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Thread: The genetic origin of Daunians

  1. #501
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    ^^ The discussion about Dienekes was over you are a little bit late to the party.

  2. #502
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    I think Dienekes was a great blogger with excellent knowledge on history, archaeology, genetics. He might be Lazaridis, who knows, i have no clue.

    But, that he was biased toward Albanians he was. You can get the vibe when he was writing about Albanians. Like for E-V13, when he was saying that all E-V13 in Albanians is due to Late Middle Age boom of specific sub-clade. Well, he was saying a true + lie mix. That specific sub-clade which he was refusing to specify was Berisha-Sopi sub-clade, and it's true it had a boom after XII century but it doesn't even remotely contain the vast majority of Albanian E-V13.

    This of course doesn't change the fact that the guy was a pleasure to read on various topics. Beside that, maybe his antagonism toward Albanians made him believe so, it was more than 10 years what he stated, and we all do a lot of errors/assumptions. What's more important is to acknowledge the mistakes.

  3. #503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnimirie View Post
    Thanks for the info Pax. Surprised Calabria is overlooked, I feel the Oenotrians and/or the populous Greek colonies would solve the puzzle
    The Iron Age Campanian study has over 100 Ancient Samples. If there is a male bias in those samples we will see a massive amount of Y-Dna from Native Southern Italians.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pax Augusta View Post
    At least 3-4 studies on ancient samples from Italy are about to be published. At least two include ancient samples from southern Italy, and one definitely includes samples from Sicily. Instead, unfortunately, to my knowledge there are no rumors yet about studies with ancient samples from Calabria.


    Unraveling the genetic history of Italians: a genome-wide study of Iron Age Italic populations

    Zaro Valentina (1), Vergata Chiara (1), Cannariato Costanza (1), Modi Alessandra (1), Vai Stefania (1), Pilli Elena (1), Diroma Maria Angela (1), Caramelli David (1), Lari Martina (1)
    1 - Department of Biology, University of Florence, Florence, Italy (Italy)

    The high genetic variability of present-day Italians reflects a complex scenario of past population dynamics dating back not only to Late Paleolithic and Neolithic but also Metal Ages. Although many archaeogenetic studies have been recently carried out to investigate the peopling of Europe, only few genomic data have been reported from Italic populations so far, especially the ones belonging to the last phase of Metal Ages: the Iron Age. To outline a picture of Iron Age genetic variability within the Italian context and infer potential gene flow patterns, we collected 78 human remains from 8 Iron Age necropolises covering 5 different regions of Italy (Emilia-Romagna, Umbria, Marche, Latium and Sicily). Double stranded half-UDG libraries were produced and then shotgun sequenced on an Illumina NovaSeq6000 platform to allow for an initial screening of the samples. Raw reads were processed using the EAGER pipeline and then assessment of DNA authenticity and sex determination were performed. Preliminary population genetics tests were run on genotyped data by building a west Eurasian PCA including all the samples with at least 10.000 SNPs covered on the Affymetrix Human Origins panel. The first results highlight an affinity of the majority of the samples with previously reported Iron Age individuals from Italy, while all samples from Sicily overlap with the genetic variability observed in this area during the Bronze Age. Our aim is to deeper investigate these samples which can significantly contribute to better understand past peopling dynamics of the Italian peninsula and reconstruct modern Italians' genetic history.










    thanks
    that should be interesting
    ancestery :
    mostly western jewish here is the overlapp with south europe[U]

    "Know where you came from and where you are going."

    Direct paternal line : mizrahi from damascus

  5. #505
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    At least in terms of Italy and the Balkans, Cavalli-Sforza appears to have been right, that by the Middle Ages, indigenous populations were too large to be completely replaced by “barbarian” invasions like Slavs and Germanics. The Roman Balkans study gives evidence of this. Pretty much every academic study shows the south Balkans to be the least “Slavic-like,” based on our current knowledge.

    Whether Dienekes (Pontian) is Lazaridis (Pontian) doesn’t matter that much to me, so long as there’s not a big ethical breach or misrepresentation. It seems that Dienekes stopped posting more or less around the time Lazaridis became big in population genetics. Lazaridis does great work and is a pioneer in ancient Greek genetics. Look forward to his next papers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    The Iron Age Campanian study has over 100 Ancient Samples. If there is a male bias in those samples we will see a massive amount of Y-Dna from Native Southern Italians.
    Unless there's samples from the Cilento area from south Campania I feel they are just going to turn out the usual Latin-like and not what might be a Native Southern Italian, Bay of Naples is a few steps away from Rome after all. Hence why I don't understand this tiptoeing in the immediate areas around Latinum instead of going for Salento/Calabria/Sicily if a paper on South Italian genetics is to be made.

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    scholars should see if any link the

    https://www.earth-prints.org/bitstre...0al%202021.pdf

    with the Croatia paper

    and the Daunian paper
    Fathers mtdna ...... T2b17
    Grandfather paternal mtdna ... T1a1e
    Sons mtdna ...... K1a4p
    Mothers line ..... R1b-S8172
    Grandmother paternal side ... I1-CTS6397
    Wife paternal line ..... R1a-PF6155

    "Fear profits man, nothing"

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carnimirie View Post
    Unless there's samples from the Cilento area from south Campania I feel they are just going to turn out the usual Latin-like and not what might be a Native Southern Italian, Bay of Naples is a few steps away from Rome after all. Hence why I don't understand this tiptoeing in the immediate areas around Latinum instead of going for Salento/Calabria/Sicily if a paper on South Italian genetics is to be made.



    In the Daunian PCA it seems that ORD009 falls in into the Campanian cluster. But that PCA seem to be questionable.
    Overall they seem like similar to Latins and Etruscans but they are pulled towards Central Italians, so not exactly the same.

  9. #509
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    S vs SGRs … San Giovanni Rotondo … + Padre Pio

    SGR001


    SGR002


    SGR003

  10. #510
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    SAL vs SALs …

    SAL001


    SAL003


    SAL007


    SAL010


    SAL011

  11. #511
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    S vs ORDs

    ORD001


    ORD004


    ORD006


    ORD009


    ORD010


    ORD011


    ORD014


    ORD019

  12. #512
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Salento: San Giovanni Rotondo and Padre Pio, you are I assume referring to the famous Capuchin Franciscan correct? So those samples are from his home town or he actually is from the same town as those ancient samples. Very interesting.

    How are things going?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palermo Trapani View Post
    Salento: San Giovanni Rotondo and Padre Pio, you are I assume referring to the famous Capuchin Franciscan correct? So those samples are from his home town or he actually is from the same town as those ancient samples. Very interesting.

    How are things going?
    He’s from Pietralcina (Campania - Benevento), His convent is in San Giovanni Rotondo and he also founded a hospital there, … I’ve been there in the past on more than one occasion to visit sick relatives, … it’s one of the best hospitals around.

    … I’m doing fine, Thanks, … hope you’re OK too :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    He must've tried several methods and picked which ever he liked best.
    Sour grapes, friend. Why would an Albanian poster be so sour about Pontic Greeks being related to ancient Greeks, what would be the repercussion for the West Balkans, anyways, Pontics are Ionics + Colchians by historical sources and they speak Ionic Greek, they have nothing to do with Albanians or the Balkans, they never mixed with them or fought against them or whatever, no one cares about Albania or Albanians in Pontic circles.

    And here are some other pass runs, with Caucasus references, for you since you think I cherry pick, if you have any ideas you want to test further, I can try and accommodate you, write it here or send a PM. I apologize in advance, mods, for taking space in this thread.

    qpAdm: parameter file: parqpadm.txt
    ### THE INPUT PARAMETERS
    ##PARAMETER NAME: VALUE
    fstatsname: fstatsa.txt
    popleft: left.txt
    popright: right.txt
    details: YES
    ## qpAdm version: 1520
    seed: 1852179557
    *** recommended that inbreed be explicitly set ***
    inbreed set NO

    left pops:
    ponticgreek
    Greece_BA_Mycenaean
    Armenian.DG

    right pops:
    Mbuti.DG
    Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG
    China_Tianyuan
    Goyet_Neanderthal.SG
    Iran_GanjDareh_N
    Georgia_Kotias.SG
    Turkey_N_published
    Russia_MA1_HG.SG
    Georgia_Satsurblia.SG
    Papuan.DG
    Israel_Natufian_published
    Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG
    ONG.SG
    Greece_Minoan_Lassithi
    Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published

    codimension 1
    f4info:
    f4rank: 1 dof: 13 chisq: 19.351 tail: 0.112628612 dofdiff: 15 chisqdiff: -19.351 taildiff: 1
    B:
    scale 1.000
    Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.152
    China_Tianyuan 0.405
    Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.198
    Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.373
    Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.697
    Turkey_N_published 1.932
    Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.301
    Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -0.465
    Papuan.DG 0.118
    Israel_Natufian_published 2.314
    Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.363
    ONG.SG -0.035
    Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.677
    Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.893
    A:
    scale 1034.583
    Greece_BA_Mycenaean 1.267
    Armenian.DG -0.628


    full rank
    f4info:
    f4rank: 2 dof: 0 chisq: 0.000 tail: 1 dofdiff: 13 chisqdiff: 19.351 taildiff: 0.112628612
    B:
    scale 659.683 1298.492
    Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.583 0.861
    China_Tianyuan 0.613 0.272
    Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.347 0.188
    Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.639 -0.591
    Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.918 -0.153
    Turkey_N_published 1.297 -2.027
    Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.663 0.525
    Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -1.530 -1.892
    Papuan.DG 0.440 0.708
    Israel_Natufian_published 2.006 -1.287
    Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.361 -0.163
    ONG.SG 0.212 0.592
    Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.232 -1.509
    Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.240 -0.001
    A:
    scale 1.414 1.414
    Greece_BA_Mycenaean 1.414 0.000
    Armenian.DG 0.000 1.414


    best coefficients: 0.332 0.668
    totmean: 0.332 0.668
    boot mean: 0.330 0.670
    std. errors: 0.099 0.099

    error covariance (* 1,000,000)
    9781 -9781
    -9781 9781


    summ: ponticgreek 2 0.112629 0.330 0.670 9781 -9781 9781

    fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
    00 0 13 19.351 0.112629 0.332 0.668
    01 1 14 68.855 3.10871e-09 1.000 0.000
    10 1 14 32.298 0.00363269 0.000 1.000
    best pat: 00 0.112629 - -
    best pat: 10 0.00363269 chi(nested): 12.948 p-value for nested model: 0.000320318

    coeffs: 0.332 0.668

    ## dscore:: f_4(Base, Fit, Rbase, right2)
    ## genstat:: f_4(Base, Fit, right1, right2)

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.000884 1.384109
    details: Armenian.DG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.000663 1.092505
    dscore: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG f4: 0.000736 Z: 1.262826

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean China_Tianyuan 0.000929 1.263714
    details: Armenian.DG China_Tianyuan 0.000209 0.304151
    dscore: China_Tianyuan f4: 0.000448 Z: 0.670400

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.000525 0.980666
    details: Armenian.DG Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.000145 0.288225
    dscore: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG f4: 0.000271 Z: 0.554900

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.000969 -1.836263
    details: Armenian.DG Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.000455 -0.890073
    dscore: Iran_GanjDareh_N f4: -0.000625 Z: -1.275780

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.001392 -2.032289
    details: Armenian.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.000118 -0.182006
    dscore: Georgia_Kotias.SG f4: -0.000540 Z: -0.867427

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Turkey_N_published 0.001966 3.845090
    details: Armenian.DG Turkey_N_published -0.001561 -3.175836
    dscore: Turkey_N_published f4: -0.000391 Z: -0.832079

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.001005 1.308561
    details: Armenian.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.000404 0.558771
    dscore: Russia_MA1_HG.SG f4: 0.000603 Z: 0.862824

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -0.002319 -2.996201
    details: Armenian.DG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -0.001457 -1.981802
    dscore: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG f4: -0.001743 Z: -2.452335

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Papuan.DG 0.000667 1.243099
    details: Armenian.DG Papuan.DG 0.000545 1.050728
    dscore: Papuan.DG f4: 0.000585 Z: 1.185686

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Israel_Natufian_published 0.003042 2.661123
    details: Armenian.DG Israel_Natufian_published -0.000991 -0.964655
    dscore: Israel_Natufian_published f4: 0.000346 Z: 0.338247

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.000548 0.882014
    details: Armenian.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.000126 -0.222668
    dscore: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG f4: 0.000098 Z: 0.176826

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean ONG.SG 0.000321 0.591893
    details: Armenian.DG ONG.SG 0.000456 0.883819
    dscore: ONG.SG f4: 0.000411 Z: 0.827085

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.001868 3.293926
    details: Armenian.DG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.001162 -2.155761
    dscore: Greece_Minoan_Lassithi f4: -0.000158 Z: -0.302528

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.001879 1.831375
    details: Armenian.DG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.000001 -0.000896
    dscore: Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published f4: 0.000622 Z: 0.649883

    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 1.263
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG China_Tianyuan 0.670
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.555
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Iran_GanjDareh_N -1.276
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.867
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Turkey_N_published -0.832
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.863
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.452
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Papuan.DG 1.186
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Israel_Natufian_published 0.338
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.177
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG ONG.SG 0.827
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.303
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.650
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG China_Tianyuan -0.412
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Goyet_Neanderthal.SG -0.636
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Iran_GanjDareh_N -2.302
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.767
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Turkey_N_published -1.943
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG -0.174
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -3.183
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Papuan.DG -0.240
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Israel_Natufian_published -0.369
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.983
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG ONG.SG -0.560
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -1.417
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.112
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Goyet_Neanderthal.SG -0.230
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Iran_GanjDareh_N -1.624
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.254
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Turkey_N_published -1.342
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.193
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.608
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Papuan.DG 0.217
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Israel_Natufian_published -0.095
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.531
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan ONG.SG -0.059
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.895
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.169
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Iran_GanjDareh_N -1.400
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.118
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Turkey_N_published -1.086
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.426
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.438
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Papuan.DG 0.480
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Israel_Natufian_published 0.068
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.256
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG ONG.SG 0.219
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.638
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.346
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Georgia_Kotias.SG 0.146
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Turkey_N_published 0.491
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.791
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -1.651
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Papuan.DG 2.297
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Israel_Natufian_published 0.966
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 1.281
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N ONG.SG 1.958
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.907
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.300
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Turkey_N_published 0.243
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.386
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -1.594
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Papuan.DG 1.642
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Israel_Natufian_published 0.798
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.920
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG ONG.SG 1.418
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.602
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.184
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.454
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -1.947
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Papuan.DG 1.912
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Israel_Natufian_published 0.740
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.873
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published ONG.SG 1.590
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.549
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.133
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.689
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Papuan.DG -0.026
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Israel_Natufian_published -0.227
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.706
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG ONG.SG -0.279
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -1.069
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.018
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Papuan.DG 3.170
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Israel_Natufian_published 1.820
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 2.418
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG ONG.SG 3.063
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 2.182
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 2.210
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Israel_Natufian_published -0.230
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.965
    gendstat: Papuan.DG ONG.SG -0.369
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -1.348
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.037
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.241
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published ONG.SG 0.065
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.488
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.209
    gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG ONG.SG 0.641
    gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.446
    gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.518
    gendstat: ONG.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -1.037
    gendstat: ONG.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.212
    gendstat: Greece_Minoan_Lassithi Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.852

    ##end of qpAdm: 2.287 seconds cpu 0.827 Mbytes in use



    qpAdm: parameter file: parqpadm.txt
    ### THE INPUT PARAMETERS
    ##PARAMETER NAME: VALUE
    fstatsname: fstatsa.txt
    popleft: left.txt
    popright: right.txt
    details: YES
    ## qpAdm version: 1520
    seed: 1851216433
    *** recommended that inbreed be explicitly set ***
    inbreed set NO

    left pops:
    ponticgreek
    Greece_BA_Mycenaean
    Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG

    right pops:
    Mbuti.DG
    Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG
    China_Tianyuan
    Goyet_Neanderthal.SG
    Iran_GanjDareh_N
    Georgia_Kotias.SG
    Turkey_N_published
    Russia_MA1_HG.SG
    Georgia_Satsurblia.SG
    Papuan.DG
    Israel_Natufian_published
    Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG
    ONG.SG
    Greece_Minoan_Lassithi
    Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published

    codimension 1
    f4info:
    f4rank: 1 dof: 13 chisq: 14.653 tail: 0.329489418 dofdiff: 15 chisqdiff: -14.653 taildiff: 1
    B:
    scale 1.000
    Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.661
    China_Tianyuan 0.856
    Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.372
    Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.318
    Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.755
    Turkey_N_published 1.369
    Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.697
    Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -0.889
    Papuan.DG 0.619
    Israel_Natufian_published 2.234
    Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.540
    ONG.SG 0.441
    Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.132
    Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.315
    A:
    scale 756.248
    Greece_BA_Mycenaean 1.293
    Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG 0.572


    full rank
    f4info:
    f4rank: 2 dof: 0 chisq: 0.000 tail: 1 dofdiff: 13 chisqdiff: 14.653 taildiff: 0.329489418
    B:
    scale 659.683 1168.153
    Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.583 -0.187
    China_Tianyuan 0.613 -0.533
    Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.347 0.139
    Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.639 -1.440
    Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.918 -1.027
    Turkey_N_published 1.297 0.211
    Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.663 0.124
    Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -1.530 -2.901
    Papuan.DG 0.440 -0.636
    Israel_Natufian_published 2.006 0.469
    Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.361 -0.596
    ONG.SG 0.212 -0.711
    Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.232 0.755
    Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.240 -0.033
    A:
    scale 1.414 1.414
    Greece_BA_Mycenaean 1.414 0.000
    Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG 0.000 1.414


    best coefficients: -0.793 1.793
    totmean: -0.793 1.793
    boot mean: -0.889 1.889
    std. errors: 1.312 1.312

    error covariance (* 1,000,000)
    1721564 -1721564
    -1721564 1721564


    summ: ponticgreek 2 0.329489 -0.889 1.889 1721564 -1721564 1721564

    fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
    00 0 13 14.653 0.329489 -0.793 1.793 infeasible
    01 1 14 68.835 3.13516e-09 1.000 0.000
    10 1 14 26.204 0.0243804 0.000 1.000
    best pat: 00 0.329489 - -
    best pat: 10 0.0243804 chi(nested): 11.551 p-value for nested model: 0.000677124

    coeffs: -0.793 1.793

    ## dscore:: f_4(Base, Fit, Rbase, right2)
    ## genstat:: f_4(Base, Fit, right1, right2)

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.000884 1.384109
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG -0.000160 -0.258653
    dscore: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG f4: -0.000987 Z: -1.238219

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean China_Tianyuan 0.000929 1.263714
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG China_Tianyuan -0.000456 -0.632830
    dscore: China_Tianyuan f4: -0.001554 Z: -1.686155

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.000525 0.980666
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.000119 0.226660
    dscore: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG f4: -0.000203 Z: -0.300067

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.000969 -1.836263
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.001233 -2.323321
    dscore: Iran_GanjDareh_N f4: -0.001442 Z: -2.090971

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.001392 -2.032289
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.000880 -1.279017
    dscore: Georgia_Kotias.SG f4: -0.000473 Z: -0.519852

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Turkey_N_published 0.001966 3.845090
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Turkey_N_published 0.000181 0.344879
    dscore: Turkey_N_published f4: -0.001234 Z: -1.775053

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.001005 1.308561
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.000106 0.137055
    dscore: Russia_MA1_HG.SG f4: -0.000606 Z: -0.591766

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -0.002319 -2.996201
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -0.002483 -3.212607
    dscore: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG f4: -0.002614 Z: -2.619484

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Papuan.DG 0.000667 1.243099
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Papuan.DG -0.000544 -1.003899
    dscore: Papuan.DG f4: -0.001504 Z: -2.079850

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Israel_Natufian_published 0.003042 2.661123
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Israel_Natufian_published 0.000401 0.360063
    dscore: Israel_Natufian_published f4: -0.001691 Z: -1.208834

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.000548 0.882014
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.000511 -0.881531
    dscore: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG f4: -0.001349 Z: -1.842351

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean ONG.SG 0.000321 0.591893
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG ONG.SG -0.000609 -1.089144
    dscore: ONG.SG f4: -0.001346 Z: -1.866281

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.001868 3.293926
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.000647 1.145080
    dscore: Greece_Minoan_Lassithi f4: -0.000322 Z: -0.442918

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.001879 1.831375
    details: Turkey_OldHittitePeriod.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.000028 -0.027526
    dscore: Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published f4: -0.001540 Z: -1.182773

    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG -1.238
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG China_Tianyuan -1.686
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Goyet_Neanderthal.SG -0.300
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Iran_GanjDareh_N -2.091
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.520
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Turkey_N_published -1.775
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG -0.592
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.619
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Papuan.DG -2.080
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Israel_Natufian_published -1.209
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -1.842
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG ONG.SG -1.866
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.443
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -1.183
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG China_Tianyuan -0.559
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.806
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.536
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG 0.493
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Turkey_N_published -0.289
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.348
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -1.481
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Papuan.DG -0.602
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Israel_Natufian_published -0.465
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.415
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG ONG.SG -0.428
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.749
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.411
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 1.306
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Iran_GanjDareh_N 0.119
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Georgia_Kotias.SG 0.950
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Turkey_N_published 0.354
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.855
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -0.916
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Papuan.DG 0.057
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Israel_Natufian_published -0.086
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.236
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan ONG.SG 0.236
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.279
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.010
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Iran_GanjDareh_N -1.413
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.257
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Turkey_N_published -1.187
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG -0.352
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.077
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Papuan.DG -1.441
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Israel_Natufian_published -0.974
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -1.235
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG ONG.SG -1.274
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.132
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.961
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Georgia_Kotias.SG 1.158
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Turkey_N_published 0.313
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.835
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -1.225
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Papuan.DG -0.086
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Israel_Natufian_published -0.178
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.122
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N ONG.SG 0.132
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.617
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.076
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Turkey_N_published -0.866
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG -0.112
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.000
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Papuan.DG -1.065
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Israel_Natufian_published -0.800
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.917
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG ONG.SG -0.939
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.168
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.800
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.626
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -1.460
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Papuan.DG -0.374
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Israel_Natufian_published -0.330
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.153
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published ONG.SG -0.158
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.602
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.255
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -1.619
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Papuan.DG -0.894
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Israel_Natufian_published -0.653
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.720
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG ONG.SG -0.737
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.272
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.631
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Papuan.DG 1.091
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Israel_Natufian_published 0.567
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 1.228
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG ONG.SG 1.286
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 2.320
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.763
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Israel_Natufian_published -0.129
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.217
    gendstat: Papuan.DG ONG.SG 0.238
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.562
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.027
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.233
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published ONG.SG 0.244
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.979
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.082
    gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG ONG.SG 0.005
    gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.337
    gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.143
    gendstat: ONG.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.338
    gendstat: ONG.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -0.148
    gendstat: Greece_Minoan_Lassithi Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published -1.001

    ##end of qpAdm: 2.291 seconds cpu 0.827 Mbytes in use

    qpAdm: parameter file: parqpadm.txt
    ### THE INPUT PARAMETERS
    ##PARAMETER NAME: VALUE
    fstatsname: fstatsa.txt
    popleft: left.txt
    popright: right.txt
    details: YES
    ## qpAdm version: 1520
    seed: 1861002436
    *** recommended that inbreed be explicitly set ***
    inbreed set NO

    left pops:
    ponticgreek
    Greece_BA_Mycenaean
    Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz

    right pops:
    Mbuti.DG
    Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG
    China_Tianyuan
    Goyet_Neanderthal.SG
    Iran_GanjDareh_N
    Georgia_Kotias.SG
    Turkey_N_published
    Russia_MA1_HG.SG
    Georgia_Satsurblia.SG
    Papuan.DG
    Israel_Natufian_published
    Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG
    ONG.SG
    Greece_Minoan_Lassithi
    Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published

    codimension 1
    f4info:
    f4rank: 1 dof: 13 chisq: 16.411 tail: 0.227652452 dofdiff: 15 chisqdiff: -16.411 taildiff: 1
    B:
    scale 1.000
    Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.455
    China_Tianyuan 0.228
    Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.311
    Iran_GanjDareh_N -1.369
    Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.667
    Turkey_N_published 1.995
    Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.050
    Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -0.872
    Papuan.DG 0.038
    Israel_Natufian_published 1.852
    Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.089
    ONG.SG -0.033
    Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.700
    Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.503
    A:
    scale 985.794
    Greece_BA_Mycenaean 1.001
    Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz -0.999


    full rank
    f4info:
    f4rank: 2 dof: 0 chisq: 0.000 tail: 1 dofdiff: 13 chisqdiff: 16.411 taildiff: 0.227652452
    B:
    scale 659.683 962.837
    Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.583 0.030
    China_Tianyuan 0.613 0.676
    Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.347 -0.127
    Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.639 1.759
    Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.918 -0.192
    Turkey_N_published 1.297 -1.929
    Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.663 1.015
    Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -1.530 -0.771
    Papuan.DG 0.440 0.626
    Israel_Natufian_published 2.006 -0.783
    Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.361 0.754
    ONG.SG 0.212 0.477
    Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.232 -1.516
    Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.240 0.975
    A:
    scale 1.414 1.414
    Greece_BA_Mycenaean 1.414 0.000
    Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz 0.000 1.414


    best coefficients: 0.500 0.500
    totmean: 0.500 0.500
    boot mean: 0.499 0.501
    std. errors: 0.073 0.073

    error covariance (* 1,000,000)
    5346 -5346
    -5346 5346


    summ: ponticgreek 2 0.227652 0.499 0.501 5346 -5346 5346

    fixed pat wt dof chisq tail prob
    00 0 13 16.411 0.227652 0.500 0.500
    01 1 14 68.785 3.20081e-09 1.000 0.000
    10 1 14 57.685 2.97542e-07 0.000 1.000
    best pat: 00 0.227652 - -
    best pat: 10 2.97542e-07 chi(nested): 41.274 p-value for nested model: 1.32322e-10

    coeffs: 0.500 0.500

    ## dscore:: f_4(Base, Fit, Rbase, right2)
    ## genstat:: f_4(Base, Fit, right1, right2)

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.000884 1.384109
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.000032 0.044292
    dscore: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG f4: 0.000458 Z: 0.736911

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean China_Tianyuan 0.000929 1.263714
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz China_Tianyuan 0.000702 0.845049
    dscore: China_Tianyuan f4: 0.000816 Z: 1.137829

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.000525 0.980666
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Goyet_Neanderthal.SG -0.000132 -0.212188
    dscore: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG f4: 0.000197 Z: 0.373474

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.000969 -1.836263
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Iran_GanjDareh_N 0.001826 3.021005
    dscore: Iran_GanjDareh_N f4: 0.000430 Z: 0.828197

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.001392 -2.032289
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Georgia_Kotias.SG -0.000199 -0.247325
    dscore: Georgia_Kotias.SG f4: -0.000796 Z: -1.174027

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Turkey_N_published 0.001966 3.845090
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Turkey_N_published -0.002004 -3.297215
    dscore: Turkey_N_published f4: -0.000020 Z: -0.039211

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.001005 1.308561
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.001054 1.172802
    dscore: Russia_MA1_HG.SG f4: 0.001029 Z: 1.348710

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -0.002319 -2.996201
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -0.000801 -0.944422
    dscore: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG f4: -0.001559 Z: -2.097145

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Papuan.DG 0.000667 1.243099
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Papuan.DG 0.000651 1.056604
    dscore: Papuan.DG f4: 0.000659 Z: 1.261514

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Israel_Natufian_published 0.003042 2.661123
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Israel_Natufian_published -0.000813 -0.685253
    dscore: Israel_Natufian_published f4: 0.001113 Z: 1.035388

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.000548 0.882014
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.000783 1.178402
    dscore: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG f4: 0.000665 Z: 1.138853

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean ONG.SG 0.000321 0.591893
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz ONG.SG 0.000496 0.822909
    dscore: ONG.SG f4: 0.000408 Z: 0.783034

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.001868 3.293926
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.001575 -2.412478
    dscore: Greece_Minoan_Lassithi f4: 0.000146 Z: 0.259611

    details: Greece_BA_Mycenaean Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.001879 1.831375
    details: Iran_IA_HajjiFiruz Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.001013 0.889496
    dscore: Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published f4: 0.001446 Z: 1.433914

    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG 0.737
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG China_Tianyuan 1.138
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Goyet_Neanderthal.SG 0.373
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Iran_GanjDareh_N 0.828
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.174
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Turkey_N_published -0.039
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.349
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.097
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Papuan.DG 1.262
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Israel_Natufian_published 1.035
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 1.139
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG ONG.SG 0.783
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.260
    gendstat: Mbuti.DG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.434
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG China_Tianyuan 0.476
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Goyet_Neanderthal.SG -0.334
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.045
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.623
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Turkey_N_published -0.754
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.688
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.476
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Papuan.DG 0.307
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Israel_Natufian_published 0.587
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.307
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG ONG.SG -0.082
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.465
    gendstat: Russia_Ust_Ishim.DG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.944
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Goyet_Neanderthal.SG -0.744
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Iran_GanjDareh_N -0.540
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.930
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Turkey_N_published -1.203
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.243
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.629
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Papuan.DG -0.229
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Israel_Natufian_published 0.257
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.210
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan ONG.SG -0.598
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.907
    gendstat: China_Tianyuan Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.599
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Iran_GanjDareh_N 0.337
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.272
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Turkey_N_published -0.324
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.972
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -1.987
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Papuan.DG 0.672
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Israel_Natufian_published 0.785
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.644
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG ONG.SG 0.314
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.071
    gendstat: Goyet_Neanderthal.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.159
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Georgia_Kotias.SG -1.905
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Turkey_N_published -0.884
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Russia_MA1_HG.SG 0.814
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.729
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Papuan.DG 0.413
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Israel_Natufian_published 0.636
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.405
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N ONG.SG -0.038
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.527
    gendstat: Iran_GanjDareh_N Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.016
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Turkey_N_published 1.164
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Russia_MA1_HG.SG 2.016
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -0.957
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Papuan.DG 1.974
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Israel_Natufian_published 1.658
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 2.022
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG ONG.SG 1.714
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 1.385
    gendstat: Georgia_Kotias.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 2.151
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Russia_MA1_HG.SG 1.400
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.082
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Papuan.DG 1.232
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Israel_Natufian_published 1.086
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 1.172
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published ONG.SG 0.802
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 0.363
    gendstat: Turkey_N_published Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.549
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Georgia_Satsurblia.SG -2.704
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Papuan.DG -0.502
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Israel_Natufian_published 0.070
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.482
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG ONG.SG -0.864
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -1.160
    gendstat: Russia_MA1_HG.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.375
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Papuan.DG 2.838
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Israel_Natufian_published 2.228
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 2.740
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG ONG.SG 2.662
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi 2.274
    gendstat: Georgia_Satsurblia.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 2.635
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Israel_Natufian_published 0.415
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG 0.012
    gendstat: Papuan.DG ONG.SG -0.502
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.876
    gendstat: Papuan.DG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.764
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG -0.408
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published ONG.SG -0.656
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.906
    gendstat: Israel_Natufian_published Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.240
    gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG ONG.SG -0.501
    gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.862
    gendstat: Russia_DevilsCave_N.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 0.752
    gendstat: ONG.SG Greece_Minoan_Lassithi -0.461
    gendstat: ONG.SG Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.012
    gendstat: Greece_Minoan_Lassithi Russia_MLBA_Sintashta_published 1.345

    ##end of qpAdm: 2.284 seconds cpu 0.827 Mbytes in use




    Mycenean + Armenian = 33.2% + 66.8% (std. error = 9.9% which is kind of bad).

    Mycenean + Turkey_Hittite_Period = fail.

    Mycenean + Iran_Hajji-Firuz_IronAge = 50% + 50% (std. error = 7.3% which is almost perfect).

    So you can see, no matter how you spin it, Pontic Greeks have very visible Mycenean genetics in addition to their local South Caucasus ancestry, which is exactly in line with their historical origin.

  15. #515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekas View Post
    Sour grapes, friend. Why would an Albanian poster be so sour about Pontic Greeks being related to ancient Greeks, what would be the repercussion for the West Balkans, anyways, Pontics are Ionics + Colchians by historical sources and they speak Ionic Greek, they have nothing to do with Albanians or the Balkans, they never mixed with them or fought against them or whatever, no one cares about Albania or Albanians in Pontic circles.

    And here are some other pass runs, with Caucasus references, for you since you think I cherry pick, if you have any ideas you want to test further, I can try and accommodate you, write it here or send a PM. I apologize in advance, mods, for taking space in this thread.




    Mycenean + Armenian = 33.2% + 66.8% (std. error = 9.9% which is kind of bad).

    Mycenean + Turkey_Hittite_Period = fail.

    Mycenean + Iran_Hajji-Firuz_IronAge = 50% + 50% (std. error = 7.3% which is almost perfect).

    So you can see, no matter how you spin it, Pontic Greeks have very visible Mycenean genetics in addition to their local South Caucasus ancestry, which is exactly in line with their historical origin.
    Nobody is buying your BS that Pontians are 33%-40% shifted towards Mycenaeans compared to Armenians. That would mean that they are closer to Dodecanese than to Armenians. And in every single PCA that I have seen Armenians plot West of Pontians.
    I have never seen anyone use this method before so probably you must've digged really hard to find good results for yourself.

    I have no sour. And just as you said I have no reason to have sour. Just move along I don't care. I don't believe you. I am not arguing anymore so don't derail this thread anymore.


  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    Nobody is buying your BS that Pontians are 33%-40% shifted towards Mycenaeans compared to Armenians. That would mean that they are closer to Dodecanese than to Armenians. And in every single PCA that I have seen Armenians plot West of Pontians.
    I have never seen anyone use this method before so probably you must've digged really hard to find good results for yourself.

    I have no sour. And just as you said I have no reason to have sour. Just move along I don't care. I don't believe you. I am not arguing anymore so don't derail this thread anymore.

    No need to get mad, bro. You can recreate all these runs down to the last decimal by using the open source qpAdm tools that are available freely to everyone, and use the Reich dataset.

    Instead, you'd rather refer to the closed source "calculator" by some random blogger, who apparently is more trustworthy than qpAdm and the Reich dataset, even though all the stuff people post with his calculator contradict what is posted in the papers by Reich Labs and others, very funny, you should become a comedian.

    And if no one uses qpAdm then maybe they should, there are tutorials floating around on the Net, then maybe there'll be less BS flying around, like the stuff you posted.

    Now carry on with your ignorance, my work is done here.


    PS. Your 2D "PCA" is very funny, I've seen more professional plots made by 11 years olds on EXCEL.

  17. #517
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    1 members found this post helpful.
    Quote Originally Posted by Salento View Post
    He’s from Pietralcina (Campania - Benevento), His convent is in San Giovanni Rotondo and he also founded a hospital there, … I’ve been there in the past on more than one occasion to visit sick relatives, … it’s one of the best hospitals around.

    … I’m doing fine, Thanks, … hope you’re OK too :)
    Good to hear. I am well thanks. Ok, he is from Campania but his Capuchin Community is based in San Giovanni Rotondo and the Hospital he founded.

  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekas View Post
    No need to get mad, bro. You can recreate all these runs down to the last decimal by using the open source qpAdm tools that are available freely to everyone, and use the Reich dataset.

    Instead, you'd rather refer to the closed source "calculator" by some random blogger, who apparently is more trustworthy than qpAdm and the Reich dataset, even though all the stuff people post with his calculator contradict what is posted in the papers by Reich Labs and others, very funny, you should become a comedian.

    And if no one uses qpAdm then maybe they should, there are tutorials floating around on the Net, then maybe there'll be less BS flying around, like the stuff you posted.

    Now carry on with your ignorance, my work is done here.


    PS. Your 2D "PCA" is very funny, I've seen more professional plots made by 11 years olds on EXCEL.
    As I said before I have tested K12b and G25 they pretty much on par with results of Academic studies in most cases and G25 in all cases. And those 2 calculator are used by 95% of the community. I seriously doubt that you didn't use G25 and K12b first before moving with qpAdm.

    I don't agree with this model below, but just showing that Pontians are not substantially shifted away from Armenians.
    Target: Greek_Pontus
    Distance: 6.0923% / 6.09228533
    96.7 Armenian_East
    3.3 NE_Iberia_Hel_(Empúries2)



    Target: Greek_Pontus
    Distance: 6.7888% / 6.78877332
    99.4 Armenian_West
    0.6 NE_Iberia_Hel_(Empúries2)

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    As I said before I have tested K12b and G25 they pretty much on par with results of Academic studies in most cases and G25 in all cases. And those 2 calculator are used by 95% of the community. I seriously doubt that you didn't use G25 and K12b first before moving with qpAdm.

    I don't agree with this model below, but just showing that Pontians are not substantially shifted away from Armenians.
    You are assuming Armenians are some kind of pure relics for the broader area and that they are relevant for Pontians native part , don't you know already that similar profiles can be created/end up plotting together through different processes ?like for example Aegean Islanders & Ashkenazis ? Going by your logic , Ashkenazis must be converted Aegeans or is it the opposite?
    Bad distance btw

  20. #520
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    As I said before I have tested K12b and G25 they pretty much on par with results of Academic studies in most cases and G25 in all cases. And those 2 calculator are used by 95% of the community. I seriously doubt that you didn't use G25 and K12b first before moving with qpAdm.

    Dude, all Southern Caucasians have overlapping genetic components just like you Balkanites do, and the reason being is that they all essentially derive ancestries from Kura-Araxes, Maikop and other groups in the area. I told you Pontics are Myceneans + local Colchis, do you know who ancient Colchians were? Do you know why Greeks went there? Are you familiar with the importance of the area in the ancient Greek world, the myth of Jason and the Argonauts and the ancient tragedy of Medea by Euripides?

    Do you have an ancient Colchis sample? No? Neither do I, that's why I use other proxies in the geographical area, like Georgians, Armenians, Maikop, Kura-araxes, etc.

    And they all pass showing 60-70% "native" South Caucasus and 30-40% Mycenean.

    And you bring me those laughable PCAs as an answer in order to tell me it's barely 10-15%, when I provide you with proof it's not. And, by the way, since you use 25 dimensions in your PCA, flip the dimensions and show us how the PCA looks like from other "angles", ie using other dimensions in the X and Y axis, not just the one that suits your little fairytale.

    You Albanian guys are something else, proclaimed experts on all things ancient Greek, too bad it's all BS.

  21. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by DorianTA View Post
    You are assuming Armenians are some kind of pure relics for the broader area and that they are relevant for Pontians native part , don't you know already that similar profiles can be created/end up plotting together through different processes ?like for example Aegean Islanders & Ashkenazis ? Going by your logic , Ashkenazis must be converted Aegeans or is it the opposite?
    Bad distance btw
    No I was not assuming that. Read again, I was showing that they are not 30% shifted away from Armenians to shows Bekas that his calculation is not accurate. Please read again.

  22. #522
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekas View Post
    Dude, all Southern Caucasians have overlapping genetic components just like you Balkanites do, and the reason being is that they all essentially derive ancestries from Kura-Araxes, Maikop and other groups in the area. I told you Pontics are Myceneans + local Colchis, do you know who ancient Colchians were? Do you know why Greeks went there? Are you familiar with the importance of the area in the ancient Greek world, the myth of Jason and the Argonauts and the ancient tragedy of Medea by Euripides?

    Do you have an ancient Colchis sample? No? Neither do I, that's why I use other proxies in the geographical area, like Georgians, Armenians, Maikop, Kura-araxes, etc.

    And they all pass showing 60-70% "native" South Caucasus and 30-40% Mycenean.

    And you bring me those laughable PCAs as an answer in order to tell me it's barely 10-15%, when I provide you with proof it's not. And, by the way, since you use 25 dimensions in your PCA, flip the dimensions and show us how the PCA looks like from other "angles", ie using other dimensions in the X and Y axis, not just the one that suits your little fairytale.

    You Albanian guys are something else, proclaimed experts on all things ancient Greek, too bad it's all BS.
    You are entitled to your wrong opinion that is fine. Let's not derail this thread any more.

  23. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    No I was not assuming that. Read again, I was showing that they are not 30% shifted away from Armenians to shows Bekas that his calculation is not accurate. Please read again.

    The run with the Armenian sample in the Reich dataset has a big standard-error, so it's not a very good result, I told you in my original post. The Armenians have too much Steppe to transform into Pontic Greeks all of the sudden. Where did all that Steppe admixture go? And where did all that Armenian R1b disappear, it's their dominant marker, Pontic Greeks barely have any R1b. It's a nonsensical argument.

    Also, I used your preferred method of analysis, and even your G25 corroborates my above results, so really, what are you on about, dude?

    Target: Greek_Trabzon
    Distance: 2.5329% / 0.02532875
    63.2 RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya
    36.8 GRC_Mycenaean

  24. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bekas View Post
    The run with the Armenian sample in the Reich dataset has a big standard-error, so it's not a very good result, I told you in my original post. The Armenians have too much Steppe to transform into Pontic Greeks all of the sudden. Where did all that Steppe admixture go? And where did all that Armenian R1b disappear, it's their dominant marker, Pontic Greeks barely have any R1b. It's a nonsensical argument.

    Also, I used your preferred method of analysis, and even your G25 corroborates my above results, so really, what are you on about, dude?
    Wait until we have Iron Ages natives of Pontus so you can use it then.

  25. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihype02 View Post
    You are entitled to your wrong opinion that is fine. Let's not derail this thread any more.
    When you attack an ethnic group like Pontic Greeks that have nothing to do with you or your ilk, you should be ready to defend your nonsense, or risk getting exposed like you just have.

    You're welcome.

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