarofalt has 45 % ANA

    I agree, I look forward to finally seeing these samples, if this paper ever gets published.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    I agree, I look forward to finally seeing these samples, if this paper ever gets published.


    This waiting for the Dzudzuana paper feels like an eternity. And it’s a bit boring right now, no new published ancient DNA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    the one with most Basal Eurasian is Dzudzuana
    Tarofalt has 45 % ANA

    So if Dzudzuana man is living 45% Basal Eurasian; and living in Georgia 🇬🇪, how much Basal Eurasian do you suppose the Caucasus Hunter Gatherer culture ended up with?
    Or was there a population vacuum and CHG dominated the Caucasus?
    The prehistory of the Middle-east has so many surprises. :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight View Post
    So if Dzudzuana man is living 45% Basal Eurasian; and living in Georgia 🇬🇪, how much Basal Eurasian do you suppose the Caucasus Hunter Gatherer culture ended up with?
    Or was there a population vacuum and CHG dominated the Caucasus?
    The prehistory of the Middle-east has so many surprises. :)
    Not just the middle east, David Reich and David Anthony think CHG also went to the steppe. Not the other way around.

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    It is indeed irritating that it has taken so long. Almost four years now!


    Ever since COVID-19, there has been a noticeable dearth of new papers coming out. This hobby has certainly been uneventful lately.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jovialis View Post
    It is indeed irritating that it has taken so long. Almost four years now!


    Ever since COVID-19, there has been a noticeable dearth of new papers coming out. This hobby has certainly been uneventful lately.
    They should at least release the samples, while the paper continues to be peer-reviewed. It is not unheard of papers releasing the samples before the papers come out.

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    Hmm, it's a bit confusing to be honest, depending on what context they mean.

    On Dzudzuana pre-print Basal Eurasian is rather closer to Crown Eurasian which a common parent component split from ANA.

    I visualize Basal Eurasians to look rather smaller in stature and more petite, a precursor to Proto-Mediterranean race. While ANA was the opposite, Taforalt/Iberomarusian/Kiffian and Paleolithic Egyptian skeletons are extremely robust and tall. Average Taforalt male height 15k years ago was 178cm with some of them reaching 2m height.

    This dude is in Egyptian museum, he is a Paleolithic Egyptian, i suppose his Y-DNA was either E-M35 or downstream E-M78 and he was atleast 70% ANA.



    Compare them with Iberomaurusians/Taforalt cranium.





    Natufian crania full with Basal Eurasian looks different, more refined, petite.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Hmm, it's a bit confusing to be honest, depending on what context they mean.

    On Dzudzuana pre-print Basal Eurasian is rather closer to Crown Eurasian which a common parent component split from ANA.

    I visualize Basal Eurasians to look rather smaller in stature and more petite, a precursor to Proto-Mediterranean race. While ANA was the opposite, Taforalt/Iberomarusian/Kiffian and Paleolithic Egyptian skeletons are extremely robust and tall. Average Taforalt male height 15k years ago was 178cm with some of them reaching 2m height.

    This dude is in Egyptian museum, he is a Paleolithic Egyptian, i suppose his Y-DNA was either E-M35 or downstream E-M78 and he was atleast 70% ANA.

    Natufian crania full with Basal Eurasian looks different, more refined, petite.
    Gravettians - haplo I were 1m80 or taller.
    I guess haplo J should have been more or less the same before admixture with Basal Eurasian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicicleur 2 View Post
    Gravettians - haplo I were 1m80 or taller.
    I guess haplo J should have been more or less the same before admixture with Basal Eurasian.
    I am talking about averaged, and averaged Iberomaurusians were taller than averaged Gravettians.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    I am talking about averaged, and averaged Iberomaurusians were taller than averaged Gravettians.

    I recall reading that the Gravettians were on average around 184 cm tall, and even the females were on average over 170 cm in height. That being said, the Iberomaurasians were also on the taller side with some reaching 2 meters as you said which is impressive.The thing is, that the Natufians who are believed to have significant ANA-like admixture, and the Egyptians were rather moderately short people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by real expert View Post
    I recall reading that the Gravettians were on average around 184 cm tall, and even the females were on average over 170 cm in height. That being said, the Iberomaurasians were also on the taller side with some reaching 2 meters as you said which is impressive.The thing is, that the Natufians who are believed to have significant ANA-like admixture, and the Egyptians were rather moderately short people.
    Yes, that looks to be true, Gravettians look to have been quite tall which is interesting, in comparison with Iberomaurusuians they were more slender, so it seems they were a very tall and slender type. As for Natufians, they had approximately ~25% ANA and Old Kingdom Egyptians would probably have less of it i guess, ~10% probably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Hmm, it's a bit confusing to be honest, depending on what context they mean.

    On Dzudzuana pre-print Basal Eurasian is rather closer to Crown Eurasian which a common parent component split from ANA.

    I visualize Basal Eurasians to look rather smaller in stature and more petite, a precursor to Proto-Mediterranean race. While ANA was the opposite, Taforalt/Iberomarusian/Kiffian and Paleolithic Egyptian skeletons are extremely robust and tall. Average Taforalt male height 15k years ago was 178cm with some of them reaching 2m height.

    This dude is in Egyptian museum, he is a Paleolithic Egyptian, i suppose his Y-DNA was either E-M35 or downstream E-M78 and he was atleast 70% ANA.



    Compare them with Iberomaurusians/Taforalt cranium.





    Natufian crania full with Basal Eurasian looks different, more refined, petite.

    For features, genetics kept apart, the "Egyptian" HG evocates a "super"-'Combe-Capelle' type, very close.
    The 'taforalt' one seems closer to the classical 'cro-magnon'.
    The 'natufian' seems a reduction of a version of 'croma', maybe a form we found later in neolithic Egyptians and in composition among Long-Barrows people. All that if I can rely on the labellings of these three pictues. Interesting ATW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    For features, genetics kept apart, the "Egyptian" HG evocates a "super"-'Combe-Capelle' type, very close.
    The 'taforalt' one seems closer to the classical 'cro-magnon'.
    The 'natufian' seems a reduction of a version of 'croma', maybe a form we found later in neolithic Egyptians and in composition among Long-Barrows people. All that if I can rely on the labellings of these three pictues. Interesting ATW.
    It must be due to convergent evolution, North Africa of Paleolithic/Mesolithic climate was like South Europe of today. Add also the more Eurasian autosomal DNA they acquired through female line ( U6a, though this is enigmatic to me).

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    Finally, something interesting!

    https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...f-West-Eurasia

    This new paper basically confirms what the Lazaridis 2018 pre-print says about Dzudzuana.

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    I might say - "what else". It can be only around Sinai, between Nile Valley and Levante, or deeper into Arabia, especially the Arabo-Persian Gulf region. And I guess that haplogroup E too will be found there, but with an early (pre-E1b1b) and later (post-E1b1b) back migration to Africa. The first bringing ANA, the latter Iberomaursians/Basal Eurasian.

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    In my literature I have found a large variety of height for different Palaeolithic individuals depending on the site of excavation.

    The robustness of the skeleton is not always the same as muscle mass or effectiveness of muscles.
    For example Neanderthals are always thought to be robust, but their genetics show a different picture, they don't have the SNPs for strongman, but sprinters.
    In contrast neolithic LBK or FCB/TRB individuals display often a muscular and oxygen effective type of muscles in their SNPs but they where often described petite by literature based on their skeletons.
    A Yamnaya individual in contrast showed more of the sprinter SNPs, not strongman.

    We should also think about that there are more genetic factors then known SNPs for athletic performance.
    Another explanation for robust skeletons without genetic evidence could be other childhood behaviours, dietary factors, intensive exercise/working.

    I have analysed the samples of Iberomaurusians for phenotypic SNPs and the following can be said about them:

    -A round face, not so much distance between nose and mouth
    -Small forehead
    -African/European Eyelids, not Asian
    -More likely a hook nose, slim, not broad
    -Small mouth, bigger underlip
    -Probably hazel eyes
    -Dark brown skin
    -Probably dark curly or wavy hair (only one SNP I am using for prediction of this trait is present in the samples)

    Not enough SNPs for predicting athletic performance completely. But it is probably more sprinter or middle type.

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    WHat are based the SNP's for sprinters or strongmen on? I doubt our knowledge is so advanced. Even if science is going on and surely filling the holes progressively. Maybe I 'm not informed enough? And runners can be classed in "sprinters" and "marathonians" too.
    That said, I agree for distinction between skeletons and muscles, even if some correspondances can exist. And genetics is not only at play here, as you say, but way of life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOESAN View Post
    WHat are based the SNP's for sprinters or strongmen on? I doubt our knowledge is so advanced. Even if science is going on and surely filling the holes progressively. Maybe I 'm not informed enough? And runners can be classed in "sprinters" and "marathonians" too.
    That said, I agree for distinction between skeletons and muscles, even if some correspondances can exist. And genetics is not only at play here, as you say, but way of life.
    https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/act...cle-type-gene/

    I think the Actn3 gene is one that has been identified with Speed/Fast twitch muscles (2 copies), some speed and strength and some endurance (1 copy of each), maybe or perhaps best combination if you played sports? or non Speed (i.e. no fast twitch muscles), 2 copies of the Non Fast Switch alleles which is purely endurance related.

    That is my reading of this article and interpretation, not sure mine is accurate but there is some research in this gene that identifies this Actn3 gene impacting Speed on the one hand and endurance on the other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    https://www.geneticlifehacks.com/act...cle-type-gene/

    I think the Actn3 gene is one that has been identified with Speed/Fast twitch muscles (2 copies), some speed and strength and some endurance (1 copy of each), maybe or perhaps best combination if you played sports? or non Speed (i.e. no fast twitch muscles), 2 copies of the Non Fast Switch alleles which is purely endurance related.

    That is my reading of this article and interpretation, not sure I mine is accurate but there is some research in this gene that identifies a gene for Speed on the one hand and endurance on the other.
    Thanks for info.

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